It's A New Week, Mikey...How's It Going?

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by DDD, Jul 23, 2007.

  1. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I'm hoping that life has settled down at your house and the week
    started with a clean slate??? :thumbsup: Is this the signal of the week? If not, are you hanging in there? I'm sending
    caring thoughts your way and hoping for an update on you and yours. DDD
  2. KFld

    KFld New Member

  3. PonyGirl

    PonyGirl Warrior Parent

    What they said!

  4. Mikey

    Mikey Psycho Gorilla Dad

    Hi all. Thanks for asking.

    Trying to lay low a bit, not inflame any situations, and get through until Thursday evening when we have our first "family session" with the docs at the medical study.

    So far, McWeedy seems to be laying low as well. Answers his phone, doesn't break curfew, etc. He did ask to sleep over - twice - during his grounding. He got an immediate "NO", which he didn't fight - and was home either early or on time. Guess he was just testing the boundaries.

    I also had to take his car away from him on Saturday. He'd left work early, didn't tell anyone, and I caught his car parked over at Hookah Heaven. He tried to explain, but I didn't let him - just asked for the keys. He didn't fight it, and just handed them over. Didn't ask for it back until yesterday, which is when he would have gotten it back anyway.

    McWeedy seems to be adjusting to having rules to follow, but then again, he's fooled me before. Not letting my guard down, because it's entirely likely he's found some new way to act out that (a) doesn't involve his car, (b) doesn't involve breaking the rules (at least the ones we can enforce), and (c) doesn't involve anything we can "detect" when he comes home.

    I would say that I hope I'm wrong, but I know better......

    Given that wife is happy to have a somewhat calm house, and that McWeedy isn't putting up much of a fuss, I'm really going to try and "keep the peace" (within reason) until Thursday. Don't know why I'm looking at that meeting as some kind of milestone, but I am. We'll see.


    <u>Big P.S.</u>: I read McWeedy the riot act again for smoking, and gave him the "10 minutes between life and death" speech. That comes from his doctor, who said if he'd waited 10 more minutes to call for help when he was having his asthma attack, he probably wouldn't have made it to the phone - and I would have come home to find him dead on the floor.

    When his doctor found out he was smoking cigs and pot again, he was pretty upset, and told me the "10 minutes" story - and told me to pass it on to the Doobster. Guess it got to him, because he asked to go back on Chantix (again) to stop the cigs (again). Feeling somewhat snarky, I said "you can pay the hundred bucks this month for it". Shock and awe. "I want to quit smoking, you want me to quit smoking, and you want me to pay for my own drugs?" "Yep. You wasted two months of the prescription, stopped taking the pills, and started smoking again. I want you to stop, but why should I spend another 100 bucks when you threw away the progress you'd made after the first round of treatment? How do I know that you're going to do any better this time around? Am I wasting my money - again?"

    More shock, more awe. Finally, "I don't have the money, and I still owe you a lot that I'm trying to pay off. How can I possibly pay for the medications?". FINALLY! He now sees it from my side, at least somewhat. I finally relented and bought the drugs, but told him that I wasn't going to baby him and force him to take them. If he didn't take them, then I was going to tack the cost of the prescription back onto his IOU tab. Same if he keeps smoking despite the drugs.

    We'll see how this goes.

    Mikey (again)
  5. Ephchap

    Ephchap Active Member

    Quoted from Mikey:
    ["I finally <u>relented</u> and bought the drugs" ]

    Same ol, same ol. Sorry, Mikey. You threaten and no follow through.

  6. KFld

    KFld New Member

    One slogan in alanon that always sticks in my mind is expect progress not perfection. You can apply that to Mr. McWeedy and yourself. You have made progress since you first came here and hopefully in time Mr. McWeedy will do the same.

    Not arguing when he asks to do something and is told no shows some progress to me.
  7. Mikey

    Mikey Psycho Gorilla Dad

    Deb - check your PM.
  8. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    Mikey -- A suggestion. If you're going to do it anyway, don't act like you won't. Gives you a little more validity in the long run. Otherwise, Edp is 100% right. You say no then end up giving in for whatever reason and we can always find a reason to make life easier for us and our kids.

    If McWeedy is anything like my daughter, he's not going to get that it isn't fair to you to pay over and over for something. He's just going to see that if he whines, negotiates, acts like he gets it, he will get what he wants. been there done that
  9. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Mikey, I started reading your 7 page post earlier today and just finished page 7 and have read your posts here.

