Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New profile posts
Latest activity
Internet Search
Members
Current visitors
New profile posts
Search profile posts
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
Parent Support Forums
General Parenting
I could really use
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 320181" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>EB, you're dealing with different issues which superficially can look the same. It is so difficult when we try to manage this, because we're dealing with individuals and unique situaiotns, when the System (whether it's the cops, hospital or whatever) is set up for what works for the majority, and how people "normally" function.</p><p></p><p>I know that what I would choose to do for my kids, is not how you wouldrespond for someone who already "gets it" but chooses to not apply self-control, in their determination to get their own way. Some peoplewho don't know us, probably think I'm an over-indulgent parent whose son is merely a spoilt brat allowed to run out of control. I've even had friends say this to us. I usually offer to let them babysit. Sometimes they hand back a child who behaved perfectly for them (rats! It backfired!) but sometimes over time especially, realisation dawns.</p><p></p><p>Sometimes you just have to work it out for yourself.</p><p></p><p>What I do, is I think - what do I want Occupational Therapist (OT) achieve in the short teerm? The medium term? The long term? And not just for the child, but for the family.</p><p></p><p>Personal safety is paramount. My safety, the child's safety. But sometimes I have to take a risk and put personal safety to one side. </p><p></p><p>Example - we like to go to the beach for a swim. Now, we're Aussies. We live near the beach. We've grown up being able to go to the beach (although when I was achild, we lived a couple of hours' drive form the beach). I grew up with occasional beach visits that left me badly sunburned each time. At that, I was better off than the rest of my family. And y'know what? We'd go to the beach all day next day, too. Crazy.</p><p>People on this site (some of them) think we're crazy (or brave, or foolhardy) to go to the beach as much as we do, not knowing what else is swimming out there. Our village beach is away from the centre of Sydney, there are no nets. We know there are sharks. There are blue-ringed octopuses. But I've never seen a shark close up at the beach, only seen a blue-ringed octopus in the wild a few times because I don't hang around the rock pools where the octupuses are generally found (they prefer the deeper pools closer to the surf). And even when I have seen dangerous denizens, exposure to them and knowledge helps us stay perfectly safe. Knowing how sharks behave, keeps us safe (relatively) as swimmers. The people more likely to be attacked are the board riders especially in wet suits (they look like seals) who are splashing around away from other people (they seem to be behaving like animals in death throes, sick and easy ppickings for sharks).</p><p></p><p>What I'm saying - we need to understand each situation and be ready to adapt to it. I might come to visit in the US and want to go for a walk in the woods, or a swim in a lake, and not know the dangers. I would need one of you alongsidde me to help me learn how to be safe (by the way, I'll do the same for any of you if you ever visit us here).</p><p></p><p>So what are our goals for our kids?</p><p></p><p>We want them to learn what is right and what is wrong.</p><p></p><p>We want them to learn to consider other people's needs as well as their own.</p><p></p><p>We want them to learn how to take care of themselves and how to stay safe, as well as keep other people safe.</p><p></p><p>One day we want them to live a happy life, an independent life, a productive tax-paying life.</p><p></p><p>Sometimes we need to modify our goals from moment to moment. We also have to constantly consider - how best do we achieve these goals?</p><p></p><p>With a kid who is struggling with determining the boundaries between reality and whatever their mind is cooking up, you need to keep bringing them back to "This is real. These are the consequences of what happened." So here perhaps more so, depending on the child's ability to both understand and to change, punishment MAY be warranted. Consequences, certainly. But there is a difference between punishment and consequences.</p><p></p><p>With a kid who already knows right form wrong but has impulse control issues - punishment achieves zilch. Consequences achive a great deal, especially ntural consequences.</p><p></p><p>Again, life is much more likely to throw consequences at us, than punishment. If you steal from your friends, soon your friends will avoid you and you will be lonely. If you steal form a stranger or acquaintance, they are more likely to call the police. Again, consequences. IN some case there is overlap with punishemtn, but generally where punishemnt is imposed, especially if the child feels justified (and a childwho was enraged often does feel justified even after the event) then punishment only seems like revenge. But ah, consequences! THAT is the natural flow-on.</p><p></p><p>People need to be kept safe. That includes parents and we often forget that. IN this situation, difficult child's consequences are - he sees you in pain and injured. He knows he caused it.</p><p>I would be milking this (appropriately) and asking difficult child to help with tasks you are finding difficult with a sore ankle. Make them tasks that help everybody, such as helping to cook dinner.</p><p></p><p>I do not think grounding is necessary, or any punishment not connected with what happened. Certainly a talking to about it (not a yelling to, a talking to) which sounds like you have done, Sharon. You should do a post-mortem on what happened and TOGETHER find a plan to help avoid this sort of problem in the future. THIS is the aim - long-term prevention and a lesson being learned.