I'm so discouraged...

[therese005us]

Hi everyone

thanks for your suggestions, apologies and care.

I haven't been posting in response to your posts..it's all been too hard. I'm still in a hard place, depths of despair and all that....
I'm just going with the flow... trying to keep afloat and keep him motivated.
He had an interview with Woolies on Friday (I think it was Friday) and they were very positive. Just a few things to check out, and he will hopefully start next week. He'll hear something on Thursday. I'm hoping it will be successful. However, I am also worrying whether it will work out. If it doesn't I don't know where to go from here; if he blows it I don't think I can help him anymore than I have already. It will be his own fault, attitude, whatever!
He is doing work experience at another place at the moment (he's been twice) which is probably a bit rougher. Wouldn't be surprised at the company he's keeping. I know it's all around, and addicts will gravitate to addicts... Even out here in the remote places. guess I'm hoping that once he's working fulltime he'll be too busy to hang with those people.

It is hard to find workplaces out here, we're 45km from the next major town and he doesn't have a driving license yet.

Saturday was awful. I had to get him up early for his appointment with the psychologist. Then we argued about him going to his mate's and staying over (A family I know and trust); because he hadn't pre arranged it, and we get to town really early (8.00am) so I consider it rude to turn up unannounced. I didn't really want to drive into town on Sudnay and suggested he stay as late as he wanted to and I'd pick him up from the train station later. He said he didn't want to catch the train. When I asked him how he thought he'd get home Sunday, he said by train!
Then he went on about how controlling I am and he was going to get the psychologist to find him somewhere else to live...what about your apprenticeship/job? he replied he'd find another. More was said, I can't remember, then the phone rang. It was the psychologist returning my call... timely. I stuttered, 'well, actually, I'm not sure if W wants to keep his appointment today, more for something to say than anything else. So I started to hand him the phone, and asked him, w, are you going to your appointment today?" To which he replied, no. Told DS that it suited the Psychologist that he didn't keep the appointment.
Psychologist said to ring him back in 15 mins as he wanted to talk to me.
I did, and sort of broke down and told him what an awful week I've had. He said W hadn't told him about previous diagnosis of ADHD, etc. etc. and he thought he was treating him for drug induced psychosis. Said he'd like to see W keep his appoitnment and would I drop in any previous medical history before that.
Rest of weekend is a blur. However, suspected DS got something when a mate 'just happened to drop down the road' (you'd laugh at what he told DD12, even she didnt' believe it!)
today dropped DS off to work at 7am then set about cleaning the van. It was putrid! Looking for something... I knew it was there all the time.. Found it inside a hired DVD case and promptly put it in the fire. I wonder what the video shop would do if they found it?
When I picked Ds19 up, asked him for his board money... and asked him for $50 extra $10 for his medication and $40 for cleaning his van. He objected, of course, but I explained since he hadn't cleaned it to my satisfaction when i asked last week, I had to do it myself. He accused me of 'scamming money of me'. too bad.
Later, he wanted to go out with his mate. I told him again, no going out on a weeknight/worknight, weekends are okay. He went anyway, came back in about less than an hour... Suspect?
I said straight out to him, did you get drugs and alcohol?
He admitted he got drugs the other day. where are they? He said he didn't know. He thought I probably found it when I was cleaning his van. Asked him where he hid it? Admitted DVD. You have found it haven't you? Why would I be looking in DVD cases? You're probably lying that you haven't got it anymore just to make me happy. You should n't be using that stuff. He said it makes him feel good.
Anyway, that's where we're at. He actually admitted that he got some the other day, I didn't admit that i found it and destroyed it.
He's a worry.
Yes, If I follow through and kick him out (I'd more than likely just pack his stuff and take him to a caravan park nearby so he can get to work) I will lay awake worrying he's on the streets drinking and drugging.
Actually, I have no legal obligation to care for him as he ceased being in foster care at 18 years. It's a moral obligation I feel, because I've been his mother for so long.
Maybe I'm unrealistic (I know I am) but I think if I can 'control' a little of his destiny, he'll come good. If I keep believing in him, and helping him, he will stop doing all this stupid stuff and grow up.
Underneath, I know I'm probably barking up a tree for fun. He's never going to mature to his yearrs, he is always going to gravitate to trouble, he's a class manipulator. He doesn't have 'mates' he has people willing to help him for aprice. Probably this 'mate' charged him about $20 to drive here and then back again with the 'stuff' plus more than what it was worth so he's probably profited well! Same with alcohol. We're sure he paid this 'mate' to get alcohol and DS drank it before coming back into the property but we (daughter and I ) are not going to dig through the grass for the empty cans to prove it.

I think I will contact ALanon and the Narcotics equivalent if we have one in the area, it might help to have that added support. The Job Services lady is a Salvo Officer, she'll probably have some contacts I could speak to. I hope to get on to her tomorrow.

daughter and I are really stressed at present. She because I am, and because Cherub is so fulltime as well.
Perhaps we'll go to church without him this weekend and spend Monday there as well. what he gets up to while we're gone, I don't know. Maybe my friend (mother of son he likes) would let him stay over. We do need some time out.

