I need to learn to be more assertive

[hearts and roses]

Karen, as difficult as it may be to do so, I think you should tell your friends to remain silent about all the stupid things he says from here on in. You don't need the added stress and, like you said, it brings the entire level of your marriage down a notch to be all gossipy about it.

You know how to take care of yourself and what to do for your future - hang on to that. And let H do whatever it is he's going to do, because even if you wanted to give him another chance, he'd do it anyway. It's his nature to look out only for himself, you know this.

I would politely ask my friend to stop relaying thier conversations to you if they only contain things that may hurt you or damage you in some way (and asking about a neighbor's availability is one of those things).

Gentle hugs - keep on keepin' on - Peace.

 

[Marguerite]

If her telling you makes you want to confront him with it - then tell her to stop telling you. Otherwise, take notes for that potboiler novel I suggested you write. He's giving you plenty of juicy material!

I mean, really - "I want my wife back, she's all I ever want, I don't even want to think of another woman... hey, can you let my old girlfriend know I'm on the loose, wild and free?"

It reminds me of the ADHD t-shirt which reads, "My mother says I have ADHD which means I have a short atte...hey, look, a dog!"

I know you said before that you trust Jill - right now I would not be confiding in ANYONE who is in ANY contact with your husband. That way, they can't let anything accidentally slip. I had to do this, even with my best friend, because I knew she sometimes car-pooled with my stalker's wife and he had involved his wife in trying to interrogate my friends for ANY information about what I was doing. I continued to have coffee with my friend and to tell her anything innocent which I knew was common knowledge anyway. Eventually my stalker and his wife began to leave my friends alone (because he moved on to other targets, plus I had sealed up all information sources).

It wasn't that I minded him knowing - I really don't care who knows, with most of my life - it was just that he would distort it and make me look bad. I told a friend at church that my part-time job had temporarily scaled back because our latest magazine issue had been put to bed and we had a couple of weeks' break; she was 'interrogated' at the local café ("Oh, what's my good friend Marg doing these days? I hardly ever get to see her, how is her new job going?") and the next I heard, he was telling people around the town that I was about to lose my job. This was NOT good for my credibility, or my reputation I need for my freelance work. Of course, all said in a tone of, "Poor thing, I wonder how my old friend is feeling, with her life falling apart around her?"
Even my best friend would not be immune, I knew, to an innocent question from another woman. It is so easy to divulge information which can be misused; only you REALLY have the vital need to preserve your space. To our friends, even our best friends, we are less important to them than they themselves are. It's only natural.

So if you're going to let Jill keep telling you things (and I do understand the temptation; besides, it IS firming your resolve) then you have to:

1) stop thinking, "I must talk to him about this," because you never can; and

2) guard your own words carefully. Very carefully. Do not burden her with your concerns, unless it is about the high price of washing powder. You do NOT want the slightest chance of information going the other way. Even accidentally. Because if, at some later stage, you discover he knows a great deal more about what you've been doing or saying, than he should, your will first be thinking, "Jill must have told him," even if it wasn't her, but someone else. Don't do it to yourself, don't do it to Jill.

But please, for all our sakes - if you're going to keep listening at Jill's keyhole, take notes. I want to read the novel one day!

Marg

 

[donna723]

As one who's been there done that, trust me on this one ... he KNOWS that she's passing it all along to you! That's exactly why he's doing it! He tells HER all these juicy little "details" and she tells YOU - it's just another way for him to keep you involved in his chaotic life. He keeps trying to draw you back in, to make you care, to make you a part of his life again. And you DO care, if from habit, if nothing else. I understand that. When I was in that position, I wanted to know all the juicy details too, if for nothing else than to be able to know when he was lying. But I soon learned that it was very easy to tell when he was lying - if his lips were moving, he was probably lying! Your sounds a lot like that too. I learned a long time go to not rely on ANYTHING that he said as being the truth!

