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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 350528" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Not feeling the urge to 'go' or not recognising it, can be part of Sensory Integration disorder which itself can be part of autism in its various forms.</p><p></p><p>It all fits.</p><p></p><p>We went through this with both boys. If the kid doesn't recognise messages from his body, then trying to toilet-train him can be a lot more challenging. </p><p></p><p>Punishment doesn't work. What helped us the most - routine. Planning. Involving the child as much as possible. Trying to link some other 'signal' to the habit to go to the toilet, so you build up a different conditioned response. Bribes, even. Rewards. We blu-takked a mini box of M&Ms to the wall of the bathroom and made it clear - they were difficult child 3's for doing poo in the toilet. He also got added incentives for keeping his undies clean. If he soiled his undies (or anything else) we had a cleaning routine which was NOT a punishment or disapproval, it was just a procedure. No shame, just matter-of-fact management. But he had to have part in this too, because it was HIS problem.</p><p></p><p>Our cleaning routine - we did this with difficult child 1 too. </p><p>At first sign of soiled child we would check (sorry - got to look). The sniff test works too, but kids who tend to encopresis tend to have a lot more smell anyway, because the toxins from the overdue waste build up and can fool you.</p><p></p><p>So when the child was clearly soiled, we'd go into the bathroom. Strip the child. Hose down (warm shower, we had a hand-held shower attachment, it made things easier). Keep it friendly, gentle. Not a reward, just a task to do. Same as for any shower or bath.</p><p></p><p>Put all soiled clothing in the laundry, put it in to soak. Splash the clothing with vinegar first, then soak in lukewarm water (nothing warmer). Do not put any of the previous clothing back on the child, not even the outer layers. If it's not practical to wash them, hang them up to air them.</p><p></p><p>Next - dry the child off. Dress the child in clean clothes. Make a point of encouraging the child to examine how he feels and how he smells. It's a good feeling to be clean, it is good to smell clean and fresh. Very pleasant. </p><p></p><p>if you skimp and put any of the previous clothing back on, the child will be aware of the slightest soiled smell, even if they're not consciously aware of it. It makes it more difficult for the child to learn the full contrast between soiled and clean.</p><p></p><p>Now, wash the soiled clothes. If you can, put a few drops of essential oil in the washing machine, use something astringent and not too floral - ti-tree oil, eucalyptus oil, rosemary oil - all are good choices. They help neutralise the bad smells.</p><p></p><p>I treat this problem the same way I handled 'toilet-training' a pet rabbit. Rabbits use midden heaps, so they will go back to the same place they used before (guided by the smell) and use it again. So it's important to neutralise the smell, if they soil in the wrong place, and make sure the rabbit associates the RIGHT place to go, with the fecal smell. I would 'seed' the bunny litter tray with rabbit fecal pellets and thoroughly clean areas that had been soiled or wet. I had to use strong solutions of pine oil, which I remember drove Bunny crazy, because something smelt yummy and he wanted it! But he didn't go back to use the areas I had thoroughly cleaned.</p><p></p><p>Worked with a rabbit, worked with the boys. Eventually. </p><p></p><p>Rabbits are easier to toilet-train.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 350528, member: 1991"] Not feeling the urge to 'go' or not recognising it, can be part of Sensory Integration disorder which itself can be part of autism in its various forms. It all fits. We went through this with both boys. If the kid doesn't recognise messages from his body, then trying to toilet-train him can be a lot more challenging. Punishment doesn't work. What helped us the most - routine. Planning. Involving the child as much as possible. Trying to link some other 'signal' to the habit to go to the toilet, so you build up a different conditioned response. Bribes, even. Rewards. We blu-takked a mini box of M&Ms to the wall of the bathroom and made it clear - they were difficult child 3's for doing poo in the toilet. He also got added incentives for keeping his undies clean. If he soiled his undies (or anything else) we had a cleaning routine which was NOT a punishment or disapproval, it was just a procedure. No shame, just matter-of-fact management. But he had to have part in this too, because it was HIS problem. Our cleaning routine - we did this with difficult child 1 too. At first sign of soiled child we would check (sorry - got to look). The sniff test works too, but kids who tend to encopresis tend to have a lot more smell anyway, because the toxins from the overdue waste build up and can fool you. So when the child was clearly soiled, we'd go into the bathroom. Strip the child. Hose down (warm shower, we had a hand-held shower attachment, it made things easier). Keep it friendly, gentle. Not a reward, just a task to do. Same as for any shower or bath. Put all soiled clothing in the laundry, put it in to soak. Splash the clothing with vinegar first, then soak in lukewarm water (nothing warmer). Do not put any of the previous clothing back on the child, not even the outer layers. If it's not practical to wash them, hang them up to air them. Next - dry the child off. Dress the child in clean clothes. Make a point of encouraging the child to examine how he feels and how he smells. It's a good feeling to be clean, it is good to smell clean and fresh. Very pleasant. if you skimp and put any of the previous clothing back on, the child will be aware of the slightest soiled smell, even if they're not consciously aware of it. It makes it more difficult for the child to learn the full contrast between soiled and clean. Now, wash the soiled clothes. If you can, put a few drops of essential oil in the washing machine, use something astringent and not too floral - ti-tree oil, eucalyptus oil, rosemary oil - all are good choices. They help neutralise the bad smells. I treat this problem the same way I handled 'toilet-training' a pet rabbit. Rabbits use midden heaps, so they will go back to the same place they used before (guided by the smell) and use it again. So it's important to neutralise the smell, if they soil in the wrong place, and make sure the rabbit associates the RIGHT place to go, with the fecal smell. I would 'seed' the bunny litter tray with rabbit fecal pellets and thoroughly clean areas that had been soiled or wet. I had to use strong solutions of pine oil, which I remember drove Bunny crazy, because something smelt yummy and he wanted it! But he didn't go back to use the areas I had thoroughly cleaned. Worked with a rabbit, worked with the boys. Eventually. Rabbits are easier to toilet-train. Marg [/QUOTE]
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