it was exactly as i suspected....

[toughlovin]

Jena, What I am thinking about is your younger difficult child... she was very upset at the outburst after lunch correct? There may be more to that than you realize. I think growing up and having the tension around difficult child issues with a young adult can be very very hard on the younger kids. I realize your easy child was a easy child until fairly recently so in that way your situation is different than mine... however I have realized that no matter what I want, no matter how I feel about it having my difficult child come back home would be detrimental for my daughter. Probably worse situation between them than yours but still...you also need to think about your younger difficult child. You have to protect her from all the drama. How is she doing with easy child out of the house? I know my daughter thrives when my son is not here and I have decided that I need to support her right now.

What Janet says is very true.... when they say you can't go home again I think this is what they mean. I think coming back home often holds kids back from growing up, and that is what all your adult but really children kids need... to grow up.

 

[Jena]

hmm i don't know how I feel about that exactly. I'm still processing the thought that she should not return home. Its not up to me either way at this point. I do know that if she ever did there would have to be huge huge changes. I do not think her living with this other mother will help her "grow up" , now if she was in her own apartment, or sharing with a friend, etc. That is a whole other story, than great stay there and grow flourish make mistakes etc.

My difficult child isn't doing that well at night, she is usually horrible at night. She has major sleep issues, her clock is totally backwards lol. Yet now she feels alone in the house without easy child here at home in the bedroom next to her. She is struggling at night, very badly. She cries alot, and worries alot about easy child at night. To be honest she worries worse than I do about easy child. Behavior wise id' say yes maybe there is an improvement, she is being more social with other kids.

I don't know, i think it's just one of those things that will have to play out however it does. I just know I have to follow my instincts moving forward on certain issues so that I don't make the same mistake i did on mothers day.

never easy, right?? regardless of age at 18 she is mentally a child. As I said i know 40 year old woman who are children, and have yet to grow up.

I noticed on your signature you wrote your 18 year old was out of the house. Yet now he is back in? So how is that working??

 

[Jena]

Shari

No I want her to get help where she is now. I'd like her to get help anyway she can. we offered to keep paying for her therapy she chose not to go.

You said some interesting things...... i will bring it up to the therapist this week when I go. I mean right now as you know she isn't here, and the choices she is making are all her own clearly. If she were to continue living where she is, and go to school get a job etc. great! Yet I don't see that happening. Honestly i was hoping that what some ppl here were saying about her thriving somewhere else would happen. I didn't care, how it happened. Yet it didn't, she broke free from me, the rules etc. and just is living one very out of control existance right now. I'Tourette's Syndrome sad she doesnt' love and respect herself enough to want more.

 

[toughlovin]

LOL I guess I better udate my signature!!! He is now 19 and is out of the house and has been since last August. He was back in for about a month and it did not work well at all.... we had agreements about him being back home and he just kept breaking the rules and we finally told him he couldn't live here if he couldn't obey the rules. He was sneaky about it... but he was majorly abusing car privledges etc... So he has been out since August and will not be coming back home

 

[Shari]

Homestly, Jen, it hasn't been long enough for anything to really happen.
The consultant hired to do an fba for Wee at school said it takes 12-18 months to truly undo behaviors. I don't know if that's true, but I do know 3 weeks isn't even a drop in the bucket.
What needs to happen is that this other mother decides she's tired of difficult child not pulling her weight around there and boot her. It usually happens - funny thing about freeloaders is that the ones they are sucking from usually do get tired of it eventually unless they are getting something out of it. So then when this other woman boots her, honestly, most likely, shell find someone else who will take her in. And the cycle repeats, until she sees that she has to contribute for people to want to keep her around.
As I'm sure you've noticed here on pe....no one's kid moved out and realized what a screw up it was in a week or two. This is a long haul deal.
That's also why they are saying coming home is a really iffy proposition. We aren't talking about next week or even next month. You're probably looking at next year, if then.

 

[Jena]

Yes your right I think on that one. It does take so long to undue behaviors whether learned or thru a disorder with-the help of a medication and therapy. She isn't doing anything about changing it, so we'll have to add a whole lotta time onto that one.

She just keeps saying what a huge anger problem she has whenever she is in my space and how she needs medications for it. I said medications alone do not fix anything, it takes work, time in therapy and talking about why it is you are so mad to begin with. She doesn't even really know I don't think.

Seems though she's been thinking a little about her future, being honest about who she is. She decided college is out, no kidding she doestn' even attend high school!! Yet an idea i threw out years ago, beauty school she is now thinking about.

Who knows Shari, it's so difficult detatching overall. Switching gears so fast isn't easy for anyone i'm sure. Just have to hope that along the way the lessons taught, time spent will be remembered along the way and hopefully utilized. There isnt' much more to really say on it.

