Is it morally right for us to kick our 19 yo son out of the house?

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Kittycat, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. Kittycat

    Kittycat New Member

    Our son is 19 years old. He graduated from high school last year. He has had most of the symptoms of ODD since he became a teenager. Over the last two years, he has seen 4 therapists briefly. The only one he liked had surgery and retired due to complications from it, after our son had been seeing him for two months. The others were "stupid", and he quit seeing them after between 4 and 8 sessions. He says he is depressed and doesn't need therapy, but does need anti-depressants. He must be in therapy to get anti-depressants; that's the way it is here.

    He is highly intelligent (Mensa member).

    The current situation is this:

    * He is angry because we will not get him an iPhone and buy him a newer used car. He has the use of our old car, which is mechanically sound, and he hates having to drive a large sedan which is 10 years old. He had a cell phone, but he lost it in October. He won't use the flip phone I offered him. He pitched a fit about the iPhone, but now says that I am lying and he merely said he wished he had one. This kind of re-writing history happens with him a lot.

    * He dropped out of community college in mid-October, without telling us. He blamed us for making him go in the first place, and when I pointed out that he has been frequently told over the last 4 years that we think taking a gap year (to work) would be a good idea, he backpedaled and said he is depressed. Recently, his sister heard him tell someone he dropped out because studying took too much time. He also said the teachers were stupid.

    * We told him that he must work 40 hours a week if he is going to continue to live here. He has not looked for a job. He says that he will not work because "it is not worth it" to work for minimum wage. Recently he changed that to not working because he is depressed.

    * He had a minor car wreck (his fault - carelessness - $300-$500 to fix), and refuses to get a job to fix the car because it is unfair for him to have to do that when he can only make minimum wage and his father makes more than that per hour. Thus, it is his father's responsibility to pay for the repair.

    * This past summer he looked into joining the Navy. He won't do so now because he is a pacifist.

    * On Dec. 1st, we told him that we require him to find a job, and in the meantime, gave him a list of things he must do to pull his own weight in lieu of working. These included a few regular household chores, driving his sibling to school for her 7:30 am class twice a week, and driving his siblings to any medical appointments they have, keeping his room relatively clean (free of dirty dishes and trash), and doing his own laundry. We said he would have to move out if he did not comply.

    * All along, up to today, he has refused to do anything we require at least 75% of the time. If we need help with something, he either says no or agrees and then doesn't do it. If we rely on him to do something, like take his sister to school, he says he will do it, but at the last minute refuses to, or simply doesn't show up.

    * I made an appointment with a therapist for him, since he claims he is depressed. He is supposed to go next week. He says he is willing, finally ... I think he plans to enlist the therapist's help to persuade us to let him continue to live here.

    * Every day is the same for him. He stays in his room, only coming out to use the bathroom or to get food. He sleeps. He Skypes with his friends (often all night), he plays computer games (WOW), he watches movies and tv.

    * He gets mad over the smallest things without warning. There are 4 holes in our walls and the frame is coming off around his bedroom door from him slamming it. When he really gets irritated, he will push someone hard or punch them in the arm -- but this has happened only about 6 times in the last 3 years. He yells and throws tantrums once in awhile.

    * He thinks we are unfair to him because we don't require the same things of his siblings. They are in high school, don't have driver's licenses, we live about 20 minutes from town, and two of them have Asperger's Syndrome. They are not similarly situated.

    * His siblings want him to move out. He spent a couple of months away at a university course this summer, and it was very peaceful around here. The only stress was caused by him not contacting us weekly and not responding to our phone calls and emails.

    * I bought a bottle of Crown Royal a year ago, and he drank it sometime between August and October. I bought a bottle (quart-sized) of Irish Whiskey, and within 3 days, all but 2" of it was gone. The bottle had not been opened. A friend of his left his facebook page open on my computer -- to a message from my son offering to pay him $30 to steal a bottle of liquor from his parents. Legal drinking age here is 21.

    * His room smells of pot sometimes. We told him he is not allowed to have illegal substances in the house. I still smell pot from time to time.

    * He lies to us and is very manipulative. He is proud of how manipulative he is. It's hard to tell if he is sincere about anything until he does nothing he says he will do.

