Is Dog Whisperer methods too harsh?

Star*

call 911........call 911
MWM,

I applaud you for wanting to do better with your furkids in the house. That said - I would encourage you to get an entire picture of dog training. First, and foremost I am and never would discourage any training at all for a dog, but what I would encourage is for you to get an entire picture from beginning to end instead of starting in the middle with some intense training tools.

Caesar and the British woman are both masters in training. It's enjoyable to watch them both on television, but as masters of training what you don't see in 30 minute segments on tv is them training the humans for more than a day off camera. lol. The dog will usually "get it" with a qualified trainer in under 30 minutes. The human - lots more training. lol

A lot of things go into training a dog. First - time, practice, daily routines. Training WITH a trainer would be my first recommendation. Like at a dog training class. Petsmart usually has classes or call around or check places like kennel clubs or ASPCAs & vets for low-cost training classes.

Another thing to consider is with Cocker Spaniels they are a hunting dog. It's in their blood to hunt, run, chase - GO GO GO is in their DNA. What does he get to chase down or hunt on a daily basis? What kind of wear him out exercise is he getting? Chasing a ball? Running? Walking? How about a dog treadmill? I think if he had some kind of running/wearing out activity he would be a lot easier to handle on a daily basis. Training a cocker is easy - they are brilliant dogs. Extremely intelligent. He needs a challenge.

I would also check into a nylon choker. Starting out in obedience - both of you might find it a little easier and forgiving while learning the paces. And as always remember that your mind has to be in a very mellow and calm place and think Zen Puppy. lol. Be one with the leash.
 

DaisyFace

Love me...Love me not
Star--

That is such a good point. In fact, one of the things that you learn by reading Cesar's book is that his "pack" is walked for several HOURS every morning through the mountains. By the time he meets with clients or the camera crew arrives, his dogs are literally EXHAUSTED. They get it at least eight hours of steady exercise every single day.

--DaisyF
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
Just a note -

WE have Bulldogs - An American Bulldog,A Pitbull and a Pootie;). All are High energy and will do very mischevious things if not exercised. Pootie will dig holes and has the capacity to dig like a Caterpillar backhoe, Bull will run and bark and bark and bark and bark at UFO's, and bark. Casper will sneak things and blatently chew. So every day for about an hour - they chase balls and KONGS. They also get different snacks, pnut butter on a stick - and we try to rotate the toys so they don't get bored. That seems to help.

DF said he's pretty sure all the neighbor dogs hate our dogs. Casper the American Bulldog says they all just want to come play at our house. ;) But he's so protective of his Tiara and feather boa collection. :anxious: The days we walk, or work, do school and play we don't have holes, or barking or chewing. IF we forget or go on vacation and someone doesn't listen to us and thinks they can get away with 10 minutes of activities and calls it good? I could literally have a bombing range in my back yard and be missing the tires off of a car.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Hi. Thanks for more feedback. We are working with a trainer, but we can only afford him once a month and do the "homework" while he's gone.

Secondly, my cocker has a low IQ :tongue:. Not really, but he's very stubborn, and is also not very active. He's almost seven years old now and tires out the fastest of my three dogs. When I take him to the dog park, my cockapoo is still running around while ole Rufus is huffing and puffing and laying down. He does have a small heart murmur, but it's not a bad one. Maybe that's why he's not that active. My border collie mix has bursts of energy, but she tires too. She is almost eight, although she's in fine shape. She is my smartest, most obedient dog.

I've seen an improvement already, but some walks are better than others. Also, my cockapoo used to mark everywhere in the house so he couldn't go on our carpeted areas. Neither could Rufus. After Prince would pee, Rufus would mark. Now Prince has only peed about five times in five days (he usually pees five times an hour or any time I put anything on the floor). Rufus hasn't peed at all. Baby steps.

I'm going to look into various collars. I'm not a big person and if they pull at all, it is easy for me to lose my grip.

If anyone is still reading this, I would also like to know how to get a dog to lose weight? I take Rufus to the dog park 4-5 days a week and walk him twice a day and he doesn't eat much in the morning (hates plain dry dog food, which is what they get in the AM). At night they all scarf down dinner because I mix the dry with the wet stuff. I can't figure out how he isn't losiong weight. He's a large cocker, but even so he weights 35 lbs. and that's just too much. Maybe that also slows him down.