We just get up each day and deal. difficult child is hard hit by it, is struggling at night more due to it. Is very concerned about easy child at night, much more than I am now. First week was rough, yet now I do sleep, I am calm at night. New thing is spasms in my right leg which kept me up till very late last night. husband was literally laying on the leg to make it stop lol.

found out today the mri i need is alot of money! I'm awaiting a place for a free mri to be taken, yet there's a wait list. I have other testing next week, which should give them a clue how bad it is. I'm just anxious to start medications. sorry went off topic there......

 

[Jena]

toughlovin i wanted to say that i think your doing a great job. i came across another post of yours about your difficult child and what's going on. your doing a great job. i know it isnt' easy trust me. you know what though i was thinking about it this is a great exercise for you and i both so that when they are adults we'll already be detatched and not still wrapped up in what their doing or not doing. i'm sure to some extent we'll always be concerned yet there's a level ya know

 

[Steely]

Jena -
The way it went down with Matt and I was a bit different than most. I had put up with utter hell for 3 years. He was verbally abusive to me, and sometimes physical. I scrappled, got him help, new medications, phosph, but I refused to put him in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC).

When my sister died, my whole life went into a whirlwind. I went to work and was bullied and harassed by a group of women that were below me, and thought they deserved to be above me in their careers. I would come home and just sit and cry over my sister and job, and Matt would come in and see me, and absorb it all. He stopped acting out, but became suicidal himself. He absorbed me just as I always absorbed him. We were very co-dependent, single mom, single son - we were enmeshed.

So my Dr had given me some Xanax to get through my sister's death, and unfortunately I left it on a shelf in the kitchen cabinet. I came home from work and Matt had taken 45 of the Xanax. Now instead of being passing out, or becoming unconscious, he became out of his mind. His 6'3 self struck me in the back and I fell to the ground. He began running out of the house to escape. He was OUT of his mind. I called the police while I locked myself in the house and waited.

The police came, and I told them to take him to the psychiatric unit. The next day, he and I both knew it was IT. Like, we could never ever go back to the way it was ever again. It was mutual. Not once has he ever asked to come back home, nor have I once ever wanted him. He went through 4 Residential Treatment Center (RTC) in 2 years, but we both knew he was not coming home.

He would come home on home visits, and as much as I loved him and wanted to see him, my heart would pound that he would become violent again, or there would be a situation that he would melt down over. I would not sleep a wink when he was on home visits.

So the bottom line is that we both knew it was not in either of our best interests to live together. How was he going to grow? And how was I going to find the peace and stability to grow if he was in my house. How would your difficult child find that peace and stability to grow?

These kid do not change over night. In fact when they do change, any past event can trigger them to regress, i.e. like living back at home. It is just not in their best interest, or yours.

I moved out when I was 18 because at the time I hated my parents and I loved my boyfriend. I was a mixed up, screwed up kid, and I am sure my parents had no hope. However, as my boyfriend stayed unemployed and became addicted to crack, I started to rise above. It was something in me - it just rose above and moved on. It took years - but I went on to have successful careers, and and successful interactions. Never once would I have wanted to move back home - EVER. The whole reason I moved out was because when I was around my parents I always felt less than. When I was on my own, I knew the world was my oyster - it was my choice to make it what I wanted. I loved that feeling. Perhaps your daughter will too. Do not risk taking that away from her - she needs to feel that she is capable of doing anything - all by herself.

 

[Jena]

sorry thats a rough story.....i don't blame you i too wouldn't be able to handle the possibility of violence again. how scarey and yea that's rough stuff to go through. my heart goes out to you, and the loss of your sister also. alot alot of stuff.

easy child difficult child whatever she is is an angry girl because she has internalized everything that's gone on in her life of 18 years. she was offered therapy after my divorce years ago, once again and the last time. she doesn't cope well, she shoves down. she doesnt' know her father either which the therapist and i know is also a huge hurt for her that she refuses to address. the doctor felt she met the criteria for add yet never finished the testing process because she never went back.

so if she guts it out, begins to do the work she'll get straight. she has to want to and she has to respect herself which right now she doesnt at all. it shows bigtime.

i dont want to take anything away from her, yet she isnt' doing on her own the way you and i did. i moved out at 17 also. my father had abused me horribly mentally and sexually in another state i lived with him in.my mother left me there because i was "acting out" and she didn't know what to do with me. little did she know he had already had one round of abuse onto me when i was much much younger. hence me acting out! between that and the bars he'd take me to every weekend on visitation. oh sheesh was i a messed up teen yea no doubt. i went crazy at 12, it was over by 14. i returned to my mom and her new husband his two kids and a new baby of theirs on the way. it was all just a bit too much. i too didnt' complete high school. i dropped out in my senior year because fla had misplaced my transcripts and i wasn't getting credit for school there. i said the heck with this. got my g.e.d. immediately with-o taking classes, had already been working a pt job at night, got a full time job in manhattan, got an apartment, went to college at night and madea life for myself.

easy child is ummm drinking heavily, not attending school and using this woman for food and shelter. so there isn't any doing for her in there like you and i

maybe in time though we'll c......

