I wish they wouldn't

[Malika]

Picked J up from the play centre today and there was a worker I hadn't seen there before. She opened the door to me and immediately said "Very difficult!" I'm sorry? "J was very difficult today! Running around everywhere and wouldn't listen, blaming everyone else! Very difficult!" All in his earshot. She went on like this, in this kind of outraged tone, also saying to J at one point "Do you hear, J? You were very difficult today!" Finally, I said to her, in a lower tone "Do you know he's hyperactive?" Oh yes, she said breezily, they knew all about that! But still sometimes he listens and does as he is told and today he did not...
Why did she do this? What am I supposed to do, if anything, about it? Today has been and gone, no good my trying to scold J about it, I don't know what happened and it would be meaningless to him.
Makes me realise what a lot of poor parents of ADHD kids go through here. They are constantly given this sort of thing at school, at the end of the day or in notes back home... thankfully I am largely spared it. Oh no, shouldn't say that, it will be famous last words...

 

[InsaneCdn]

Now, now. Guess what? THAT is what parents EVERYWHERE go through when they have kids that are a bit different. I'm going to guess that every single parent on this board has heard some varition of "your child is difficult", probably a million times over.

 

[SuZir]

"We had a bit more difficult day today."

Yeah, heard that one time or two. I often wondered, but never asked, how every day could be 'more difficult.' Logically it should had been a normal day, not 'more difficult' when it was same thing everyday.

I just hated picking him up. Luckily they usually didn't say that in front of him, only if the day had been really bad and they wanted him to explain something to me himself. Same thing at school. When he got detention he had to call himself and tell what and why but other bad news was mostly told without him present. And when there were meetings with difficult child present they at least tried to be little more positive.

I'm sorry they were rather unprofessional with it. Even if a kid is made to tell about a bad day to parents or listen when teacher/carer tells it should not be with that kind of agitation.

 

[Bluenose]

Heard it many times in in Grades Primary and One. Gosh, I remember those days. Don't miss them at all. (((Hugs))) It's a hard road...but keep venting here, it helps.

 

[Marguerite]

I know it's difficult for you in France, Malika. You have a lot to teach them, I would go carefully but proactively. Perhaps introduce a communication book, and also ask them to not talk about him like this, in front of him. He needs positive reinforcement, not negativity. if he's having a bad day, piling on te negativitywill not help him. Instead, ask them to work on redirection, then praise when they catch him doing something good.

The feedback in itself was actually really good. You're not meant to apologise for your kid (even if you feel that's what they want from you). Retrain the staff to your measure. Instead of feeling like you should apologise, go into "I'm with you on the professional team" mode. Walk through their day with them (out of earshot of J). Thank them for the feedback (no matter how you feel about their motives). Let them know if there are any possible factors you can think of. Ask them what he ate today, in case there are some possible dietary factors to consider such as caffeine intake - sometimes our kids get caffeine when they shouldn't, people feed their kids cola drinks and coffee, or energy bars, and it can be enough to set them off. difficult child 1 used to also react to oranges and orange juice. Ask them about distraction factors, ask them what they think works and what they think does not. Show respect for their professionalism (even if you feel they're being unprofessional) and you will have a greater chance of engaging them in doing what you need them to try, for J.

And I'm sorry to tell you, it does get worse. But then it gets better.

Marg

 

[DammitJanet]

I realize you arent US but you might try to educate with this. It is something that has been in the archives forever. Insert ADHD for ODD.

http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/f13/classroom-teacher-modifications-odd-633/#ixzz2DauWMfZV

 

[Malika]

Thanks, that's useful, Janet. In fact I don't need to substitute ADHD for ODD - I think ODD works for J
Yesterday was an exceptionally windy day and I think that had something to do with J's "difficult" behaviour. There is a theory that wind makes children excitable and restless and I've seen it before in J. In his own words "There was lots of wind and I was running about trying to fly. I flew to the moon..."
I don't mean to brush aside good advice but I'm not really able to give these people specific instructions about J. The culture is just against it... they would see me as nothing more than a pain, I think, a neurotic mother who is trying to tell them what to do. If it came from a professional, though...