    I have to say it - and I think others have already - but it has not sunk in.

    You are destroying your family. You are WAY too involved in the daily workings of your son. You need to set the rules and the punishments for breaking those rules. Period. Then if a rule is broken, the punishment is dished out - by either you or wife. Shouldn't matter because the punishment is already known by all.

    You even mention that you are recovering from - I think - alcoholism. You are a decent, law-abiding, tax paying citizen - correct? difficult child can be, too. You just need to give him the chance to learn all the life skills the hard way. Yes, the hard way. Some people ONLY learn from the hard way - and not the easy way. You are giving difficult child the easy way by not following through with the punishments.

    Seriously, if I were wife I would be pondering getting you out of my house - betting on it being much more calm and peaceful.

    Sorry. I am sure you either do not believe what I just said, will dismiss it as someone who doesn't get it, or come up with some lame counter to what I said.
    I really do not mean to offend or hurt anyone - but this is getting destructive not only to you - but to the entire family. You are the destructive force in your house. Sorry. That is how I see it. Hope I am wrong, because I do not see you changing anything.

  10. CAmom

    CAmom Member

    Busywend, I'm so sorry to have to agree with you.

    I find it interesting and sad, now, and have found it interesting and sad for many months that, even though my husband and I went through VERY similar problems with our son about a year ago, and I've posted from my heart about them in response to Mikey's situation on numerous occasions, I've gotten little or no response. I've often thought that this is simply because our situation hits too close to home.

    God knows, I felt the same way so many times in the past when most of you (and I thank GOD for that now) have been painfully honest with me regarding our situation. However, as painful as that has been, your heart-felt honesty as a "family" has helped me SO, SO much, and I hope that Mikey can find the same help when he's ready to do so...

  11. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    It is so hard to learn the hard way, just when we feel like we made progress, start to trust just a little, let our guard down and they zap us. I just feels so crushing when you want so much to believe in them and they just keep proving over and over they can't be trusted.
  12. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    It is hard and I feel Mikey's pain. I really do. Even though I do not have a drug addicted difficult child - I still have a difficult child. AND her biodad was drug addicted - so I am not foreign to it at all.

    This is coming from the heart - it is not meant to be malicious. It is meant to help a family in turmoil.
  13. Mikey

    Mikey Psycho Gorilla Dad

    busywend: In fact, I don't disagree with you. I am a destructive force in my family. I won't post any "lame excuses", but the truth is that I never really knew how my wife felt at all. I took her lack of input as tacit approval for what I was doing, only to have her finally reach her breaking point - and then I was the one pulling back and being quiet.

    I am the destructive force because I didn't recognize that the true problem in my home is a disconnect between me and my beloved wife. McWeedy, while as serious problem, has almost been a blessing in that he's forced me to realize this fact. However, now that I know about it, I don't know what can be done, because the gulf is much wider than I thought. Let me explain....

    Yesterday, I get a call at work from wife. She's very upset (i.e. yelling) on the phone that McWeedy has really gone off the deep end. She tells me that (a) while she was asleep, he took her van that morning to bring his girlfriend over; (b) he took her credit card without asking to put gas in his car; and worst of all, (c) he left his phone in her van, and she was reading his text messages.

    They weren't good, and wife's only comment was "I want him gone". So, in the middle of the day, I'm on my way home. wife leaves me the phone while she takes Dancer out on errands, and I spend the next thirty minutes reading....

    As it turns out, McWeedy has quite the side life going on, and as so many here suspected, had simply gotten better at hiding it from us. He's moved on to include acid and 'shrooms to his chemical diet. There are also many, many messages about setting up drug deals, his "clients", finding creative ways to meet up with people at the local drug houses, etc...

    So I leave, trying to get some info so I can talk to wife. I speak with a defense attorney about what McWeedy could be facing if caught. 14 months - or more - in prison, as an adult, at a minimum. That's if he "cooperates", i.e. rolls over on his suppliers and sellers. Otherwise it could be much, much worse. The attorney (who used to work for the public defender's office, and has worked with many teens in this situation) said that if the group involved is as big as his texts indicate, the police are probably already investigating and know about him. I get his card, thank him for his time, and move on.