All three dogs gained weight after they were neutered/spayed, but he gained the most.

Thanks, all you Dog Trainers on CD :peaceful:
 
N

Nomad

Guest
Glad your pups are doing better. I wish there was a CM for my husband's new kitty, who seems developmentally delayed and a little difficult child-ish. Personally, I think CM is great!

I don't truly know how to "get" a dog to lose weight. However, our dog lost weight when we simply slightly reduced her food intake and gave her less daily treats. We simply broke her daily treats in tiny pieces...One or two treats would last an entire day. Bottom line...we rreduced her daily calorie intake. We also played with her more. It took a LOOOOONG time, but she did lose weight. Oh and we measure her food...there is no guesswork.

Below is something I have kept with me for awhile...perhaps you would like it:

Cesar Milan and His Thoughts
Parade Magazine
January 2009
Apparently, by working with animals, this dog trainer has learned many of life's most valuable lessons. He mostly refers to his work with pets, but mentions how some of his thoughts would apply in all relationships, including those involving people.

Some items...

Live in the moment....don't look back...don't worry about the future.

Nurture a balanced life...exercise, discipline and affection daily.

Trust your instincts...pay attention to non verbal cues.

Be direct and consistent in your communication..not matter what species, great relationships begin with clear and consistent communication. We teach people how to treat us.

Learn to listen...make the time to lend an ear to those you love or for those who want to transform their lives. Don't try to fix their problems.

Don't hold grudges...try to resolve the problem at hand and move forward quickly.

Live with purpose...don't get bored...contribute...we have an inborn need to work/contribute.

Celebrate every day...rejoice in life's simplest moments. Enjoy and celebrate gifts given to you.

:D
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Thanks, Nomad! I've actually read a Cesar book and he relates his philosophy of life in his book. I think he's wise. Dogs can teach us so much. If we all lived like dogs (minus some of their disgusting habits like how they greet one another :sick:) we'd probably all be a lot happier! :D
 
N

Nomad

Guest
I forgot something...

When we reduced her food intake, we also added Nupro Vitamins.

They are in powdered form...and you add water. This makes like a "gravy."

My dog LOVES IT! She did not notice that she had slightly less food and I believe the product is good for dogs.

There are two formulas...we recently switched to the one with chondrointin (sp?) in it, since our dog has a back problem. It comes in a silver can and I have to get it at a speciality shop for pets in my area. The regular Nupro vitamins comes in a gold can.

I'm not sure if they are sold at places like PetCo, etc. I had heard from on line dog lovers that the Nupro brand is one of the better ones and I have noticed that she seems really energetic and happy lately.
 

Marguerite

Active Member
MWM, on the subject of dogs needing to lose weight:

We pet-sit for friends nearby and I CAN'T get through to them that their animals need to be separated to eat. They get on OK, they're good friends, but the dog is getting fat and the cat is getting thin. They feed the dog cat food (because they say for some mysterious reason, she prefers it). And I keep getting told, "That cat - she is a glutton! She heads for her food and gets stuck in, she eats far too much. It's amazing how quickly she goes through her food. Never leaves a scrap."

I tried to say, "Your dog is getting fat because she eats the cat's food."
I got told, "The dog can't eat the cat's food because the cat always finishes it all."

But I've stayed to watch - the cat's food is always finished, sure - because THE DOG pushes the cat aside and finishes off the cat's food, after her own. And of course, because the cat is eating pure protein, the dog has developed a taste for the pure protein food too and isn't eating the more omnivorous diet a dog should have.

I can't convince them. And so the cat gets thinner and looks malnourished, while the dog is increasingly pudgy and wheezes around everywhere.

What we do when we pet-sit - we tag-team. We keep the dog outside and feed the cat first. While the dog is making a fuss outside the cat doesn't eat well so we take the dog for a LOOOONG walk. Then when we get back - I keep the dog outside, go inside to see how the cat is going, then any food left in the cat's bowl gets put back in the fridge. Often I found that the cat had only eaten less than half the food I put out for her. Then I feed the dog in the dog's bowl. I've never seen the cat eat any of the dog's food. And I do stay and watch.
We often take the dog back to our place - at which time I put the cat's food back out for it.

There have been a few times when the dog has rushed in and I couldn't stop her, and if there is any food in the cat's bowl, the dog wolfs it all down really quickly and licks it all clean.