 

[buddy]

People here don't love it when you have to educate them either. Sometimes I think its hard because they consider themselves trained experts. Really, I've called non IEP meetings where I've brought a handout about Quin's brain injury and I to this day remind people to never talk in front of him. That was an adult out of control, lost her patience and took it out on J. Those kinds of things have altered many a child's self esteem so whether or not their receptive, it will need to be done I imagine. If she was new to him that could have been a big issue ....but sounds like she knew him.
The whole argument that he has done better before urks me .....Ive heard that so much over the years. They need to know that it takes a slew of things going well that day, plus a ton of effort, for any of those better days to happen.
If nothing else, using a notebook to go back and forth would be better than shaming J like that! SHAME ON THAT WORKER!

Hugs, Malika, it is a very familiar dilemma. I feel for you, for sure.

 

[susiestar]

I would be VERY hesitant to introduce the term ODD in reference to J. France seems to be stuck in the thought that kids choose to behave in ways that are not what is expected/desired of them, rather than to have reached the conclusion that kids do well when they can. Giving them something that pretty much says that he is doing this because he wants to will backfire hugely. Of course I know and you know that ODD isn't just a simple choice a child makes. I don't think that this is widely recognized in France. Simply having the terms oppositional and defiant applied to J will likely gain a LOT of backlash etc..

Please change ODD to ADHD.

As for why the worker did what she did? She gets power from it. It wasn't done to help J or you. It was done to show how wonderful she is to have dealt with this child that you are 'always' "allowing" to misbehave and how put upon she is by him and how wonderful she is to tolerate having him in her presence. It serves no useful purpose other than to make herself feel like a bigger and better person by making both you and J feel bad.

I hope tomorrow is a better day. I would follow Marg's suggestions because they stand the best chance to forge a working relationship with the child minder(s)

 

[DDD]

It's par for the course. There's really no use in trying to explain. Most of us have been there done that. Terms and explanations are of no use because a disruptive child is a disruptive child and it makes the day harder for the adults. Sigh.

I don't think anyone has "the" answer. Personally I just forced myself to keep a pleasant look on my face before saying in response "thank you so much for sharing with me and I do hope all of you have a much better day tomorrow". Period. I did not want to give the adults the satisfaction of causing me grief or my difficult child grief. Guess I have a little difficult child in me too. DDD

 

[Malika]

It's par for the course. There's really no use in trying to explain. Most of us have been there done that. Terms and explanations are of no use because a disruptive child is a disruptive child and it makes the day harder for the adults. Sigh.

Well, yes, DDD but isn't an enlightened approach to difference trying to understand it at least to some extent, rather than just blame it? Particularly where children are concerned.... Don't get me wrong, I have frequently and shamefully failed in my own approach to J's difficultness, even though I know he doesn't do most of it on purpose at all. It is extremely aggravating and trying at times. But still... we're all supposed to be trying to accommodate the child.
And no, susiestar, I don't use the ODD label at all with J not even to myself, even though he would certainly fit the criteria for that. Don't know why, it just stopped seeming useful or real to me at a certain point.
Special needs kids are really difficult. There's really no doubt about that. But there are ways to make it better - positive reinforcement is good, and shaming and blaming doesn't work. I've got that far anyway.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Back when difficult child was in grade school and had a particularly difficult teacher... one day she complained to me about what a bad day she had because of my "difficult child". I just smiled sweetly and said: "Welcome to MY world." And her chin dropped. She'd never considered the possibility that he wasn't just being difficult to give HER a bad day.

 

[SuZir]

Back when difficult child was in grade school and had a particularly difficult teacher... one day she complained to me about what a bad day she had because of my "difficult child". I just smiled sweetly and said: "Welcome to MY world." And her chin dropped. She'd never considered the possibility that he wasn't just being difficult to give HER a bad day.

This is so true. Very often the attitude of teachers and providers is: your child is difficult and disruptive to me, fix it. Do they really think, that we just enjoy so much about our kids being difficult and disruptive that we just for the sheer joy of it decline to push that button at our difficult children' necks that would make them 'normal' and easy and delightful PCs?