    * No consequences matter to him. He can outlast anything, and has.

    * On December 27, we told him he must move out by Feb. 28. He has done nothing since then. This week, we wrote him a formal letter telling him he has to be out by Feb 28. He came downstairs with it, yelled at me, cursed at me, and threw something in the sink very hard, and returned to his room.

    * Yesterday, he explained how he has a neurological problem (depression) and we should not kick him out because he cannot help how he is, and now he'll be going to therapy. Plus, he cannot support himself and has nowhere to go. The odd thing is that he is mimicking his brother's actual major clinical depression, but I think he is pretending. He is not suicidal at all.

    * He thinks he is superior to everyone because of his high IQ. Thus, he listens to no one.

    Our situation is that I have a severe heart condition (heart attack, 9 stents, double coronary artery bypass surgery) and my husband has had 4 strokes. The stress of living with our son's lying, manipulation, defiance, and refusal to do anything is really getting to the rest of us.

    If our son has not gotten his ducks in a row by February 28, we intend to drive him to town on a weekday morning, and let him out of the car. We will give him a flip phone with Net10 minutes on it, $100 cash, and the list posted on the refrigerator with the names and phone numbers of agencies that help the homeless. He won't have a car, or health insurance after March.

    If he has a place to live, he can take the contents of his bedroom and his personal possessions with him.

    We haven't taken his internet away because we are afraid he will retaliate -- that it will send him over the edge into violence against me, primarily, or that he will harm our possessions.

    Is this the right thing to do? Are we being irresponsible, unloving parents ... what if he really does have a mental illness that prevents him from functioning? Should we give him more time to come around? Is the situation really not that bad, and if we weren't emotionally involved, we'd see that? I mean, he doesn't do anything Serious - he's not committed any crimes (except the pot and drinking, and that is kept to a minimum because he ran out of money); he isn't violent; he doesn't have friends (everyone here is too stupid); he doesn't go anywhere; he hasn't stolen anything (except liquor from us). He's not addicted to anything. Basically, he's just lazy, rude, and refuses to cooperate with us in any way.

    What do you all think? I really don't want to make a mistake here. His siblings are seniors in high school. He says that he will never contact any of us again if we throw him out. I told him that we would be very sad about that, but it is his choice.

    Thank you in advance for your advice. I am really desperate, and sad, and angry. Our son has finally broken our hearts. He had everything going for him, and he is throwing it all away, including the love and support of his family.

    Kittycat
     
  2. SuZir

    SuZir Well-Known Member

    Welcome! Happy you found us, sorry you had to.

    To me it sounds you have your ducks well in row. The good news is that if he is just lazy, rude and refuses to co-operate, those are the things that the real world can be very good teacher with. And what you tell to us, that seems to be the matter here. If it is about 'won't', just leaving it to them to survive somehow can be extremely helpful. If there would be clear 'can't'-issues, when you would have a more difficult decisions to do. But even then; safety and peace for you and your other kids are too important to put in risk especially when what he is doing now is not helping him at all.

    If you can afford it all, I would however try to make some kind of therapy available for him, if he is ready to work with that.
     
  3. PatriotsGirl

    PatriotsGirl Well-Known Member

    You are doing the absolute right thing!! Don't doubt that for a moment.

    As far as any sickness, he is an adult and sadly that means only HE can make the decision to get help. If he is clinically depressed, maybe a short stay in a psychiatric ward getting him on the right medications is required. But only HE can voluntarily commit himself. (I would think they could voluntarily commit, but admit, I am not postivie - something to check into. We had ours committed using a text she sent us saying she wanted to die.)

    He is an adult and not following the rules of the home. He needs to learn there are rules in life that we all must follow. You will do him no favors by allowing him to live there while being physically abusive, emotionally abusive and destructive. You should call the police any time he touches someone or destroys something. He must have consequences.

    There is a saying for addicts and the same applies here - nothing changes if nothing changes. As long as his needs are being met, he has a roof over his head and all of the comforts of home all while being the jackbutt that he wants to be, why should he change anything?

    Continue to be a united front with your husband - it is awesome that you are both on the same page. Take comfort in knowing that you are doing the best thing not only for you, your husband and your other children, but for your son, too. It may be the only thing to force him to grow up and be a man.
     
