I just got one of those dreaded messages from my son

[Tanya M]

My son responded to my message. It was short, he said he is really growing up, he's homeless and does not want to do this for the rest of his life and that he's just in a very dark place right now.
I responded that everyone goes through dark difficult times in their life but you have to stay focused and keep moving forward. I ended it telling him that I and his dad love him.
I do so hope that at 34 years of age he's finally, really, "growing up"
Only time will tell and until said time, I will continue to live my life for myself.
I will admit, that I wonder what it would be like if my son did get his life together, what might our relationship look like.

 

[Copabanana]

he said he is really growing up, he's homeless and does not want to do this for the rest of his life

Tanya. There is a whole lot of hope.

My son is 27. He is only now beginning to show remorse, compassion, and self-control. He keeps improving in attitude and willingness to go along with the program.

I think it is partly, as with your son, the hatred of being homeless, the constant instability of having to pack it up from one couch to another. Part of it I believe is finally maturing. I have said it and others too: For many men, maturity starts at 27.

I think he also missed being with people who love him, feel responsibility for him. I need him. He must have remembered that. He was the center of my life. He knows what it feels like to be loved with heart and soul. I think that was the problem. He could not grow up with a mother who loved him like that. I think he needed to not be my central relationship. At the same time, he was jealous of M. I think the years apart he has come to grips with his position in my life, and I have too. It is healthier and more adult. I have changed too.

There seems to be at least a little bit of reciprocity now. At least the beginnings of it. My son cried last night and tonight because of how he hurt me. Now, I wish he had not done so, but remorse and compassion get second prize.

I do not think it is possible or wise to picture a possible relationship--we just cannot know. In our case it is more like my son of 10 years back has reappeared in adult form. I will take it.

 

[Tanya M]

I do not think it is possible or wise to picture a possible relationship--we just cannot know.

Yes, Copa, there is no way we can possibly know. When I do allow myself to think about it, it's just so foreign.
More than having a close relationship with my son, I just want him to be happy, to be content, to be settled, to stop running from himself and everyone who has ever cared about him.
Again, only time will tell.......................

 

[rebelson]

Copa
Do you think that your son would be at this place of improvement, maturation, if you had not detached and forced him out on his own, 4 or more years ago?

 

[Copabanana]

Do you think that your son would be at this place of improvement, maturation, if you had not detached and forced him out on his own, 4 or more years ago?

Never.

But I did not detach 4 years ago. I threw him out. I did not know about detachment until a year ago when I came to this site.

My son did not display any of the personality that he had as a child or adolescent. He was oppositional. Defiant. Insolent. A drama-queen. Lazy. Etc.

Even I could see I was not helping him by letting him stay here.

So four years ago, I had had enough. Influenced by my SO, M, I hoped that my son would become self-sufficient if he had to be.

Not so. He got people to help him. He applied for SSI. Not the outcome I had hoped for.

But throwing him out helped me. Out of sight, out of mind. I missed him but I could live without constant conflict and pain.

For him, it went from bad to worse. Multiple hospitalizations. Homelessness in 4 counties. Even then I could not have him home. I could not justify being destroyed for his sake. How could this help one adult, to destroy another?

For me, it was not about his functioning only. It was about his morality. I knew that the son I had raised should be, could be a compassionate, sweet, kind-hearted, moral person. If he was that way growing up, it had to be in there somewhere, right?

Nonetheless, I lost hope. For 4 years this surly, mean, self-indulgent, bitter person showed up who would call the cops to arrest us in our house, and even beat up M, my SO.

Every time this happened, I threw him out.

So, I guess I am answering you and myself. When I threw him out I must have detached, even though I did not know either the concept or the word.

I whole-heartedly believe that he could not have changed, had I allowed him to continue trashing us, our house, our relationship, me. Because by doing this he was betraying himself. I would have allowed him to betray the good that was in him.

I believe that the changing that is happening now is because of maturation on his part, and throwing him out/detaching. While the maturation has to do with physiological brain changes, his continuing in an environment where he did not have to face adult-consequences, would have undone the positives of maturation. I believe this. He needed both.

I do not want to suggest it is all milk and honey. But it is better than I hoped by leaps and bounds. I am so grateful to have him close to me (at least half the time.) He is here now and I am happy.

 

[Copabanana]

More than having a close relationship with my son, I just want him to be happy, to be content, to be settled, to stop running from himself and everyone who has ever cared about him.