That kind of reminds me of my difficult child when he was three. When easy child was fussing, difficult child with exact same tone as all those adults later, told me to sing easy child a 'lulla lulla' (his name for a lullaby I used to sing them often.) He did expect that to make easy child to just stop fussing and go to sleep. Totally understandable logic when you are difficult child and all three long years old. Little bit odd, when you have your masters in early education and you are 35 years old.

 

[DDD]

Of course an enlightened approach is great. The problem is that your difficult child is 1 child and the curriculum is set for the group of children in the class. Each of us in the CD family has 1 child who is uniquely different from the majority of children in the class, in the neighborhood, in the biological family and in outside activities. Some Moms have multiple special needs kids with extremely different requirements. It's a difficult and painful path.

I am not trying to discourage you in your parenting efforts. I admire how open you have been to suggestions and support from many caring CD family members. Perhaps you school years with J will be wonderful. on the other hand as you have read many times from many different Moms it is unlikely that the educators will want to be educated by a parent. Hugs DDD

 

[InsaneCdn]

DDD... I DID find ways to educate educators... but it always involved a third party. We had a really great child-psychiatric NP working with us for a few years. I'd explain to him what I was seeing... and then HE would meet with the teacher(s) and... things changed.

 

[DDD]

Really that's awesome. Truthfully I was never able to access the outside help that my difficult children needed for interventions. on the other hand one Austrailian Psychologist literally saved GFGmom when he moved to Miami and opened a small private school with very different teaching methods and a very positive environment. The difficult child boys were greatly impacted by an great older psychiatrist I found in Tampa ten years ago. Finding help is a challenge and I'm glad you had success. DDD

 

[TerryJ2]

She sounds like a jerk.
Sorry, just had to say that.
You are doing a great job, Malika. I know it's hard to be patient and to educate people who should already be educated.
You've got a long path ahead of you. Who knew that we would all end up being teachers?

DDD, that psychiatric who moved to Miami sounds great!

 

[InsaneCdn]

We didn't get to keep him. He retired. And then we moved....
Nothing is ever simple in GFGland.

 

[DDD]

Terry the man was a Godsend. He used color coded phonics to teach reading and an abacus (sp?) for math. Most of all he understood difficult children. I literally sold my house and used the equity to get GFGmom into his private school and even though she is still a PIA...she's independent as an adult.

Funny story. Two years ago I knew GFGmom's little girl was struggling in elementary and decided to see if I could find a book using the man's methods. The funny thing is that I truly forgot that I am old and he was twenty years older than I. Using the internet I typed in Bannatyne with ?? "education" or "school" and lo and behold it showed up with a site. Of course I finally realized that he is likely in heaven now and repledged to myself not to get involved in the cause of the youngest difficult child. BUT he sure helped my family. DDD

 

[confuzzled]

i think "he was difficult" means absolutely nothing and gives you absolutely nothing to work with.

the better question is, he was difficult how and what specifically was happening while he was being so difficult?

maybe they are missing the big picture....for all you know, there was something miniscule that changed in the routine that affected his behavior, maybe he was sitting though a boring/hard/too easy lesson and there were more interesting things happening, maybe his behavior only is difficult after recess or at the childminder when its the long part of the day.

and then ask him the same question (leaving out the difficult part). matter of factually ask why did he (whatever) when the teacher asked him to do (whatever).

i'd bet one of the two questions gets you a pretty accurate assessment of the why, and if i was a betting woman, i'll go with J's answer.

that all being said, if i understand it right that part of his perceived difficultness was that he was running around flapping his arms in the wind pretending to fly.....

that sounds like a pretty insightful, self explanatory answer from any 6 year old.

have you had his IQ tested yet? i still think he sounds VERY bright with perhaps some underlying learning difficulties or impluse control issues--some kids are different types of learners that need to be more engaged rather than learn by drill and practice....and high intelligence can often look very adhd like. he may be the perfect angel when he's say, doing a cooking experiment to that is fun that is actually teaching measurements, following directions, etc vs a squirmy mess sitting at a desk looking at a blackboard full of equations with a teacher droning on and on.

and i still think that culture or not, they seem to have incredibly high expectations of young children...while the education system might be different in france, kids are all the same, and it seems to me that some of what is expected is almost developmentally impossible.

but yeah, hugs. we ALL dread that "difficult" conversation-no matter what country we live in.