I wish it was Thursday already, then we'd know if he is starting work next week.

That's where I am at.

 

[DammitJanet]

Trish...what kinds of drugs is your son doing? I somehow get the feeling that maybe things are a bit different in Australia than they are in the US. Is the drinking age lower there? He seems able to go into pubs to buy beer and alcohol with no problem.

It would almost be absurd for us to tell someone in the Netherlands that their child or adult child had a problem if they visited the "smoking dens" that are rampant in that part of the world. Same with the opium dens in Turkey. It is just part of their culture. May not be our culture or our idea of what is good for us but really not our place to say. Maybe the age for drinking is lower in Australia.

On another note, we had an awful time with entitlement with my youngest. He gave us heck for an awful long time. He got so bad for most of his teen years and it just got worse once he became an adult. We finally had to make him leave a year ago and it was the best thing we ever did for him. Not so much for us, though it has been great, but it has made him grow up by leaps and bounds. He is much happier. We have a much better relationship now. I almost hated him the last year or two. I know his dad could barely stand to look at him. Now we love having him around. Absence does make the heart grow fonder...lol.

 

[Star*]

Trish -


I want you to go back....and try this simple lesson that I was given when I first started to learn the fine art of allowing myself to allow my son become independent. Go back and read the post that you wrote to us about your sons morning and your sons interview and your son's day. And highlight ANYTHING that starts or reads I wanted, I tried, I helped, I made, I did, I wrote, I got, I ....then read get out another color and highlight all the statements that read MY SON - wanted, My son Tried, My son Helped, My son made, My son Did, My son wrote, My son got.....

then ask yourself how it is possible for a man of any year to grow up if YOU are living both your life and his life for him vicariously.

The fact is -

He can't, He won't, He'll never, He isn't, He'll stop -

And yes, I cried too, because I felt no one would understand that IF I DID NOT DO IT FOR HIM - it would never get done.....and he would fail - over and over...and over, and it would make MY LIFE - harder and harder and harder.

But yesterday - for one of the first times in my sons life - and mine - I got a call and a short visit. Not an all together pleasant one because he had to sell his car to keep himself out of jail and that in itself presents a whole new batch of problems - but their HIS problems to work out and if he's got his own problems to work out? I think it will keep him occupied with solving things and hopefully out of trouble. And so I pray....hard....and I bit my lip when he came in the house and said:

I have probation on Monday:
(usually this means - can I borrow cash)
I have decided this means to me - NOPE -you have a month to help yourself to raking lawns, doing menial chores, washing my car - and you've done NOTHING - go to jail. I'm done helping. He's also supposed to start back to school. The twist here was that I have done and said NOTHING for two months to help/advise/or attach myself to the problem in any way.
What I heard instead was:
I have a test to see where I will be in the class on Monday and then I have to go to probation - I have $150 from selling my car put back- and I will pay you back $150 on Friday. (I nearly fainted) I am not holding my breath, but it was a gigantic baby step in the right direction.

I spent the rest of the day - pondering ----IF I had said to him a week or so ago - "I'll help you get your probation money. or Have you registered for school? or How did the deal go with selling your car?" or helped in ANY way I wonder how it all would have worked out?" And don't think for a minute that I have not been sick wondering if he's going to jail, getting ripped off for the car deal he made, thinking he's not smart enough to do all of this on his own and needed me to help...or guide him. But at what point do you let go and say "Okay - fly."

I've been less than cordial to be around. On one hand I want to FIX things and tell everyone - HE'S NOT ABLE to do this himself....he's got problems, Don't take advantage of him....if you do I'll split your kiester...and so on and so on.....and we live out in the middle of no where too. Jobs here are harder to come by and our state is 3rd in the US for unemployment AND Dude is a convicted felon - with no car - and no education....so yeah I know it's hard. But how much harder I was asked is it going to be - when he's 20 and his Mom is doing ALL of this FOR him and he is clueless? How hard is it going to be when he can't get himself up for work? How hard is it going to be when he can't pack his own lunch?

I'm not pointing T - I'm asking because I had been pointed at and harshly by a therapist that just laid it on the line and was backed up by my fiance who was put out on his own by his parents at a very early age....(mostly because he himself was an alcoholic and extreme difficult child) so there was no mercy there either.

It's hard on a Mom - we're natural born fixers. But this is one of those things - you have to figure out where to let your kids become adults and fix themselves. And it hurts.....wow does it hurt. Especially since you've spent a lifetime defending them from the world.

I'm sending huge hugs.....but seriously - go back and do the exercise - of the I wants - it's and eye opener. Was for me. Hugs
Star

Oh and by the way - Dude was Little Lord Fauntleroy for a LONG time....

 

[Marguerite]

Legal drinking age in Australia is 18. Once you're 18 you can go into any pub or club and drink at the bar. You can go into any grog shop and spend up big.

