internet extreme porn

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by trouble, Jun 2, 2011.

  1. trouble

    trouble New Member

    Well... how do you figure out whether the "experts" are getting the whole story? Am I over-reacting? or, is he SO good at covering up that THEY are missing something?

    14yo boy. Limited computer access. Highly gullible. Desperate for "friendship". We're getting the impression that he'll do whatever it takes to fit in...

    Involved in accessing extreme internet porn - bondage, cruelty, rape, etc. Started last winter. School had to shut down his computer there, and we've been dealing with tdocs etc. ever since. THEY see it as rebellion against overly strict standards at home - we see it as a twisted perversion that will explode at some point if it isn't modified, but it will take highly specialized resources to do that and we don't have access...

    Now, he's at it again - on MY computer. With sister sitting around the corner, and me coming and going at random. Supposed to be doing on-line homework (&^%$#$#$@@) stupid schools - why do they have to use ON-LINE resources and require us to do this from home? (school here has extensive, expensive firewalls - stuff normal people can't afford to buy and maintain - but there isn't enough class time to do the work - its assigned as homework)

    We know what triggers it... a screw-you attitude that happens whenever things don't go the way he wants them to go, especially if it happens when he is tired and stressed. Was researching some potential social groups for him, but the one he really wants requires a time commitment that he cannot make (limitations due to disability...) - and thats the ONLY one he wants.

    sigh.

    But mostly, worried about whether its really rebellion, or if it is a sexual perversion that will put others at risk (including younger sister).

    Feedback?
     
  2. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    What happens to the kids whose families don't have computers? Our school makes a point of not requiring on-line work outside of school because there ARE families that either can't afford computers/internet service or don't want to have one. That just does not seem quite right to me. Anyway...


    What you just said seems to fit with what the "experts" are saying.


    What disability(ies) does he have that would limit him? What does this group offer that is so appealing to him? What do they do that he "can't" do? Have you talked to this group to see if there would be anything they could do to help him participate in THEIR group?


    More questions: What are your sons diagnoses? What medications is he on? Does he display any sexually inappropriate behavior besides watching these websites? What do the doctor's see as "overly strict standards at home"?
     
  3. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    I read your post earlier, and decided to think about it for a bit...

    I don't know the entire situation, of course. However - I'm pretty laid back, though my kids consider me the strict parent.

    A 14-y/o boy will be interested in sex... Unfortunately, most of what's available online isn't appropriate for his age. Extreme stuff gives him a skewed sense of what is "normal" and acceptable in real life.

    There are free programs you can install that will block certain websites. However, the best thing to do for now - if you have Windows - is to use the Content Advisor. Open Internet Explorer, go to Tools, Internet Options, Content - and follow the wizard to lock it down.

    Do this when he isn't looking. And if he is using your profile, he can change it. This is easy to fix though - create a profile for him. Make it LIMITED - cannot change settings or install programs.

    Kids can get around this stuff, but it's a start - and it's already there.

    And... What do the "experts" consider "too strict"? Teenagers push boundaries. If you put them in a box, they'll try to get out. Even "normal" teens. But there do have to be some boundaries - I know this all too well.

    Let us know more about your son, and your family... We aren't doctors, but we can give you our ideas, at least - always a good starting place.

    ...And WELCOME!!!
     
  4. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Hi and welcome.
    I need to know more about his disability. Obviously, he can type. :)
    My son did porn for a while. It wasn't rape, but it was up-close and grossss!!! Funny thing was, he didn't relate it to how babies were made ... so I said, "So now you know how R got pregnant with you."
    "Huh? She did THAT?"
    Well, not violent, but definitely those body parts.
    That's PART of what put a stop to it.
    So, maybe you can casually mention an elderly couple down the street who probably have sex and just let his mind go there to put a bitter taste in his mouth, Know what I mean?? It helps get rid of the titillation.:whoopdedoo::imok:

    We also grounded difficult child off of the computer for a month, (we have another computer that does not have a modem, which he uses to type assignments), and anytime he needs live computer info, *I* type it in and he sits in a chair next to me. Mom, aka Babysitter Aficionado.

    We also told him that the people in the photos and films were on drugs and were abused and told him that he was contributing to that lifestyle. We told him until he got sick of hearing it. I mean, we hammered away at him. And HE thought HE could be perseverent, lol!:devil:

    YOU sit there with-him when he does homework. Any other time, you take the keyboard and mouse and lock it up. He has to earn it. And has to always be supervised while he's playing any kind of video game. Tell him flat out that he lost his privileges because he proved more than once that he couldn't be trusted.
    If he refuses, he cannot have ANY computer privileges. Believe me, he'll buckle eventually. :)
     
  5. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Are these so called experts at school? Exactly WHO is telling you that this is "normal"? Searching for porn is, sadly, normal for many teens. But searching for extreme porn repeatedly is not. I don't care who is saying it is. Anyone who is telling you he is only searching for extreme porn to get back at you for being too strict is an idiot. Just in my opinion, but I have a sibling who went this route before computers were in homes. He has a very long history of being inappropriate sexually and isn't about to stop now.