Your BFF Jill is playing right in to it, and so are you! This is part of making the break, if that's what you truely want to do. Your best friend is NOT the one he needs to be confiding in. When he starts telling her all of this, she needs to stop him and say, "I don't want to hear it!" And if she does listen and then tries to pass it along to you, as hard as it wil be, YOU need to tell her the same thing ... "I don't want to hear it!" You're sending him very mixed messages, and he's playing mind games with you. What he told BFF Jill made you want to confront him - mission accomplished! He drew you right back in to it again! See where I'm coming from?

And what he REALLY told her was exactly the same as what he told you! That he "loves" you and "misses" you and that he wants his old comfy life back, but if you don't hurry up and snatch him back real quick while you have the chance, he'll go after what's-her-name down the street! He's found out that single life isn't what he thought it would be. He misses the comfortable homelife, he misses having someone's world revolve around him, he misses having his dinners cooked and his laundry done. It's still all about HIM! They DO have their priorities, don't they! Are you sure that he's not related to my ex??? :wink:

 

[donna723]

Me again! :smile:

The thing that bothers me the most here is that he's pushing you so hard and trying to get a quick answer out of you. I think that, at this stage of the game, what you need the most is peace and quiet, and the absence of conflict! With me, that's when I finally started to heal and make progress. You need peace and quiet and TIME! You need time to think things through calmly. You need time to quietly process the grief of losing your mother and come to terms with it. You really haven't been able to do that yet, with all the chaos that HE'S caused and continues to cause for you. And you need time to try life on your own, in your very own place, making your own decisions, standing on your own two feet. I think you'll discover that you like it!

I honestly think he's pushing you so hard to make a decision to ease his own guilty conscience! Either way you decide, HE'S off the hook, if you think about it. If you were to decide to take him back, then all is forgiven and he's right back in his old cushy life again. If you tell him "No way!", then he will see it as YOU breaking it off and he can look at it as you giving him permission to run around with other women guilt-free.

He's upset because he sees it as you leaving him dangling. This time shouldn't be about HIM! Scr*w him! This is about YOU taking the time you desperately need to think things through calmly, to work through the issues with your counselor (who sounds GREAT, by the way), to get your balance back, to decide what's best for YOU for a change. And it's about time! And only after this time on your own can you truely know if you are better off with him or without him! There's an old country song about "How can I miss you when you won't leave?" Stick to your guns, hon!

 

[skeeter]

It's STILL all about him. Stop talking to him. Stop talking to Jill about him. I know I can't tell you to stop thinking about him, but try.

Remember the mantra here - Detach, Detach, Detach. You aren't.

What kind of idiot tells someone that he had a (I won't say what because I'm trying to keep this clean) 5 years ago, but he wants you back, but, by the way, do you have that other chick's information?

I think I'd need to see a health certificate just to shake his hand!!!!

Detach, Detach, Detach.

So, what wonderful plans do you have this weekend? Go and splurge on something for the apartment that YOU love. Make it gaudy, and purple, and girly, and whatever.

 

[susiestar]

I don't have advice as far as the gossip, but if you do listen, I want to read the potboiler novel also!!

My strongest advice is that you need to get checked for STDs. ALL of them. You could have one for years and not knowit. Many men get them and have no idea because they don't get sores or whatever as often now. The STD's have changed in what obvious symptoms they have.

Part of taking care of Karen is medical care. We want you around for a LOONNGG time with us!

Hugs,

Susie

 

[DammitJanet]

EWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was the girl in the bar named Monica by chance?

Could your H be telling your BFF all this stuff just to see if she will run to you with it? I mean for real, this is getting to read like a Danielle Steele novel! Or maybe one of those trashier ones that you pick up in an adult bookstore.

I agree...make an appointment to go get tested for every imaginable icky that could be out there.

 

[jbrain]

Hi Karen,
this may be a dumb question, but why can't you let him know how you found out all these things? Seems to me that Jill owes him no allegiance--why can't you just say, "oh, Jill told me about your conversation the other day?" Does she honestly care whether he knows she is telling you what he says? I sure wouldn't if it was my best friend. If I were Jill I would tell him, "hey, anything you tell me can and will be used against you!"

Also, if she is your bff can you not tell her that it hurts you to hear about these things? If she must hear his true confessions then maybe she could just keep them to herself.

