Introduction: I'm not alone

[2much2recover]

By the way, I didn't drink, do drugs or smoke while I was pregnant with my daughter either It's DNA people - the personality disorder can turn more violent if the child is dealt with in a physically or emotionally harsh way but it is DNA! HELLO!

 

[InsaneCdn]

2m2r... There are three common causes of the behaviors the original poster talks about. These are Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD), Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS)/Fetal Alcohol Effects (FAE), and... yes, DNA. There are other less common causes also.

We didn't know if this child was adopted or not. OP has confirmed the child was not. I should have asked that first, though, because both Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) and Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS)/Fetal Alcohol Effects (FAE) are more often associated with adopted kids.

 

[2much2recover]

But the mother (OP) never SAID that the child was diagnosed with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS) or Fetal Alcohol Effects (FAE) is why I thought your comments were UN-called for. Why start out putting blame on a parent who has come here for help? It is certainly not a way to welcome someone to the group. It is: "WHAT DID YOU DO to screw up your child so badly?" (In this case as with most that are here because they DO care about their kids)
Well Insane Canadian why don't you please explain to all of the rest of us what you did to make your child come out so screwed up?? Or maybe you adopted so you have an out??? It is just plain rude to ask people these type of questions. If you can't be supportive than just skip posting.

I am calling you out on it because if this were a real world support group I would do the same thing. I have seen you post other UN-helpful responses but this one really ticked me off.

Ask yourself, have you been here too long? As my mother taught me, if you can't say anything nice.............

 

[BusynMember]

I think Insane's questions were fine. We have asked these questions since forever. I've been here a decade. Sometimes the kids ARE alcohol affected for various reasons. And the other issues she raised are also valid. I was thinking myself of attachment disorder and wondered if she were adopted. I'm not going to stop asking questions because I feel that is trying to hlep. My son actually WAS exposed to drugs and alcohol and was adopted. And there have been people who have come here who drank during their pregnancies and it has been addressed without hard feelings.

Insane has been here a long time and I've never seen her rude or inappropriate and think she is well-liked in the community.

Anyhow, I support being able to ask questions to try to help find answers and as far as a decade back, we always did.

 

[BusynMember]

I am calling you out on it because if this were a real world support group I would do the same thing. I have seen you post other UN-helpful responses but this one really ticked me off.

It is best to leave your issues at the door here. There will always be triggers, but telling somebody your feelings privately to me is more appropriate than on a forum. I don't like forum fighting. And I've done it!!! But I've apologized and realized I was wrong. I don't think the entire community needs to know your opinion. Or mine. This is not a real life group therapy session where one therapist sits in the front of the room and moderates the discussions...and some really seem to enjoy group confrontations. Been to enough groups to know that. However, this place is different.

You can PM the person privately and nicely discuss it. Then it is up to the person you brought up your issues to to decide if she feels the point is valid. We take what we like and leave the rest. Trust me, if something is truly inappropriate, the mods are great. They intervene. But this was not a case like that.

 

[Wiped Out]

I also did not find offense at Insane's questions. In no way did I feel she was blaming but trying to find out more info to be more helpful.

 

[2much2recover]

The reason I thought is was important, right now as I look at the board we have 225 guests not posting. Obviously through the recent change of difficult child to D C this board is trying to attract new posters. Just because it is always the way something has been done, doesn't make it always right. While I respect your opinion MWM, that it should have been posted in PM, however others wouldn't have benefited including all those who read the posts but are afraid to tell their stories. They also would not have seen that others, like myself, disagree with how a new poster is sometimes being mistreated and or understand that the group as a whole is not stuck in negativity or afraid that their stories will too be judged. I just don't believe we hit people with things like accusing them of being an alcoholic pre-natal and then expect people who may have done it and have now changed their ways to post after they see judgmental comments (or other such situations). I think it is always best for a new poster to get out their own story first, and once you know their story comments and suggestions can be made. I realize that this is not a PROFESSIONAL REGULATED board, (I realized that after some crap I saw going on around the holidays) however that makes it even more important for us to self-regulate what we say and how we address others. Mutual respect is never a bad thing. Ever. In a real life group the person making the misstep would be called out on their inappropriate behavior - I hope you are not suggesting that everyone just post whatever without first looking at the purpose or the consequences. Or the long time members don't have it in them to accept criticism when they offer hurtful suggestions?? If that's the way it's always been done, and the group has less posters than non-posters, maybe that's one of the reasons and maybe it is time for a change.

It concerns me to see so many "readers" and they are not posting - it also makes me wonder why and then I will see a comment and understand why. I have both considered leaving myself, and PMed people to convince them not to leave after harsh statements were directed at them. I have personally witnessed posters doing what in therapy is called "transference" where the poster was taking out their own foul moods on others and it ain't pretty.