  4. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Not an expert here at all, esp from the parenting side, but in my life, family or friends who acted like that without other disability history were using drugs far more than we knew about.

    He may be depressed, with drugs causing it or making it worse...... I'd guess therapy without treatment won't help as much.

    Many here have been in your shoes. I am sure they'll have better insight. One thing often discussed is that you may need to give legal notice of eviction. You may need to check on the laws in your area.
     
  5. SuZir

    SuZir Well-Known Member

    I would add other addictive behaviours. Symptoms are similar. There I live drugs are much more rare than in the USA but we certainly have our troubled kids. I know several families, there the addiction that has caused this type of behaviour has been something so innocent sounding than computer/console games, WOW being one of the worst. COD being another one. Aside of physical dependency (and many drugs don't even cause that) the issues caused are not that different.
     
  6. buddy

    buddy New Member

    True! I think they go hand in hand too
    And this difficult child is already documented to do both...
     
  7. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    You have everything lined up... Honestly I am not sure I'd give him the flip phone with minutes, but then easy to say, hard to do!

    I wouldn't put up with his garbage. He's using and abusing you. I don't know the whole story of course, but this is what it sounds like to me. The punching people bit really bothers me. And... If he's depressed... The best thing for him is to get help, but you can't help him if he won't help himself.

    *HUGS*
     
  8. scent of cedar

    scent of cedar New Member

    http://drkathleenmccoy.blogspot.com/2012/06/helping-adult-children-through-rough.html

    The site listed above will help you know how to interpret what is happening to you and to your son. It will give you options regarding how to discuss these issues with him, and will help center you and your husband, whichever choice your son makes. It is short ~ just a few paragraphs, but it helped me to stand up again.

    I'm sorry this is happening to you, and to your child.

    Can you afford to rent a room for him? Even if only for one month, knowing you are not throwing him into the street will give you the strength you need to follow through with this child. Maybe check the YMCA? I think your son knows you will not turn him out with nothing. If you have a viable plan for where to bring him, the threat of making him leave will seem more real to him.

    That may be all it takes.

    If renting something for him is a financial hardship, there is a nation-wide number which will connect you to someone who will be familiar with social services programs in your area. That number: 211 They will be able to tell you about local shelters and food banks.

    We did this (including renting the apartment) more than once with our son. It was expensive, but preferable to continuing to live as hostages in our own home. After a certain number of years, with son bouncing into and out of the house, I found this site, and the strength to change my own attitude. Stay with us, keep posting here, listen to the alternatives other parents have explored. You will find a place to stand, here. You will find the strength it takes to let the kids learn from the consequences of their choices.

    Parenting children like ours is a horribly difficult thing. We never know, until it is too late to change it, whether we are making the right choices.

    Your son is betraying you. His task is to move into the next phase of his life. He refuses to go to school, refuses to work for minimum wage, and validates watching video games and Skyping by claiming depression. I would be depressed too, if I were living that life. There is some evidence that creative people are more prone to depression. That may be a fact of life for your son. Don't let him use it as an excuse to destroy himself. I don't think anti-depressants are a good way to go, either. Maybe he could start running or playing basketball, or take a martial arts class?

    And here is the secret: If this is the life your son chooses for himself, that does not mean you need to support him while he does it. You are not asking anything unreasonable of your son.

    I was just thinking about the Armed Services thing. If son is a pacifist, he could join the Peace Corps. At least, that would get him out of the house and out of himself and into a healthier mindset.

    Wishing well, KittyKat.

    :O)
     
  9. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    KIttycat, welcome. I think you found the right place to be. Many of us have been in your shoes. Read our stories, keep posting, it helps a lot. You sound as if you have made some difficult decisions based on your sons bad behavior. Decisions I know a lot about personally. It is devastatingly difficult, but also remarkably necessary. Your son will not launch into his own life as long as you enable his bad choices. You have a right to a peaceful and calm life, and so do your other children. I believe every step you've taken is a reasonable, well thought out very good choice. It's tough, no doubt about it, but you are on the right track. Stay strong, keep posting, if you haven't already, you might try to find a support group or a therapist for you and your husband, this takes an amazing toll on families and you need support too. I have needed a VILLAGE to keep me strong and for me to stay the course. I send you much empathy and understanding and many hugs. I wish you peace amidst the chaos.

