I didn't think 35 could shock me anymore, but what horrible parenting!!

[BusynMember]

I just got off the phone with my 35 year old son and my head is reeling. I know he is unlikeable and self-centered and probably a bit narcicistic and I know he swears at me when he's angry at something I say and that he depends on me emotionally more than somebody should who has reached middle age. But I didn't think he was a bad parent...call me blissfully ignorant. He lives two states away and I want to pretend he's doing a good job with his little boy, whom he has half the time and whom he loves so much that I think he's suffocating him and making poor choices. If you're still with me, here's the story. No, it's not as bad as though he were a drug addict and I apologize for that...it may seem minor to some of you parents. But it's just more verification that my son thinks of nobody but himself first, even when it comes to Grandson.

Last night he called me in tears. He told me that his X had called him, upset because J. (grandson) was clinging to her and told her that Daddy says some things that upset him. Understand, J. is four years old, but he is extremely verbal, highly intelligent, and very able to express himself and he has a good memory. Apparently, sometimes J. makes a mistake when he's with my son and calls him "Mommy." Well, when he does this, my son has been saying to him, "DON'T CALL ME THAT! IF YOU LIKE MOMMY SO MUCH I'LL TAKE YOU BACK TO MOMMY. DO YOU WANT ME TO DRIVE YOU NOW?" He also won't let J. tell him anything he does when he's with his mother and her boyfriend "because it will hurt me and make me cry." So J. is afraid to bring up his mother or her boyfriend. He'll say things like, "I want to tell you something, but it's a secret" a nd he shuts up. If he makes the mistake of saying anything, my son tells him he doesn't want to hear it because it will make him sad (who is the child here?) I guess J. asked my son why he couldn't take him to a carnival? Son is good about making sure all his time is focused on J., but he rarely leaves the house with him, claiming he has no money. Well, he told J., "I can't. Mommy takes all Daddy's money." At the same time when he says things like this he tells J. "Don't tell any of this to Mommy. It's a secret." I know he has also made fun of his ex wife and her boyfriend's weight in front of J. And when my son is talking to me and gets angry at me, he will use the eff-bomb to me in front of J. And I heard him once direct the eff-bomb towards J. It shocked me. I never used that around my kids. I know he doesn't hit his son. Neither he or his ex ever spanked J., but words can be just as bad or worse.

My son actually felt that J. betrayed him by telling his "secrets" to X. I got all over him and told him that you don't tell a child not to tell his parent anything. It took a while to convince him that a four year old did not "betray" him, but that he was just upset by some things he was being told by him. Jeeeeeeeeeeeeez!!!!

This morning, my son called me again before going to work. Yes, since the divorce he has been calling me up to five times a day and sometimes I answer and sometimes I'm not in the mood. This morning I answered and he told me he feels like he just lost J. I told him he is catastrophising a nd to just apologize and let him talk about what he wants to talk about from now on. He said, "But it makes me feel like crying."

Excuse me, but my son is 35 years old and J. is 4. Son said, "I t hought we had a special bond and now I feel like it's broken."

He really believed that he and J. were bonded and that J. didn't like his mother as much as him. I told him he had to put the child first, not himself and too bad if he didn't want to hear about what J. did while with his mother. Then son had to go and I was relieved and I'm not going to talk to him for the rest of the day. He is exhausting, more tiring than all my other kids put together. Why does he call me 24/7? "You're all I have." He's right. He has no friends. None. He rarely leaves his house, even with J. No wonder J. wants to go places when he's with my son. And my son makes a lot of money. Not a fortune, but around 80K (which is a lot in the area he lives in) and he got a 20K bonus last Christmas. I know he pays child support, but he has NO money? Maybe he doesn't. I don't know. I don't care. I just needed to share my frustration with this Man-Child.

And he wonders why he can keep any girlfriends!! Gee, I wonder...I'm sure, although he hasn't confided in me, that he also yells at these girls when he's mad at them too. Or hangs up.

He's in for a lonely life if he doesn't change and I can't change him.

 

[SuZir]

Wow, that is immature. And unfortunately not at all uncommon. I just read an article in my morning paper there they interviewed one very well known professor of child psychology and the topic was divorce. The worst typical and common errors in divorce situations she listed were about the same you just described.

Anyway to encourage your son to take parenting classes or seek out some kind of divorce counselling? That would do world of good for him and your grandson.

 

[BusynMember]

Son says he can't afford counseling and that he makes too much to get reduced fees. So that's out. And, yes, I think he is making about the worse choices you can with an insecure little boy who has to divide his time between two homes.

 

[Hound dog]

Horribly immature. Both in his dependence with you and treatment of J. He seems to be trying to develop an emotional dependence on J too, sort of like the one he has with you.......it seems. (the whole he betrayed me part) That is quite unhealthy for both of them.

