Is the prevalence of difficult child new or just diagnosed more?

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
MWM, funny you should say that about being mentally retarded.
My husband and I went out to dinner tonight and I brought up this subject. He, being a chiro, thinks it's more environmental, but definitely thought it was more media oriented, and we have much better dxs.
He said when we were kids, and our parents were kids, anyone who had problems was "retarded." Carte blanche.
He also pointed out that mental health care really didn't come into its own until after WWII, and then even more after Vietnam, when vets had PTSD. Yes, they had it in other wars, but no one talked about it. And no one would think to make a movie, write a book, or do a TV series on it like people do now.
So, there ya go. One more point of view. :)
 

Marguerite

Active Member
THanks for the links, Terry.

When I say "perceived increase in prevalence" I'm not talking about an increase in diagnosis, because we all know that autism is being diagosed a lot more these days. But ACTUAL prevalence in the past may have been no different, just that the past diagnostic parameters were far more strict and far less applied, than these days. You feel there has been an ACTUAL increase in prevalence to explain the increase in rate of diagnosis of autism, and this may be the case. Or it could simply be that more cases are actually getting seen to, as well as fewer of them falling through the cracks.

The accepted prevalence rate for autism in Australia varies depending on who you talk to, but the highest prevalence figures we are given for autism come from ASPECT (Autism Australia) who claim 1 in 100 with autism. More conservative estimates in Australia also claim 1 in 250.

From ASPECT's website - "Historically, the reported incidence of autism was 4:10,000. This has been revised over the past decade as we have better understood the range of Autism Spectrum Disorders. The most conservative estimate is now 27:10,000 (Fombonne, 2001) but most studies range from 62:10,000 (Chakrabarti & Fombonne, 2000) to 121:10,000 (Kadesjo, Gillberg & Hagberg, 1999) with a number of studies reporting rates in the 90's (91:10,000 Wolff, 1995 and 93:10,000: Ehlers & Gillberg, 1993). As a result, by using Wolff's study or Ehlers & Gillberg's study, the estimated number of people with Autism Spectrum Disorders in New South Wales alone is as high as 60,000, of whom 15,000 are children.

While there is agreement that there has been an increase in the incidence of autism, there is much debate about the possible cause(s) of this rise, with no clear conclusions to date. However, it is clear that assessment services are identifying more children at a younger age, especially those with High Functioning Autism (High-Functioning Autism (HFA)) and Asperger's Disorder."

What they are saying is what I was trying to say - that incidence may not have changed, we're just more likely to find it, recognise it and diagnose it (and hence those figures now become part of our current stats).

Depression, on the other hand, has a prevalence rate in Australia of 1 in 4 at any time in a person's life, 6% of the population in any 12 month period. So especially if you describe autism as a mental illness (which I don't, but some people especially our education departments do) than this pushes up the current incidence stats.

We need to be careful about describing current rates of diagnosis, as equivalent to incidence. Because yes, it IS getting diagnosed a lot more these days.

As for the health of our environment - again, I was speaking locally. Until very recently, all waste from our own property here stayed on site and was completely recycled. We have an extreme filtration system on our drinking water and we water our vegetable garden with rainwater. Where we live, our rainwater is very clean, since it comes in from the sea primarily and we are a long way from any industrial activity. Ours is the first dwelling built on this land, which is mostly sand. There has never been any industrial activity in this area. We grow our own poultry, feeding them from scraps and recycled matter. All animal feed is thoroughly scrutinised and regularly tested to make sure there are no additives.

However, I remember growing up on a farm and being told to keep away from this, stay away from that, go wash your hands after playing with the sheep because they got dipped last week, and so on. We would get slathered with strong pesticides before going out to play (Australia was the dumping ground for a lot of plant poisons and insecticides, long after the US banned them; we got a lot of war surplus post-Vietnam stuff). Our current neighbours used to routinely spray for termites, spiders and ants according to the calendar, ignoring important factors such as rain and wind. Or even whether there was a need. I strongly suspect the unofficial contractor he used was disposing of old, banned pesticides (organophosphates) through his spraying. This has stopped in the last 20 years, purely through lack of availability.

