It never ends

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Wiped Out, Mar 30, 2008.

  1. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Last Thursday difficult child had another encounter with that same boy. It was part of another post which I'll post here just so I don't have to rewrite that part.

    On a side note difficult child had 1/2 day ISS due to shoving the same child he has had problems with all year. Apparently there were substitutes today. The child went by difficult child in line and difficult child told the child they weren't supposed to be by each other. difficult child told the sub who didn't do anything about it. Then a bit later in class they started arguing and difficult child shoved him. We have talked til we're blue in the face about him leaving this boy alone-argh!
    That was Thursday. We also found out that in regards to the shove the boy also was in difficult child's space again.

    Fast forward to Friday. The dad showed up in the office Friday morning while difficult child was down there trying to find out if he owed any more ISS. The dad apparently made the comment that difficult child didn't even belong in the public schools-right in front of him!:angry-very: The principal closed the door, taking difficult child in side saying the children come first. The dad got very angry and called the police!!!!

    difficult child's principal called the head of security of the district.

    Apparently the dad felt what difficult child did was assault. Both the police and security person said a shove does not constitute assault. He wants difficult child out of the school. He was upset that difficult child freaked out when the boy was in difficult child's space and shoved him. Apparently difficult child also shouted that the boy needed to be out of his space before he shoved him.

    Well, geez, maybe the fact that he's been told by a million people to be sure he stays out of this boy's space has something to do about it!

    They have decided to move difficult child into a different classroom. We haven't told him yet-he may be o.k. with it or he may not be.

    husband and I are so frustrated. This boy has pushed difficult child's buttons all semester long and difficult child reacts (which is not excusing difficult child in any way). husband has had to restrain another student from hitting this child because he was bothering her so much.

    This all has husband so stressed out he isn't sleeping. We have decided not to fight the change in classrooms because husband works at the school. He is, however, going to write a letter to the asst. superintendent explaining that although we are going along with the change we feel it is unfair to difficult child to have to leave the classroom where his IEP is in place. Plus, difficult child is being punished when at first he tried to do the right thing-he tried to have the boy leave his space using his words and that didn't work.

    I'm the first to say when difficult child is being wrong and he is not totally innocent but this feels wrong (and this boy is the only child difficult child has had trouble with all year in school)

    Sorry this is long-thanks for listening to my vent!
  2. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    I hardly know what to say. It's a shame that difficult child has to be the one to change classrooms. What a crock!

    The other boy's dad was way WAY out of line. Shame on him.

    I hope the transition goes smoothly for difficult child. This whole thing really, um, hoovers!
  3. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    Honestly, it sounds like difficult child has 1 of 2 situations going on.

    1. The other kid is a bully and gets a kick out of pushing difficult child's buttons

    2. The other kid is a difficult child and this is a natural progression of things.

    HOWEVER! It seems that the other difficult child's Dad is in a state of D-E-N-I-A-L! Anyone who constantly says "not my kid" or blames the other kid, has their eyes closed.

    Paint the change of classes as a positive thing. OR raise hell and have the other kid moved.

    Good luck!

  4. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    Why isn't the other boy changing classrooms? Or, better yet, schools? If the dad is that worried about his son, he should have HIS son removed, not yours. It would be different if he were the instigator, but he's not. He's just reacting when words don't work.

    Sorry, I'd be fighting tooth and nail to have the other boy removed. It just doesn't seem right.

    As to the father's reactions, I'm sure glad his son is so perfect and caused none of the problems. C'mon, we're not talking hitting or anything life threatening, we're talking shoving -- something that happens all the time at school. Daddy, dear, get a life and watch your tongue! I don't care how "bad" you think a kid is and how much you want to protect your child, you don't say things like that to the child. To the teacher, the principal, even the other parents, yes; but not the child.

    I'm sorry you're going go through this. Neither your family nor your son deserves it.
  5. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    Sharon, it sounds as if this other boy is a difficult child in his own right, and he has a difficult child for a father as well!

    In all seriousness, I'm so sorry for all your family is going through. It just doesn't seem right or fair.

  6. slsh

    slsh member since 1999


    I would request an IEP/BIP team mtg ASAP. It's time for school staff to step in and be accountable. This is no longer an issue between difficult child and the other child, in my humble opinion. It's about the adults who are aware there is a problem and who are not being proactive in stopping it. While I understand the move, I personally think it would be more appropriate to move the other child given that difficult child does have the IEP... but I completely understand you guys accepting this decision. We can only battle so much.

    on the other hand, switching classrooms does not mean these 2 won't have contact. That's where the adults need to step in.

    Unfortunately, this other child is going to think he won something (I'm making assumptions here about the child and the parents - I could be wrong, but Dad calling police seems over the top and I suspect other child is being held blameless at home, which doesn't sound to be the case). I really don't see the harrassment stopping just because they're in different classrooms. At this point it's a 50/50 situation - half difficult child, half the other kid. They *both* need to be held accountable and they *both* need supervision by school staff, in my humble opinion.

