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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 390606" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>YES. But I don't agree that this boy is behaving like a typical abuser. Although his father comes close... and with that example, it's not good.</p><p></p><p>OK, take a deep breath, Kjs. This kid needs to learn action and consequences. YOU also need to learn to duck out of being blamed. His dad blamed you for the call to him, asking him to help (by picking up his son). Suddenly dad has to work back? Yeah, right... he's trying to duck out of having to actually DO anything. If your son or you had been in an accident, you can bet the boss would let him come home immediately.</p><p></p><p>YOU need to take back control, at least of what you CAN control. Then shrug off the rest. Hand it back to where it belongs.</p><p></p><p>Another problem I think you inadvertently aggravated - your son rang you, because he needed help making a decision. "Mom, what should I do? Should I catch the bus or will you come and get me?" It was a light bulb for me - this kid wanted YOU to make the choice for him, and when you refused, he abused you. If you had realised that was why, would you have still been so upset? He is not abusing you, or angry with you, he is just ANGRY. The medication muck-around is a huge part of this. Yes, he has to learn to not lash out in anger, but he has some very good teachers there (sorry - I'm calling it). What your son needs, is the EXAMPLE of calm control around him, and you can't do that at the moment without help. A lot of help. You're burned out, hon, and you need to get your grounding back.</p><p></p><p>Then when you do, learn to not react. Do not see his verbal abuse as aimed at you (even if his words are, the abuse is not - keep telling yourself this). He is just plain angry, because life is out of control, his mind is out of control and he hates it. In the past you have been the one to fix it, so he wants you to fix it now. Again. And if shouting at you will make you do what he wants, he will shout at you. He's been taught that shouting makes it happen.</p><p></p><p>So - first, don't YOU shout. Not at anyone. Often, the quiet, controlled voice can be more scary, anyway. If you are in an argument with someone and they are shouting, but you are speaking softly, they have to shut up to hear you. If they don't shut up, they can't hear what you have said, and if they don't hear you say, "I'm selling your golf clubs to the pawn shop next week if you don't go mow the lawn before you go out with your golfing buddies yet again," and you then follow through, he will learn that you mean what you say and you need to be listened to. "You probably couldn't hear me - I was not shouting at you."</p><p></p><p>OK, weird example. But I had a teacher at school who used to do this - while the class was in uproar, she would quietly say, "there will be a pop quiz tomorrow; this is the topic." ONly those who were being quiet, could hear. And those kids who were making the worst noise, us other kids were not inclined to rescue. They learned, fast, that when the teacher spoke SOFTLY, they had to shut up fast.</p><p>It requires follow-through though. Consistency. And at the moment that requires more strength than I think you have right now.</p><p></p><p>So go find that strength. And to avoid being dragged down constantly, learn how to shrug off the abuse. A counsellor will help. Next time difficult child says, "I have nothing to say; come get me," go get him but make him wait outside. Then YOU take the rest of the appointment time! Let difficult child wonder what you could be saying ABOUT HIM. </p><p></p><p>Frankly at therapist appointments, I am either in the room with the kid (including my adult, married daughter) or I'm waiting outside.</p><p></p><p>I remember my own therapist appointments when I was a kid - basically, I had no skills and would often spend much of the time trying to work out how to pass the time without making eye contact and having to give that little embarrassed smile. I never really understood why I was there. I think I understand now, but I wish my therapist had been far more proactive and actually DUG for answers. I would have been very cooperative; but if she didn't ask questions, I had nothing to say. And I know NOW I needed a lot of help. Looking back, it should have been glaringly obvious. But I was too young to know what help I needed; what help was available; and how to ask for it.