Cigarettes - legally purchasable once you're 18. You're supposed to be asked for ID if there's any doubt because a shopkeeper selling to anyone under-age can be prosecuted.

Drugs - a problem. In our village the local (suspected) drug dealer lives across the road from the primary (elementary) school. In country towns it's a similar story (in this, we resemble a classic coastal country town). Trying to protect your kids from access to drugs - almost impossible if they want to get drugs, to stop them from getting them. I know with various family members whose kids have got into drugs, their parents were not able to prevent, and the drug influence was despite everything the parents could do, it was not due to neglect, or turning a blind eye. The drug influence comes from outside, from peers who use drugs or push them. Kids get into drugs initially, because it's the cool thing to do. Our kids aren't into sex as much as US teens (from what I gather) but the drug problems here are just as bad, if not worse. Our kids DO have sex while under age (age of consent is 16, here) but there is far less peer pressure to have promiscuous sex; most of our sexually active kids are serial monogamists.

From what I gather about DS19 - he's a social misfit, even in his own peer group. On the fringe, a bit on the outer. Using whatever money he has to buy friends, to buy favours. This often involves (with this sort of social problem) an older kid buying cigarettes & alcohol for those under-age. In turn, the under-age kids will procure other things (ie drugs). If DS19 got into drugs initially because the others were doing it, plus the supplier needed another customer (especially someone easily manipulated) well, the problem is bigger than that now. Once someone discovers that drugs make him feel more confident, be seen as more cool - they keep using. I'm certain that's what happened with my oldest sister's son who ended up doing hard time in jail for prostitution, drug possession and robbery (all to pay for his habit).

So socially, it's difficult for a parent to control the legal actions of someone under their roof who isn't breaking the law. Example - once my kids were legally old enough to drink, they could buy their own spirits and bring them home. Similarly, difficult child 1 not being allowed to have caffeinated drinks was something we could no longer enforce. As long as they didn't break the law, there really wasn't much we could do. Legally adult, legally permitted to do this. Of course, while driving OUR cars we could insist on NO alcohol intake for the previous 12 hours. Australian driving laws for provisional drivers are - NO alcohol whatsoever. They even have to be careful of cough mixture!

Our kids cannot "go for their drivers licence" until their 17th birthday. They have to have driven (with a fully licensed supervising driver) at least 150 hours (in NSW) as well as having demonstrated proficiency in a long list of driving requirements. Once they pass their test, they spend a year on red P plates (P = Provisional drivers) which requires the red P to be displayed and also limits then to below a certian speed limit. Any accidents or infringements - they lose their licence.

After a year on red Ps, they go to green Ps for the next two years. This varies from state to state and constantly gets stricter.

No P-plate driver can have ANY alcohol in their system and we have random breathalyser patrols as well as mandatory testing in the event of ANY accident (even if it's not your fault).

So our novice drivers are older than in the US, by a fair bit. But our drinkers are younger. Sex is less a problem, drugs are just as bad if not more so. Binge drinking under-age is a huge problem, especially when old-enough 'friends' buy the alcohol for their young friends outside. it's also a way for an over-age drinker to afford more alcohol - a 16 year old will wait on the street corner and say, "I'll give you fifty bucks to buy me a slab of beer, you can keep the change." Some idiot parents will even supply their under-age kids who are going to a party. Cops will prosecute parents they catch doing this, they're clamping down increasingly.

Does that help flesh out some of the differences for you? Trish's son is unfortunately fairly typical of Aussie problem teens.

Marg

 

[therese005us]

Thanks Marg for that thorough response. I'm absolutely in no fit state to respond at the moment.... too emotional.
Some of the responses I am finding very helpful, some are confronting and very close to the truth - some are a little far from the mark too; I know you are all meaning well. Our cultural differences are that, very different, and you do seem to have more resourcees available than we do here in OZ, or perhaps I don't know yet how to access some of mine, especially being in a remote place.

Today the Job Services Counsellor called me. She's been trying for several days. It was urgent. And sad.

She has come to the conclusion, from reviewing her file, talking to DS19, and also to me on Friday with him, that he is not going to be suited to the apprenticeship; and in fact, probably unsuited to most workplaces due to his disability. She has spoken to the employer where he is currently doing work experience, and without even having anything disclosed, he had questions, 'is he mentally disabled?' Of course, she was not at liberty to disclose, and simply said, 'he has issues'. It followe dthat the boss told her that he was too slow, had no initiative, couldn't follow through on a simple task etc. etc. The list was long. He wouldn't be offering him any employment, least of all an apprenticeship.


So, she wants me to come in as soon as possible and have DS transferred to Disability services for review, put him on benefits, andn look at options of sheltered work, training, group home (way down the track) and sorry, but you're going to be stuck with him a while yet.

She has some suggestions, that I am to have control of his money, save for a little pocket money. he could still work some hours per fortnight, but the stress would be off for searaching for work. I protested, if he has this big allowance, he's going to blow it all on D & A. that's why she wants me to have control of the money....