</p><p></p><p>A TV show I was watching the other night (RSPCA, our animal welfare organisation) was showing a story about a labrador that slipped his leash while out with his elderly mistress, and got ont othe train tracks. The dog was hit by a train, knocked unconscious and badly bruised. Amazingly, nothing broken, no internal bleeding. But a very sore and sorry dog needing vet treatment and observation for a couple of days.</p><p>Did the owner punish the dog? Of course not. Did the ownerNEED to punish the dog? Again, no.</p><p>According to the owner, that dog is now nervous of trains and makes absolutely no attempt to slip his leash, ever.</p><p>How did the dog learn? By natural consequences. Luckily he is alive to be able to put that knowledge into practice.</p><p>It would have been better for the og to learn without being injured, but sometimes the unpredictable happens. That's why, where possible, we do our best to avoid dangerous situaitons and try to head them off before they happen. But especially with a difficult child (dog, or kid) these problems occur.</p><p></p><p>We have some resources we can call on - police, hospital. Hopefully, others in our family environment. We use what we have, wisely. We make judgement calls. Often we don't get it right at the time.</p><p></p><p>But if we can go over the events afterwards and use them as a learning experience, any pain that has resulted won't be a waste.</p><p></p><p>Sharon, in a lot of ways your son's main problems are impulse control and poor attention. I don't think he's a bad kid, or a manipulative kid. But it takes a lot for him to lern something. I think he has learned something here. But he does need to know what could have happened and what options there were to respond to these various options (including police and hospital). He needs to know his own strategies for coping in the future. Both of you need to put something in place now, either a signal or an action, as a response to future problems. If he's getting upset, he needs to know to leave a situation. You need to learn the signs and allow him to do this (or help him remember). He also needs to identify what it was in him that made him so non-compliant, and find a way to work tis out with you NOW, while he is calm. Simply talking about this, is another important consequence. Again, not a punishment, merely a responsible response.</p><p></p><p>EB, I don't know your child and chances are your responses to your situations are correct. For you, and for her. She sounds like she's got a lot of issues, plus she's older. She may have a lot more capability of fore-thought and consideraiotn of an issue. Or she may not - I really don't know. But all you can do, especially at her age now (and as a married lady) is to tell yourself, "I have given her all the values I could, while she was able and willing to take them on board. All I can do now is be available for her to come to for advice, when she chooses to."</p><p>In some ways you are now at the hardest stage of parenthood. As a mother who has had three kids get married in the last 12 months, including two who really do not have the maturity yet to be independent, all I can do is say, "I feel for you. But you have done the best you coud and now have to sit and wait, catchers mitt at the ready."</p><p></p><p>I'll join you.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 320181, member: 1991"] EB, you're dealing with different issues which superficially can look the same. It is so difficult when we try to manage this, because we're dealing with individuals and unique situaiotns, when the System (whether it's the cops, hospital or whatever) is set up for what works for the majority, and how people "normally" function. I know that what I would choose to do for my kids, is not how you wouldrespond for someone who already "gets it" but chooses to not apply self-control, in their determination to get their own way. Some peoplewho don't know us, probably think I'm an over-indulgent parent whose son is merely a spoilt brat allowed to run out of control. I've even had friends say this to us. I usually offer to let them babysit. Sometimes they hand back a child who behaved perfectly for them (rats! It backfired!) but sometimes over time especially, realisation dawns. Sometimes you just have to work it out for yourself. What I do, is I think - what do I want Occupational Therapist (OT) achieve in the short teerm? The medium term? The long term? And not just for the child, but for the family. Personal safety is paramount. My safety, the child's safety. But sometimes I have to take a risk and put personal safety to one side. Example - we like to go to the beach for a swim. Now, we're Aussies. We live near the beach. We've grown up being able to go to the beach (although when I was achild, we lived a couple of hours' drive form the beach). I grew up with occasional beach visits that left me badly sunburned each time. At that, I was better off than the rest of my family. And y'know what? We'd go to the beach all day next day, too. Crazy. People on this site (some of them) think we're crazy (or brave, or foolhardy) to go to the beach as much as we do, not knowing what else is swimming out there. Our village beach is away from the centre of Sydney, there are no nets. We know there are sharks. There are blue-ringed octopuses. But I've never seen a shark close up at the beach, only seen a blue-ringed octopus in the wild a few times because I don't hang around the rock pools where the octupuses are generally found (they prefer the deeper pools closer to the surf). And even when I have seen dangerous denizens, exposure to them and knowledge helps us stay perfectly safe. Knowing how sharks behave, keeps us safe (relatively) as swimmers. The people more likely to be attacked are the board riders especially in wet suits (they look like seals) who are splashing around away from other people (they seem to be behaving like animals in death throes, sick and easy ppickings for sharks). What I'm saying - we need to understand each situation and be ready to adapt