So I grew up in an environment full of chemicals, although they weren't used indiscriminately by my parents (unlike in some places). There were a lot of tight controls on agricultural use in our immediate area because we lived right next door to an agricultural wheat station and the professor who lived there was working primarily on natural methods of controlling pests, primarily breeding in resistance (especially to rust). So when we used chemicals likely to affect the what (such as when we dipped the sheep) we had to tell him what we used, when and how. So we were more aware than most, even though we still used stuff.

Hormones - my father worked for a groundbreaking chicken producer, the first and biggest in Australia. One of my brothers did too, both starting very early in the development of that business. There may have been hormone use early on, but if there were it was stopped by the early 60s because I remember a rather funny joke doing the rounds and I asked my father and my brother about how likely it was, and they said then, that there were no longer any hormones in the chicken feed (they'd probably shifted to antibiotics!).

For backyard producers like us, we would have cut costs by NOT including the hormones and antibiotics. The basic feed didn't have these additives, farmers wanting to use it had to add it (because my brother had the job of calculating for farmers, how much to add). I know it wasn't added at our home, because I helped feed the animals and I was often handling the animal feed for the range of animals we kept. We ate those animals, plus my mother was allergic to most antibiotics (as I am now) and my father wouldn't have risked her. My siblings handled the animal feed even more than I did, none of them are allergic as I am. I think I just inherited my mother's wonky and hypersensitive immune system. My mother certainly didn't get hers form the environment - she was diagnosed as asthmatic when very young (pre WWI), while she was still living on the land at a time when you got your own animals' feed.

It is a bit different in Australia. Sometimes we learn from other countries' mistakes before it happens here (as in thalidomide) and other times, chemicals get dumped onto our market. But generally we know about it, know when and where it's been used (Blue Mountains City Council were infamous for using Agent Orange) and know to avoid those areas.

So I am very aware, also aware that not everybody in Australia in the autism community (for example) agrees with me. I did some digging on the mercury in immunisations question, for example, and was assured from some very reputable sources that we haven't had mercury in Australian immunisations for many years. But an activist on our local committee assured me that mercury is still being used and that I was lied to. She produced a book to prove her point - then I noticed that she is one of the authors of that book. She also did not name her sources in the book, so it does make it difficult for me to accept her claim at face value. However, I am continuing to double-check rather than dismiss her claims out of hand.

One thing I have learnt to be VERY wary of - the automatic "they're lying to you" answer to any such query. Whenever I find a discrepancy in the information, or a claim that seems a bit too out in left field and my scepticism is met with, "But they're all lying to you, the conventional government bodies don't want you to know the truth, they're trying to shut us up, they're trying to discredit us," I have learnt, through my own independent thorough checking, that it's all hogwash, as a rule.

I have met people who made statements that seemed outlandish ("he lied to you all, I know because I was there and I saw him fudge his results") but I have seem them stand their ground and get vindicated. The truth will out, certainly on thie side of the ditch. We have too many ratbag journalists who won't be silenced! They love to pounce on claims such as "they're trying to poison us" and if there is any truth, we all know about it, fast (hence Blue Mountains City Council's purchase of Agent Orange, plus every subsequent use of it, was splashed across every morning newspaper until they depleted thier stocks of it).

So while I am keeping an open mind, I do not currently think chemical exposure was a causative factor in our particular family's incidence of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). As for testosterone - I have reason to KNOW that high levels of this hormone are also not a factor. Not for us.

I do believe that the causes of autism are likely to be multifactorial. ONe of difficult child 3's drama classmates has acquired autism, from a car accident when she was younger. I also have strong reason to believe that difficult child 3 was born as he is, there were signs in his first week that he was very different and I can look back and see signs of him stimming at a week old. Long before his first immunisation.

I will dig through your links, Terry. It may take me a few days, I have a house full of offpsring at the moment! I really want to concentrate on it all, and not keep getting pulled away from it.