Assessing him at about age 14. She termed him a Peter Pan.

So, I have been thinking and praying about it.

I have come up with this:

He pays $280 in rent a week which includes food $80; Elec $30; Rent $140; Washing/ironing $40; Petrol $40

Special trips he wants to go on are extra petrol money.

the balance (I don't know how much it is yet) has to be $SAVINGS into a fund that has our joint signatures in a separate bank account

And $spending

then what ever he earns separately he can have for his own use. He is currently earning around $100 a week at his paid job.

He should do 2-3 hours daily chores for me;
Electricity to van after 5pm only except for sundays

He should work at least 20 hours week a combination of paid and (voluntary) training work

As is currently the rule, unless otherwise negotiated, he should not go out in the evenings on a work week. Friday/Saturday/Sunday only.

He should continue with his driving lessons, and pay for one a fortnight from his own money.(we only have 100 hours in Queensland but same P rules, zero alcohol which I think is great!)

I am going to find out about whether I could get respite for him to go to a group home once a month, with a view to relocating him to one in the next 6-8 months.

The counsellor said she might be able to get him work in somewhere like Hungry Jacks, Subway or MacDonalds as a table cleaner or something. She doesn't think he would be suited to counter work.

It's all confronting, because I guess all these years I thought I was doing the right thing treating him like a 'normal' kid. did I do wrong? If I had treated him differently, perhaps he would be more amenable to the fact that he does have a disability. I tried to explain to him when he was around 14, that he was different, he did have disabilities, but he could still be a useful member of society. It backfired, when he was fifteen he told the department I told him he was spastic, and disabled (never have said that to him, of course) and that he wanted a second opinion on his medical problems. Short version - they took him away for 'respite' refused to let him come home and had him tested 'normal' took him off his medications. He was placed in a boys home. Educated on how to have safe sex, and 'cared' for by shiftworker carers. He ran away from the boys' home and ended up on the streets in 18 months. he was allowed to go out late to parties, drink alcohol, smoke etc in the boys' home (or at least not monitored) ended up in psychiatric Ward in Tasmania with psychosis. they phoned me, wondering why he wasn't on his medications...... said he could only be discharged if I agreed to take him (he had asked them to ring). He's on an Order for his medication to be administered every fortnight. I'm his official carer. I have no legal obligation, but feel a great moral one. I've been his 'mum' for 12 years. One year later, here I am.

Feel free to comment on my first draft notes that I want to take to the Counsellor.

 

[Marguerite]

Trish, "what ifs" aren't going to help you. You did what you felt was right at the time, and who knows? If you had done things differently, they may not have been any better. They may have been worse. You just don't know. What matters is how you go on from here.

From what you post here - the Job Services Counsellor saying you should have control of his money; how can this be organised? What if he refuses? Does this mean that she can order an over-ride? Or is him getting Disability going to be conditional on him giving you control? They can always recommend against him being granted Disability, I suppose. It's not an issue we had...

If this can be done, try to set up a system like we had with difficult child 1. I described it earlier. We set it up so he had to take cash out to pay us what he owed us, rather than us organising it as a direct debit. But you might need to begin with direct debit, until he gets used to a routine of sorts. The reason we did it our way (difficult child 1 withdrawing the money and bringing it to us) was to teach him personal responsiblity and independence.

The counsellor assessing him as a Peter Pan - that is what I was saying before; we cop criticism for apparently "babying" our difficult children, but sometimes they simply can't cope with the level of personal responsibility others their age handle all the time. We need, instead, to lead them into that level of responsibility a dribble at a time. Example - when difficult child 1 was 16 and first went on Disability, he had access to his bank account via card (it seems it's the only option for anyone now - difficult child 3 has his own account card, thankfully he is much more personally financially responsible than his older brother was at the same age).
So difficult child 1 was on Disability, but going to and from school each day would repeatedly check the balance on his account at the ATM. He quickly ran up the maximum monthly number of transactions and began incurring fees, purely from checking his balance obsessively. So we talked to the bank and had them overturned. Plus he had to pay us board fortnightly, after which he was allowed to spend whatever was left in his account. But if he checked his account on the in-between days (3 days out of every month) he would spend whatever was there, without thinking, "I have to wait three days until the bank transfers from my working account to the investment account."

So to begin with, to help train him, we set the computer with reminders to get him to give us his card for those three days until the transfer was done. Then we would give him his card with the reminder, "The first money you withdraw, is the $50 board you owe us. After that, you can spend what is left." What was generally left was another $50 a fortnight. Out of that he had to budget for gifts for Christmas and birthdays for family & friends, as well as anything he wanted. A lot of things he wanted cost more than $50 so he had to learn (the hard way) to leave money in his account and save up in his every day account, so eventually he could withdraw the saved balance to buy what he wanted.