    I'm so sorry you're going thru this. You know I'm a pessimist - I'd have your district's policy on bullying on hand just in case this kid doesn't let up.
  7. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    I have to ditto Sue on this.

  8. Fran

    Fran Former Site Owner

    Sounds like a lose/lose situation. We all understand being protective of our kids being hurt regardless of who started it. What I don't understand is his thought your son doesn't belong in the school. Last I checked, all children are a work in progress.
  9. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Ditto all of the above.

    I'm sorry, Sharon. You're due for a break.

  10. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Thanks everyone!

    Bbk-Yeah I think the dad was way over the line too.

    Beth-It does kind of feel like the dad is a difficult child. We're going to try and put a positive spin on it for difficult child because we just don't feel we can fight this one.

    MB-If we husband didn't work at the school we would fight it but the dad probably already thinks difficult child gets special treatment (which believe me he doesn't).

    SW-Thanks for your support!

    Sue-The IEP was already scheduled for the 24th of April and the district has actually requested it be moved up to this week on Tuesday or Wednesday morning. However, I can't make either of those mornings because my class has a big project that is taking place on Thursday and I refuse to miss those two mornings. Not trying to be a pain but I'm a bit mad they are just thinking I can take a 1/2 off. You are right though we do need to have it soon. I do think that family will feel they have "won" and it is really frustrating as I agree it is a 50/50 situation with difficult child getting all the blame.

    Lisa-Thanks for the hugs.

    Fran-I do understand that part although from what I heard he wasn't hurt but even the fact that difficult child shoved him is not o.k. I was extremely upset at the dad suggesting difficult child didn't belong at the school.

    Heather-Thanks for the hugs.

    husband wrote a very good letter to the asst. superintendent last night explaining our feelings. We haven't been able to foreshadow the change yet with difficult child because we weren't told yet which class he will be going into. difficult child doesn't always do well with transitions so we're a bit worried.
  11. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Hey Sharon,

    I think that since the father came up and complained (acted like a .....), his complaint should serve as a request to move HIS son. difficult child has and IEP and BIP. If your difficult child is anything like mine, or the hundreds of others here, change like this can cause more upset. I know that if my difficult child, especially at your difficult child's age, were to be moved here a this late time of the year he would feel a tremendous deal of anxiety and probably shut down for quite a while. Heck, he's on edge when they try and move his seat in class (they don't do that anymore!).

    You know, I hate to be flippant about this but boys will be boys. Shoving each other is not that huge of a deal in my book. We have become so threatened and conditioned to "zero tolerance" that we don't remember how kids solved their issues in the past.

    So what if your son shoved a kid out of his face? Sure the school has a no contact rule. But geeze, I don't think anyone is standing up for your son here. I do understand they don't want to appear to be giving favoritism, but did this father asked for difficult child to be moved or did the school volunteer this solution? I know you are feeling beat down here lately, but this is just not right for difficult child.

    Now you have to "train" another teacher.

  12. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    The way I see it, the other boy is far more in the wrong. difficult child has been identified as having problems and needing help with certain behaviours. Part of that help involves keeping the other boy out of difficult child's space. Yes, difficult child has to learn to behave more appropriately but if this were possible then he wouldn't be needing support, now would he?

    The other boy, therefore, needs to be pulled into line and watched. He is clearly pushing difficult child's buttons and it seems to me he is doing it because he KNOWS it will get a reaction. Kids like the other boy get a big kick out of getting other kids into trouble while seeming to be totally innocent.

    I am speaking from personal experience. I, too, used to say things like, "difficult child 3 has to learn self-control, he is not blameless in this, I will talk to him about not hitting other kids," when all the time I KNEW that difficult child 3 was reacting to being bullied repeatedly by kids, with teachers knowing what was going on and choosing to do nothing because they didn't personally see what was going on. The result of this was the other kids learning that difficult child 3 was a 'soft target', they could hassle HIM and get away with it, since the 'weird kid' would always be assumed to have done the wrong thing, especially since he was known to have behaviour problems. The end result - difficult child 3 was given a false reputation as a liar (because his story often didn't tally with the bullies' tales) and the word has got around so now difficult child 3 is a target with the younger siblings of the previous bullies. And not only difficult child 3 - other Aspie & autistic individuals, including an older man who lives nearby, are being hassled by these little charmers. And it doesn't happen much at all when we're not in our home space - this is a local problem, caused by the local school choosing to back away from bullying/difficult child parents, and instead criticise the kid who is already known to be a problem.

    Your difficult child tried to do the right thing at first. Who knows what this other kid was saying or doing? A skilled bully can sneak in a sly pinch or, as used to happen regularly with difficult child 3, stab with something small and sharp like a pin or sharp pencil, and nobody in authority sees or believes it.

