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I need to get up the guts to tell someone something ...
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 401300" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I think I need to emphasise here that there is a big gulf between someone who is religious and devout, and someone who is a "religious fanatic". I think perhaps the distinction is how dysfunctional the person is, and also how much damage they can do to others. A genuinely devout and caring person is usually also very considerate. A fanatic can often choose to do what they want, often behaving selfishly, but uses whatever spiritual entity they follow as justification. Any religion will have its share of both these types of people.</p><p></p><p>It can also be difficult for someone else to see the difference, if the truth is hidden. There are many cases where people believe someone is a good and honest person leading an upright life, only to find out that this is actually not the case. People get hurt, because the fanatic uses twisted logic to justify anything they want.</p><p></p><p>A girl I once knew was very religious. She seemed to me to be a lovely, kind person who did a lot of jobs like babysitting, although she never held down a real job. She always seemed a dreamer, head in the clouds, although she was practical enough for me to trust her with the kids. But she was also saving her money to go on a pilgrimage of sorts, there was a place in Europe where there was a religious retreat which she said she felt God was telling her she should attend. She told us about it in church on many occasions, said God was telling her she should go on pilgrimage there. Of course she didn't have the money for it but she booked the tickets anyway then prayed aloud in church for a miracle and of course the money was found (the church elders donated it because otherwise - I don't know what would have happened when the bills came in). Her mother enabled this, was very proud of her spiritual daughter. They praised God for the miracle of the money materialising, but when you look at this from the point of view of people being emotionally blackmailed, there was no miracle.</p><p></p><p>But what I did not know at the time, was this girl also had a 'crush' on a celebrity who lived in Europe. She had told her mother, and also a few people at the church, that God had told her that this celebrity would leave his wife and she (our girl) would marry him and lead him back to God. Her entire purpose in life was to bring this celebrity back to God, she said. The church elders were not happy with this and tried to talk to her; but her mother was also someone who would do whatever she wanted and then say, "God told me to." So when the church elders gave her money for her trip, they said that she must not deviate from the plan to go to the retreat, she must not attempt to contact the celebrity. She solemnly promised.</p><p>And yes - you got it - she went to the retreat for barely two days before she checked out and began stalking the celebrity. She sat outside his home until the police were called. She found where his parents lived and went to talk to them, told them that God had said he would leave his wife for her, and could they please assist her in her quest? Totally out of touch with reality, I had never realised she was like this. She was about 20 at the time, the celebrity was in his 40s and happily married with kids half her age. It was really bizarre. The celebrity had to file a protection order against her and she was made to leave the country. She came back and all I remembered at the time, was her showing us pictures of her wonderful time at the retreat. She did mention to the church that she had also spent a little time in another location, but we had no idea of any of the celebrity stalking stuff at the time - we continued to only see the beautiful spiritual girl we knew. And of course, we continued to financially support her. of course, I know now it was all distortion, those photos were all taken over the two days she was there, and she said nothing to us personally about the celebrity or being deported.</p><p></p><p>So that is the example of someone who seemed devout, but underneath was a fanatic and unbalanced.</p><p></p><p>I only found this story out years later, long after the family had moved to the country, when one of the church elders, the one who had financed the girl's trip providing it was a pilgrimage, told me what had happened. I later heard more about it from a totally independent source.</p><p></p><p>The problem with this case - I only knew this girl at the time, as a girl with a deep faith. The church elders kept the other stuff quiet to protect her. But in fact it enabled her to continue in her unhealthy obsession. It also allowed her to continue to solicit people for money for her "work for God". If the elders had been more open and honest, then fewer people would have been fleeced. She of course did not see that anything she was doing was dishonest. Because to her mind, any promise she was asked to make was not a promise worth keeping, if it meant she had to go against what she believed God had told her to do. It is sad - she was unable to recognise that it was not God speaking, but her own personal obsession.</p><p></p><p>Honesty and transparency is important. If you can't talk to the parents, find a church elder to talk to and ask their advice. If you discover that they already know and are trying to keep it quiet - then you are stuck. So go carefully. But in any situation like this, my vote is always for transparency.