Marg
 
Last edited:

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
While our neuropsychologist, who is from Mayo Clinic by the way, did say that kids born to women who used substances while pregnant (like L's birthmom) have children with more incidence of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), as does other traumas of birth, that makes sense--autism is NOT a mental illness nor is it classified as one in the United States. It is a neurological difference. We no longer use mercury in our shots and, from all the info we have on our son, it appears he had Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) traits from Day One. I have pretty much been assured by enough professionals (and by reading) that Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) is mostly genetic or due to trauma at birth. A few groups still claim it's caused by vaccines or diet. In our autism group about half the kids are on GCFS diets and half are not. I see no difference in the kids. My son is one of the highest functioning and I never thought diets did any good--so he wasn't one who was ever on one. Maybe the diet does help some kids--perhaps they would have even been more disabled. However, their function was no different than those of us who did not try diets and other DAN doctor methods. This, of course, doesn't prove anything. The debate will rage on for a long time, I suspect. I do know that my particular son was neither affected by shots or the environment as he was born this way, and has made incredible improvements using aggressive interventions. I can't and won't try to speak for all kids and I give huge kudos to all parents who try everything to try to help their children in any way they see fit.
 

Marguerite

Active Member
Our doctors in Australia (notably at Royal Prince Alfred Hospital in Sydney) say they find that diet helps about 30% of people with an autism diagnosis. They are a reputable research group (unlike others I've known) so I do trust their work's accuracy.

That isn't to say that dietary sensitivities CAUSES autism; just that for some people, modifying the diet can make it easier for them to manage some symptoms. Also, for some people there can be a correlation (not necessarily a causative one) that gives a link between autism and other dietary problems. Sometimes the anxiety often associated with autism can lead to GI tract problems related to gastric hypersecretion, for example.

The mercury debate still goes on and probably will for some time. It is part of human nature to want something to blame. The mother I mentioned in my earlier post is convinced that her daughter's problems have been either caused or made worse by immuisation. When she told me the story, I can understand why - the child already had a history of seizures and should never have been immunised. The problem in this case, though, is more likely to be simply trying to trigger an immune response in a vulnerable child with already-compromised health, rather than a blanket problem with preservatives in immunisations.

This thread isn't (shouldn't be) about whether or not immunisations are good or bad, at fault or not. However, there are some very contentious issues being raised and we have to respect that the need to lay blame somewhere is a factor in how heated the topic can get.

It does seem, looking back over all the responses, that views are mixed on this. Certainly there does seem to be a perception that there are more problem kids than in past generations. Whether this is actually borne out in numbers or not, would take a detailed epidemiological study. And if is, why? It could be more awareness, it could be better description or broader diagnostic criteria, it could be better health standards in our respective countries with an increased involvement of the various education systems, in diagnosing children who in past generations would simply have been labelled as"bad" or "retarded".

There may be other factors, we can all guess this or claim that, but until someone does the spadework and actually applies measurements, all we can do is discuss.

Mind you, discussion is always worthwhile, because without it, the studies never would get done.

Marg
 
Just a side note, it's not just difficult child-ness (loose term) that is more prevalent.

When I was a kid, we never had any kids in the class with deadly peanut allergies. Celiac disease was unheard of. I never encountered a peer with epilepsy. There were no kids with Tourettes.

Just musing here.
 

hearts and roses

Mind Reader
Science sure has come a long way, hasn't it? My sister's Dr said we can assume that my dad had celiac's disease, and quite possibly my mother as well. Two of my sister's have it and one niece - my dad died of digestive system related cancers. Back then celiac wasn't a blip on the diagnosis chart so it never would have occurred to anyone to test him for it. My mom has consistently refused to get a test and likely never will. When she's on a celiac at my sister's home diet she does better, but at my house I restrict her dairy intake and get same results so who knows.

I knew of kids in elementary school who had that funny sounding thing called tourettes. But back then, all the kids with 'mental problems' weren't mainstreamed and they all were in separate classes that ended with the suffix "R"...as in Math R, English R, Science R, etc. They had their own gym classes, art classes, and music classes. Their ONE classroom was in a short hall in the back of the school, hidden away so the kids couldn't mix and they took a separate bus. My neighbor and best friend had what would now be considered a VERY mild Learning Disability (LD) and he was in all Remedial classes up until the HS level. He was in classes with kids who had cerebral palsy and sat in a wheelchair all day, barely able to move at all. There were aides, but they were basically moms working part time. I remember my friend crying every Fall when school was about to begin. He was ostracized and tortured because he wasn't mentally retarded and he didn't have any behavioral issues whatsoever yet his torturers called him 'retard' on a daily basis. His only problem was that he didn't learn as fast as the others. He later went on to own and run a stationary store on LI and married and had a couple of kids - did great. But the stigma as a child was awful for him. Back then (60's & 70's), these disorders were around, but they didn't always have a label and no one knew what to do with those poor kids so they lumped them all together and hid them away.