    The kid is a bully. And from what we now see of his dad - we don't need to wonder where this kid learned it.

    I agree, this other kid is going to see difficult child being moved, as a victory. The dad will see it as the school caving, and therefore both will see that what they did, their actions, were not only justified, they have paid off. This only reinforces the bad behaviour of both son and father.

    Like your son, difficult child 3 had the most problems on days when he had substitute teachers. They either didn't know, or didn't think it was THAT important to insist on the kids being kept apart.

    I would be fighting the move, tooth and nail. Instead, I would be pushing the school to give that father his wish and remove HIS son to another class. After all, surely HIS son is going to be more capable of coping with change?

    I think you and husband need to open your eyes and realise that you are expecting more from your son than he is capable of giving; and you are also sending a message to the school and the bullies as follows, "I'm sorry you have to put up with our difficult child, please don't bully him too hard but if you do, we will find ways of excusing you."

    Sorry to sound harsh, but in your words I hear myself - I thought I was a tigress on behalf of my son, but I have learnt a great deal over the last few years and seen how my son has blossomed when finally safe from the bullying. When I read back over the diary I was keeping, I am ashamed of myself and how I failed to properly support my son, in my efforts to placate his teachers and the other students.

    What really began to open my eyes, and still almost brings me to tears of shame, was the report I got from the principal of his second school. At this school bullying was very tightly controlled and disciplined. difficult child 3 still says he was bullied there too, but it was far less and it was all verbal; none of the physical abuse he had been enduring.

    The principal told me about the incident. difficult child 3 was still a very new student, it was only his first week. Another student got impatient with difficult child 3 while they were in the playground, said something to difficult child 3 along the lines of, "Get out of my way, you freak."
    difficult child 3 just stood there and said to this other kid, "Aren't you going to hit me now?"
    The other boy's reaction - he thought difficult child 3 was threatening him, daring him to hit him (a sort of, "Go on, hit me - and I'll hit you back so hard...") and because bullying and physical violence was so strictly banned, the other boy ran to get the principal ("the new boy is threatening me").
    The principal quickly realised what was happening - difficult child 3 had, over the years, learned that certain things happen to him just because of who he is, and he just had to put up with it all and not make a fuss. The progression of events, according to difficult child 3, was, "first they call me names, then they beat me up. This boy called me names so that must mean he's now going to start hitting me. I don't want to delay the beating, I just want to get it over with."

    If your son is thinking anything like that, having a known bully in his personal space would have felt very similar. "First that kid comes too close to me, then there are problems. Now here he comes again, it's starting all over like it always does when he comes close. I will tell him to go away. If he does not go away, that means he is going to start hitting me. I desperately want him to go away. Words aren't working."
    A lot of this is not consciously thought, it's feelings at a gut level, compounded by past experience. It doesn't matter what rules you try and program into difficult child - if experience is teaching him otherwise, you will not succeed. What MUST happen - difficult child needs new experiences, ones where the GOOD techniques actually work; ones where the school staff enable the good techniques to work by enforcing the rules of 'no contact'.

    I applaud your principal who took difficult child aside away from that other boy's father. If that man felt that shoving his son constituted assault, but saying what he did to difficult child was NOT an offence, then it's no wonder his son is such a problem.

  13. Josie

    Josie Active Member

    Just wanted to add my support. To me, it sounds like your difficult child acted like many boys would, maybe even better than most, by asking the other boy to get out of his space, telling a teacher, and then finally reacting. It sounds like the other boy (and his dad) is a bully. No one was helping your son and he felt like he had to do something.

    It's too bad your son has to be the one to move, but I understand why you are not asking for a change.
  14. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Sharon-His father went so far to say that he wanted difficult child removed from the school! The transition could be very hard on difficult child. He is not going to be happy to be moved.

    Marg-You bring up a lot of good points. The boy definitely a bully. I'm quite sure he isn't hitting or being physical with my difficult child but he knows how to push difficult child's buttons to get him in trouble. It is so darn frustrating and like you said difficult child tried to do the right thing. Trust me if husband didn't work in the school we would be fighting this big time. He did write a great letter to the asst. super. voicing our concerns.

    Fop-Thanks for your support-it is much appreciated!
  15. happymomof2

    happymomof2 New Member

    My son had a similar situation last year in middle school, although the other kid that was pushing his buttons was also in the self contained class.

    The teacher and I emailed each other daily and my son kept getting into trouble with this kid. I finally told her I understand that difficult child needs to control his temper but the other kid needed to be stopped aggravating difficult child, because he can only take so much. She agreed. Soon after that the other kid got into some really bad trouble and was sent to another school where they are way more strict.

    We have to step up for our difficult child's. Yes they are way far from perfect but sometimes it is the other kid!!