</p><p></p><p>Kjs, I suspect your son is the same - he doesn't know how to ask for help. But he knows at some level he needs help. His anxiety is a huge problem, again he reminds me a lot of difficult child 3. As he is getting older, he is getting more verbally abusive. he also can argue black is white, very fluently. But I have learned to not wear it. I shrug responsibility right back to him. I also use praise where appropriate, to de-fuse the anger and anxiety. When you are dragged down as you are, you can't see the good in your son at all, which means you can't find anything worth praising. But it is there, even as he is now. He didn't take his pill because he was worried about side effects - "Son, I am proud of you for paying attention and caring about your own health. But the doctor would have been very careful a bout prescribing this. Let's discuss the level of risk and help you make the choice you need to make. We have to weigh up the risks of taking the medications, vs the risks of not taking the medications. Let's find out under what conditions this can cause heart problems. Hmm, it says here that only if there are pre-existing and serious heart problems. In other words, you are fit, healthy and have no problems. They have no records of anyone like that having problems." [I am guessing here - do check it out before you say anything like this!]</p><p>Of if you are not equipped to check this out, then ask the doctor to do this and EXPLAIN IT TO difficult child. As he gets older, he has to begin making his own decisions. And he is so stressed right now, he is frozen when it comes to making decisions. He wants you to make them all, then he also has someone to blame when things are not working.</p><p></p><p>Now, when he calls and asks you to make a decision for him, don't just say, "You do what you want," because he NEEDS help. But also, don't just make the decision for him. HELP HIM make his own decision. "Son, you could wait for the bus. While you wait, you could put in the extra time you lost while you slept. Or I could come and get you, but it would be inconvenient for me; I would require some help from you in turn, to make up for pulling me away from my work." Then when he makes the choice, even if you have talked him into it, make sure he owns the choice. "So you want me to come get you? You are sure? This is your choice? OK, I'll see you soon."</p><p>If he then rails at you for anything, point out it was his choice. You heard him say so.</p><p></p><p>This takes time, it takes practice. But your whole family is overloaded with stress and you each have developed very unhealthy ways to handle it, and all those ways are interacting negatively. You are the one who bears the brunt of it. You are the focus for this family, in other words. </p><p>That has to change, and again - the first one to change this, has to be you. it has nothing to do with fault, or blame - it just IS, simply because of how your particular family dynamic currently functions.</p><p></p><p>You need to turn yourself into Hilary Clinton. Strong, capable, calm, dignified but no pushover for anybody.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 390606, member: 1991"] YES. But I don't agree that this boy is behaving like a typical abuser. Although his father comes close... and with that example, it's not good. OK, take a deep breath, Kjs. This kid needs to learn action and consequences. YOU also need to learn to duck out of being blamed. His dad blamed you for the call to him, asking him to help (by picking up his son). Suddenly dad has to work back? Yeah, right... he's trying to duck out of having to actually DO anything. If your son or you had been in an accident, you can bet the boss would let him come home immediately. YOU need to take back control, at least of what you CAN control. Then shrug off the rest. Hand it back to where it belongs. Another problem I think you inadvertently aggravated - your son rang you, because he needed help making a decision. "Mom, what should I do? Should I catch the bus or will you come and get me?" It was a light bulb for me - this kid wanted YOU to make the choice for him, and when you refused, he abused you. If you had realised that was why, would you have still been so upset? He is not abusing you, or angry with you, he is just ANGRY. The medication muck-around is a huge part of this. Yes, he has to learn to not lash out in anger, but he has some very good teachers there (sorry - I'm calling it). What your son needs, is the EXAMPLE of calm control around him, and you can't do that at the moment without help. A lot of help. You're burned out, hon, and you need to get your grounding back. Then when you do, learn to not react. Do not see his verbal abuse as aimed at you (even if his words are, the abuse is not - keep telling yourself this). He is just plain angry, because life is out of control, his mind is out of control and he hates it. In the past you have been the one to fix it, so he wants you to fix it now. Again. And if shouting at you will make you do what he wants, he will shout at you. He's been taught that shouting makes it happen. So - first, don't YOU shout. Not at anyone. Often, the quiet, controlled voice can be more scary, anyway. If you are in an argument with someone and they are shouting, but you are speaking softly, they have to shut up to hear you. If they don't shut up, they can't hear what you have said, and if they don't hear you say, "I'm selling your golf clubs to the pawn shop next week if you