totoro

Mom? What's a difficult child?
I am so sorry about your ankle and the whole episode.
Impulse control and the ability to retain information or learn new information in regards to how to handle oneself in this world... ahhh, punishment-consequences!
We just had a heated debate with therapist about this yesterday!
husband flat out said we will not punish K when she is violent, we will not call the police, she will go into her room to self soothe, we will not allow her violence- if he has to he WILL restrain her.
But she is getting almost to big for me to handle.
therapist does not want us to call 911 but she thinks K can learn right now.
We feel when K is unstable her impulse control and ability to reason goes out the window.
She has a hard time anyway but add these things in to the mix and WOW, violent, aggressive, ask her to stop doing something!!!
So we walk on eggshells until we can figure out all of this again and get a tiny bit of balance again.

I don't know if our kids will ever get it?
We have been working on impulse control as far as her hands for almost 4years now... not much has changed.

But we do let her know what her actions have caused and how they have affected her and us. We talk about how she and all of us could have handled it differently, does she get it? Who knows, maybe somewhere down in her brain somewhere...

I hope you feel better soon
 
EB, you're dealing with different issues which superficially can look the same. It is so difficult when we try to manage this, because we're dealing with individuals and unique situaiotns, when the System (whether it's the cops, hospital or whatever) is set up for what works for the majority, and how people "normally" function.

I know that what I would choose to do for my kids, is not how you wouldrespond for someone who already "gets it" but chooses to not apply self-control, in their determination to get their own way.

I absolutely agree with the comments by Marg and Klmno (but can't figure out how to get the computer to let me show both quotes....)

I realized pretty quickly that my current anger toward my own difficult child oozed out toward Wiped Out's difficult child, and that's not fair. Our difficult child's are different, and as far as consequences are concened, "one size" definitely doesn't fit all.

Something that may, however, be relevant to all, is the importance of knowing ahead the laws that will apply in the event you ever do have to call the police. In my state, the law really ties down the officer's choices. In cases of domestic assault, the officer is OBLIGATED to arrest the aggressor...or to transport to a mental health facility and THEN file charges. The choices are completely stripped away, and this took me by surprise the first time it happened. I understand the law is intended to take the pressure off an abused spouse, so that the abuser has no power in the moment to convince the victim not to press charges. Unfortunately, however, the same law applies in cases like mine.

I've been told more than once that I had absolutely no power to prevent an arrest, and it's very humbling. Sometimes, I didn't think this was appropriate, and it was only the quick response of the psychiatrist's answering service and, even then, his strong advocacy, that made it possible for the transport to a mental hospital instead. Looking back, I don't believe either hospital stay helped my difficult child a bit, but it was a step that had to be explored. Still, however, it's a frustrating and seemingly unfair situation to have my parental control so completely ripped away in these cases. It feels like a penalty for being a single mom, because I know that some situations when I had to call for help would have been diffused privately (or even prevented) if I'd had any physical help in the home. Of course, any family could be vulnerable to this law depending on who was home (or, maybe more importantly NOT home), at the time.

I understand too that there is a double edge. It's not fair to the officers to have to respond repeatedly to the same residence, only to have the mom say, "Thanks, guys. It's all under control now. I'll take it from here." They would have done it for me, though, had the law allowed them to. I have had absolutely the most supportive police department I could have hoped for, and all have been extremely compassionate and sympathetic to my position. There's just this little problem of the law....

I've had no reason to find out the law outside my own state, but I know my state is not the only place with laws like this in place. I wonder how it goes where some of the rest of you live.
 
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klmno

Active Member
You bring up a good point, EB, for anyone foreseeing a 911 call pertaining to their difficult child's behavior. I have called cops many times on my son- some resulted in a stern talk and warning, some an arrest, and some a tdo. Here, it is up to the officer and his/her sargent (who they will call in to) or the mental health crisis center, but they do put a lot of weight on what the parent says. The first time difficult child hit me I called cops because difficult child had "disappeared" and I was really calling them to find difficult child and bring him home. They did but they also arrested him for assaulting me even though I did NOT want to press charges (that's a story in itself).

Anyway, that's why I strongly suggest that if you have a difficult child that needs more than just a legal, behavioral intervention, that when the parent calls 911, they immediately tell them that you have a MI child who is unstable and needs an evaluation for a tdo. Plus, if the difficult child has become violent, that means the difference between them coming in the home with 9mm's or tasers, here at least. But in many jurisdictions, cops are now being trained to deal with calls for MI incidences differently than criminal ones, so it is important to keep those things in mind when contemplating a future 911 call. The initial words said by the parent can make all the difference in the world, even if it is the cops choice whether or not to arrest the difficult child.