    Oh, you might read the article on detachment located at the bottom of my post here..........it helps.
     
  10. Kittycat

    Kittycat New Member


    He did agree to go to therapy if I made the appointment; this after he refused to go for many months after proclaiming himself to be depressed. I may be wrong, but I think that if he goes, it will be to manipulate the therapist into being on his side. Remember, he thinks therapists are stupid... I'll add more info in another post. This will be therapist #5.


    He has no money. He did have $1000 in his savings account that I put there when he enrolled in community college. It was earmarked, and he was fully aware of this, to help us pay for the second semester's tuition. He used it for spending money from August through early November, instead of getting a part-time job. All but $50 was gone, according to his bank statement. I know he bought books (to read, not for school) and cigarettes, WOW, and fast food, and maybe some gas with it. Also pot, but not in large quantities. I put Quicken on his computer so he could budget and keep track of his spending, and reconcile his bank account, but he refused to let me show him how to do that.

    He is certainly wrapped up in his computer usage, and it is definitely not all games. He also does a lot of research in his areas of interest (mainly linguistics, physics, international politics), and edits (corrects) Wikipedia articles. He writes papers on linguistics. He has learned enough of several languages to be able to communicate with them. He went to an international program at a university in another state this past summer, and he met lots of people from a European country. He is fluent (actually fluent, not high school stuff) in another language - self-taught - and he earned 8 upper level semester hours of college credit in it. This is where he first smoked pot and drank alcohol.

    He needs the phone to call organizations that run shelters and to find a job, and in case of emergency. Pay phones are a thing of the past, at least around here. I know because I was in town and had left my cell phone at home -- I found a few pay phones; they were broken or disconnected.

     
  11. peg2

    peg2 Member

    Prayers for you. I had to get an restraining order against my son almost 3 years ago, but the drama continues. He is homeless, it is cold here, but I have tried to offer support by way of fidning a boarding home,etc. and even paying for it for a time. Didn't like it because it required him to go to mental health counseling, which he doesn't think he needs. The story goes on and on, basically what you said in your post, not doing anything, destructive, wanting money,etc.etc. But mine was mentally abusing me, some of what I am hearing with you. I have breast cancer, and it was(is) affecting my health, and that of my family. I wish you didn't have to wait until February to throw him out, if he gets violent then call the police. Your health is more important!!!! Yes, we feel bad they have mental health disorders, but you can't make them see anyone or take medications. Trust me, it will never end if you don't take action. Yes, it is the hardest things I have EVER done and I see a therapist because of it, but we have no choice.
    Good luck and stay healthy, Peg
     
  12. Kittycat

    Kittycat New Member

    I really appreciate the time and thought and that went into your very helpful posts about this situation. Thank you!

    I wanted to add some more information about our situation. In summer 2009, we moved to another state because our income (self employed) had decreased significantly and we had lived in a very high cost of living state. The area we moved to has a shortage of rental housing, and we were finally able to find a house near a small town, after fruitlessly searching for one in the medium-sized city that is 90 minutes away from here.

    We moved from the suburb of a large city in New England to rural area in a Mid-Atlantic state that has 2,000 people, near a small town that has 15,000 people. We moved from a town in which 80% of the adults over 25 had at least a 4-year college degree, to an area (including the small town) where 8% of the people are college graduates. The closest city is medium-sized and is 90 minutes away. The demographics of these two places, in every respect, are the opposite.

    None of us wanted to move, but this was the best place to go of all of our choices. The adjustment was hard on all of us. Until we came here, we did not know that we had lived in a cocoon. It was, frankly, shocking. It's not just demographics, the whole culture is different. Very authoritarian, very boxed in, disinclined to change anything (I mean on a personal level ... we have not charged in and tried to change the town). It's a hopeless place and while I've met people who love living here, nearly everyone says they hate it here. They aren't used to people moving here from elsewhere, either.