Disability gets paid into a bank account. Generally it's a ready access account, the sort that a person can get at with their debit card. The payments go in on a Thursday. Sometimes it's a Friday. So if you arrange with the bank to transfer to an investment account (we used Incentive Saver) you have to be SURE that they don't try to transfer the money BEFORE the Disability has gone in. Otherwise it incurs a dishonour fee. That's why we had the three day delay. So Disability goes in (mostly) on a Thursday. Friday for transfer - too risky, in case Disability is late. So we set up transfer for Monday. We would hold the card until Tuesday afternoon, in case the bank was late to transfer (it happened a couple of times, difficult child 1 assumed all the money was his to spend freely, which he did, then incurred another dishonour fee when the bank finally tried to transfer only to find difficult child 1 had spent it all).

It took difficult child 1 several years to learn to CHECK the actual amount there, and to think, "Has the transfer happened yet?" before going hog-wild with spending.

How we set up the amount - we sat with difficult child 1 and discussed his financial obligations. We also discussed how he wanted to handle them - direct transfer to our account, or him manually withdrawing it and giving it to us. Did he trust himself enough to remember, and also to not be tempted by the pocketful of cash on his way home from the ATM?
We then allowed a moderate amount for spending money for the fortnight. How much did he think he needed? What for? He had to at least partly develop his own budget.
We then looked at how much was left, and made THAT amount, the quantity to be transferred to the investment account.
And it was the investment account (Incentive Saver, in difficult child 1's case) that we set up with multiple signatures, difficult child 1 to be mandatory signatory (so he would know that nobody could access his money without him also signing). But his signature alone would not be enough.

As a result, the Incentive Saver was getting a deposit twice a month. Interest accrued monthly as long as no withdrawal was made that month. He had to negotiate with me to get access to Incentive Saver money. I allowed it when he wanted to buy a car; when he wanted to buy an engagement ring for daughter in law; when he wanted to buy an expensive replica Star Wars light saber from a convention.

Even a very close friend was critical of the level of control we exerted over difficult child 1 and his management of his finances. But it had been Centrelink who recommended we do this, and frankly I am very glad we did it this way. It took him years longer than "normal" people, but he HAS learned and over those years we have been able to slowly ease back on the reins and let him slowly have more and more control. This year we finally knew he had made wonderful progress, when he did the bulk of the paperwork on his own tax return.

As for how you tell your child about their disability - it's a tricky one.

We told our kids (and as we tell them and other people, autism doesn't just run in our family, it gallops) that autism is simply a different way of brain function. While it does mean that some tasks can be more difficult, there are other tasks that our autistic kids find easier than most people. A kid with ADHD might be a terrible fidget, but when that kid focusses on something they love, they are able to do so to a very intense level. We taught them to accept the difficulties, to recognise that there can be different ways to do a task (instead of it being impossible) and that there are also gifts, unexpected delights that compensate.

Also, I am physically disabled. The kids see that while I can't go on a three mile hike, I can still use my brain and I have other things I can do well. I don't walk as far and I have to walk slower, which has meant I find more four-leafed clovers because I move slowly enough to see them before I move on.

Trish, I don't know if it will help, but my boys accept that they have a disability. This disability is sometimes adminstered (byvarious organisations) as an intellectual disability, and sometimes as a neurological disability. But despite it being at times called "intellectual disability" it does NOT mean they are stupid, or "retarded". Both my boys score very high in IQ scores. Between top 10% and top 0.5% of the population.

If at any time you told DS19 that he was disabled, or even if you had said he had an intellectual disability, that was NO REASON for anyone to remove him from you. WTH?

Perhaps a big part of the problem was the conflict between you trying to treat him as 'normal' so he could have the chance to blend in and do his best, and the very real problems of his own realisation that no matter how hard he tried to be normal, he simply was not able to be, he was set up for failure. This leads to anger, frustration and a need to lash out and punish whoever he can make responsible.

Despite trying to help difficult child 1 over the hurdle of "You have a disability, but it needn't be a handicap unless you choose to make it so," there were times when he also went into denial and tried to live as if there was no problem. He would pretend to take his medications, he would drink caffeinated drinks (which he knew in his case would negate his medications and also make him violent) andwould leave the room if the conversation or a TV program touched on the subject of autism, Asperger's or ADHD.

As for your draft notes for the counsellor - I would always make sure the rent you charge is a lot less than what he would have to pay anywhere else. That gets you away from any accusations of "You're just trying to make money out of me." You just have to show him how much rents are in your area, for comparison. We mostly used the extra money from difficult child 1, to pay for large lumps of protein. Teen boys eat a lot, and his board would pay for the occasional side of lamb we'd order in. I would cook in bulk and always have food available. It's amazing how much more malleable the teen males can be, when they have a full stomach!

Seriously, I would cut his rent WAY back, to half or a quarter even, of what is the usual for that level of accomodation in your area. Because you are wanting him to do chores, and those chores are part-payment of rent. Calculate the labour costs, how much it would cost you to hire someone. Remember, he is unskilled labour. If you findhe's not doing his chores, then of course he needs to pay for someone else to do them. Sometimes the someone else can be a sibling - it's amazing the hoops someone would jump through, if they're getting paid to do chores.