    It is easy to stumble on hard core extreme porn, but going to it over and over is a CHOICE.

    Has he ever been evaluated by a neuropsychologist? There are disorders that can cause hypersexuality, but that doesn't seem to fit his behavior. Neuropsychs do very thorough testing (the good ones) and can pinpoint the cause of many things. I would look into that if I were you.

    I would also tell school that he is to have NO, ZIP, ZERO computer time. Don't your schools require parental permission to give kids internet access? Take it away, in writing, and tell them they must come up with some other way to educate him. It won't be popular, and teachers will cry that they "can't" teach him if he cannot go online. It is HOGWASH. They taught for many years with-o computer access and there is NO reason they cannot give him assignments that are not comptuer based. Lock down the home computer and don't let him on it. Put it in a room with a deadbolt and put an alarm in the room that will go off if it is opened with-o you there to turn it off. Do this when he is NOT home.

    Call the local domestic violence center and ask what resources they have for people who are sexual predators. That is what continued exposure to this type of porn leads to in many cases. (If I had a dollar for every time a female who knew a certain relative of mine called me to ask what to do because this relative brought up bad, scary feelings with intimate activities/requests or flat out brought up feelings of being abused, molested or raped I would have a fairly substantial bank account - this relative started seeking out extreme porn mags at your son's age and to this day this relative feels and thinks that the people who object to what is demanded are just prudes or ashamed of their sexuality - and that is pretty far off base from what I know of the women.) DV centers are where many people who are sexually assaulted go for help and often if it is a family member/spouse the have therapy for that person also. It does NOT mean your son is violent now, it is just where the help would be.

    I know you are really scared. Rest assured that the school CAN educate him with-o internet based assignments. You will have to push them, and they won't like it, but allowing him to be online with-o your permission means you can hold them legally accountable if he finds this stuff while at school and acts on it. You can also probably find anti-porn resources online. ANY computer use should have a parent sitting right next to him the entire time. Or a teacher if you allow school to let him online. Be very aware that school will PROMISE to have a teacher sitting right next to him and will NOT follow through. The teacher will get up and go to other kids, walk around, etc... even knowing that she is supposed to be eyes on right next to him the entire time. Don't fall for that one. been there done that and it was a HUGE lie.

    Follow your instincts, not the experts. The experts spend a tiny bit of time with your son and then tell you what to do. YOU spend a huge amount of time with him, know him FAR better and this is why you have instincts. Many of us here know that the biggest mistakes we made/make with our kids happen when we follow the experts and ignore the instincts/gut feelings that scream that it is the wrong thing to do. YOU raised him, see him for hours and hours each day, know the history, CARE DEEPLY about him. The experts don't do these things. They may care, but NOT the way a parent cares, Know what I mean??

    As for school's firewalls, pfffft. They are NOT as great as they tell you they are. In the 9th grade the computer teacher basically gave the kids a challenge that they couldn't get through the firewall and if they could she would give them an A. A month later they were all OVER my difficult child because he did just that. He used another kid's ID and password so that let them kick him out of the class - and the teacher tried to tell me that "she didn't mean it" and the kids knew she didn't mean the challenge. EVERY kid in that class, all five periods of kids, thought she meant it. ALL of them - and they signed a petition saying that because they were ANGRY that he got into trouble when the teacher challenged them. Cause the challenge was that the first one would get an A, not anyone who could. THis was a hugely expensive firewall/net nanny program. Those programs are NOT hard to hack, which is why he needs an adult sitting next to him watching all that he does from right next to him.

    Many will tell you that he is doing this to upset you or get back at your or whatever. He is doing it because he wants to. Curiosity is normal, esp about sex, but this kind of porn is NOT. Lock down the computer, refuse to allow access at school and make SURE that they know you WILL sue if he gets any access for any reason. It won't be easy and the school will come up with all sorts of reasons why you cannot. But give them a letter taking permission for him to access the internet away and don't listen. Ask them how they cannot teach with-o the internet/computer, because generations of people were educated with-o computers or the internet. Heck, take a textbook in and show it to them - that funky low tech solution to learning that worked for thousands of years. Introduce them to it and let them use THAT to teach him. (Yes, that is sarcastic and snarky, but I HATE people who say they cannot do this, that or the other with-o the internet. It is NOT the be all and end all of education or anything else except computer science. I have upset more than a couple of teachers/principals with that, but only after they upset me and went ahead and let him online and then were upset that he got into stuff that wasn't okay - let him online AFTER I revoked permission in writing and verbally. This reliance on the internet is a crutch and in my opinion is crippling students - they no longer know how to look anything up that isn't online.)