    Next stop, Juvie, to speak with the nice man who's been trying to help me over the last few months. Unfortunately, at this point there's nothing they can do. I was hoping I could file a CINC (child in need of care) petition, but he said that our state wouldn't go for that because these are criminal issues, and would refer us to the local PD. He went on to say that the juvie system is already overloaded and overcrowded, and that if McWeedy is caught as a juvie, the DA would probably wait a few months 'till he's 18 and charge him as an adult. Money and politics - blech. But at this point, the probability of keeping him in the juvie system is very slim.

    The nice man went on to say that we had to pick from three bad choices: (a) look the other way, and try to enforce what rules we're able to in the house; (b) take everything we have to the police, or (c) kick him out. His suggestion is that the best of the bad options is to go to the PD, since he seems to be escalating his activities, doesn't fear any consequences from us, and kicking him out will only force him deeper into the culture that's currently destroying his life.

    Finally, I call his current doctor at the medication study for advice. He had only two things to say: (a) "If you told your son that you'd report him to the police if he kept dealing drugs, and he's still dealing drugs, why haven't you called the police?", and (b) if we could wait until our meeting tomorrow night (tonight) before doing anything, he'd try to use the "family session" to help.

    Okay, so I finally go home after all this. As suggested by others here, I try to calmly discuss this with wife to decide what to do. I explain everything that I've been told by the other professionals I talked to. I offered to bring her back to them or call them if she wanted to talk to them. Since the last thing she said was "I want him gone", I'm expecting her to blow up.

    Nope, pendulum has swung, and now she wants to try and "work with McWeedy to see the error of his ways and give him a chance to change". I strongly disagree, saying that he was already confronted two months ago with evidence of what he was doing, and was told that he'd be kicked out (or worse) if he kept it up. He's had his chance, and now's the time to make good on the consequences.

    Very plainly, wife tells me that she's NOT going to report her own child to the police, and that she's NOT going to kick him out without giving him the chance to "get better". "Get better? "Yes, inpatient rehab, treatment, and giving up his friends". I can't believe I'm hearing this, but I try to reason with wife. "He's never faced these potential consequences before". "Yes he has". "Not like this". "Yes he has - two months ago". "I'm going to give him one more chance - he said he'd try". "He said that two months ago, and a month before that, and many times before that. It won't work".

    Finally, she drops the bomb. "I won't report my son to the police. And if you do it, you'll have to divorce me in process".

    I don't know what to say. I leave to take the girls to the pool, and when I come back wife is all cheerful, like nothing ever happened. She informs me that she's talked to McWeedy, and that he's "really going to change - get help, give up his friends and the drug lifestyle, and get his life back on track". That's the end of it, and the topic doesn't come back up.

    Consequences? We don't need no stinkin' consequences.

    So, now what do I do? It's obvious McWeedy isn't going to change - he's only getting worse, and now he's doing things that put the whole family in jeopardy even more than before. And wife has threatened divorce if I do anything "drastic" other than give him a chance to prove he can change.

    I'm sure I've done everything wrong. I tried to get as much info as I could from the "people that know" (including you folks), went to wife in a quiet, closed room to try and formulate some plan of action and consequences, and was promptly shut down.

    But in the end, now we are the ones facing three choices, not McWeedy. Try to "work with him", report him, or kick him out. None of them are good. All are destructive. And I can't get wife to even discuss the last two options, even though I think they're the only ones left. The guy at Juvie said it best: "What's best for your family? Not just your son, but for your family?"

    He said to talk to wife and answer that question when discussing the only three options we had. His suggestion, by the way, is to report this stuff to the police. After 30 years of working with juvies in the system, he felt that "leaving him alone and hoping he'll change" will only cause him to sink deeper. Kicking him out will only force him into the very culture causing the problems, because it's the only place he can go.

    Regardless of what it "costs him", reporting him - even if he ends up in the adult system - will at least force him to pay some consequences for his poor choices, which is what's needed. He may even get help. It won't "help" if he doesn't want it, but he may get it anyway. And while it will put him in a situation that could be dangerous, is it any worse than the known dangers of his current path?

    Anyway, it doesn't really matter, since wife won't go along with anything other than repeating the same cycle of behaviors we've been circling through for the past year.

    Okay, that's the latest. Cut loose, I'm sure I deserve it. But I still am appreciative of all of you.