As for wiped out, I am glad that your feelings were not hurt and you feel comfortable to stick around!

 

[runawaybunny]

But the mother (OP) never SAID that the child was diagnosed with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS)) or Fetal Alcohol Effects (Fetal Alcohol Effects (FAE)) is why I thought your comments were UN-called for. Why start out putting blame on a parent who has come here for help? It is certainly not a way to welcome someone to the group. It is: "WHAT DID YOU DO to screw up your child so badly?" (In this case as with most that are here because they DO care about their kids)
Well Insane Canadian why don't you please explain to all of the rest of us what you did to make your child come out so screwed up?? Or maybe you adopted so you have an out??? It is just plain rude to ask people these type of questions. If you can't be supportive than just skip posting.

I am calling you out on it because if this were a real world support group I would do the same thing. I have seen you post other UN-helpful responses but this one really ticked me off.

Ask yourself, have you been here too long? As my mother taught me, if you can't say anything nice.............

I think this is a good time for us to re-read DammitJanet's advice about keeping our community "a soft place to land for battle weary parents".

As a moderator and long time member here at ConductDisorders I would like to take moment to remind everyone of why we are here. We are "a soft place to land for the battle weary parent." No more and no less. We need to always strive to treat each other as such. No one on here is an expert but we are valiant warrior parents who love our children, both minor and adult, as much as any other parent.

Please remember when replying to someone to take a moment to read what you have written before you hit the send button because words can hurt feelings. If you fear something may be misunderstood, maybe rewrite it. Or dont send it. Try to think if you would like to receive a comment that might upset you. Remember the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Thanks so much. I know we are a great team here.

 

[BusynMember]

Ok, so I'm confused at to who this message is for? All of us, I know, but is this to say Insane was wrong? I personally trust the mods to tell me if I'm out of line and would rather not have anyone else take that on. The mods are long time members and care a lot for the board and I can only imagine how much time they spend working here for no pay.

Most people are shy about posting on forums and most will never post, and their reasons are more likely to be that they are afraid of somebody recognizing their story or other reasons. We are not just here for people to post. People learn and find support by just reading too. Some don't like to engage.

2Much, with all respect to you, and God knows you have had a ton on your head, you can be harsh yourself in your answers when you respond. So can I. I am trying to work on that regarding myself. We hope...we never offend anyone, but we could. The poster did not say she was offended. If she was, would that not be her place??

Ok, well, I'll let the mods take over now. I just wanted to get that out. I feel I've been here long enough to speak my mind too

P.S.--I sure miss Janet and hope she is doing ok.

 

[InsaneCdn]

It concerns me to see so many "readers" and they are not posting - it also makes me wonder why and then I will see a comment and understand why

Maybe. Or... maybe not.

I was a lurker for over 4 years before I posted anything.
My situation is so unique that it is still difficult to post much about it on the board, because it would be self-identifying. That catch-22 of how to post and still be anonymous was the thing that held me back.

There were "board wars" going on back then - these did not scare me away at all. We are all still people, and some of us have sensitivities in certain areas. It happens in real life, and it's going to happen on the board too.

We welcome guest readers. Some of them will find what they need and may never post, and they are welcome to do that. Others will eventually speak up, and we welcome them to do so. I guess you could say we are an equal-opportunity board?!

 

[runawaybunny]

I believe that we all have good intentions here. We're not professionals, therapists, or experts. We are parents who have been through the wringer more times than we can count.

It is understandable that two people interpret the same words in very different ways. The complexities and depths of life experiences and assumptions are different for every person.

We all have our own realities. Anais Nin said “We don’t see things as they are, we see things as we are”.

I also like to keep in mind what Fran used to say: "take what you can use and leave the rest."

 

[mjhawks]

Let me speak up here:
I was offended to be asked that question in that matter. It did feel like like a "matter of fact" what did you do wrong. But I took a breath, assumed the asker was having a bad day, and as such didn't think about the tone. With that I was able to give a short to the point answer and move on. We are all human. And, really, nothing you guys say could ever be as bad as what DQ says to me.

Now if we could all just move on that would be splendid.

 

[Wiped Out]

Thanks MJ for speaking up. I'm sorry you were offended. I'm sure IC was not trying to be blaming. Please stick around as we really do aim to be a soft place to land. Love your attitude about moving on. You rock!

 

[mjhawks]

You rock!

I am, in fact, awesome. And it would take a whole lot more than that to scare me off. I live with a sociopath for Christ's sake. Also, f*** is my favorite word.