The owners just don't believe me; I can't get through. I try to explain and all I get is, "Yep. That cat sure eats a lot for a cat, she's a pig."

last time we were pet-sitting, we had the animals for a week and the owners hadn't left enough food. So I went to the store and bought DOG food for the dog and made sure she had nothing else to eat. And - she liked it!

I watch the dog eat and she finishes her portion off really fast, then looks up for more. She's an appealing thing, has a pretty face and big eyes so I suspect she's been playing on her owners to spoil her. But they still insist on feeding both animals side by side in the kitchen at the same time, then they walk out of the room. They come back in and find that no matter how much food tey have put down for the cat, it still acts like it's ravenous even though its bowl is empty. So no wonder they think thr cat is a glutton!

idiots...

Poor dog - if you feed a dog only protein, it can do so much damage to them. The poor thing was getting no fibre to speak of so pooping was a problem. It also affects their bladder too. We'd take her for a walk and see the poor thing trying to strain and produce nothing.

So a strong suggestion - if you can't work out why your dog is overweight and can't lose no matter how much you exercise her, check what food is available for the dog to eat. Does she clean up the bowls of the other animals? If she gets out of your yard, check if neighbours leave food out for their pets and if their animals are eating more than they think is reasonable.

I had a pet kitten back before husband & I married; the cat was always hungry. We lived over the road from a fish market and I would buy fish scraps for the kitten. One day the kitten ate a filleted whole fish that was bigger than it was. It was the only time I heard the cat purr...
Then the kitten would go next door and get fed leftover Big Macs, then would visit a little old lady over the back fence who fed every cat in the neighbourhood on tinned sardines.
My cat went missing (on a number of occasions) and I would go track him down and find a number of neighbours each of whom thought he was THEIR cat, because they fed him regularly.

Eventually he never came home again. He was wearing a name tag with my phone number (but that never seemed to stop other people calling him their cat). I did get a phone call from someone who lived with the little old cat lady, telling me to come get my cat and take him home. But every time I did, my cat would leave again. So I let him. I'd had him neutered anyway, I often wondered if that was when my cat stopped trusting me...

Yeah, anyway. So check what your dog is REALLY eating. Be prepared for the dog to be devious about it, too. They will go bury food for later consumption, we had one dog that used to steal what food it could get and go bury it. Come to think of it, she had a weight problem too...

Marg
 

donna723

Well-Known Member
A dog will actually eat less and may lose a little weight if they are eating a very nutritious food. They eat less because their nutritional needs are being met with less of a volume of food. Many of the cheaper foods are mostly fillers, artificial flavors and colors, with some vitamins thrown in. Many of these foods are sprayed with LARD or other similar things to make them taste good to the dogs but they also pack on the pounds.
 

susiestar

Roll With It
Here is a list of dog foods that has an analysis of the nutritional value. http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/

It is an excellent resource. My cats LOVE Taste of the Wild cat food. I wrote to them and asked for samples and WOW! They both just loved it. They also ate a lot less. It makes them satisfied on half the amount of cat food that they needed from the store brands.

Many dog food co's have food that is designed for less active animals who need fewer calories. it can be very useful. My aunt uses one brand that helped 2 of her dogs lose some weight very easily.

It is good that you are working with a trainer. While there is a lot of homework, it is still a valuable investment. Having a month between lessons means you have time to spend really working on each lesson until you and the dogs really have a handle on it.

Keep up the great work!
 
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Fran

Former desparate mom
I agree with Donna about less of the best is better than a lot of the cheapest.
My sis has a very overweight lab. She reduced the dry and throws in 1/2 can of green beans as filler.

I have my dogs almost grain free. They get veggies and nutrients in their food but almost no grain. I also limit treats. Training treats are broken into almost crumb size so they don't get over fed.
I will shred some cheese on their food at times and do a cooked egg every week for variety and their coats.
None of my dogs would be mistaken for skinny but I try to feed them in a healthy way. In the heat we are experiencing their exercise is severely limited but Cowboy has lost more than 10lbs since Honeysue died because I stopped the over indulgent feeding that I figured Honeysue deserved. No more gravy or high fat foods. Dog food with a little additive to keep them interested.
 

donna723

Well-Known Member
MWM, check on the www.dogfoodanalysis.com website and see how Purina measures up to some of the other foods. The Lamb & Rice may be OK in a pinch but for the most part, Purina is junk food for dogs!

