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In BiPolar (BP) diagnosis, do you have to have sleep issues?
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 320517" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Strattera was a disaster for difficult child 3, the behaviour problems it triggered appearedd very much like bipolar. Or worse. He became irritable, aggressive, more obsessive, manic, finally dangerously aggressive and violent.</p><p></p><p>What you describe could still be explained within the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) profile. </p><p></p><p>The problems our kids have can be very complex. I'm not saying he's not also dealing with BiPolar (BP), but simply having Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) is going to cause some other problems. Depression, for example, is understwandable especially as they get older and begin to really resent the limitations that Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) brings to their lives. If the child is feelnig increasingly an outcase, is being bullied or disciplined harshly, you can get a lot of psychological overlay purely because of the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) and its effects. These things won't respond well to medications but will respond to environmental changes and supports. For example, playground supervision and increas in aide time at school (plus ising the aides more effectively) can greatly reduce a child's stress which can increase their self-esteem as well as their ability to adapt to what is required of them.</p><p></p><p>We did go down the path of throwing more medications at the problems, especiallywhen he became increasingly out of control at school mostly, but also at home. Any benefit was marginal. We got the best benefit when we changed how we handle him.</p><p></p><p>I was talking to mother in law today at length (long drive in the car) and she was insisting that Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids need early intervention to help them learn social skills - according Occupational Therapist (OT) her, Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids need social skills instruction as a matter of urgency. I agree with this. But she went on to say that Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids AND "normal" kids need exactly the same approach, what you do for normal kids is all a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kid needs. </p><p>I had to explain (and I don't think she got it) that Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids' brains are wired so differently, pluys they lack certian functional ability in the areas of social skills, tat instruction re social skills needs to be more intense, ongoing and presented very differently. And it's different for different kids, it's a matter of searching to find what works with each kid.</p><p>difficult child 3 did well with social stories, providing they weren't "preachy". The school would give him a social story following a misbehaviour episode which only ended up turning him off social stories, because they would word the social story along the lines of, "difficult child 3 must not hit other children, because it hurts them. If he hits other children he will be punished." Very negative, expressed in "no" terms and not in a positive way. also there was no consideration of why the hitting was taking place; in fact difficult child 3 was hitting back, after being attacked physically by other kids, and the social story said nothing about what he should do to keep himself safe from being attacked by others.</p><p>Froom difficult child 3's point of view, he desperately wanted to learn how to behave, how to fit in. But anything presented to him that seemed pointless or futile, he would reject. And I know how I would have felt if I'd had his problems and been handed such a social story - I would have rejected it too.</p><p></p><p>He can't properly tell you what is wrong. If you could completely involve him in your concerns about what else could be his diagnosis, he still wouldn't be able to give you any clues.</p><p></p><p>Example: today difficult child 3 had a Speech Pathology session and the therapist was discussing with him, the problems he is having. He said to her that a lot of his speech problems are attention-related (his ADHD) and also his language delay issues due to his autism. She said to him, "Yes, they are factors. But don't forget - you are a teenager, and the teen brain is going through a great deal of devleopment. Teenagers can be very annoying, it's normal. You're blaming a lot of problems on your autism, when in fact it could simply be the teen stuff. Your brain is maturing, the same as any other teenager. Don't blame your autism for everything."</p><p></p><p>He was surprised by this and I think relieved. He does realise his speech dysfluency is getting worse and I think was worrying that his autism was getting worse. Now he feels more encouraged and confident.</p><p></p><p>medications can help but only to a point. Even if there is an acute physical illness, medications are only part of the story. Doctors also rely on a person's own body to pull its weight in the healing stakes. In the same way, we use medications as a tool but they aren't the only tools we have. we need to use everything we have, to help our children.</p><p></p><p>I hope that can rule out BiPolar (BP) - frankly it's the last thing difficult child needs, to have a double whammy. He's at a difficult age anyway, the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) just adds to the problems. </p><p></p><p>I suggest with your son, that you keep a diary. Note down all factors plus his activity level. Note down dates, any other events and over time see if you can see a pattern. There can be so many possible factors - a particular friend over to play may be a trigger for later manic behaviour. Or perhaps a visit to a friend's house may expose him to some types of snacks which could have food additives which could be setting him off. easy child used to get angry and aggressive with tartrazine, a yellow food colour. Both my boys would get manic and aggressive if they had a glass of cola, or a chocolate bat with guarana (caffeine in another form). difficult child 1 also rected the same way to oranges and orange juice.</p><p></p><p>With both boys, if they got angry, really angry, then could then come down with a thump and be really depressed for some hours afterwards. I remember the same ting in my teens. My depression was a raction to me earlier anger and often what I had done while angry. Or perhaps why I had been enraged in the first place (a "best friend" betraying me, for example).</p><p></p><p>Kids feel things intensely, especially Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids. We often don't recognise how deeply they feel because they don't show it in any way we recognise.