to it. I might come to visit in the US and want to go for a walk in the woods, or a swim in a lake, and not know the dangers. I would need one of you alongsidde me to help me learn how to be safe (by the way, I'll do the same for any of you if you ever visit us here). So what are our goals for our kids? We want them to learn what is right and what is wrong. We want them to learn to consider other people's needs as well as their own. We want them to learn how to take care of themselves and how to stay safe, as well as keep other people safe. One day we want them to live a happy life, an independent life, a productive tax-paying life. Sometimes we need to modify our goals from moment to moment. We also have to constantly consider - how best do we achieve these goals? With a kid who is struggling with determining the boundaries between reality and whatever their mind is cooking up, you need to keep bringing them back to "This is real. These are the consequences of what happened." So here perhaps more so, depending on the child's ability to both understand and to change, punishment MAY be warranted. Consequences, certainly. But there is a difference between punishment and consequences. With a kid who already knows right form wrong but has impulse control issues - punishment achieves zilch. Consequences achive a great deal, especially ntural consequences. Again, life is much more likely to throw consequences at us, than punishment. If you steal from your friends, soon your friends will avoid you and you will be lonely. If you steal form a stranger or acquaintance, they are more likely to call the police. Again, consequences. IN some case there is overlap with punishemtn, but generally where punishemnt is imposed, especially if the child feels justified (and a childwho was enraged often does feel justified even after the event) then punishment only seems like revenge. But ah, consequences! THAT is the natural flow-on. People need to be kept safe. That includes parents and we often forget that. IN this situation, difficult child's consequences are - he sees you in pain and injured. He knows he caused it. I would be milking this (appropriately) and asking difficult child to help with tasks you are finding difficult with a sore ankle. Make them tasks that help everybody, such as helping to cook dinner. I do not think grounding is necessary, or any punishment not connected with what happened. Certainly a talking to about it (not a yelling to, a talking to) which sounds like you have done, Sharon. You should do a post-mortem on what happened and TOGETHER find a plan to help avoid this sort of problem in the future. THIS is the aim - long-term prevention and a lesson being learned. A TV show I was watching the other night (RSPCA, our animal welfare organisation) was showing a story about a labrador that slipped his leash while out with his elderly mistress, and got ont othe train tracks. The dog was hit by a train, knocked unconscious and badly bruised. Amazingly, nothing broken, no internal bleeding. But a very sore and sorry dog needing vet treatment and observation for a couple of days. Did the owner punish the dog? Of course not. Did the ownerNEED to punish the dog? Again, no. According to the owner, that dog is now nervous of trains and makes absolutely no attempt to slip his leash, ever. How did the dog learn? By natural consequences. Luckily he is alive to be able to put that knowledge into practice. It would have been better for the og to learn without being injured, but sometimes the unpredictable happens. That's why, where possible, we do our best to avoid dangerous situaitons and try to head them off before they happen. But especially with a difficult child (dog, or kid) these problems occur. We have some resources we can call on - police, hospital. Hopefully, others in our family environment. We use what we have, wisely. We make judgement calls. Often we don't get it right at the time. But if we can go over the events afterwards and use them as a learning experience, any pain that has resulted won't be a waste. Sharon, in a lot of ways your son's main problems are impulse control and poor attention. I don't think he's a bad kid, or a manipulative kid. But it takes a lot for him to lern something. I think he has learned something here. But he does need to know what could have happened and what options there were to respond to these various options (including police and hospital). He needs to know his own strategies for coping in the future. Both of you need to put something in place now, either a signal or an action, as a response to future problems. If he's getting upset, he needs to know to leave a situation. You need to learn the signs and allow him to do this (or help him remember). He also needs to identify what it was in him that made him so non-compliant, and find a way to work tis out with you NOW, while he is calm. Simply talking about this, is another important consequence. Again, not a punishment, merely a responsible response. EB, I don't know your child and chances are your responses to your situations are correct. For you, and for her. She sounds like she's got a lot of issues, plus she's older. She may have a lot more capability of fore-thought and consideraiotn of an issue. Or she may not - I really don't know. But all you can do, especially at her age now (and as a married lady) is to tell yourself, "I have given her all the values I could, while she was able and willing to take them on board. All I can do now is be available for her to come to for advice, when she chooses to." In some ways you are now at the hardest stage of parenthood. As a mother who has had three kids get married in the last 12 months, including two who really do not have the maturity yet to be independent, all I can do is say, "I feel for you. But you have done the best you coud and now have to sit and wait, catchers mitt at the ready." I'll join you. Marg [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Parent Support Forums
General Parenting
I could really use
Top