I remember describing difficult child's symptoms to my ex mother in law and she said, "Oh, exh was like that all the time. Drove me crazy but I didn't dare take him to the DR because I thought they would take him away from me and put him in a home somewhere" because that is what they did. She even said she had an aunt who probably just had tourettes and she was institutionalized for life - my ex-mother in law said it was back in the late 40's when they did this. Just terrible.
 

Mandy

Parent In Training
JMO, it just wasnt diagnosed. Children like me were just labeled as "brats" or "spoiled" and went untreated. If the child had a severe enough disability then they were either put in an institution or went to "special" classes or schools.

I have had some cousins that were "different" and either received a diagnosis of being mentally retarded or were just left at being "different" and never received help.

My aunt also has celiac disease and is in her 50's but didnt get diagnosed until recently! She suffered for years without knowing the cause!
 
W

Wonderful Family

Guest
I think it's a combination of things - the biggest being envrionment/triggers and conditions simply were not diagnosed.

There have been several studies recently that discuss triggers for MI in people; perhaps occuring at an earlier age because of society requirements and overall environment (not specifically dietary) - the world itself is a bit more overwhelming since I've been a kid, even though we do the same things. There is just "more of" everything.

The thought is that some people are hard wired for potential MI, but the illnesses do not occur until something triggers it? I have no real evidence, but my hope is that this is difficult child, and we have protected the brain as he matures. Perhaps these are all the kids that are diagnosed as BiPolar (BP), not otherwise specified (and really have it) - and end-up "out-growing" the condition. For pediatric BiPolar (BP), this is one of the most controversial areas; but I know for a fact that my kid can't get by without medications.

I remember being aggressively treated for ADHD as a kid in the early 70's. Teachers had told my Mother that I was mentally retarded, even though I taught myself to read at age 3. Fortunately, my Mom did not believe it and pushed for answers (you should have seen the strange tests that I took and the docs!). I had a cousin very similar to my son, and he was never really treated (still untreated BiPolar (BP)); now they have the same issues occuring in the next generation and they still describe a couple of the kids as odd or just not with the program. This has always been my comparator for deciding whether or not to medicate my son, and the driving force in search of answers for difficult child. (difficult child is adopted, so not genetic tie in the family).
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
I think its a combination of a lot of things.
***
While I know my son's issues aren't vaccine related (because we delayed his vaccines due to family history of allergy), I think there are probably cases that could be. Heavy metal poisoning and sleep apnea in children can cause a lot of the same symptoms as BiPolar (BP) and Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD).
***
And FWIW, I was told by the doctor at a prevailing autism clinic run by our state's university that my son is cured of autism. She told me that about 5% of autism cases cure themselves. As you've read my posts, obviously, my son is not "cured", but his autistic traits aren't as prevalent, and this doctor, at a major university, says he's cured.
***
As for where this epidemic comes from? I don't know. I think a straight up ADHD child 50 years ago or more was probably an asset. As Daisy said, the farm life is suitable to that sort of child. Getting back much farther than that, we know children with birth defects or MR were locked away or killed. I suspect children with severe behaviors were probably treated the same. Life then was about the good of the family, not the individuals in it.
***
Our lifestyle today mandates more and more that both parents work - where moms before could have been keeping a challenging child at home, nowadays, that's not always an option. And we're asking our kids to do more and more sit-down work earlier and earlier. Children that don't fit that mold are identified earlier now.
***
Our lives are more stressful now. Its more of a "to each his own" society. Largely, we don't live in tight knit social/familial groups anymore. Many, many people are on their own to handle everything.
***
Thirty years ago, we started de-insitutionalizing. People that were kept from reproducing 30 years ago, now are having children. Sometimes lots of them.
***
I think there may be more children affected and we are recognizing things more. And the children aren't hidden like they once were.
***
We know that older women are more likely to have children with Down's Syndrome and other problems. What do we know about maternal age related to behavioral issues/mental health issues? Our child bearing prime is largely considered too young in this society - what's the genetic pricetag on that?
***
I was also told the craziest theory, but I thought, what the heck. I was told that the body often processes paraben as an estrogen, and may be responsible for "man boobs" on little boys and early sexual identity in children. I just heard it in passing, but I did a little digging on my own, and found it was a huge component of laundry detergents, soaps, etc. so I started using natural laundry detergent and glycerin soap. Wee difficult child's hypersexual tendencies have decreased. As a control, I went back to our old brand, and guess what reappeared? We're back to natural laundry detergent and glycerine soap. So yes, I think our whole world today could be contributing to these problems. Some people's genes can probably handle it all, like smokers who smoke all their lives and never get cancer while others die very young. We have a plethra of new additives and chemicals, not so much really "toxins", in our environment, and most of them are relatively new to our genes - who's to say there isn't a genetic deficiency that some people can't handle some of it. That they aren't "toxic" to some people.
***
And this is probably a touchy one, but...we save people now. People who couldn't have children before are now reproducing thru modern medicine. People who would have died young of serious diseases are living and having children. Babies are born at 28 weeks and survive. We have eliminated natural selection. I'm certainly not saying we shouldn't be doing these things, but I think it has an impact on the issues we are seeing down the line - we're keeping weaker genes.
***
As for autism, I think they will find one day that there are multiple sub-groups of autism. Some caused by irreversible neurological differences, and other forms with other, very different, causes.
***
They now say that people exposed to dirt and germs as children have healthier immune systems. Yet our houses are tighter; we don't have drafts. Our air is recirculated thru modern heating and cooling devices. We use antibacterial soap and our kids don't sit or work in the dirt all day.
***
And who knows what the boob-tube is really impacting.
 