    He needs to see a therapist, pref male, who understands that this isn't normal curiosity. It goes way beyond, in my opinion. Hopefully a neuropsychologist evaluation and seeing a therapist, and a psychiatrist if the neuropsychologist says it is needed, will help him learn healthier ways to explore his sexuality. Be sure to look into anti-porn groups and research/resources online. (Yes, I know how ironic that is, esp as I think the internet isn't always a good thing, but that is where you will find the resources you need. let me know if you need help finding things and I will find some and private message them to you.)
     
  6. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    For Kanga, we printed the info off the web that she needed for any assignment and just gave her the printouts. Way too dangerous to let that girl near a computer.

    For Eeyore, we have bsecure.com parental controls. We are still trying to figure out the right settings for it cause they are WAY tight.
     
  7. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    And regarding the little sister, I would put a protection plan in place for her. I'll pray that you don't really need it, but better safe than sorry. You can do it without telling her why. Just be extra vigilant in making sure they are not alone together, do not have him babysit her, get her a solid, exterior lock for her bedroom door. Check at Goodwill and see if you can get a used video/audio babymonitor. Set it up to view the hallway so you can see if anyone tries to get into a 'wrong' room.
     
  8. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    JJJ is right. I forgot to mention that. Make a written safety plan for her that includes not having her in a room with him unless an adult is actually in the room. It is a hassle, but it may save you a world of hurt/grief and hassles from CPS. It iwll show CPS, when/if they ever get involved, that you are doing all you can to keep everyone safe. It is to protect her AND protect him from allegations that are not true. It is EASY to make a child believe that something happened when it didn't. Just ask the question four or five times - eventually you will get what the child thinks you want to hear.

    If he truly IS doing this when he is angry at you, it is just a very very short step from seeking out images to acting them out with his sister or another child to anger you. It will be learning to use sexual behavior to control people - exactly the WRONG lesson for anyone. a very dangerous lesson that will be incredibly hard to unlearn. I have a sib who tried this, and it can be terribly effective even if it is just a threat. It is a hugely difficult thing to handle from a parent's standpoint - IF you actually findo ut about it. Often worse is threatened if the child tells and they believe it. It is a reason to put the video/audio in her room.
     
  9. keista

    keista New Member

    First, I am shocked, appalled, speechless, furious, whatever, that the school is being so 'calm' about this issue. Viewing/possessing porn by minors is ILLEGAL. End of story. Does not matter what type it is, it is illegal. What makes this more crazy is hearing reports from other schools where a semi nude picture is taken of a student, it runs viral on cell phones, and the last student to receive it (even though they didn't want to) reports it, gets in trouble.

    Second, ALL boys search out porn in one way shape or form. Many girls as well. Anyone remember National Geographic magazines? Most is a natural healthy curiosity. My son came and confessed to me that he searched it out on the internet. We had a long talk about the legal issues, the danger of becoming 'immune' or 'anesthetized' from over exposure, and of course the possibility, that he would stumble across images that he did NOT want to see but since it was a stumble he already saw it, and it can haunt you for a long time. been there done that myself.

    Third, do you know for sure that he is viewing these images and fantasizing from the perspective of the perpetrator? We don't have a profile on your son (diagnosis, medications, previous issues) and while it's possible that he's 'turned on' by the control and violence of these images, it is just as possible that he may be fantasizing from the victim's perspective. A virtual form of 'cutting'

    There is a very large, and due to the internet, more open counterculture of sexual deviations - not all are based in cruelty and violence even though at first glance they may appear to be. It's also a spectrum from light 'kinky' play to OMG what are you thinking? You're really ALLOWING him/her to do that? But it is mutually agreed upon behavior. Again, think 'cutting' where a person cuts themselves to feel better. Doesn't make it normal, but it does feed some psychological need for both parties.

    Lastly, I think your tdocs are CRAZY can you find others? Try as I might, I cannot think about this situation "as rebellion against overly strict standards at home" It's a natural curiosity that has gone awry, been twisted to some form of 'deviant' sexual thinking/fantasizing. Legally we must curb that natural curiosity (I got Victoria Secrets catalogs and left them lying around), but that deviation should be address ESPECIALLY if it is, as you suspect, one of cruelty and violence.

    I would take precautions, as mentioned above, You can also put keylogging software on your computer so you can track everything he does (if you ever allow him access again)

    God Luck.
     
  10. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    We had brief experiences with this issue at about the same age and with two teens of entirely different personalities. The the older one he quit once told it was not acceptable. The younger one sounds more like your son. Desperate for friends, diagnosed with Aspergers and a few other things. His interest got triggered by Anime and somehow (I'm not sure how) moved on to Asian porn. He has never acted out inappropriately but I think used/uses the sites as a turnon...he is a legal adult and still likes those sites. I agree with the advice others have given about blocking sites and having him evaluated. Just thought I'd share that although his sites have perversion it is possible that he accidentally went from one porn site into another as happened with our difficult child. DDD
     
  11. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    My youngest stumbled upon some similar sites when he was around that age but as soon as he found real girls all internet interest stopped completely. Was the most amazing thing...lol. I used to have to attempt to block my computer from everything with him and now the worst he does is look on craigslist or pogo....lmao.
     