 

[Steely]

Yes, time. As I said it took me 2 years to rise above. Meanwhile i was living it up doing every drug out there. I was also abused, and I think I just needed the time to sort my priorities. One day I woke up and realized I was about to become an addict, and the reality hit me with volcanic force. I slowly changed, but it still took a lot of time. I truly believe it will be the same for your daughter. I really do. But just think about you, and your life. Would you be the strong person you are now if you had not been on your own for so long and made your OWN life? You gotta believe that your daughter has the same strength and tenacity you do, and that in time she tap into it and use it. Bringing her back home again subconsciously tells her that you do not believe she can rise above, that you think she is weak and incapable. Daily send her the message that you know she can have an amazing life all by her own empowerment.

 

[Jena]

thats' sweet thank you. yet right now i'm practicing my newfound detatchment and doing pretty ok with it. after the other day i need a breather from her. she really went at me badly, and i'm sorry i as you went thru so much thru our years i'd never of spoken to my mother that way.

there comes a time you have to say ok i get you have problems BUT this b.s. treatment is no longer ok. she should be sending me inspirational messages lol. joking

 

[Steely]

I don't think you understood me. I didn't mean literally send her a message. I meant in your head you need to believe that.
Nevermind.
And as for "you would have never talked to your mom that way" - well - that is pretty irrelevant.

 

[Jena]

sorry steely thought you meant literally it was late last night when reading

((Hugs))


and no it is true our generation got beaten and we're kinda ok lol

 

[Shari]

For some, the beating didn't stop the "talking to their mothers that way".

And for some, it still doesn't.

 

[Jena]

yea its all relative to the person situation etc. yet you gotta admit here where i am, friends i have similar age etc. or ppl i know. we all say same the way we were raised and the way we raise ours, the world has changed so much. influx of stuff from society, tv etc. kids truly dont' get that respecting one's parents it not an option these days. it seems to be a theme whether difficult child or not.

 

[mrsammler]

"And as for "you would have never talked to your mom that way" - well - that is pretty irrelevant. "

Really? I disagree emphatically. I see a ton of this sort of counsel on this forum--i.e., "well, she/he is a difficult child, so different rules/standards apply." In so many words, anyway. I couldn't disagree more. Look at it from the difficult child's (exploitative) perspective: "different rules/standards apply to me because I behave so badly? Cool! I'm gonna keep behaving badly!" For lack of a better term, I'll call it "difficult child exceptionalism": difficult children are different, so you've gotta define "acceptable" downward to meet them at a level that they can handle. No! That may well be how they got to be difficult children in the first place--certainly if keeps them in difficult child mode when they would otherwise have to consider, due to discomfort, a different mode of behavior.

The fact that we would never have talked to our mothers that way is entirely relevant. difficult children aren't a special class liberated from the standards & rules that the rest of us have to respect and work within--the minute you being to believe that they are, you've stopped helping them and started enabling them.

 

[Shari]

I think what she means is that expecting the same results with the same methods of parenting today isn't realistic. I don't know about everyone here, but I know my parents didn't "spare the rod", so to speak. I began my parenting journey much the same way...I didn't beat my kids, but I did spank them. It worked for 2. Epic fail on the third. I promise you can not beat him into a different behavior. Period.

But why wouldn't we expect it to change? We don't live in that same time, and everything is different. TV is different, school is different, food is different, work/life balance is different...what is the same, and why would we expect the same methods to work today?

I still say the Amish are onto something...

 

[mrsammler]

I still say the Marine Corps is onto something. They "cure" a ton of seemingly intractable difficult children every year via the old tried-and-true methods: very high expectations. Very low tolerance for misconduct. Very sharp and very quick consequences for misconduct, with absolutely zero allowances for excuses, explanations, etc. Outright defiance and attempts to "get out" are met with the brutal consequence of putting the trainee into another training unit that's on Day 1 of basic--i.e., hell starts over at day 1. Kids change. difficult children change. Everybody changes. It's a massive tough love experience, and it changes lives. And it puts to shame a lot of the soft child-raising theories and hand-wringing that you see these days wrt tough/bad kids.

 

[Jena]

very interesting topic has begun that's great. thanks shari yup thats' what i meant. and yup world is a different place. and nope beinga difficult child is not a get outta jail free card.

 

[Steely]

Mrsmammier I would love to hear your life story. In addition it would be great if you added a signature. Otherwise it is hard to know who you really are and what brings you to our board.
Thanks