</p><p></p><p>Kids generally are a complex package. Never underestimate the problems caused simply by trying to get along in the world.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 320517, member: 1991"] Strattera was a disaster for difficult child 3, the behaviour problems it triggered appearedd very much like bipolar. Or worse. He became irritable, aggressive, more obsessive, manic, finally dangerously aggressive and violent. What you describe could still be explained within the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) profile. The problems our kids have can be very complex. I'm not saying he's not also dealing with BiPolar (BP), but simply having Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) is going to cause some other problems. Depression, for example, is understwandable especially as they get older and begin to really resent the limitations that Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) brings to their lives. If the child is feelnig increasingly an outcase, is being bullied or disciplined harshly, you can get a lot of psychological overlay purely because of the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) and its effects. These things won't respond well to medications but will respond to environmental changes and supports. For example, playground supervision and increas in aide time at school (plus ising the aides more effectively) can greatly reduce a child's stress which can increase their self-esteem as well as their ability to adapt to what is required of them. We did go down the path of throwing more medications at the problems, especiallywhen he became increasingly out of control at school mostly, but also at home. Any benefit was marginal. We got the best benefit when we changed how we handle him. I was talking to mother in law today at length (long drive in the car) and she was insisting that Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids need early intervention to help them learn social skills - according Occupational Therapist (OT) her, Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids need social skills instruction as a matter of urgency. I agree with this. But she went on to say that Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids AND "normal" kids need exactly the same approach, what you do for normal kids is all a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kid needs. I had to explain (and I don't think she got it) that Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids' brains are wired so differently, pluys they lack certian functional ability in the areas of social skills, tat instruction re social skills needs to be more intense, ongoing and presented very differently. And it's different for different kids, it's a matter of searching to find what works with each kid. difficult child 3 did well with social stories, providing they weren't "preachy". The school would give him a social story following a misbehaviour episode which only ended up turning him off social stories, because they would word the social story along the lines of, "difficult child 3 must not hit other children, because it hurts them. If he hits other children he will be punished." Very negative, expressed in "no" terms and not in a positive way. also there was no consideration of why the hitting was taking place; in fact difficult child 3 was hitting back, after being attacked physically by other kids, and the social story said nothing about what he should do to keep himself safe from being attacked by others. Froom difficult child 3's point of view, he desperately wanted to learn how to behave, how to fit in. But anything presented to him that seemed pointless or futile, he would reject. And I know how I would have felt if I'd had his problems and been handed such a social story - I would have rejected it too. He can't properly tell you what is wrong. If you could completely involve him in your concerns about what else could be his diagnosis, he still wouldn't be able to give you any clues. Example: today difficult child 3 had a Speech Pathology session and the therapist was discussing with him, the problems he is having. He said to her that a lot of his speech problems are attention-related (his ADHD) and also his language delay issues due to his autism. She said to him, "Yes, they are factors. But don't forget - you are a teenager, and the teen brain is going through a great deal of devleopment. Teenagers can be very annoying, it's normal. You're blaming a lot of problems on your autism, when in fact it could simply be the teen stuff. Your brain is maturing, the same as any other teenager. Don't blame your autism for everything." He was surprised by this and I think relieved. He does realise his speech dysfluency is getting worse and I think was worrying that his autism was getting worse. Now he feels more encouraged and confident. medications can help but only to a point. Even if there is an acute physical illness, medications are only part of the story. Doctors also rely on a person's own body to pull its weight in the healing stakes. In the same way, we use medications as a tool but they aren't the only tools we have. we need to use everything we have, to help our children. I hope that can rule out BiPolar (BP) - frankly it's the last thing difficult child needs, to have a double whammy. He's at a difficult age anyway, the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) just adds to the problems. I suggest with your son, that you keep a diary. Note down all factors plus his activity level. Note down dates, any other events and over time see if you can see a pattern. There can be so many possible factors - a particular friend over to play may be a trigger for later manic behaviour. Or perhaps a visit to a friend's house may expose him to some types of snacks which could have food additives which could be setting him off. easy child used to get angry and aggressive with tartrazine, a yellow food colour. Both my boys would get manic and aggressive if they had a glass of cola, or a chocolate bat with guarana (caffeine in another form). difficult child 1 also rected the same way to oranges and orange juice. With both boys, if they got angry, really angry, then could then come down with a thump and be really depressed for some hours afterwards. I remember the same ting in my teens. My depression was a raction to me earlier anger and often what I had done while angry. Or perhaps why I had been enraged in the first place (a "best friend" betraying me, for example). Kids feel things intensely, especially Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids. We often don't recognise how deeply they feel because they don't show it in any way we recognise. Kids generally are a complex package. Never underestimate the problems caused simply by trying to get along in the world. Marg [/QUOTE]
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