Im thinking I need to make a contract for Buck to live here

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by DammitJanet, Mar 4, 2013.

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  1. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Star once told me that when I let Cory come back here I should get a contract with him before he ever moved in about what the rules would be and I didnt and it was a huge mistake. I think I should take her advice with Buck too. Of course he is already here too so it may be a bit too late but I think I will simply tell him if he doesnt sign it he can hit the road. I will do this contract when Tony is at work so it isnt an issue. I have put rules onto paper before but it was never signed.

    One thing I do know is I simply cannot do is handle having him here more than the 4 months it will take to hear from disability. They have told him he will hear from them with a decision by 4 months one way or another. That is the norm for the first decision. Now I know first decisions are normally turned down but he does have a slightly better chance of getting it because he is over 50, never graduated HS, always worked menial low class jobs and the chances of training him to do something else are pretty much nil. That gives him a slightly leg up on other people even though his disabilities arent all that bad.

    I am trying to insist he apply for jobs anyway because disability isnt a sure thing. You really cant count your eggs before they are hatched. I mean if he doesnt get it what is he going to do? Expect to sit here until the entire appeal process goes through? I will never allow that. Already Keyana is upset because she doesnt have her room. She said something to me on the way home last night about how we might not have room for her soon and she would be squeezed out! No way baby. He will go first. See he is staying in her room.

    He is also slacking off on doing the dishes. I am having a plumbing issue under my kitchen sink and he is making absolutely no effort to figure it out. He swears he has worked so much in construction and built all these houses and he cant look under a sink and figure out why a pipe is leaking? We have a bucket under there and empty it when it gets full. How hard is that? He cant figure that out. He just lets the water get all over the floor and sit there. My entire subflooring in the kitchen is going to have to be replaced now because he is just letting it sit there. We will be lucky if someone doesnt fall through the floor now.

    I saw a sign up a really good fast food restaurant last night called Cookout. Its a big step up from Burger King where he last worked and he bragged up working there. I later found out he only worked there for 3 months! Cookout pays very well for fast food. I told him the hours to apply and he basically blew me off. Said something about...well he had eaten there once or twice, didnt know if he wanted to work at one. WHAT? How about working anywhere.

    I think I am going to have to make a contract where he agrees to not use his dremel past 11 pm because it keeps Billy awake at night, he will talk to all members of the family with respect, he will be in his room by 11, he will clean the kitchen each night, he will help me with whatever chores I ask him to do, he will look for work 2 days a week and bring us signed proof from the places he applies.

    Think about other things and add to my list.
  2. buddy

    buddy New Member

    But Janet, he's not your kid
    You've got nothing to teach him.

    I fear you'll put all the effort in and then have more frustration when none of it works out. I worry you're setting yourself up for more stress. They don't show you enough respect for it to work and there really is no consequence to him if he refuses. There will be neg consequenses to you though. You'll get frustrated, ruminate on how disgusting he's acting and get hurt by Tony not backing you up.
    I know I sound like it's hopeless, but just mho, nothing you do will change him. You somehow have to figure out how to deal with what is now. He seemed to respond to time limits. Tell him when he can and can't be there. That's it. Only if Tony's home and not even all of that time if possible.

    To get by.....maybe Just use post it notes for your directions daily ( put on the washer / dryer or fridge, or counter) to back up the verbal directions you give for the day ( like dont touch that meat it's for a recipe tomorrow) so he can't say you didn't tell him. Take a phone picture to show Tony if B says you didn't tell him.

    I could be totally wrong but it seems he has the opposite of a desire to follow any request from you. He'd love an opportunity to further frustrate you.

    Ignore me if I'm wrong. I just don't want him to get one more ounce of your energy.
  3. StressedM0mma