Or you could charge what you do for rent but give him a discount according to hours worked. It's a thought - consider it, talk to the counsellor. Frankly, do your utmost to remove the bulk of his disposable income out of his reach. Into an investment account is preferable to charging him higher rents, because the best outcome here is NOT him leaving home and being thrown in the deep end, it's him staying at home but following the rules. Then as he learns to live right, having him increasingly develop independence until he can leave home SAFELY.

Trish, I think you need to have a written contract with him. Part of the contract should include what you have drafted, part should also include your being included as someone permitted to discuss his case with tdocs etc. But you also MUST include what YOU wiull provide for him in return. It has to be two-way.

At the moment, you want him to pay board etc, to do chores, to not drink/smoke/do drugs on the premises. But he needs to see, in writing, what you will do for him in return.
Example - providing the van (roof over the head, bed to sleep in). Electricity (partly paid for in money, partly earned through chores). Transport (petrol money). Frankly at the moment, I can't see enough swinging back his way. If he instead chose to go live in a flat somewhere, he would be free to drink, smoke and do drugs as much as he wanted, free to come and go as he pleased, free to play electronic games all the time. No chores. No restrictions. Buy fast food, not bother washing clothes/body. As he sees it, he'd be better off living away from home away from all the rules.

He needs to see that he is better off at home, sufficiently better off for him to follow your rules and stay, rather than move out and not do so well.

Talk to the counsellor, see what you can work out as a draft. But Explosive Child guidelines also make this point - you have to make it obviously a two-way street. You set the rules, sure, but you also have to give something in return. Quid pro quo. You want something from him, he has to want something from you bad enough, to do what you want. And it needs to be mutually agreed.

I think your notes are a good start.

Marg

 

[DammitJanet]

Marg makes good points.

The only thing I can offer is on the breakdown of the disability payment. When my son lived here...both before he was an adult and after he was an adult....I figured his "room and board payment" out by taking the main bills for my house such as rent, utilities, taxes, insurance and added them all up together then divided them up by the number of people who lived in the house. That gave me an average amount to charge for rent. It was in the basic range of 200 to 230 a month. I also made sure he got clothes and I charged him about 50 a month to drive him around places. I kept a running tab on all other things he needed.

 

[Marguerite]

That's a point on clothes. When our kids were younger, we allowed $200 a year for ALL clothing, including shoes. We would get the basics out of this - underwwear, socks, trainers for school. Sometimes we'd bend this a bit on shoes because they ARE expensive. But after that - the kids had to buy any fashion stuff, any luxury things, for themselves. The kids learned to cultivate friendships with rich kids a size slightly larger! We also op-shopped a lot plus used the sewing machine to personalise anything. I mend, take clothes in, replace elastic, patch jeans or turn them into "sawn-offs" as needed, I've even made beach pants out of towels.

However, once the kids got to a certain age (it varies) we found they took over buying ALL their clothes. Why go out and buy more, when they already have enough?

We calculated board a bit differently. Once difficult child 1 was old enough to get Disability, a couple of other payments to me stopped. However, I also qualified for Carer Payment (or whatever Centrelink are calling it this week!). I subtracted that from board. However, some of the kids' medications are expensive, for us. The kids have to pay for their own medications out of their Disability. We do it by bank transfer, manually done online by the kids. We talk them through it until they have got the hang of it.

We modified board according to how the kids contributed in other ways. For example, while she still lived at home easy child 2/difficult child 2 would often do some shopping for us, paying for it herself. She would pick up some groceries, plus bring home fruit & vegetables she'd bought at staff discount rates where she works. We discussed this and considered this to be her board. BF2, on the other hand, wasn't in a position to do this. Plus he ate a lot while easy child 2/difficult child 2 barely made a dent in our food budget. So BF2 paid $50 a week board, most of which I used to buy meat to supplement the vegetables easy child 2/GFF2 brought home.

By not having it quite so expensive, it allowed them to save up (I could trust them to not use the extra money to go buy toys or drugs/alcohol/cigarettes) and it also encouraged them to stay where I could keep an eye on them. When they moved out, they did it with our support (not financial - we'd given therm that, with a lower board) and ongoing encouragement. We KNEW that their first electricity bill would be a rude shock - they are very wasteful of energy, especially easy child 2/difficult child 2. But we refused to help them with their first bills, they had to plan. All we would do, is talk them through developing their own budget.

Helping our difficult children work towards independence is a long process and it sometimes had me tearing my hair out. And I didn't have the drugs to worry about. We did have problems with alcohol and binge drinking, I still worry about easy child 2/difficult child 2 a bit but she's a lot better than she used to be. Still leaves a lot of room for improvement. However, she has things she HAS to save up for and as a result has had to plan more carefully.

difficult child 1 is 25. He is now married and lives with his wife in a tiny hole of an apartment. She is very responsible; he is learning to be. However, he has some odd hobbies and I have to be careful what I say about his hobbies, to a friend of mine. She resents difficult child 1 spending his Disability on his hobbies, because in her mind, it's HER hard-won taxes he is spending.