 

[2much2recover]

Personally I am trying to drop this as the moderator has posted a link to acceptable behavior and I respect that. Beat the horse if you must but I have my answer via runawaybunny

To mjhawks: I am sorry you were offended and I am glad you are giving the group a second chance.

 

[Confused]

mjhawks, it does sound as if your ready for her to move out. What about her going to a hospital/residential? Juvenile Hall? Could you have help come in or her move with someone else meanwhile? Its tough to get the correct people to help or at least help to cope with our kids, I understand! ( Plus Im a single mom too) Hugs

 

[2much2recover]

You have mentioned the cutting that she does, isn't there anywhere that you can report her self-abuse to?

 

[mjhawks]

What about her going to a hospital/residential? Juvenile Hall? ( Plus Im a single mom too) Hugs

I would love for her to go to residential But before they will consider that option here, we must go though a series of hoops to see if it can be avoided. She currently has an inhome therapist, just got bumped up to 4 days a week. She's here for 2 hours at a time. On call 24 hours a day, which is nice.

This is DQ's final step before residential.

During yesterdays visit, when asked why she behaves like this at home, and not at school or with her therapist, she answered, "Because I can do what I want here. They're always going to be my family no matter what." I had to get her attention and look her dead in the face, "No, you WILL NOT always have us if you continue with your behaviors."

You have mentioned the cutting that she does, isn't there anywhere that you can report her self-abuse to?

It's well documented. She has been hospitalized twice for this. They keep her less than a week. This action is acute, so once the danger has passed they let her go.

Yesterday I broke it down for her:
If you hurt me, if you hurt your sister, I will have you arrested, and then I will call CPS and report you to them, because it's my job to protect Itty Bit. At that point I doubt you will have a home.

 

[2much2recover]

During yesterdays visit, when asked why she behaves like this at home, and not at school or with her therapist, she answered, "Because I can do what I want here. They're always going to be my family no matter what." I had to get her attention and look her dead in the face, "No, you WILL NOT always have us if you continue with your behaviors."

I think you should start to document these types of things she says. Obviously she is pulling one over the therapists - and you need to show the documentation that you keep with the therapist. I don't know what your insurance is, but if you are not happy with the results that your daughter is having with the therapist assigned to her (or that daughter is able to manipulate him/her, ask for another or switch companies if you feel that daughter is not showing results other than conning therapist. (easy to do if she is on medicaid) not many people understand that you have the right to choose providers, (at least it was that way with my sister who had medicare and medicaid)

ODD or sociopath excel at conning people, so document everything any way that you can. Video is a great one - if you can capture her true behavior on video you will get a head of the game. Lucky she is under age here, because I believe you can legally document what goes on in your own home with a minor.

Other ways to document - text, take pictures of what she destroys, document what she steals, and maybe have your other daughter keep a log of incidents too - with two sets of documentation it is going to be really hard to deny what is really going on. Don't be afraid to call DCF if you feel the younger child is hurting the younger, even if it is mental or emotional abuse.

With a sociopath you have to look at the situation as a war that you are determined to win, because in reality that IS where your daughter is! I I were you, with another child to protect my battle cry would be: OUT you go, away from where you can harm your sister or me! I can share other ways to ensnare her in her own trap but probably best to do it through PM so PM me if you would like some ideas.

 

[Confused]

During yesterdays visit, when asked why she behaves like this at home, and not at school or with her therapist, she answered, "Because I can do what I want here. They're always going to be my family no matter what." I had to get her attention and look her dead in the face, "No, you WILL NOT always have us if you continue with your behaviors."

Ok, First time I tried to quote! I don't know how it will be!!! Ok, My son said " because your my parents" wait what? ( Thats one of the things I accomplished with him this last week that I wasnt going to post yet, but your going through this too. Same with his Encopresis, he said " doesnt always change because hes "lazy" or "busy"". But personally he knows it bother us as well, so its another purposely done issue on that I think. Why do they think just because we are their parents they can do this? Are we"easier" then others? Maybe tired of it and just dont want any more drama, its an exhausting battle I just had to write you before my caffeine( hehe) because my son said similar. But he didnt say that we " "always going to be my family no matter what " like your daughter said, when I asked dont we deserve the same respect as others? He didn't say any thing. See, my son hasnt let "loose" on neighbors or the school yet( thank goodness) but has a few times looked like he was, slammed a door, wouldnt answer them etc, so he is slowly starting to get more "comfortable" with them, esp neighbors kids getting bossier etc..

Im hoping in home therapy will also help mine, Im glad your another person trying it, I think its good to see how the kids and parent are in their own comfort of the home. I hope things get better for your daughter and your family. Also love your answer and your right, they need to understand they are hurting us, but esp themselves, and family can only take so much.