Tanya, my son is being sweeter and kinder to us. He is trying harder to cooperate, even at working hard alongside M.

He is still not either happy or content. He is only settled because we are helping him. He still isolates. All of this is very, very hard on me.

But today he did say: "I am happy when I am working hard with M. Just like with H"(his friend, for whom he worked.) I was so happy to hear this word: Happy.

And he did say he would consider enrolling in a gym or martial arts place when I suggested it. (Bad COPA. When will you learn?) The sun rose and set on martial arts and working out up until 10 years ago. (You see, I want him to be happy so I can be happy.)

I think wishing for another person is a heart-breaking endeavor. We have not one bit of control.

I am very hard-headed. I WANT him to be happy. Look at how silly that seems writing it down.

Reading what your son told you about himself and his life, makes me very, very hopeful, for both of you.

Happy will come later. For me, I am finding my first real happy in a lifetime around the time I sign up for social security. I am grateful.

 

[Copabanana]

"Fooling yourself by living in the world of “ought to be” instead of the world of “what is”, only prolongs your heartache."

This is from Rebelson's signature. I agree with this to a point.

Ought to be is a killer. Both in terms of comparisons to other families and comparing to what we had hoped and dreamed would be--our fantasies which come from our own unmet needs and wants.

But what is, too, can trip you up because it is not always clear (usually not) just what is going on with our kids (and with us, too.) Pisces Mom has a thread currently called something like Just got back from visiting my son at residential treatment center. SWOT and I are going back and forth about our different understandings of what is, and why it is.

It is really hard to understand as it is happening, just why. When there are family issues, or adoption, or bad seeds in the family tree it is easy to fear that this is the causation. To me, these are easy answers, but not necessarily correct ones. Sometimes well-put-together kids and people go off the deep end for reasons that are highly personal, and these forays can be temporary and even can be beneficial (if they survive) because they become means whereby these individuals gain a deeper understanding of their lives and themselves.

I know that I have a fairly unique and idiosyncratic way of looking at things. And certainly, I welcome disagreement.

In sum, what is is not always what it is cracked up to be. It can look like one thing and be quite something different.

 

[savior no more]

will admit, that I wonder what it would be like if my son did get his life together, what might our relationship look like.

I wonder this at times and have a fantasy. It is a far cry from the reality that exists. My son couldn't even just hang at home or be there on holidays. I remind him of this now that he is incarcerated - all he wishes is to be home and see his Noni again. This started changing the last two years with the escalating drug use. I think without the drugs all sorts of relationship growths can occur, but not until the addiction is put to rest can anyone have any relationship whatsoever. Their time, attention and effort is going to the addiction.

 

[BusynMember]

My oldest son was always very difficult with mental health issues too. He should have gone to college. He has a very high IQ (evident when you talk to him) yet just when he was started college he became very mentally ill, had to drop out and for a while was even on SSI.

He was very difficult at that time, including sometimes being mean to even my ex who was giving him free room and board.

My son decided he hated his life snd found a good psycologist. He started running. He got a job. He felt better. He got his first sales job. He EXCELS in sales. The money rolled in. Companies started recruiting for him. Today we usually get along, he has his own new house, car, every electronic existing a college level pay job and is a doting father to his adorable, smart son. He lives two states away.

I preferred this kind of success for my son than that he is close to me, although we are close. Distance wise he isnt, but he is independent and successful. He calls me every day. Sometimes twiceva day. Sometimes i dont want to talk so much. He never gets tired of talking.

I love my kids with all my heart and soul, but would not want any of them at home with me. I gave them roots to grow and wings to fly and I find it fun to see where they land; what they choose. This doesnt mean your vision forvyourbchild is wrong. Its different, thats all.

Trust me, I have a pang that my youngest Jumper is moving an hour away to be near school and to live with her boyfriend. I love the nights she spends here...but she is a very mature young woman now who needs to fly away and finish school and probably marry this boyfriend one day and be a cop and put her family before anyone else. She is the one im having the hardest letting go of. But I must. As I did those before her.

So it is fine to view things differently and nobody is right or wrong. We are just mothers. We all want to remain connected to our adult kids whether they live with us or elsewhere.

 

[rebelson]

"Fooling yourself by living in the world of “ought to be” instead of the world of “what is”, only prolongs your heartache."

This is from Rebelson's signature. I agree with this to a point.