  12. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    You should also be able to go into the modem controls or Windows controls and blacklist certain sites or dot whatever domains. I think you can also make it where any changes to the controls require a password.
     
  13. trouble

    trouble New Member

    diagnosis: Adhd-combined, with extreme executive function issues, anxiety (not otherwise specified), motor coordination and sensory issues, ODD (of course), dysgraphia, major delays in social skills, severe fatigue

    In practical terms: no practical handwriting skills, so relies on computer for school work - but only got that about a year ago (should have had years ago). So, he has no idea what the limits are, or how to properly use this tool (organizing files, when to use what program, when to have the computer on or off, privacy, etc.), etc. Original set-up was with WIFI - for printing, saving files to network, etc., but that automatically includes internet - we fought unsuccessfully for non-WIFI solutions but were told "this is the way its done" (we were concerned about the distraction of the internet...) This means that "no computer" is not an option.

    Still trying to track down source of fatigue, but its the major cause of social delays... lack of experience. Its also what puts the kybosh on most multi-age activities... they run from 7-9 or 6-9... and he's "dead" by 7:30, can stretch to 8 max. Sports are not an option - coordination issues. So its community band, scouts, etc. would be possible options - except, they go too late at night, and/or include weekend trips - both of which multiply his fatigue really fast and make the rest of his life fall apart. HE would rather be involved in these things and let the rest of his life fall apart, 'cause its a mess anyway.

    I'm a computer techie - and I still can't lock the system down good enough. It would take about $5000 to put together a reasonably secure system - and then about 20 hours per month to maintain it.

    They finally took internet off the school computer - after he used public wifi and borrowed non-school network connections to download forbidden materials... which then made it so the computer didn't work for school either. He found a work-around so both would work again (school and internet), and of course got slammed for doing that as well. So now he doesn't want to use the computer at all - and is getting almost nothing done at school.

    School work requires internet... SmartMusic, music theory - for a minimum, these require live internet connection. School gets around the "unfair" aspect by having a few computers available to run this stuff, but no where near the number necessary - so, if you don't have a computer, you either have to be at school at 7:30, or you're out of luck...

    Its a classic catch-22... the usual solutions for any one of his issues, runs into the brick wall of one or more OTHER issues... and we've been doing this since Kindergarten!

    Therapists - NO options. You take what you get (this is NOT America!). Male therapists? rarer than hens teeth. He's been in therapy for 3 yrs, zero impact - he simply refuses to engage - and that was BEFORE we hit THIS stuff.

    He did tell one psychiatrist that he did it because other kids set him up - he was trying to get their approval. Maybe. But this week??? not likely.
     
  14. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    We've had issues with porn in general with my difficult child 1, and it was at its worst when his medications were wrong. He had INCREDIBLE impulse control problems. I had to use the Windows parental controls to place time limits and passwords on our computer user accounts, as well as monitoring activity. And I had to set the highest level of internet filters/security for Internet Explorer so that he could not access anything inappropriate online. It didn't help that husband had various and sundry XXX magazines which difficult child 1 found in their hiding spots. Those are now in a landfill. And I'm sure my difficult child sought this out under similar situations as yours: unhappy, stressed out, etc. It's a form of emotional medicating.

    I think if you can get to the underlying reason for the bad feelings he's having that are driving this impulse/compulsion, you'll have a better chance of redirecting him to healthier outlets and coping mechanisms.
     
  15. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    On the subject of diagnosis, if there is a component of autism, it could account for a level of perseverative behaviour in this that can be really scary if you don't know where it is coming form. Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids can pick up habits after one experience of something. An example I give is - we go to the beach often in summer. We go to the beach by car, we drive home by car. The beach is five minutes away. ONE TIME I stopped at the local shop to buy milk (as I sometimes do) and decided, on impulse (since it was a hot day) to buy the kids an ice cream. From that time on, every time we were leaving the beach, difficult child 3 would insist on an ice cream "because we always get one". Even though I never bought an ice cream after the beach again, the tantrums and tears continued for several years. We dealt with it by buying inexpensive tube ice blocks and letting him have one of those at home after a beach visit.

    Next point - curiosity about porn is normal for boys, as a rule. We found with difficult child 1 that his friends would show him porn (travelling to and from school) and we would often find various porn magazines in his room or in his school bag. The day he got suspended his bag was searched and a very crumpled soft porn magazine was found in the compost in the bottom of his bag. The acting principal was on thin ice with her discipline of difficult child 1 and was trying to use the presence of the porn to get me outraged at my son, in order to distract me from the main issues. Instead I closely examined the porn (with easy child, who was 19 years old - difficult child 1 was 17 at the time) and pointed out where it had been airbrushed to hide things like pubic hair etc. I did not let the teacher get away with this method of trying to distract me.