    Our son was very angry about this move. However, he had already been making poor grades in school (C's, D's) and refusing to do homework, and acting pretty much like he does now, for several years. He didn't do homework, which sunk his grades, because it was a waste of time. He refused to jump through the hoops and proved his point by making great grades on tests. Also, on all the standardized tests kids have to take on the subjects they are supposed to have learned in high school, he makes top scores.

    He had plenty of friends, but here he cannot find anyone who shares his interests, reads books for pleasure, or who could talk to him without asking him to define the words he used in ordinary speech. (This has been true of all of us, not just my son.) The best you we can say about this place is that the people are generally friendly, my husband can do his work here and travel to various cities when necessary, and the cost of living is 50% less (housing, office space, health insurance). We do not derive any of our income from the small town, but the work my husband does requires him to live in this part of the state.

    So my son wants to get out of here, pronto, and feels helpless. So I told him that his avenue out of here starts with the community college. If he goes there for two years (because of his bad grades in high school), he can transfer to a university in a large city. When his education is complete, he can get a job in a large city in New England.

    He is not willing to do it. He seems to be waiting for ... what? Yesterday, he told me his latest idea for making money is to do voice-overs for commercials. He can make $250 an hour doing that, he says. I just nodded and smiled, and asked him if he knew how to get these jobs. He said something, I don't recall what. I must have tuned him out.

    The thing is, every time he wants to do something, we fully support it. We spent thousands of dollars sending him to this summer program. I thought he would be around intelligent people who are enthusiastic about their areas of interest. They were college and graduate school students who shared this narrow interest with him. I thought he would be inspired by that, come home, maybe take a gap year, and definitely be enthusiastic about going to college. He wants to be a physicist, and an education is required.

    His father and I worked our way through school. He did it by dropping out of college, becoming self-employed and writing a book, and then returned to school and supported himself with his savings and the proceeds from his book sales. I did it by working full-time and going to school full-time at night. So my son has not had the example of parents who have trust funds or wealthy families. My husband and I are people who have always worked hard to achieve our goals. Nothing has come easily to us.

    But our son doesn't seem to get that. His world on the internet is a vast expansion of his world here. No wonder he wants to stay in his room and live virtually, I'd guess you'd say. But he cannot do that and ever hope to live the real life he wants to have.

    We have, as a family of six people, met someone like us exactly once since we moved here. It was the therapist our son liked, the one who retired after having complications from surgery.

    We don't fit in. I get that. Yet we have a family to support, and we are stuck here for the duration.

    I have a husband and two sons who have Asperger's Syndrome. One of those AS sons also has major clinical depression. These two sons are not able to live on their own yet. Now comes this son ... who has everything going for him ... and he's just making life harder for everyone, including himself. He is a triplet, and he refuses to understand that his brothers are different from him. They aren't less intelligent, they just have a lot more challenges than he does. They and my daughter are seniors in high school.

    The son who brought me to these forums has alienated his siblings, too. They are pretty disgusted with him. Hurt, too, because he generally ignores them.

    So, with this additional information, would you change your advice? Something besides take your daughter and the dog, and flee! :) I am just so puzzled. I don't understand how my son could have become the way he is. I don't think its due to where we live, given his history.

    Also, does it sound like my motivation is to get rid of him because he is the one problem child I can get rid of? I know a person can have more than one motive simultaneously, but I want mine to be healthy and pure ... not corrupted by my flaws.

    Thank you, again, for your help.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2013
  13. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Good morning Kittycat. My belief, as well as my experience, is that we parents go through massive doubts, continual questioning and we always wonder if we are doing the right thing. Unfortunately, I think all of your questions are a normal part of this detachment process. Perhaps there is an anomaly once in awhile, a parent who has no doubt, forges ahead and throws their adult kid out and never looks back, but I haven;t read that parents post yet, nor heard of that happening in my limited knowledge. All of your concerns are normal and to me, a part of this. We have to go through so much internal soul searching to be able to do something which for all intents and purposes, goes against all of our natural instincts to protect, nurture, guide, take care of, love and be generous with. It's hard.