Ought to be is a killer. Both in terms of comparisons to other families and comparing to what we had hoped and dreamed would be--our fantasies which come from our own unmet needs and wants.

But what is, too, can trip you up because it is not always clear (usually not) just what is going on with our kids (and with us, too.) Pisces Mom has a thread currently called something like Just got back from visiting my son at residential treatment center. SWOT and I are going back and forth about our different understandings of what is, and why it is.

It is really hard to understand as it is happening, just why. When there are family issues, or adoption, or bad seeds in the family tree it is easy to fear that this is the causation. To me, these are easy answers, but not necessarily correct ones. Sometimes well-put-together kids and people go off the deep end for reasons that are highly personal, and these forays can be temporary and even can be beneficial (if they survive) because they become means whereby these individuals gain a deeper understanding of their lives and themselves.

I know that I have a fairly unique and idiosyncratic way of looking at things. And certainly, I welcome disagreement.

In sum, what is is not always what it is cracked up to be. It can look like one thing and be quite something different.

I appreciate your view of that quote, Copa. It's a little above my understanding, how you explained it. In reading your very articulate posts, you seem to be quite more philosophical than me. My son, also, is super philosophical (almost too much for his own good, thinks about EVERYTHING deeply) and I'm sure he would understand your deeper explanation of quote.

I don't remember where I got that quote from, but it was recent. When I read it, I felt it spoke to me.

For my son, 'my' world of 'ought to be' is simple. He could be, a clean, sober man graduating from college soon. He wanted to go to college, still talks about it & it may still happen one day. So, to me, this is an 'ought to be', by his own expressed desire.
He could be clean and sober without the past, as it has played out.

The 'what is', is.....well, what IS. My son is an addict.

 

[Copabanana]

It's a little above my understanding, how you explained it.

I must not have explained myself clearly enough. Do not, please, question yourself.

For my son, 'my' world of 'ought to be' is simple. He could be, a clean, sober man graduating from college soon. He wanted to go to college, still talks about it & it may still happen one day. So, to me, this is an 'ought to be', by his own expressed desire.

This was exactly my dream for my son. He will have none of it. None. My son is fluent in 3 languages. And conversant in 2 more. He loves philosophy, physics, history, culture. Why oh why will he not put that to use?

Because he needs to build himself based upon his own talents and abilities.

My son too wants to go to college, but he does not want to in a way that will work. It may never come to be. As long as college is not something our sons want in such a way that they work to get there and to stay there, they do not want it. Ought to be on our part becomes something hurtful and destructive.

I know because I still have not let go and every time I try to stick my neck into it, it causes trouble.

what IS. My son is an addict.

And so were thousands of other great creative and successful people, novelists, actors, artists, writers, musicians whose lives and work could never be reduced to he or she was an addict.

What I meant by what is is that what people are working out, what is meant by any action or choice is often different than what it seems. There is a whole latent story underneath what is manifest or visible. A message or story or inner work.

Since my mother died, 2 and a half years ago, I have spent almost all of my time in bed, in my house. You could call me a recluse, but that does not describe what these years have meant for me, in me and in my life. See?

He could be clean and sober without the past, as it has played out.

No he could not be. Because that life for your son did not come to be. Did not play out. He chose that it not because he chose another life, another path, on purpose, because on some level he wanted to or needed to. It was not an accident.

That does not mean that he could not, cannot change course, but the changing must come from him, not you or me. It must come from someplace deep in him. The words, deep structure, come to mind. I do not know why. He may need to create that place in himself. That is why he may need to leave you.

 

[BusynMember]

I read some interesting book when I was in the psyche hospital.

One out of ten people suffer mental illness

But....

Out of the creative population it is....

Eight out of ten. This creative person believes. Many brilliant, creative people non the less live sad lives. DaVinci, Shakespeare, Hemingway...gifted, yes. Happy, no. So many more...

Hemingways granddaughter wrote a book about the extreme mental illness in her family tree. It is on Amazon. I didnt read it, but it is there. I dont recall the name. I am not sure, but I think HER name is Muriel Hemingway, if anyone wants to check it out. A family curse. Mental illness.

I am not sure why I wrote this post. I guess...to show genius is meaningless if you aren't happy. Its off topic. Sorry to interrupt.
...

 

[Copabanana]

to show genius is meaningless if you aren't happy.

I do not believe this.