You are being way too worried about what Jill and Bff think--get asssertive--get it out in the open! QUIT PROTECTING THEM

Okay, thanks for listening.

Jane

 

[Kathy813]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What kind of idiot tells someone that he had a (I won't say what because I'm trying to keep this clean) 5 years ago, but he wants you back, but, by the way, do you have that other chick's information?
</div></div>

skeeter ~ You took the words right out of my mouth!

Karen ~ I think everyone else said all that I could say so I am just sending a {{{hug}}}.

~Kathy

 

[KFld]

He actually stopped by Jills again today and she said she was really uncomfortable and she told me that she has no problem if I really feel I need to confront him with things, doing so. Like she said, he never said don't tell Karen.
She said when he stopped by today he kept looking out the window down the street to where her neighbor lives that he was asking about and then asked her if she has her number. She said she told him numerous times that she doesn't even know her well enough to have her number. Jills husband ran into my h the other night and he told him to if he ever sees this neighbor to tell her he's seperated.

I have plenty to confront him with, but I think for now I'll just keep it to myself. I know enough about what he's like and has been doing to base my decision on. As well as he knows what he's done wrong. I don't feel I need to let him know that Jill has been telling me everything. She is my boyfriend and if he's foolish enough to think she isn't going to tell me, then he's just foolish. I'll wait until the perfect opportunity.

Anyway, I went shopping today and bought some nice stuff for my apartment. I'm really excited about tomorrow, because we are moving the living room furniture and easy child's bedroom set over. My brother in law and sister in law will come over tomorrow night and have pizza with us for dinner. Our first dinner guests :smile:

tuesday we will move my bedroom stuff over and that is the first night we will sleep there. I took Wednesday off from work and cable is coming to hook up my t.v., internet and phone. this is actually pretty fun :smile:

 

[Marguerite]

"Anyway, I went shopping today and bought some nice stuff for my apartment. I'm really excited about tomorrow..."

Aaaah, the benefits of retail therapy, especially associated with a new start! Enjoy the dinner party.

As for H - sounds like that no matter what he is telling you, he has already moved on.

Marg

 

[1905]

I can't believe the therapist would tell you that you need to figure out where this came from by next Thursday! That's just you, accept it, embrace it and work on it. Practice, you know how good it feels to assert yourself, and it makes you uncomfortable, but you're still doing it. Good for you!! (never having been to a therapist, I don't know what I'm talking about)I hope everything went well last night and you said what you needed to.-Alyssa

 

[KFld]

She didn't say I had to figure it out by next Thursday, she said she wanted me to think about where that part of me has come from.

I really haven't had much time to concentrate on that anyway, but I'm sure she'll understand.

 

[TerryJ2]

{{{hugs, Karen}}}
Count me in as a pleaser. Despite the fact I know how to fight, I'd prefer to walk away.
I agree with-nvts and Skeeter. I love the part where you repeat, "I'm not ready to answer that right now."
There is no law that says you have to answer people's questions at that exact moment, every moment of the day.
Very weird about H looking out the window and asking about the other woman. Creepy.
LOL about the benefits of retail therapy!
I'm sending luck and hugs and strength your way.

 

[busywend]

I do not know H, but I think he is freaking out because he knows he is losing you. I think he realizes now just how lucky he was. He knows he messed up his life. He knows he can not make up for what he has done. I think the neighbor woman is just something to take his mind off his messed up life. Poor, stupid man. He can not for the life of him figure out what to do to get his life back. He is too emotional. Probably can not even keep a straight thought. Or follow through with counselor's advice.

I am glad you feel so lucky to get this opportunity to find Karen. It is so great that you are focusing on you. I am thrilled for you to enjoy your new place!

 

[DDD]

Having a fresh start in a new place may be a terrific step. I
hope, however, that your former husband is not allowed to be part of
your new life...even by way of shared stories. Get a machine
so you don't have to talk to him. Think of you and easy child. I think
if Jill was "uncomfortable" with his visit...it's time for her
to say she's no longer comfortable hearing about those issues.
Good luck! DDD