    I can understand your concerns about how the move impacted your son and yet, there are options for him to get out of where he is and he is not considering them. I don't believe for one minute you're trying to get rid of him because he is the problem child. He is way more then a problem child, his behavior is abhorrent, disruptive, violent and disturbing. You are reacting to HIM and his behavior and trying to protect your family, your health and your peace of mind from a force which you have no control over and who refuses to take any responsibility for his own life.

    I have a much older child, 40, who is much like your son. She is very, very smart, entitled, not a kind or compassionate person and she has painted herself into a corner with her bad choices. I too don't know how she got this way, and I believe she has some mental issues, but she refuses to acknowledge that or get any help, so I am powerless. I haven't been at this since she was a teen, really, only in the last year since her lifelong bad choices finally caught up with her in a big way. It is heart wrenching to have to make the kinds of choices many of us here have to make with our kids, it creates continual doubts in our minds as we try to understand it and control it and fix it and figure out what to do about it.

    I really think you have done all you can do. You have all your ducks in order. If you haven't already, you might check on the eviction process in your state, in some states, eviction even with your own child, requires a formal, legal eviction process. Your son is so bright, he may have researched this and then can call you on it on Feb. 28th and gain another 30 days or so. Make sure you are legally in the know so you can then prevent him from returning to your home by getting a restraining order should that be the next step.

    I have been in a program for the last year for codependents. I realized there was nothing I could do with my daughter so I went about learning how to take care of me during this challenging time. It has been invaluable, it's given me support, tools, understanding, information and the resolve to continue on this path. I have received so much empathy and compassion which has made this so much easier. I am in a support group with other mothers, some of whom have a very similar situation and I can't put into words how much it means to me to have that kind of understanding from other moms whose hearts are so mangled from this. I have learned so much about how I can let go, why I have to and how to do it.

    All of the therapists I've talked to always tell me that in order for my daughter to have a chance at life, I have to let go. I have to allow her to suffer natural consequences and not step in to help. It is the hardest thing I've ever had to do. She has the capability to launch herself out of where she is, she has chosen not to. That is not to say this is always true for all parents and all kids, but it is true for me and mine. And, I believe it is true for you and yours. You've done a lot for your son, you've given him every opportunity to grow up and he hasn't. Some kids need to be nudged out of the nest so they can grow their own wings. It may be tough, he may be homeless, he may couch surf, he may be in a shelter. That's where you getting support comes in...........so you can cope with what HE does out there, so you can get support to stay the course and try to find a life without his presence, without all of the drama that he brings to you and your family.

    It is a process, you go up and down and sideways. You have many doubts. But, if you have support, you can continue along this journey and find some peace of mind. I'm amazed at how far I've come and how much calm and peace and joy there is in my life now. I still have bouts of real grief, fear for her, moments of difficult feelings, but they pass and then I am back in my own life once again. The pain doesn't really go away, it just subsides considerably over time as I learn how to negotiate this new territory and how to detach from someone I love so much. It's a tough road and I'm sorry you're on it, but since you are, find help for yourself and your husband. Your health demands that you eliminate the stress that your son is causing you. You deserve to have a peaceful life. Is spite of your fears, you're doing a really good job. Hang in there...........HUGS............
     
  14. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    You are not trying to get rid of your son. I have a saying I like to use. "Let them go so they can grow" Its what my father had to do for me.

    Your son is manipulating you to pieces. Every time you make a demand of him he sticks out his lip and pouts. "Im depressed" Oh baloney. Reminds me of a wife who tells her husband every time he wants sex that she has a headache.

    I do like Scent of Cedar's idea of looking into finding him a room for a month so you dont feel quite as guilty about the idea of just tossing him out. That really does tug at your heart. Heck my SO cant put his brother out easily. Im gonna take advantage of that 211 number she posted.
     
  15. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I have not read all the replies. I do think that if you continue to allow him to live in your home you will be doing the WORST POSSIBLE THING that you can do for him. Yes, all caps and everything, I firmly believe this.

    Your son may be depressed. Or not. YOU do not need to be penalized or afraid in your own home because this man-baby doesn't want to grow up. He only learned to say "water" when you stopped giving him a drink when he said "wa wa". He will ONLY learn to support himself and become an adult when you stop caring for his needs. He has it GREAT at your home. No responsibilities, no penalties really for not doing what he should, no school to attend, no job to go to, all day to do what he wants. Wouldn't YOU like that? I bet your parents didn't let you have this for an option, and their parents didn't give it to them as a choice either. Why is it a choice for your son?