don't go mow the lawn before you go out with your golfing buddies yet again," and you then follow through, he will learn that you mean what you say and you need to be listened to. "You probably couldn't hear me - I was not shouting at you." OK, weird example. But I had a teacher at school who used to do this - while the class was in uproar, she would quietly say, "there will be a pop quiz tomorrow; this is the topic." ONly those who were being quiet, could hear. And those kids who were making the worst noise, us other kids were not inclined to rescue. They learned, fast, that when the teacher spoke SOFTLY, they had to shut up fast. It requires follow-through though. Consistency. And at the moment that requires more strength than I think you have right now. So go find that strength. And to avoid being dragged down constantly, learn how to shrug off the abuse. A counsellor will help. Next time difficult child says, "I have nothing to say; come get me," go get him but make him wait outside. Then YOU take the rest of the appointment time! Let difficult child wonder what you could be saying ABOUT HIM. Frankly at therapist appointments, I am either in the room with the kid (including my adult, married daughter) or I'm waiting outside. I remember my own therapist appointments when I was a kid - basically, I had no skills and would often spend much of the time trying to work out how to pass the time without making eye contact and having to give that little embarrassed smile. I never really understood why I was there. I think I understand now, but I wish my therapist had been far more proactive and actually DUG for answers. I would have been very cooperative; but if she didn't ask questions, I had nothing to say. And I know NOW I needed a lot of help. Looking back, it should have been glaringly obvious. But I was too young to know what help I needed; what help was available; and how to ask for it. Kjs, I suspect your son is the same - he doesn't know how to ask for help. But he knows at some level he needs help. His anxiety is a huge problem, again he reminds me a lot of difficult child 3. As he is getting older, he is getting more verbally abusive. he also can argue black is white, very fluently. But I have learned to not wear it. I shrug responsibility right back to him. I also use praise where appropriate, to de-fuse the anger and anxiety. When you are dragged down as you are, you can't see the good in your son at all, which means you can't find anything worth praising. But it is there, even as he is now. He didn't take his pill because he was worried about side effects - "Son, I am proud of you for paying attention and caring about your own health. But the doctor would have been very careful a bout prescribing this. Let's discuss the level of risk and help you make the choice you need to make. We have to weigh up the risks of taking the medications, vs the risks of not taking the medications. Let's find out under what conditions this can cause heart problems. Hmm, it says here that only if there are pre-existing and serious heart problems. In other words, you are fit, healthy and have no problems. They have no records of anyone like that having problems." [I am guessing here - do check it out before you say anything like this!] Of if you are not equipped to check this out, then ask the doctor to do this and EXPLAIN IT TO difficult child. As he gets older, he has to begin making his own decisions. And he is so stressed right now, he is frozen when it comes to making decisions. He wants you to make them all, then he also has someone to blame when things are not working. Now, when he calls and asks you to make a decision for him, don't just say, "You do what you want," because he NEEDS help. But also, don't just make the decision for him. HELP HIM make his own decision. "Son, you could wait for the bus. While you wait, you could put in the extra time you lost while you slept. Or I could come and get you, but it would be inconvenient for me; I would require some help from you in turn, to make up for pulling me away from my work." Then when he makes the choice, even if you have talked him into it, make sure he owns the choice. "So you want me to come get you? You are sure? This is your choice? OK, I'll see you soon." If he then rails at you for anything, point out it was his choice. You heard him say so. This takes time, it takes practice. But your whole family is overloaded with stress and you each have developed very unhealthy ways to handle it, and all those ways are interacting negatively. You are the one who bears the brunt of it. You are the focus for this family, in other words. That has to change, and again - the first one to change this, has to be you. it has nothing to do with fault, or blame - it just IS, simply because of how your particular family dynamic currently functions. You need to turn yourself into Hilary Clinton. Strong, capable, calm, dignified but no pushover for anybody. Marg [/QUOTE]
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