Here I go on my soap box again, but ... one thing we've discussed at length on my "other" board I go on, my dog board, is dog foods! And everyone pretty well agrees that most vets have a very limited knowledge of nutrition. The only classes they have on nutrition in veterinary school are taught by representatives of some of the pet food companies! And NOT coincidentally, they are the reps from the same dog food brands that vets sell in their offices - Science Diet and Iams. The vets push these brands because they get a cut of the profits from every bag they sell. They're not as bad as maybe something like Ol' Roy, but there are many other foods out there that are waaaaay better than these. Check out that dogfood analysis website. You have to read the list of ingredients very carefully and learn what some of those terms mean, like "byproducts" and "meat meal" and why you don't want to feed that to your dog! :sick:

Since my own dogs have been eating a premium food, the difference in them is like night and day! Everyone who sees them comments on how good they look! Ragan's allergies are almost completely under control now. Their coats are shiny, they're full of energy, their eyes sparkle and even their breath is nice! It really does make a huge difference.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Ok, what types of dog foods are good for the dogs? I heard that IAMS makes the doggie poop and gas so bad that you can hardly stand to be in the room with your pooch! :tongue:
 

flutterby

Fly away!
And Iams engages in animal testing if that matters any to you.

My vet told me any of the brand name foods unless you have a dog that is sensitive to various things. If your vet recommended Purina, that's what I would use.
 
I love Cesar! His techniques are simple and they work, and I also watch his show when I'm feeling down or lonely because he cheers me up right away with his generous nature. I bought the first two seasons (pricey I know) but I can sit and watch episode after episode.

I was asking my therapist about CM and she thinks he's great. therapist specializes in post-trauma (in people) and has worked with abused dogs as well.
 

trinityroyal

Well-Known Member
I don't have dogs and never have, but I watch the show At the End of My Leash all the time. It's fascinating.

I think it's called In the Dog House in the U.S.

The thing I like best about the show is that the trainer spends more time training the family than he does training the dog. Just like we learn with difficult child behaviour, he shows the families what they are doing to reinforce bad behaviour, and gets them to change that in order to foster good doggie behaviour.

Trinity
 
N

Nomad

Guest
Anyone know of a good grain free dog food? Our dog had a problem with her anal glands recently and one thought was perhaps irritation/sensitivity to her food. Because of her previous back problem, she doesn't do the doggie drag (sorry so gross). So, this is a bit of a (gross) issue and may or may not have anything to do with- sensitivities to food...just that she isn't doing what dogs are suppose to do now and again. :redface::tongue: Additionally, her breath is not so fresh. (All of these things were before the vitamins...so it's not her vitamins). She does have a lot of energy and is very happy though. PM me about your fave food if you think best...I've been on other boards where folks get "touchy" about this subject for some reason.

Trinity...I too think CM and probably other trainers spend just as much time if not more with- the family than with the dog!!! It's soooo interesting!
 
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donna723

Well-Known Member
Nomad, I suggest you go to the www.dogfoodanalysis.com website and check out some of the four and five star foods ... then Google them and see which stores carry them in your area. Usually you have to go to the smaller independent pet supply stores to find them, not the 'big box' stores like Petsmart. Most of the better brands like Wellness and Merrick have a grain-free variety. There is no one food that is right for every dog, you have to experiment a little. But look for a food where the first (main) ingredient is meat - not "meat meal" or "by-products", that doesn't have artificial coloring or flavoring, that has just good, wholesome ingredients. And NO CORN!

But your dog may not even need a grain-free food. Grain-free foods are for dogs that have a sensitivity to them and if anything, having the grains in the food should help the anal gland problems, not cause them. Not exactly dinner table conversation, but a dogs anal glands are meant to empty themselves, and to do this they need nice firm little poops to encourage the glands to empty themselves. Unless there's a definite reason to NOT feed a particular dog the grains, they can actually help prevent anal gland problems. The Merrick that my girls eat has oatmeal in it, very easily digested by dogs and not something that they are usually allergic to. Rice is good too and easily digested.

I have Bostons and it's very common for them to have anal gland troubles. Mine get the food with the GOOD grains, and I also add a bit of green beans and white rice to their food for fiber. They have nice firm little poops and neither one of them has EVER had a problem with their anal glands! The vet always checks them and they're always just fine, never had to have them manually emptied, which is saying a lot for Bostons!
 
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