    StressedM0mma Active Member

    Oh Janet, you have such patience. I think I would have tossed him out by now. But, like Buddy said, he is not your child!! He needs to go out and get a job. (Wish I had some idea on how to make that happen for you!) I am sorry that he is causing you so much stress. But, I agree with all the things Buddy said. Just start putting notes up. I hope he hears from disability sooner rather than later.
  4. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    Janet, that's a good idea but I think you need to give him a firm deadline too and make sure he knows you mean it. Six weeks? Eight weeks? However long you think you can stand being around him without throttling him! Give him a firm date, like April 30th, and let him know in no uncertain terms, that on this date, one way or another, he WILL be out of your house! By this date he MUST be providing for himself financially and living on his own. And since the disability is NOT a sure thing, he darn well better be out there looking for some kind of a job! That gives him plenty of time. And on April 30th (or whenever) one way or another, he will be living on his own and financially independent. Whether he has a job and a place to live or he ends up sleeping behind a dumpster or in his car ... entirely up to him! Enough is enough.
  5. dstc_99

    dstc_99 Well-Known Member

    Honestly Janet I also think it is a waste of time. It sounds to me like everything you ask Buck to do is done wrong. It probably takes more time and money to clean up after him and his chores than he is worth. I would set down with Tony and Buck and let them know that the day they hear back about benefits is the day he moves out. No guestions asked and no ifs ands or buts about it.

    Until then I would get Tony on your side and insist on a 11pm-8am cut off for noises and roaming the house. You can stay home and you can head to a bathroom but you cannot sit in the living room you can stay in your room. Tell him to treat his room like a hotel room. I would even consider putting a lock on the fridge so he can't get in and eat things you dont want him to. I would also tell him his storage needs to be kept in his room or in a storage facility so that he cant blame his things going missing on anyone.

    I know physically you are not able to handle the work but honestly it sounds like cleaning up the trash after dogs, cleaning up water after he makes a mess, and cleaning up after his dish washing attempts just cause added stress and work for you.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
  6. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    You all are right. Contract wont work. Its not like he is even my adult kid. Thats what really kills me. Tony wouldnt blink an eye at setting limits on Cory. He cant seem to even consider it with Buck. I keep trying to ask him what the difference is and he cant explain it to me. Or cant explain it to me in anyway that makes sense. His answer that Buck is an adult covers Cory too. Cory even has more...he has a family to take care of...Buck is a single man who has done this to himself because of choices he has made his entire life.

    I think my only recourse is to keep up my way of dealing with him. I am not taking anymore BS from him. I am calling him on every little stupid thing he does. This morning he is up at the time to take Abby out to her chain. Instead of doing that, he lets Buddy out and leaves her in her crate in the house. I got up and saw her still in her crate. When I came in from taking her out I came in and he was back in his position on the chair. I asked him why he didnt take her out and he claimed he didnt think he could handle taking her to the chain which is bs. He just didnt want to get off his butt and go outside into the cold. I told him we have two leashes in the house. He said. Oh. I told him I know you know where one is because you move it every time you turn the dryer on. It is sitting right on top of the dryer.

    I need to get on him about how he jumped into the shower while Billy was getting his stuff ready to get into it. Billy had put his towel in there, his underwear and he had gone to get a bottle of his prescription shampoo out of his bedroom and while he did that, Buck jumped into the bathroom to take a shower before Billy could get back in there. That meant he got to use all the hot water. He knew Billy was about to get in. He is simply rude. If he needed to take a shower this morning, he was up from 5 am, he could have done it then.

    I have already told him if he ever talks to me like he did the other night he will be gone and I have told Tony that he will not be here after that 4 months is up...or his decision comes on the disability. The first one. He will not be here waiting for the appeal. I wont allow him to be here much past the end of that, if it goes that long. It will be warm then and he can find somewhere to go.
  7. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    I'd have been more creative on the shower usage. Like... you could have just turned off the hot-water-tank outlet... and let him finish with cold water.
  8. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    No contract. IF he signed it, it wouldn't be worth the ink in his signature. his word means NOTHING.

    Turning the hot water off is an excellent idea when he pulls that stunt. Pepper spray might change the meaning of the word shower, but I bet he woulnd't try it again. I would be hard pressed to NOT go in, open the curtain and pepper spray him and then turn off the water completely for a while.

    The water under the sink should be dumped inside his car or on his belongings (outside your home) if he cannot empty it. Garbage should be piled on his chair, and if he tosses it on the floor, get rid of the chair.

    Lock up the fridge. if nothing else, put an alarm on it like the ones you can find at the dollar store. Or get a personal alarm there o have Billy bring you one from Radio Shack. Use it to wake him up while he is on his throne. Get yourself some earplugs so it doesn't bother you and set it off anytime you want him to move.