Also, when I called cops on difficult child pulling a knife out on me, the cops looked all around the house, asked questions, etc, to try to make sure that my son was not being abused, neglected, or somehow was warranted in doing that. Not that anyone here would abuse their child, but be prepared for them to check out things to make sure the child was not mistreated if you call to report your difficult child becoming violent or aggressive toward a parent. And if it ends up in court, the typical defense for the child is that they were driven to it, unfortunately. That sounds absurd, I know, but look at most domestic violence cases- the defense is what the victim did to bring it on.
 
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flutterby

Fly away!
Sharon -

First, please know that I am not being critical.

I have been worried about your safety since I joined this board in 2006. While difficult child has made some improvements, and is a really good kid at heart, the anger takes over and there is no rational thought. I understand that more now than before because of difficult child 2.

But, despite the improvements he has made, he is becoming more violent. There may be stretches where he isn't, but when he's violent, he's really hurting you. It's quite scary.

When I read this, I saw all of the red flags you see with people who live in an abusive relationship. I know it's different; he is a child with psychiatric issues, not an adult expected to have more self control. But, the behavior in the house among those living with difficult child are the same you would see in an abusive relationship/household.

Hon, I worry about you. A lot. He is only going to get bigger and stronger. And as much as he may regret it later, have remorse, in the moment I don't think he is able to stop it. All rational thought goes out the window when he is in that frame of mine.

I certainly don't believe he belongs in the juvenile court system and I would worry that calling 911 would lead to that - although I'm not saying you shouldn't call 911 for transport to a hospital for a psychiatric evaluation. It really depends on the area you are in and how much training the police have had. However, as he gets older they (the police) care less and less about those issues and may very well put him in juvie.

I would push - hard - for Residential Treatment Center (RTC) or at least partial hospitalization. medications need to be tweaked and he needs intensive services to learn how to control these impulses and his anger. I just don't think that weekly therapy is enough to accomplish those goals.

easy child also deserves to feel safe in her home, as do you and husband.

Many ((((hugs)))) to you, my friend. I am sending very good thoughts for a calm difficult child for your upcoming events.
 

Marguerite

Active Member
EB, that is a very important point and definitely part of the necessary advance planning. Because these laws will vary from state to state, let alone country to country, I tend to avoid discussing that side of the issue. We tend to not call the cops for this sort of thing in Australia. It's just not something we think of, although I daresay we could use the police for support in these situations.

Thanks for your feedback, it all helps. It is a very important part of the whole preventive approach.

Marg
 

KTMom91

Well-Known Member
I'm glad your injuries weren't more serious. I'm concerned about you as well. the other ladies have made many valid points...please consider them, and please be careful. Many hugs.
 

Wiped Out

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Linda-You are right, things can't continue at this level. I'm so very tired tonight and feeling more of the emotional part of Tuesday night now than I think I did even then. Does that make sense?

Fran-Thank you, you have very good insight. I think part of me is scared that maybe he won't be able to live a more mainstreamed life. I know it's a strong possibility and it is a big concern-honestly scares the bejeebers out of me. psychiatrist is not using hospital as a punishment-just told husband we need him and everyone else to be safe.

K-I do get the part where either of us can take the time out; I was just thinking how cool it could be if difficult child could learn to decide on one on his own at some point.

Toto-I know what you mean about wondering if they will ever get it-about the impulse control-we've been dealing with it for years with-o tons of improvement although we have seen some.

EB-I'm not sure how it is here but think they lean heavily towards what the parents recommend but no guarantees.

K-We do have a crisis plan to hand the police if need be about difficult child being MI and needing to go to psychiatric hospital if necessary.

Heather-Thank you and I don't feel you are being critical. It may that he ends up needing an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) environment. I've felt this way before; psychiatrist, therapist, and others haven't seen the need. I think it is because of those long stretches in between. Guessing it's getting to the point where I need to at least get more of a take on it from husband. Of course, it doesn't help that he calls us crying at respite (even when he's having fun) or any other time he isn't around us.

Mary-Thank you for the hugs and good thoughts.

Thank you to everyone; please know I appreciate all of your insight and good thoughts and prayers.
 
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