DaisyFace

Love me...Love me not
And this is probably a touchy one, but...we save people now. People who couldn't have children before are now reproducing thru modern medicine. People who would have died young of serious diseases are living and having children. Babies are born at 28 weeks and survive. We have eliminated natural selection. I'm certainly not saying we shouldn't be doing these things, but I think it has an impact on the issues we are seeing down the line - we're keeping weaker genes.
***

Shari--

This is so true! I have often thought of this myself...if it was my baby (born prematurely, or with the hole in its heart, or other such birth problem) I would absolutely want to exhaust every medical option to save him. But for the "human species"--it is probably not so good for every weakling to survive these life-threatening conditions. It weakens the "species" as a whole because it allows these defects to be passed to the next generation.

But as a parent--how can you not do everything in the world to preserve the life of your child?

Definitely one of the trickier consequences of modern medicine...
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
MWM, you are correct, it is 1 in 250. I don't recall where I got the 1-in-4 #.

Marg, you like research as much as I do. :)

by the way, I once had a dr who insisted that allergies to antibiotics were not genetic, inherited, or otherwise related in families. I quit going to him. I wanted to live. :)

The testosterone study is interesting because you don't know if the mother is producing too much of it, affecting the fetus, or if the fetus itself is producing it, or if there is some other factor altogether. Just that high levels are present. This may be an instance where we know just enough to make us dangerous. :) We have to wait for continued research on that topic.

Mandy, so sorry about your aunt's celiac's not being diagnosis'd until so late. Sigh. At least doctors think to look for it more often now.

Shari, yes, parabens are getting a lot of press lately. Those who poo-poo the theory insist that certain people are just highly senstive. But what they ignore is the slow buildup in our systems, and the things that can happen from cumulative effects.

Yes, my husband and I talked about how many kids and even adults "back then" just died. Society's attitudes have changed a great deal and we do take care of differently abled people, including those who are physically handicapped, much better than we used to. We can afford it, personally and in society. Despite our complaints, there are social programs in place (that may or may not work) that simply did not exist many yrs ago.

Daisyface, I agree. It's one thing to look at evolution overall and know that survival of the fittest is best, but when faced with-one of your own, it's heartwrenching. on the other hand, we've had some pretty famous talented people, including US presidents and British leaders, who have been handicapped, and not only suvived, but surmounted the odds.
 
Top