    Did you know that noises can be considered torture if done right? You want a sound he does NOT like and you want to blast him with it at irregular times for irregular amounts of time. Again, earplugs for you. You can find all sorts of sound effects online, and many people object to certain things. Opera and gregorian chants are like nails on a chalkboard to many people. Esp at LOUD volumes. I would experiment, maybe even with the delightful serenades of cats in heat or other awful things. Google can be a beautiful tool. For yourself? I would have headphones for my tv show/audiobook/music, whatever, and some of those big shooters earmuffs to go over them. If he doesn't like it, he can go live somewhere else, can't he? Of course you don't do it when Tony is home. I would even skip it when Billy is home. When Buck whines to Tony, pretend you don't have a CLUE what he is talking about.

    Maybe an investment in one of those 'energy saving' devices that turn things off periodically and has a remote control would be good on the tv Buck watches? Turn it off when he wants it on. Use duct tape to fasten it to the tv and make sure he knows he will be arrested for vandalism if he touches it in any way or it breaks 'somehow'?

    Most fridges can have a chain looped around it.

    What things does Buck truly LIKE? What does he seem to HATE?

    Janet, please don't stop venting here. I make a lot of suggestions, but I don't expect you to do them. Of course I will support you if you do, but I won't penalize you for not doing any of them. They are IDEAS for ways you can empower yourself and depower him.

    We are NOT sick of hearing about this. we are concerned about you, but we love you, so deal with it. If my suggestions, or seeing them take place in your imagination, makes you smile then they are words well sent. Imagine Buck running around with pepperspray all over trying to find the hose? You, of course had just been woken up from a sound sleep and thought here was an intruder in your bathroom. Given the medications, strange things can happen once in a while and you ONLY peppersprayed him because you thought he had broken in. The water is off? How did that happen? I did? No I didn't. Really, I did? Must be the medications making me forget. Maybe Buck sliipped me something?

    that is how I would play it, lol.

    anyway, (((((hugs)))))
  9. Calamity Jane

    Calamity Jane Well-Known Member

    If the contract makes you feel better, I would do it under one condition: that Tony presents it to him, or that you present it to Buck in Tony's presence. Otherwise, I fear that it will be a huge waste of time. It may be a waste of time anyway, but perhaps if it is sanctioned by Tony....who knows??
  10. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Now doing little irritating things is what I am now consoling myself with. Sad isnt it? LOL. Im in the process of trying to find a time of night when he is actually asleep so I can get outside and remove his license plate. Down here if your license plate gets stolen you have to pay for a completely new plate. I might want to think about waiting a bit though. His renewal may be coming up soon so it wouldnt pay off. Better to do it right

    The TV he is using in his room is one of mine so I might go in there the next time he is gone and "break" it. Oops. Well actually all I need to do is turn off the cable to that room. I can get Billy to figure out how to put a splitter in the line going to that room and just undo that line now. We can redo it later when Keyana goes back in it.

    One thing that I think may have a huge impact on Tony in a way nothing else will, obviously not even me is something Keyana said to me on her way home last night. She has been very clingy with us since she came home and she is really sort of worried about her place back with us. I think being away from us was extremely traumatic for her. She keeps wanting us to reassure her that we arent going anywhere and she is still our princess. She needs desperately to know we still want her. Well last night she said that she was worried that she was going to get squeezed out of our house too. I asked her what she meant. She said that all the bedrooms were full now and if McKenzie gets any bigger she will be too big to sleep in the big bed (our king sized bed) with her and Papa and we might make Keyana go sleep out on the couch. Oh break my heart. See the weekend McKenzie spent the night on Friday night and both girls slept in the big bed with Tony while I slept in my hospital bed. We were all in my master bedroom. Yeah I have a big bedroom.

    So when Keyana said she felt like she was being squeezed out of our house, I told her there was no way on earth she would ever been squeezed out. She said but Uncle Buck has my bedroom. I told her, no he is just borrowing it for a little while because he is looking for a place to live, it wont be long before he is gone. She seemed okay with that.

    I came home and told Tony what she said and he was shocked. I told him we cant have her feeling that way and he agreed. He said no, that is her room and if he has to go then that is it. She is first here. (Yay!) If anyone can get Tony moving its the grandchildren.
  11. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Keep poking at Tony with the grandkids bit. I know he would do anything for Keyana and Kenzie.