    BUT when I got home, I talked to difficult child 1 about porn. I followed some of the methods already suggested - sex education, basically. Which in our family is not just about the mechanics of how babies are made, it is about sexual responsibility. That includes emotional responsibility and compassion/consideration for one's partner.
    Then I went in to educate difficult child 1 about porn. I did this by sitting with him and looking up porn online, but from a different angle. You need to be able to hide your own revulsion at this, do not do this if you can't avoid being judgemental. A good way to begin is to Google "dead porn stars". There are a number of websites that give a history of porn and especially porn stars. Some survive and get to enjoy their earnings, but they are a minority. The women especially have very short, unpleasant careers, the industry chew them up and spits them back out (as unusable by anything) in a very short time. Again, there are a few exceptions. The reasons a person takes up a career in porn is wildly variable and this also has a bearing on what happens to them. For example, a girl who 'falls into' a porn career out of financial necessity (a runaway, a kid who left home to escape sexual abuse then finds herself on the streets as a prostitute can see porn films as a means of escape to a better life - it's not) or out of drug addiction, generally becomes a statistic. Look up the life stories of these women. Look at their backgrounds. If you think about it, the sort of girl who gets abused by this, manipulated by this and destroyed by this has often already been a victim before the porn industry finds her. Or she could be a decent kid who thinks this is a fast way to make a bit of money, but doesn't realise the emotional damage this can do to her. Engage your son in their human stories. Also, the process of making porn, the photographic tricks, the way the sex act has to be displayed (so they're actually not having sex normally, but in some weird position that lets the cameras in for a closeup) is far from natural, or a reflection of what is normal.

    Teach him about normal sex. Also make it clear that this is what people do when they find someone they really care about who also wants to have sex with them. Sex under any other circumstances is just plain wrong, and also personally damaging. It really does do a lot of damage to have sex, or force sex upon someone, when it's not really wanted or either individual is not ready for it.

    The point of all this is - porn, in general, is unnatural. Wanting to look at it IS natural (especially for boys) but they need to learn that there are people being exploited in this stuff, it is so close to rape it is not funny. When you choose to have sex because it's that or starve (or suffer severe drug withdrawal because you can't afford your next fix) then it is as coercive as having sex while someone holds a knife to your throat.

    Sex is supposed to be something special and beautiful. Porn is the opposite. What it does to people is appalling.

    By me sitting beside my son (not his dad, but me) it made it even more personal for him and showed him that I was not going to be horrified by the bare flesh, although I was able to be horrified and distressed by the poor people (male and female) who died young because of their involvement. It also directly led the way for me to teach sexual responsibility. of course I wanted my kids to wait until they were married before they had sex - that is an ideal that these days is frankly unrealistic. If you are strict enough about this, you think, then your children will stay chaste.
    Don't you believe it. All you will do by refusing to acknowledge the possibility, is drive it underground. We have friends at church whose daughters used to climb out of the bedroom windows at night. They drank, used drugs and slept around. The parents still don't know and if I tried to tell them, they would refuse to hear it. I know, because another friend from church has a daughter the same age and the girls used to talk to one another.
    Interestingly, when easy child was living with SIL1 before marriage (not even engaged) I had a church elder approach me to ask me how I could condone this. I pointed out that easy child was an adult who made her own choices, after having been raised in a Christian environment. I said that SIL1 is a young man whose presence in our family we value. Yes, I would prefer them to be married, but SIL1 had a lot of emotional baggage on the subject of marriage and Christianity and frankly, the best thing we could do for him was to undo the damage by loving him, being welcoming and showing him that not all Christians will treat him badly simply because his mother was abandoned by his father (ironically, a religious man) when she became pregnant. It took some years but SIL1 did eventually freely propose marriage and they are very happy indeed, have just had their second wedding anniversary and are now expecting their first baby. If we had imposed our wills, it would have done nothing for his healing, and could have driven a wedge between us and our daughter. He could have felt forced into marriage and resentful. Now? He is learning to value marriage and respect our beliefs.
    Interestingly, when that same church elder's children became sexually active, he shut up about the issue!

    You can't win with prohibition. If your child has any similarity to Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), then prohibition will never be sufficient to overcome the intense drive to do what he wants to do or feels is right. A better way its to shine a searchlight on the issue and re-educate.

    We also grossed out our kids by taking them shopping for condoms (as part of my campaign to teach sexual responsibility). In Australia we can buy condoms in the supermarkets, they are next to deodorants. I did not lower my voice in any way, I pointed out which brands to avoid, told them to not get too intrigued with flavoured condoms because they are very chemical in taste and frankly the banana ones especially are awful; I told them to not bother with "ribbed for her pleasure" because a vagina doesn't have sensitive enough nerve endings to feel the difference, and those ones can reduce the pleasure for the man because the condoms tend to be thicker. My knowledge on the topic I am sure, bought us another few years of celibacy in our kids!

    Other than that - monitor it. Try to insist on some level of supervision at school, if tey insist that WiFi cannot be turned off (which is a ridiculous statement, frankly).