    Consider the letter a formal eviction notice. On the move out day, change the locks and put his stuff outside.

    Will this be hard? YES.

    Will he be furious? YES.

    Does this need to happen? YES.

    Why?

    You are enabling him to be a perpetual child. It is preventing him from growing. He clearly feels he knows best how to handle everything, and that it is somehow beneath him to work because his father makes more money. His father did NOT make more money when he was difficult child's age, and he sure as sugar didn't make more money by sitting on his tushie soaking up his parents' money to support a freeloading lifestyle of drinking and drugging and only doing what he wants.

    He really NEEDS to have the responsibility for putting a roof over his head, food on his table, a phone in his ear, and a car to take him around all put back on HIS shoulders. He is an adult. It is time for him to start being an adult.

    I don't really CARE if there are pay phones. He can go buy a phone for ten or twenty bucks and buy his own minutes. I have gone to the city (an hour away, where my doctor is for a chronic condition) without my phone and had zero trouble asking to borrow someone's phone. I always offer to pay, and no one has ever said no to me. Businesses are also willing to let you borrow a phone if you ask. So phones are NOT mandatory regardless of how inconvenient it is to not have one.

    DO NOT give him the car. Take the keys away today, pull the spark plug wires so he cannot take it if he tries to hotwire it, and stop paying his insurance. He can WALK or get a cheap bike and ride. Cars are LUXURIES and if you refuse to work, you don't need one. He has PROVEN he will not do anything to help the family, so let him figure out his own way. Yes, it might be a couple of miles to where he wants to go, but he has feet and they WILL take him there, it just takes a little while to get there. If he wants a car, he can earn some $$ and purchase his own.

    By keeping him at home because he is 'depressed', you are allowing him to wallow in that depression and not do anything about it. If he is truly depressed, the therapist he is to see will be able to help him with that. If he insists that he knows better than you, let him go out into the world and show you that he does. Call his bluff. Allow him the opportunity to show you how much more he knows about the world than you and husband know by allowing him to go and live on his skills and knowledge and abilites. After all, isn't he telling you that he is better/smarter than you when he refuses to do what you ask/suggest/order? Accept his word that he does know better, and give him the opportunity to prove it to you by throwing him out.

    It really doesn't matter what the therapist says, you have to know that perpetuating this lifestyle of his is wrong. Deep down, that is what your gut instincts are telling you. If the therapist says otherwise, let him go live with her on her dime. See what she says after that. You have given him an entire year plus some months after his 18th birthday, and it is time for him to recognize that his 'gap year' is over and it is time to either be an adult or go live in a shelter or under a bridge. He can just walk to the shelters if he needs help, he doesn't need a phone or car to do that.

    I know it will be hard, and he will tug on your heart telling you he is broke, hungry, cold, etc.... Don't buy into it. Tell him you have faith that he can figure out how to solve those problems, that you know he is smarter than you are (even if he isn't) and you are sure that he will prove how smart he is by solving those problems on his own. Look at this as giving him the chance to prove that he really IS as smart as he says he is.

    I can see setting him up for a month in a room somewhere. NOT a nice apartment, just a room. It doesn't matter what hardships he has gone through wth the move, or depression. Life is still going to continue to happen, and he is still going to continue to have to cope with it one way or another.
     
  16. scent of cedar

    scent of cedar New Member

    Nicely spoken, Susie Star.
     
  17. Kittycat

    Kittycat New Member

    Thank you all for your continuing advice and support. I appreciate it very much.

    Something good happened last night. Our son's computer monitor will not respond to his computer. It is broken. He expects us to pay for the repair (probably a new motherboard is needed). We are not going to do that. If he wants his computer to work, he'll have to get a job so he can get it repaired.

    We have 31 days left before he moves out. He has told his siblings that he does not intend to get a job, and that he does believe we really mean it when we say he'll have to move out. For me, this does not compute.

    My mother came riding to the rescue (in a tough love sort of way, though), but he doesn't want to live with her.