One can feel "happy" with too much to drink or pills or drugs. What is happy, really? Happy, really happy, comes in a moment--a breeze on one's face, a smile, completing an arduous task, reflecting upon a smile of a loved one. I felt happy yesterday when my son said he felt happy working hard. I feel happy when I remember he is in my house and there is not turmoil, fear, anger--I have him close and I can feel love. That to me is happiness.

Happiness is not the absence of pain altogether. I believe Hemingway, Da Vinci, whomever felt a form of happiness while engrossed in their craft. Perhaps their only real happiness. There is a concept that goes by many names, such as the zone, referring to moving in ones consciousness away from the ego into a place of creativity or bliss. I think that is how these greats found their happiness, through creating.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

No such thing as a happy addict. There are many who would lie about being happy, but addiction is not the kind of group anybody particularly wants to be a part of. Happy people don't need to rely on the effects of mind altering chemicals to feel content and satisfied. Drugs give an addict not happiness, just release. It is running away and hiding.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Humans are not driven by happiness, in my opinion. We are more driven by fulfilment - doing things that give us some internal reward. When we cannot get there - we seek other things to fill the gap. Sometimes it's happiness. Or relationships. Or any number of other things, including drug abuse.

 

[Copabanana]

We are more driven by fulfilment - doing things that give us some internal reward.

Like Viktor Frankl and the existentialists said. Meaning. I buy this.

If it were happiness that motivated us and only this we would all give it up.

Who was it, I do not remember now, who said happiness is an ethical life. Oh. I remember: Plato. And he said a life could not be known as ethical or not until its very end.

 

[rebelson]

Like Viktor Frankl and the existentialists said. Meaning. I buy this.

If it were happiness that motivated us and only this we would all give it up.

Who was it, I do not remember now, who said happiness is an ethical life. Oh. I remember: Plato. And he said a life could not be known as ethical or not until its very end.

I love that about happiness, fulfillment! My son has said some very interesting things, one liners about happiness, humanity. I wish I cld accurately remember one.

He often wld say that he was 'apathetic'.

He likes to talk about how 'animalistic' we all are. He has such interesting viewpoints...

He really finds Carl Jung interesting. I agree.

 

[Tanya M]

Humans are not driven by happiness, in my opinion. We are more driven by fulfilment

I agree. For myself, I make a conscious effort to stay positive. I work hard and I choose to be content with what I have. If there is something I want I set the goal, I put forth the effort and work for it. I do not believe in instant gratification. It always comes back to choice, how we choose to see life, how we choose to live life.
I have endured many trials in my life, I have been hurt and betrayed by someone who was supposed to protect me. I've endured serious health issues and numerous surgeries. I've lost loved ones that I still miss every day. Anyone of these events in my life could have completely broken me but again, it comes down to choice. I made the choice to stay positive, to be content, to be happy.
The question that I may never know the answer to, is why some people are able to make better choices and some continue to make choices that only hurt themselves and others.

 

[InsaneCdn]

The question that I may never know the answer to, is why some people are able to make better choices and some continue to make choices that only hurt themselves and others.

I know some who do, and some who don't. Can't speak for all of them - but one in particular has never had a right outcome even to right choices. It seems like everything works against this person - to the point that they have pretty much given up trying the "right" choices. It's just too much work when you don't get anything back for it.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

I know some who do, and some who don't. Can't speak for all of them - but one in particular has never had a right outcome even to right choices. It seems like everything works against this person - to the point that they have pretty much given up trying the "right" choices. It's just too much work when you don't get anything back for it.

Well, good and bad are subjective. In a perfect world, a perfectly sane good person will make perfectly good choices. But things aren't that black and white. Generally, good people do good things, and bad people do bad things. They say there are only 2 things that can make a good person do a bad thing; religion, and addiction. Regardless of how you feel about the religion part, this does hold true with the addiction part. It is a vast expanse of gray. Otherwise decent people do awful things. People should be judged by their actions, sure, but there are things to consider. An addict being an addict isn't quite the same thing as your good child becoming a bad person. It is a situation where your otherwise good child does very bad things. And the cause is clear. They can come back from it. They aren't just transformed into a monster forever. Only when they actively use. The mind heals like the body heals. It just takes work, and time. They don't just lose their conscience, or their ability to differentiate right from wrong. It might be more forgivable if that were the case, but it isn't. Addiction takes EVERYTHING from us. Not just our physical belongings. Our pride, our compassion, our common decency, and our moral standards. But it doesn't have to be forever.