    And if possible, try to find something else to engage him. difficult child 3 is currently caught up with 3-D photography, he takes photos on his Nintendo 3DS and processes them through the computer into a monochrome form that can be viewed online with red/blue glasses. There are also online social groups that have strict rules about online behaviour, but are a lot of fun for a kid. difficult child 3 is slowly learning some important social rules on a few of these sites. I encourage him to talk to me about them, he has sometimes asked me for help with a conversation. He has learned the rules (belatedly - he has nearly been banned a few times for inappropriate language when someone upset him) and is now quick to blow the whistle on inappropriate behaviour that breaches the site rules. Have a look at the sites first. Gaia is one I would suggest you look at.

    We live in a modern world and increasingly, internet connectedness is a part of life. We need to teach our children to use it wisely and appropriately. Prohibition is a last resort that is a lot of hard work and can still often fail spectacularly.

    You may have more success controlling his access to his 'friends'. When difficult child 1 was 14, his friends (the ones who were supplying him with porn magazines) were a bad lot. One kid was okay, but he soon stopped being okay when he got hooked in to the dark side. He is also an Aspie (like difficult child 1) but this just made him more vulnerable to manipulation by the kids he wanted as friends. difficult child 1 survived this stage because he had a strong sense of justice and right/wrong. We worked hard to keep this on track with regular (many times daily) social skills lessons. Every opportunity, we taught the natural consequences to others as well as ourselves, of breaking the rules. it is a facet of Asperger's which we shamelessly exploited.

    Your son gets very tired - if he is putting in a lot of effort during his days (and I often describe this as the swan on the lake - it looks serene and relaxed but there is a lot of furious activity going on beneath the surface of the water to make this possible) then this will make him very tired.

    You need to become his facilitator and not his obstacle (from his point of view). It is natural when you have a child like this, to clamp down more and more on controlling him, when his behaviour is so challenging. But with some kids, it is this very tightening of controls that can make their behaviour worse. You end up becoming a jail warder and life loses its fun for you and for him. There is only one direction to go from here and that is downhill.

    On this site we recommend "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. read it, it might help you find a better way to reach your son and help him understand that you love him, you want him to live right and you are there to help him learn how to be a healthy, happy, productive, independent adult. It's never too early to start, in making a start in areas you can trust him with, you can begin to let him see that your aims and his do not have to be in conflict.

    Marg
     
  16. trouble

    trouble New Member

    gcvmom - we're in the middle of medications review/reset/adjust, but its going to take at least 3 months; to get to the medication we want to try (and have it funded), have to try everything else first. We do know that the medications are NOT being effective in controlling impulse etc.

    Marg - Definitely not Aspie - just re-tested, psychiatrist report says he shows "some elevated readings" in areas like social skills, but no where near the "aspie" thresholds. There is some relationship between the various developmental challenges... aspie, adhd, motor skills, etc. So it might be an edge of this, but not much.

    At school they turned off the WIFI, but now it is extremely cumbersome for him to do his work by computer - 10 steps to print, more than that to email assignments to a teacher... it takes so much time that he's decided the computer isn't worth the effort at school - but he can't produce the volume or quality of work necessary without it... BUT, they say that's the price he pays (for the entire rest of his education - they will NOT, ever, re-consider a second chance for anyone) for doing what he did with a school computer. WIFI should never have been on in the first place... he needs EFFECTIVE systems, what he's got is worse than nothing.

    At home, the internet computer is so absolutely vital to my job, that essentially nobody gets to use it, ever - well, almost never... husband will sometimes page through particular sites, if I set it up for him (and close down all client sites) - and the kids will do supervised homework research and/or on-line class materials as required... but "supervised" in our house means checked on every 5-10 minutes... and that's enough time to get into trouble. We lock it down so tight, because if someone downloads something and crashes the system and I can't be back up within 2 hours, then I'm out of a job - permanently. (its contract work with performance clauses)

    Thought about the "lock on the door" approach, but THAT runs the risk that he steals the keys and then locks himself in there WITH her... and that's even worse. And, he's getting to be pretty good at picking locks anyway - so, key or no key...

    The principal saw the original stuff he downloaded - and he says they see soft-porn stuff "all the time", the stuff that's "normal" for boys this age - but the stuff on HIS computer was the most extreme he had ever seen... so, its not just my reaction to the titles and stuff, it IS extreme. (even husband admits to finding used copies of various mags as a teenager... we're not THAT prude)

    The "overstrict" label comes from how we live... we don't even own a TV (its not just off-limits for the kids), no computer-games like Nintendo, no internet games, no cell phones for the kids (not yet - they have to be able to afford to pay 100% of the costs for long-term contracts)... What they do have is 10x what most kids get... advanced access to anything it takes in their areas of interest... music, tools, equipment, lessons, projects, etc. etc. (including two very lively dogs). When we travel, its jam-packed and the kids love it, but we're a pretty orderly home the rest of the time because we all need it. The more research we do into the conditions we're dealing with, the more we're convinced that NOT having this stuff is the right decision... but the rest of the world doesn't agree. (not yet)

    One of the worries is, has someone been messing with HIM and we don't know about it? He has never been a communicator, and its gotten worse the last 4-5 years of problems... he keeps everything bottled inside (tdocs can't reach him). Is some of this a way of plotting revenge??? If he hasn't been messed with, then its probably easier to turn around - found some interesting articles for him... he's pretty gullible, but we can make use of that trait... leave stuff laying around looking like he's NOT supposed to read it, and you can just about guarantee that it gets read...