    He cancelled his first therapy appointment, which I expected. He made another appointment for this week. Don't know whether he'll go or not. He took the trash out to the curb this morning. He made a scrambled egg for the dog. He sleeps all day and evening, and stays up the rest of the time. He claims his insomnia is caused by his depression. The time or two we see him briefly each day, he is courteous.

    This is like waiting for the other shoe to drop. I have no idea what he has in mind or really, what he is actually thinking and feeling.

    Thank you again for your help and support. You all are a wonderful, welcoming, and friendly group.
     
  18. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Well, he's made it clear hasn't he, no work but moving out. I don't know if you have to go the legal eviction route in your state, but here you do. You can have the sheriff come on the eviction date and escort him out of your home, that is what a few parents I know have had to do. You may want to research that to find out how you can actually force him to leave because he may be just bluffing and has no intention of physically moving. He is so bright that he may have figured something out so it behooves you to be one step ahead of him and to know your rights.

    He really seems to be making a strong statement and digging his heels in. He sounds like he is just not willing to do ANYTHING. It really sounds so childish and immature. You may not find out what he has in mind or what he is thinking, but if I were you, I would make sure he will be leaving in 31 days, something sounds weird to me, as if he knows something you don't know or he thinks you don't know, which is why I'm suggesting you find out if you can legally evict him and exactly what you have to do. He sounds almost smug.

    It's tough, most of us feel like we're waiting for the other shoe to drop A LOT, it's almost a way of life. But, stay the course, you're doing the right thing. Make sure all your ducks are in order and in the meantime try to find support and do things you like to do, enjoy your moments...........HUGS.......
     
  19. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    With your heart condition, if he doesn't move out he will kill you even if he doesn't touch you and it sounds like he HAS gotten violent (holes in the walls?). To me it sounds like he is using drugs that are far more potent than just pot...they all get lazy and many get violent while using. Once they turn 18, if they absolutely refuse to follow your rules, do illegal things, treat you like crapola, expect you to support them completely, as if they are ten years old...it is time to let them learn to take care of themselves. You are being very generous giving him as much time to get his act together as you have and he is basically spitting that opportunity back in your face.
    Give him a list of homeless shelters in the area. Our difficult children tend to really know how to survive once they are no longer in our house. They find others like themselves to take them in (until they get angry or fed up with each other), they find good samaritans to help them out and feel sorry for them (until they get to know them) and some of them actually decide to turn it around.

    You deserve a good life with your husband and kids who are kind and loving to you. You deserve to be healthy and to live a long time. You are doing the best thing for yourself and for him. I have had depression most of my life and t hat doesn't give anyone an excuse to abuse other people. If he feels he is disabled by it, he can go for help and try to apply for SSDI. He probably won't get it, b ut he can try. You are NOT his personal ATM.

    Gentle hugs :)
     
  20. BackintheSaddle

    BackintheSaddle Active Member

    Hello All- I just signed on for the first time after goggling 'kicked 19 yo son out' and this link came up...I'm so broken hearted...I first read Kittycat's message and thought she was describing our son to a T...we just kicked our son out on Saturday because after several threats (coming at me, screaming, fists clenched), he grabbed me and scared the hell out of me (he's 6'2", very very angry and scary)...we called 911 and then my parents who live about 10 minutes away...he went to their house and I went there yesterday to talk about next steps (he's NOT coming home)..my parents, Dad is 78 and Mom is 75, completely turned on me...said I must have provoked him, he did nothing wrong, and I'm the one with issues!....he is sooooo manipulative and a liar and they buy his stories hook, line, and sinker...I have talked to them at length to tell them more about life at our house and in June, they finally agreed he needed to take medication...we made his taking medicine a condition of living at home and he's been hiding pills and not taking it regularly since November....so, now I have a situation where it's all of them (3) against mostly me, though I have a wonderfully supportive husband and father...I was wondering if anyone else has encountered anything like this where the child leaves but the family turns against you and supports the kid? any advice? how do I get through this Christmas? ;-(...he sent a horrible email out today to me, my husband, and my parents that was a raging long thing...and worst part of it was that his tag name for me is '666'....I don't know what I'm asking of you, I just hope someone is online who understands?
     
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