    I agree though, a contract is only as good as the signature on it, and, well... Buck needs to (ahem) buck off, if you get my drift. I've never met him and I want to throttle him.
  12. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Well, at least you have Tony's number on this one... grandkid leverage... and you didn't even put words in her mouth!
  13. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Wow we lost a ton of messages yesterday. My entire post on siblings and everything posted from this one down. Sigh....thats a lot of stuff that I cant even
  14. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Janet, I posted a lengthy response to your recent post yesterday and when I went to send it, is when the server crashed. I am so sorry you are going through all of this with Buck and Tony. I can see how much this is hurting you. Just as an aside, from my own recent experience with a year long recovery group for codependency............... Tony's behavior of the last few years, where he is angry at your disabilities and now at you for your response to Buck's invasion of your sounds so much like what I listened to in my classes and groups............codependents feel responsible for everyone and feel an enormous burden of that responsibility that they in fact, choose themselves. It appears that the resentments Tony feels for his perceived sense of responsibility is growing daily and another common response is to be very judgmental and blaming. He can't see that he has locked himself in a tight box with his own beliefs about his responsibility and his angers, resentments and negative feelings are coming out full force now. Without him being able to see his part in it, his own choices to continue this behavior with Buck, the angers and blame will continue. To me, it looks like you are the scapegoat for his rage and without getting any professional help or him waking up and seeing what his own choices have brought to him, this will all blow up. It feels as if you are living in a pressure cooker which will blow up at any minute.

    The only advice I can offer is to make an attempt, without your own angers and resentments, to have a conversation with Tony where you let him know that you understand how incredibly difficult this is for him, to be the guy who has to take care of everyone. How much pressure that is for him financially and emotionally, how angry he must be to be that guy who feels this responsibility. I am not saying that you should say he is right and you are wrong, that is not what I mean. I believe that in the big picture Tony is acting horribly to you and you do not deserve that. What I am saying is that sometimes when one person lays down their arms, their weapons so to speak, and is compassionate and understanding without all the blame and judgement and hurt, the other person can then feel free to tell the truth, to in essence, collapse the staunch role and armor they have around them, and admit to what is really going on. Once someone can be honest with themselves about all those resentments and angers, sometimes an opening can occur where the truth is finally recognized and then solutions, real solutions can come out of it. It's hard to do because you have your own ammunition, your own resentments about how you've been treated and what a jerk Buck is.............but sometimes if we can just put it all aside, show the other compassion and understanding, they can admit to what is really going on and then you have the beginning of real options. I don't know if that will work, I don't know how cemented everyone is in their thinking, you may need a third party to untangle all of this. You may need to make different choices and separate at some point, I don't know. But, if you can sit down and create an opening for Tony to step into without your blame and judgement, he may be willing to share his real feelings and then you have a chance at finding a solution together.

    Whatever you do, I send you big hugs and prayers for you to find the right solutions.
  15. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    RE.....Tony and I can do that so well when it is just the two of us alone. You have no idea how good we are together just the two of us. Not perfect of course, because we have different interests but we can sit and talk for hours. When we travel its normally great.

    Even in the midst of our huge fight the other night, I told him repeatedly I never said or thought he did nothing. In fact I think he does an amazing job in a very hard job in difficult circumstances. Personally I think he is more disabled than Buck! He has more of a right to be. He has worked steadily almost every day of his life since he was 16 years old (actually he started at 10 during the summers roofing with his father) and he is now 50. He had a small stroke in May 2007 and that only stopped him for a week and a half. I have also always said he was a fantastic father. He took the boys everywhere with him when he was home.