    The first set of incidents I can sort of rationalize. The next set... ??? Wat does it really mean? Because he is 14, tdocs cannot tell us ANYTHING about what gets discussed OR any of there conclusions, unless THEY think he is likely to cause harm to someone else or himself. So, we know almost nothing of the few visits he's had since the incidents started... and no input into the process. And no money to pay for private tdocs, so its all "whatever is available"...

    How do you tell if a kid's been sexually molested??? esp. a boy?
     
  17. keista

    keista New Member

    I don't consider that overstrict. I consider it a lifestyle, and as parents you are free to chose the lifestyle you want.

    I have friends who have dragged their kids to 3rd world countries for 2-3 years at a clip for their work. Others who take their kids hiking or skiing in the Swiss Alps every other weekend. Friends of friends who lived on a boat for 4 years. These are extremes, yes, but the kids are all doing well, and no one is calling the parents "overly strict" for denying cartoons or whatever. This kind of adaptation can also be seen in impoverished areas where a 5 y/o "has to" babysit a 3 y/o and actually does a good job of it - sad, but it does happen. The point is, kids GENERALLY adapt to whatever the parental lifestyle is, that is, unless the kid is a difficult child. I could never live like you do, but I do NOT think you are being strict - just living the lifestyle you choose.


    As far as your concerns of him being molested, if you haven't already, you need to open lines of communication about sex in general. You can bring in the porn issue in as well. Discuss it with husband to decide what specific context you want to put it in, but in a nutshell, that sex is an act of love between two ppl who care about each other and only want to make each other's lives better. in my opinion Marg did this brilliantly! This can also lead to the "good touching, bad touching" discussions and that he is still a kid so if anyone "talks him into" such things you'll support him. (molesters can be very manipulative and make a kid think they consented) Also, you and husband can ask therapist if any indication of molestation has been revealed. However, if it had, I would assume that therapist would have been required to report it already.
     
  18. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    Terry and JJJ have some good practical advice. As for my imput on this subject it is as follows: There is always a natural curiosity about sex that is to be expected. And a mild amout of titulation is probably ok. However as one who knows someone who became addicted to porn, I will say that it is insidious and acts on the body just like any other drug. Viewing porn raises sex related hormone levels within the viewer's body and because of that physiological effect, anyone with a propensity to addiction can get sucked in. Just like a runner can become addicted to the endorphines and run themselves to death a person who is addicted to porn can ruin their life and the lives of those they love.

    The person I knew was a well educated professional of great renown within his field. He ended up spending over $10,000 on prostitutes in one year's time and contracted a horrid case of scabies. That is how his wife found out. But even after that he could not stop himself. His wife took away all his credit cards and put him on a very short leash and then found a place that treated this type of addiction. (this was before Clinton made this kind of addiction public knowledge) My friends then spent $20,000 on a residential program and thousands more on follow-up therapy that lasted over three years to gain back control of his life. They did this all out of pocket because it was not a recognized problem by insurance companies back then.

    His wife of 24 years stayed with him but she admits that she will never trust him fully again and always uses a condom when they have sex for fear of contracting a STD. He admitted to viewing this garbage as a youngster having fished it out of a neighbors trash and had viewed it whenever he could thereafter. From magazines he had esculated to phone sex and watched PPV movies after his wife went to bed. He payed the bills so she only found out after the fact, With the comming of home computers and easy access to the stuff online he was quickly and easily out of control.

    So besides the psycological factors that viewing this extreme stuff can have on vulnerable youths and the distortion of sex and the objectifying of women, there are other factors to consider in all this.

    I am anything but a prude but I am a big proponent of a porn free lifestyle all the same. There are many healthy pastimes that can make a person feel good. Next time you catch him at it, have him go help out at the local food pantry or ASPCA or something else worthwhile instead. -RM
     
  19. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    You have gotten some great advice and view points. The responses you posted give me a far better view of that is going on. In many ways I am envious of your way of life. I do think that kids have to be taught how to handle the internet and computers, but it won't happen at the same age for all of them. They do NOT need access to it as early as many get it. When and how should be up to the parents, not teachers who now don't want to do the work of researching and planning lessons with-o the computer. The vast majority of teachers are not like that, and given a true understanding will work to accommodate a child's needs. But the ones who are overly dependent on computers are often incredibly vocal, making the 80/20 rule evident in yet another issue (It says that 80% of the population has no problem with any specific thing and those people comprise only 20% of the debates on whatever the issue is. The 20% who object are so vocal as to make 80% of the outcry over whatever it is).