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 401300, member: 1991"] I think I need to emphasise here that there is a big gulf between someone who is religious and devout, and someone who is a "religious fanatic". I think perhaps the distinction is how dysfunctional the person is, and also how much damage they can do to others. A genuinely devout and caring person is usually also very considerate. A fanatic can often choose to do what they want, often behaving selfishly, but uses whatever spiritual entity they follow as justification. Any religion will have its share of both these types of people. It can also be difficult for someone else to see the difference, if the truth is hidden. There are many cases where people believe someone is a good and honest person leading an upright life, only to find out that this is actually not the case. People get hurt, because the fanatic uses twisted logic to justify anything they want. A girl I once knew was very religious. She seemed to me to be a lovely, kind person who did a lot of jobs like babysitting, although she never held down a real job. She always seemed a dreamer, head in the clouds, although she was practical enough for me to trust her with the kids. But she was also saving her money to go on a pilgrimage of sorts, there was a place in Europe where there was a religious retreat which she said she felt God was telling her she should attend. She told us about it in church on many occasions, said God was telling her she should go on pilgrimage there. Of course she didn't have the money for it but she booked the tickets anyway then prayed aloud in church for a miracle and of course the money was found (the church elders donated it because otherwise - I don't know what would have happened when the bills came in). Her mother enabled this, was very proud of her spiritual daughter. They praised God for the miracle of the money materialising, but when you look at this from the point of view of people being emotionally blackmailed, there was no miracle. But what I did not know at the time, was this girl also had a 'crush' on a celebrity who lived in Europe. She had told her mother, and also a few people at the church, that God had told her that this celebrity would leave his wife and she (our girl) would marry him and lead him back to God. Her entire purpose in life was to bring this celebrity back to God, she said. The church elders were not happy with this and tried to talk to her; but her mother was also someone who would do whatever she wanted and then say, "God told me to." So when the church elders gave her money for her trip, they said that she must not deviate from the plan to go to the retreat, she must not attempt to contact the celebrity. She solemnly promised. And yes - you got it - she went to the retreat for barely two days before she checked out and began stalking the celebrity. She sat outside his home until the police were called. She found where his parents lived and went to talk to them, told them that God had said he would leave his wife for her, and could they please assist her in her quest? Totally out of touch with reality, I had never realised she was like this. She was about 20 at the time, the celebrity was in his 40s and happily married with kids half her age. It was really bizarre. The celebrity had to file a protection order against her and she was made to leave the country. She came back and all I remembered at the time, was her showing us pictures of her wonderful time at the retreat. She did mention to the church that she had also spent a little time in another location, but we had no idea of any of the celebrity stalking stuff at the time - we continued to only see the beautiful spiritual girl we knew. And of course, we continued to financially support her. of course, I know now it was all distortion, those photos were all taken over the two days she was there, and she said nothing to us personally about the celebrity or being deported. So that is the example of someone who seemed devout, but underneath was a fanatic and unbalanced. I only found this story out years later, long after the family had moved to the country, when one of the church elders, the one who had financed the girl's trip providing it was a pilgrimage, told me what had happened. I later heard more about it from a totally independent source. The problem with this case - I only knew this girl at the time, as a girl with a deep faith. The church elders kept the other stuff quiet to protect her. But in fact it enabled her to continue in her unhealthy obsession. It also allowed her to continue to solicit people for money for her "work for God". If the elders had been more open and honest, then fewer people would have been fleeced. She of course did not see that anything she was doing was dishonest. Because to her mind, any promise she was asked to make was not a promise worth keeping, if it meant she had to go against what she believed God had told her to do. It is sad - she was unable to recognise that it was not God speaking, but her own personal obsession. Honesty and transparency is important. If you can't talk to the parents, find a church elder to talk to and ask their advice. If you discover that they already know and are trying to keep it quiet - then you are stuck. So go carefully. But in any situation like this, my vote is always for transparency. Marg [/QUOTE]
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