    However, I dont appreciate him not giving me the same loyalty. I wasnt perfect by any means. I admit it. I didnt work most of the boys younger years by both of our choices for two reasons - their behaviors and the cost of daycare against what I would most likely earn. I did go to college starting when Jamie was 6 weeks old and graduated when Cory was 1. I maintained a 4.0 average. That isnt the easiest thing to do with three very young kids. We did try having me work using my degree but daycare and Cory didnt mix well. We decided to wait until he was in school full time. When I got my job with Social Services he was thrilled. Of course things were harder because both parents were working now, kids had their appts, kids played sports, house needed attention and meals had to be done. Normal stuff. Tony worked long hours or out of town most of the time. I was it. Im no suzy homemaker and I am sure I could have done better. Sue me. My kids remember having a happy childhood. They were fed. I dont think its fair now to throw something in my face now that happened after I was in a head on collision. I actually talked to Cory about that yesterday and he remembered that incident and he said that wasnt my fault, it was he and Jamie because I was working all those hours and his father got home and caught them. He whipped their asses for not helping me out. At 13 and 15 they were well old enough. Cory was laughing that his father could be possibly blaming me for that all these years later. As Cory said...when Tony said I had no control of my kids, well, I had control of Jamie but no one had control of him and it certainly wasnt my fault. I did my best.

    I have managed to find a place that I can go to for therapy that takes my insurance. I have an appointment on the 19th. I would love to have Tony go but he thinks I poison the well.

    Also and Im just saying this here, I simply dont know how I am going to keep handling the lying Buck is doing. Tony is in such deep denial over it. I am going to have to keep my phone charged fully so I can record everything he says because he has an answer for everything when caught in a lie. I cannot have him here much longer, I simply cant. He seems perfectly able to go out and find a job that could get him into a cheap place. All he needs is some income and he could get into public housing. Not much. He wont even do that.
  16. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Thanks for clarifying everything Janet. I feel so bad for you, when you live with anyone who is in such deep denial, it continues to be not only crazy-making for the one who sees the truth, but connections begin to erode, which is really a tragedy for you and Tony. I'm glad you have a therapy appointment, you can look at your options with someone who is outside all of it, you can get support for YOU, and perhaps begin to see different approaches you can take to ultimately remove Buck from your home. People like Buck are masters at deception and manipulation and to be able to break that spell that Tony suffers under is going to take a direct hit of some magnitude. Perhaps once you are in therapy, Tony would agree to attend some sessions with you, it would be good if he could hear the truth from someone else. Hang in there Janet, I'm hoping the therapy helps all of you to find a solution.
  17. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I am going to try to read that codependency stuff to Tony. Dont know if he will listen or just think it applies to Cory..sigh. He is great about saying we should be oh so hard on him but oh so easy on Buck. Maybe I can get him to go to an Al anon meeting saying I think we should because it would help ME understand why Buck is the way he is. After all I have never known a lifelong drug addict much less had one live in my life. All I know is TV.
  18. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Janet - can you get yourself an inexpensive voice recorder? The schools use them here for kids with some types of disability, so they can make verbal notes to themselves etc. They will record several hours' worth at a time, and the data can be downloaded to your computer. Here, they are $20 or less... so probably less, there.
  19. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Whats so difficult really is that I almost can understand Tony being this confused because Buck is that good at lying and manipulating but Tony has been brought up believing Buck is almost "retarded" and much to stupid to be pulling this type of stuff so I have to be imagining all this stuff. The thing is I was not raised with him and I can see manipulation a mile away because I have been manipulative in the past myself! For heaven's sake I am borderline and one of the hallmarks of that is manipulation. I can smell it a mile away and at this point in my life I dont want it anywhere around me especially after all the therapy I went through to understand myself.

    For instance: He came home the other night after having been gone all day long. He supposedly went to his doctor at the low income clinic where he struck out demanding that they give him stronger pain medications. I knew he would. I have been surprised first at the fact that they gave him any and then at how long they did because normally these places dont give pain medications at all but never long term. Plus it never goes well to go into a doctor and demand to increase to a certain named pain medication like oxycontin or perc 10's. Especially using those names. Sounds drug seeking....and is. Well, he came home that night and told us that his doctor at the clinic said they couldnt give him anymore pain medications and he would have to go to this pain clinic at the health department. He said he had been there that day and got some medications and then went to the hospital to get some xrays done. I asked him explicitly...the health dept next to social services? He said yes. I said wow, I didnt know they did that. I thought they just did wic, std's, etc. Nope, he said, pain management. I said wow, Im sending Cory there. I did. BS!

    When I confronted him about it today....oh no, I didnt say the health dept and I didnt say I had been, I have an appointment in a week at this health center somewhere in Lumberton. Now Tony says..see, you just didnt understand him clearly. Ugh. No, he lied.
  20. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    You need that voice recorder.
    Have it on, in your pocket, when you ask him a question.
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