    Your son's fatigue makes me incredibly curious. What health issues have been investigated with regard to this? As it has been his way for so long, it may be that docs ignore it - also because of his age they may ignore it. It is NOT typical for any child. Has anyone ever investigated if he could have chronic fatigue syndrome or if he has pain maybe fibromyalgia? The need for sleep just sounds so much like it. The other thing I wonder about is food allergies. Hve you tried a casein free/gluten free diet and along with that removed as many artificial flavorings and preservatives as possible? For those who cannot handle dairy or wheat this can make a HUGE, difference in energy level and behavior - including executive function and social skills. One child I know described it as having been walking around in a haze or fog for all his life until he was on the diet for several weeks. This kid is NOT prone to insight or description of anything, esp how he feels and it was incredible the way he could describe it. Also incredible was how one small snack with gluten or dairy (casein is a protein found in milk) brought the fog and exhaustion back to him. It might be worth a try, maybe offer an incentive if he will help you with this diet change and stick to it for a month or six weeks. I have quite a few recipes for making your own mixes to cut out preservatives and artificial ingredients because those are the problem for my kids and myself. There are a LOT of girlfriend/cf cookbooks and recipes online also.

    Another thing that might help is to see what sensory issues he has. They can be hard to endure if you have them and those that do not have NO idea what they are like. But basically it means the brain doesn't handle sensory input properly. Therapy requires NO medications usually. My youngest has significant sensory problems and the therapy has helped a LOT - he can now attend school every day for most of the year when in past years he missed 1/4 or more of the days each quarter. Basically he missed 9 weeks of school in a year (or more) from grades pre-k to 3. Grade 5 he didn't miss any days before winter break and after missed some but not for sensory issues overwhelming him.

    Many people will tell you he is "too old' for the therapy. I was told that about my older two after my youngest was diagnosis'd. I did the therapy for each of them anyway and it made a big difference in many ways. The Out of Sync Child by Kranowitx explains this and the therapies for it. The improvements are often almost immediate AND they increase as you continue to do them. Best of all, they are not invasive (no medications), not unpleasant for most kids, and you can do them at home. You have to be trained in the brushing therapy because if not done properly it can mess up his body as much as it could help if done properly. Once trained (takes maybe 10-15 min for that) you do it at home, as well as providing the types of sensory input he needs.

    I am not sure where you live, but do they have domestic violence centers there? Here they are in most communities and offer free individual and group therapy to both victims of domestic violence and the perpetrators. This includes kids in both groups. I sought help from them after I had to make my 14yo leave our home for good because he was beating me. I couldn't even SAY it for quite a while after it happened, not to anyone in my "real" life. I was the first parent to go there because her child was beating her where I was not elderly and the child was a teen. Sadly I was the first and they have had a LOT more like me since then. They may be able to help show him that porn hurts people. Marg's approach is definitely recommended, but hearing the message from someone who is NOT a parent or teacher of his may have more of an impact. the tdocs so far are certifiably crazy to say that what he is doing is "normal" - no way is it normal if the principal says it is worse than any he has seen before.

    As for how to know if he was ever molested, you should NOT ask him. This would need to be done by someone trained in how to interview children who are possibly victims of sexual abuse. If you ask someone, esp a child or teen, if something happened and you keep asking it no matter what they say, eventually they will give you the answer that they think you want - they think it is what you want to hear. Sadly they often start to believe it is true when it isn't - and by eventually I mean in a twenty or thirty min interview or in having the question asked once or twice every couple of days for a week or two or three. This is why there are people trained to do these interviews - and why you do NOt want a beginner to do the interview.

    I hope something here helps. These are what came to mind as I thought about your problems - ignore everything that doesn't sound like a good fit for your child and situation.
     
  20. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Just a quick note on the subject of sexual molestation - never underestimate the damage that can be done by other kids. Especially if the molesting child was an abuse victim. When this happened to easy child I thought it was a rare event, but I've since heard about it happening at our local school (30 miles from where easy child was molested, a decade earlier) and I have heard about it in other places too. It seems it gets a lot less recognition because it's kids doing it to kids and in the minds of a lot of adults, there's nothing that bad that kids can do. Don't you believe it! The things a scared, disturbed kid can do to another child they perceive as someone they can pass it on to, can be terrifying. We still don't know what was done to easy child and we never will find out now, she blocked it out after about five years. But because of how it was handled, it is still in there doing damage to her, I believe.

    About whether your son is Aspie or not - it doesn't matter if he doesn't qualify for a diagnosis, he has some similarities and so some of the ways to manage may be similar. That is all. I KNOW Asperger's well, so that's the angle I communicate from. I was not meaning to say that your son definitely has it, only that it can be a useful working hypothesis when nothing else is working. That's why I talked about the possibility of "some component of autism" - it is possible for a person to have some traits, but not enough for a diagnosis. More than possible, it is quite common, especially if there are other issues such as ADHD.

    Marg
     
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