I see a lot of improvement in him, however. He is more balanced in how he spends money, he is making a lot of things he needs instead of buying the expensive stuff. He is also a lot more responsible with his cost of living expenses.

The thing is - my friend (I love her dearly, but she doesn't get it) doesn't understand that difficult child 1's buying toys when younger, was part of his learning process. We limited his money as much as we could, to keep a tight rein on what he COULD spend, and force him to learn to plan. You want to buy another light saber because you broke the last one at the movie launch? Then it will take you six weeks to save up for it and in that time you won't be able to spend money on anything else. Or you could spend SOME money on other things, but take twice as long to save up. Your choice."

Similarly - some people smoke and drink, but it's becoming increasingly expensive. Especially cigarettes, if they go to $50 a pack. Someone on Disability who is also a smoker, will really be strugglnig financially. They have to make choices.

The thing is - you don't have to make board expensive, to ensure they haven't got an excess of ready cash. Salting it away in a locked savings account is better because they know it's still their money, but only for really important things (like the bond on a flat). Watching the amount go up, is a boost to a self-esteem than can sometimes be rock-bottom.

Marg

 

[Star*]

If cigarettes go to $50.00 a pack there American - write ME - I'll sell them to you for $30.00 and SHIP them for free. (HEY DO NOT SPANK ME ON THAT - GIRL's GOT TO MAKE A LIVING) - just kidding.

Trish -

Despite you being in Aussieland and us being in North America there is one thing that transcends oceans, mountains, language barriers, skies - and that is knowing that a Mother's love is deep, caring, nurturing....and tireless. His Lordship could be 50 years old ~ He'll still be your son. It's just somewhere along the way you hope he'll find his niche in life and have some of the normalcies and dreams you wished for him when he was smaller, and eventually realize that he has dreams of his own and has been given enough wings to accomplish some of those things for himself.

When you are given a child with disabilities, there's no manual or guide, no one right way or wrong way - sometimes it's just dumb luck parenting that gets us through the worst of times. Fran often says hope for the best, but plan for the worst. That's saved me from falling apart many times with my own son's situations. Doesn't mean that I haven't fallen apart, good grief I had a stroke. It doesn't mean that I'll never fall apart again. Hopefully I won't. My wish for my family? That we've all grown up enough and detached enough to know where our personal boundaries are and respect those lines.

I want my son to be happy, I want him to have dreams and goals and I want him to do these things on his own - OH HOW I WANT THAT. lol. But Trish - you know there was a time just such a short time ago when everyone had told us there was NO way he'd ever live without us in the picture and it mortified me. I'm tired. I didn't want to have a 30 year old adult child - It was like getting ripped off all over again. I mean I never got any of the norms in the lower grades - neither did her. It just seemed so unfair - and part of my taking SO long in therapy was to deal with all of THOSE issues and the anger from THOSE issues. It took a long time to admit most of them too - I figured THAT is what a Mom does. - Swallow and deal with everything. It's not. We're human - YOU are human.

So "IF" you think I'm pointing or digging (thinking....) whatever the word is in Australia - I am. You're right. However; I'm doing it with the best of intentions as a friend who cares. BECAUSE when the things that you are going through happen to you and NO ONE says - DO YOU SEE THAT? You don't see it. And if you don't see something that needs a fix? How can you begin to heal? If you don't heal - How do things ever get any better? If things don't ever get any better? Things just stay the same. That's not what friends are for. FRIENDS tell you what they see - and take a chance that you may get angry with them, or be upset with their responses DESPITE what comes down the pike....because - THEY CARE.

IF I just poo=poo an answer to you? I wouldn't be me. I'm also not pointing AT you. I'm sitting right next to you under a Eucalyptus tree, watching kangaroos hop by and giving you a huge hug because I couldn't tell you all this stuff unless I'd been there myself.

One of the best words I've ever eliminated from my vocabulary? The word should. Live a much more decisive life now. Think of it this way - Should means: You do what you do when you do it because you think it is the BEST thing you can possibly do at that moment based on all your knowledge.
You do not do what you do when you do it because you think it is the ABSOLUTE WORST THING you can do otherwise you would not do it. So never say I should have...that only means you must have chose the absolute worst thing.

Hugs - I hope this helps. THat's all any of us here are for.....really. really.

 

[therese005us]

Star* you probably wouldn't believe this, but I object to even buying them on his behalf! I've done it once, can't remember what got into me, but I was apologising and sputtering to the shop assistant, making sure she knew they weren't mine! It's against my nature, I have never been able to do it!

Anyway, today was a better day.... see Good Morning Thursday Post....

Now for the fun bit.... I am putting together an agreement that I hope will work for a bit

With the help of job services, I have drafted an agreement plan for william.

It goes a little like this but is still a little rough yet:


$280 rent per fortnight, including:

Food $80
Rent $140
Washing/Ironing $40
Petrol $40 (for regular trips to work or training

He should save $ ??? into an investment account which is a jointly signed account - whereby he can't take out money without my signature and vice versa.