However many divorced or separated parents talk about the ex that way around the children or to the children. What they don't realize is that instead of damaging the relationship between the ex and the child.........it damages the relationship between the parent doing it and the child. If both parents are doing it......then the child is just plain in a mess. My mom did this most of my life, until the day I really ripped her a new one about it. I can remember being real little and she had her 2nd husband (the man I call dad) separated and they both did it. No peace no matter which one you were with. I think I was maybe 7-8 when I told them both I wasn't spying or talking about the other one to them. They needed to know something, they could find out themselves. My dad stopped. It made him realize what he was doing. Mom, however, didn't ever quit.

Any luck getting son into see a therapist?

 

[AnnieO]

I agree with you that this is horrible parenting.

MWM, you gave me a swift kick in the rear when I needed it. I wish I could return the favor only to kick your son!!!

This is called Parental Alienation, and not only does it damage the child's relationship with the parent doing it AND the parent not doing it (trust me on this), it damages the child. FOR LIFE. Onyxx is still convinced that she is unlovable - because SHE decided that bio should leave husband because husband didn't love HER. (Really?!) Then later, when she refused to name husband as her molester, bio cut her off - pretty much saying she was only worthy if she accused husband. Jett still does not trust Onyxx, or husband... He tells me far more than husband. because bio didn't know what to say about me that would prove I was horrible.

We have reams of counseling documentation where the kids told the counselors wild stories that bore absolutely no resemblance to reality. The kids' stories matched, and matched bio's story. But... husband and I, teachers, coaches... We all matched, because that WAS reality.

She had the kids completely convinced that husband beat her. I've been with him a long, long time and seen him lose his temper and throw a tantrum like a child. Not ONCE - never - has he come even close to hurting a living being. He's slammed doors... Kicked one, once... Thrown stuff into the back yard... The closest he ever came to hitting anyone in anger? Onyxx got taken down when she physically attacked me. He's restrained her when she was attacking him. Yeah... Sure. When I asked Jett how he would feel about me and Daddy getting married (he was 6), he started screaming and crying, in Kroger, that we couldn't get married because we would fight and hurt each other if we did.

If your son is treating a child as a confidante... UGH. They're not friends. He's a PARENT.

...I'm rather rabid on this subject... Sorry. But you're right. for you, and for J.

 

[welcometowitsend]

That is awful. I am so sorry your son is behaving so immaturely and making his 4 year old be the responsible, mature one in their relationship. That is too much responsibility and knowledge for a 4 year old to have to carry.

I sure hope that your son wakes up and realizes what he is doing to this innocent child.

 

[BusynMember]

My poor grandson. I answered the phone when my son called again because he called from work and I didn't recognize the number. Fact is, out of the two of J's parents, my son is actually a better parent, poor little kid. I'm guessing that J. didn't cry or cuddle up to mom to complain about my son. Although my son should NOT have said those things to J., he probably just mentioned them to his mother and she went ballistic because s he has a huge temper and nobody likes her either, sadly. So here is the other side of what grandson has to put up with.

X has been such a pain in the tail to J's daycare workers that they hate her. They call my son "the sane one" (lol) and have said many times that if it comes to a custody battle, they will gladly testify for HIM. They often call my son to try to get him to calm her down or talk to her, but he can't. She has no problem swearing, screaming, going off on anyone loudly, in public, anywhere for any reason. My son actually does have the restraint abilities if I can make him see that something is inappropriate. But his X doesn't think there is anything wrong with what she does and she has done some doozies.

Today my son got another call from the daycare worker. Two sisters run a daycare together. I met them and they are really nice people who run a clean, productive daycare for about six kids. Well, today they have to close down at 5:30pm, which is sooner than X can pick up J. She could have called my son to get him and he'd have driven J. to her house after she got home, but she didn't do it that way. She can't handle anything that does not go her way. Apparently, the daycare worker called him to tell him to get J. at 5:30 because X had left with no resolution to the problem. But before she left, she went on a loud, four letter word, abusive rant that would not quit and poor J. just put his head in his arms in shame as she yelled and carried on. She actually had to be escorted out the door and the talk continued outside where she was still yelling, four letter wording and carrying on in front of anyone who passed by. She is the one who ran off with another man, so she is also a piece of work. In fact, she is worse than my son.

My son called J. at daycare and asked if he had been crying about things he had been saying to his mother and he said, "No, I wasn't crying. Hey, only six days until I get to see you!" So, whether he was crying or not crying, grandson is still cool with his dad. Actually, my son is pretty good with him...except when he isn't and says idiotic things that I hope he now understands are baaaaaaaaaaad to say. He has no common sense.

At any rate, this little boy, my grandson, is stuck in Missouri, without any saner relatives than his mother and father and his mother's boyfriend. I feel so badly for the little guy. The daycare worker said he was shaking and saying, "Mommy, stop! Please stop!" He's a nice little boy with a lot of potential. Ugh. I hope they both don't destroy him.

 

[AnnieO]

OMG. I so wish I could give your son a swift kick... If he is the better parent then he really needs to shape up ASAP... Crikeys...