$??? left for spending , from what he earns for his own use

Any special trips outside work/training petrol is to be paid for @ 40 cents/km.

He should do jobs at home when requested (cheerfully if possible) for around 1-2 hours daily.
Electricity to van will be after 5pm on weekdays Mon - Sat, and all day Sunday.

His first reaction was horror that I want to raise the board! I'm just after his money you see.

Then I explained it. That it would be at least $280 just for rent in a flat, then he'd have to buy food etc. petrol or other means of transport to work.
He doesn't like the idea of saving in a bank, wants it in his wallet. I'll have to get some help on this one. I would like to see him save more. I told him I'd nag him about it every pay day! I'll try and get the Job Services Counsellor to help on this one.
Since he's home, I have done a fair bit of nagging, and he's saved $1000 in 11 months. That's quite an achievement for him. Trouble is, he can access the account at any time, without my knowledge (fine, it is his money) and spent it on whatever. He spent about $400 on an MP4, after his mate told him it was a good deal. Was determined he was going to get it. It came without a charger, and he has no means of downloading music unless he borrows a computer. So, really, a bit of a waste. Still, his money. He is so impulsive.

Then he said, "Well, then I don't have to do jobs then if I'm paying more board" !!! Oh, the logic of a 13 year old!!! (oh, I meant 19)
I told him he didn't get to be Lord of the Manor and do nothing! He still had to contribute as a family member.

We're still only talking about 'pre school jobs" like feeding the dog, and watering the chooks here, after all, oh, and bringing in wood to cook the his dinner and warm his bath water!!

Keep praying for me, won't you?

I still want to explore group home living for the future. But if he's going to be 'secure' for at least 6 months, that will give him time to settle into this routine, and then at home I'll try and get him to take more 'everyday' responsibility such as learning to cook a full, proper meal. Do his washing and such. He thinks pegging out washing is women's work, of course!! I bet he buys a dryer when he finally gets his own place!!

The Job Services are going to pay for 6 more lessons for his driving license, and he has to pay for six; his boots and shirts/trousers.

He has an induction day on Saturday all day and is already grumbling about wearing white shirt and black pants. I showed him in the jjob offer where it says he must - and lace up dress shoes too!!

He is still going to his work experience at the butcher's tomorrow and I must encourage him to phone his part time job and thank the boss (me too, I need to buy him flowers!! for putting up with my dear son) he has been so good to put up with him for 11 months.

Hey, he's come a long way in 11 months I guess. Did you notice my grey hair, bagged eyes, and skinny waist? Is it worth it? I think so.

 

[Marguerite]

OK, Trish, here's a few suggested additions:

1) His rent is a lot less than it would be outside. The lowered rent is because he will be doing some chores in lieu of the extra rent. In other words - he IS getting paid to do the chores. Because if HE doesn't do them, you have to pay someone else to do them and it gets added on to his rent.

2) Take him to a financial adviser at the bank. Make a special appointment for this. Prime the financial adviser ahead of time if you can, you want things explained as to a little child, with charts, etc. What you want - for the financial adviser to explain to DS19 just why investing is a good thing because he will get more money in the long run. Money in your pocket gets spent. He can still have enough to get by on, but having too much money in his pocket - that money is not working for him in his pocket; in fact it risks getting lost or wasted. Tell him that he can always re-negotiate the amounts, if he feels it's not working. But he has to give it a fair trial.
The thing with most good, high-interest investment accounts - they pay a higher rate of interest if you pay money in and don't withdraw any, each month. If the financial adviser works the figures for him and shows him how much money he can have in, say, six months of paying in $50 a month vs having $50 a month extra in his wallet - that might do the trick. It did with difficult child 1.

Your aim is to reduce his ready cash. The reason being, too much ready cash makes it too possible for him to splurge on drugs etc and to NOT learn how to manage his money. He needs to learn to make choices. Too much money = no need to choose, he can always buy both.

As for him learning to do "women's work" - he's not gay, is he? Because if he ever expects to have a long-term loving relationship with a woman, he needs to learn that the best foreplay is taking out the garbage and hanging up the washing!

("women's work", indeed...)

Marg

 

[therese005us]

Thanks Marg,
great ideas about the financial advisor - then it's not coming from me, either! I'll just wait till I have confirmation of his first paycheck. It has to go directly to a bank account, and I think it will be the one Woolies nominates.
I thought I get a rise from on the women's work! I told him it was a man's work to fix the fence! he wasn't so impressed.

I've drafted up an agreement, and I have a few tricky ideas too.
I was worried about him drinking etc while I was away this weekend, since he put his form in late for the dole, he isn't expecting the money on time, so...... i transferred it out and in so it won't go back now till sunday night... I feel a bit guilty, but I haven't stolen it or anything, it's just gone into his other account for a day or two.

Organised my husband (separated for 2 years) to take a weekend at babysitting him... it's not as if he has done much for him the past 12 years!