 

[BusynMember]

He is the better parent. She ran off with a man while they were married and introduced J. to this new honey buns even before J. knew she was moving out. She drags him all over the place keeping him up late at night and I'm sure he's visited some inappropriate people doing inappropriate things, but can't prove it.
I wish I lived closer. Her family is also nuttier than fruitcakes so when he visits them it's not much better. And son makes 1,000 excuses why he can't bring J. to Chicago so our family never sees him. Compared to her family, we are normal...lol.
I want to swift kick my son all the time.

 

[HaoZi]

Okay, so he can't afford therapy? Would he be willing to see if child services would do free in-home therapy/services with him or him and J? The ones here did it for us. It was only for 6 months, but it helped, and after so long I could get it again if I thought I needed it/it would help.

 

[susiestar]

I think if you use the same tactic that worked with my gfgbro you may see some big changes in what your son says to his son about his mother. My bro was AWFUL about what he said about his then wife's ex and she was worse. The things they said were HORRIBLE. Then when bro and hsi then wife were having problems, they said awful things about each other around their chiild. She wasn't a year old when it started. My mom at least mostly stopped my brother from continuing. First she told him it was no okay and no son of hers would say those things about the mother of his child in front of his child.

Then she explained WHY. The why is what got through.

J is half of his mom and half of his dad. When dad says bad things about J's mom, the ONLY message J really gets is that the part of him that is his mom is bad, awful, horrible, rotten, mean, etc.... J has no other way to understand this info, regardless of hwo many times J is told that he isn't those things. J is half his daddy and half his mommy, so if his mommy is terrible, then half of J is terrible. Same if Daddy is terrible.

This has been the ONE argument that keeps gfgbro in line when it comes to talking about his crazy ex. Heck, the witch got married and tried to convince niece that since she had a new daddy her old daddy wouldn't see her anymore. Niece is not a dummy and asked her mom where she was going toget rent and utility money from cause if her daddy wasn't her daddy then her grandparents didn't have to help them out anymore, and the only reason they kept giving her money was so that her house wtih her mom would be safe for her.

Then she called her daddy in tears to get reassurance that regardless of how many men were in hermom's life, he would always be her daddy.

I hope that maybe understanding this will help your son see how much damage is being done when he says this koi to his dad.

Your son is a total IDIOT for not allowing J to talk about time with mommy and her new man. How else will he find out all the unsafe, insane, possibly abusive things that are going on there? Time to grow the heck up and stop being such a baby. His feelings are ZERO PERCENT his chld's responsibility. His child's safety are 110% his repsonsibility. if his child cannot talka bout what happens when he isn't with daddy, then how is daddy to know if mom or stepdad are hurting him in any way?

No child should EVER betoldnottotell a parent things. Pedophiles LOVE to find kids who keep secrets like this. They are PERFECT PREY just waiting to be perped upon. So tell your son that I wonder if his pwecious wittle feewings are more important than his son's safety? IF they are then he needs to get out of the parent business completely. I cannot count how many times something has hurt my feelings with my kids and I kept it to myself because it wasn't my child's problem and because I never wanted them to feel they couldn't share something with me,not ever. It would be different if J were deliberately trying to hurt him, but J isn't. So your son's hurt feelings are zero percent J's business.

He needs to ask the daycare to start documenting both his and his ex's behavior when they drop off, pick up, or have any other interaction with the daycare. NOT just his ex's crazy behavior, but also his sane behavior. This type of thing is very helpful to a custody decision.

As for money, tell your son his savings are not more important that the therapy he and his child need, and his health insurance has to have coverage for it, and any prayer of custody will be greatly increased if he has a therapist. Then tell him that maybe if he cut back on other things, like cable, drinking, eating out, etc... it would be easy to pay for therapy. He won't like your advice, but it is valid and if he is going to complain to you then he can listen to your opinion or he can find some wall to talk to if he doesn't want logical, reasonable feedback.

 

[DammitJanet]

I can tell you first hand what damaging talk does to a small child. Keyana came back to us a pure mess. She said she cried for us every day but she had to hide it because her mommy would spank her if she caught her. She was told we didnt love her anymore because her daddy got a new baby. She was told what to say to us when we called and was only allowed to talk to us very rarely. Now she clings to us constantly and never wants to leave our house. She wants to live with us now. You have no idea how much I wish I could make that happen. Im waiting for her to hit 12 when she can tell a judge what she wants. At that point probably none of us will want a teen girl...lol. Thing is, though, we have never said a bad word about her mom, her step father or her other grandmother but we know they have said things about us because Keyana is a human tape recorder and she just blurts out everything she hears. We know she is going to tell whatever we say so we just dont say it around her.

 

[JJJ]

Im waiting for her to hit 12 when she can tell a judge what she wants. At that point probably none of us will want a teen girl...lol.

Janet, did Cory actually file in court?? There needs to be a court case for there to be a judge.

One thing I found interesting. In NC, visitation for grandparents can be written into the court-ordered custody agreement.
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_50/GS_50-13.2.html