  14. Mikey

    Mikey Psycho Gorilla Dad

    CAMom, re: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it interesting and sad, now, and have found it interesting and sad for many months that, even though my husband and I went through VERY similar problems with our son about a year ago, and I've posted from my heart about them in response to Mikey's situation in posts on numerous occasions, I've gotten little or no responses. I've often thought that this is simply because our situation hits too close to home.</div></div>

    I deeply apologize if you feel that I've ignored you or what you have to offer from your own life. I readily acknowledge that you care enough to share yourself with me on these threads - and for that I am very appreciative. In response, I can only offer that lately it's been hard for me to post, other than to "blog" about what's going on. Occasionally, someone will strike a nerve, and I'll respond. But for now, it's pretty much all I can do to get down what's happening. It's a form of catharsis for me, and I don't even have the energy to inject much humor into my posts any more. It's all I can do to get down a "report", but I mean no disrespect by not replying to anyone kind enough to post a response.

    Frankly, at this point, I'd pretty much expect people to simply view my posts as nothing more than a rambling blog of my exploits with the Mighty McWeedy. But believe me, I read every reply. And in the last month or so, I've really tried to start making the changes many here suggested. But now an even bigger issue with wife has popped up, so I'm really in the whirlwind and disoriented. I expect it'll get worse before it gets better - the eye of storm hasn't even passed over yet, and the backside of the storm is usually worse...

    Again, I meant no disrespect to you, or anyone else who has taken the time to actually respond to my rantings here. Thank you for the concern you've shown. I greatly appreciate it (even if it doesn't appear that way). As long as I'm not booted off the board, I'll continue to blog my way through this mess, and will gratefully read and consider every reply that comes my way.

  15. Ephchap

    Ephchap Active Member


    No - no booting. I just want to share this with you, and you might want to share with your wife ...

    My son was actually younger than your son when he hit the bottom. He turned 17 in May, and it was now June, so he was barely 17 by a month. Your son is almost 18, so is much closer to the adult court system.

    He was arrested and charged with a felony - an adult felony - and it is on his record forever. They didn't care that he had just turned 17. It was just the way it was.

    Does your wife want to wait until your son is arrested and charged with a felony as an adult? Trust me. His life will never be the same.

    Not only can one not get a job because they have a felony on their record (and trust me, when they say they won't discriminate, they are lying. They do, and they don't care that my son was barely 17 and in any other state, it would have been sealed under juvie protection), but that felony follows him everywhere.

    He lied and answered no on the felony question where he works as a waiter/bartender. He's worked there since they opened 5 years ago. They've been talking to him about moving up to assistant manager or something. He keeps telling them he's not interested. You see, he's now stuck. If they promote him, they will do a background check and he will not only not get the promotion, but will be fired for having lied on the app 5 years ago. It's a vicious cycle.

    My son is trying to move into an apartment. They did a background check. Yes, you guessed it. The felony came up. Again, they don't care that he was barely 17 - a kid who screwed up - and is now 23 and has worked the same job for 5 years, trying to make something of himself. They only know that he has a felony on his record, and they don't want to rent to him.

    It's no wonder felons have such a hard time ever making something of themselves. The system won't let them.

    My point is that waiting might make things worse. I think you know that ... but your wife might want to rethink things. Waiting might put a felony on your son's adult record, which will change his life forever.

  16. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    I sure the h**l hope you didn't give him his phone back? Or his car? Please tell me you at least gave him a CONSEQUENCE for screwing up AGAIN??? He STOLE your wife's car and CREDIT CARD!!!!!

    He has you both by the short hairs. You are lucky that acid and shrooms is all he is doing. Or maybe that is all you know about. Remember, pot is JUST the gateway drug.

    People have brought this up to you in several posts, myself included, but you never seem to address it: You too are in recovery, correct? Are YOU hitting your meetings? Are YOU talking to your sponsor?

    Have you gotten your fanny to an Al-Anon meeting??
  17. Mikey

    Mikey Psycho Gorilla Dad

    Thanks Deb. I think what she's worried about is the fact that he's likely to be charged as an adult anyway, with all the problems you mentioned following him forever. That's the gist of what I got from the folks I talked to yesterday. The guy at juvie even went so far as to say that they may already know about McWeedy, know the juvie system is overloaded, and are simply waiting for him to turn 18 so he'll go straight into the adult system. He said it's already happened before to other near-adult kids.

    Right now, I'm pretty sure McWeedy has almost no chance of getting processed in the juvie system. 6 months ago, a year ago, maybe. So, in that, wife's fears are justified. But I wonder if there aren't worse things to deal with in your life than a felony that follows you around forever....

  18. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    Mikey, I couple of thoughts. 1. Can you get the guy from juvie to come talk to wife or drag her to him? Maybe hearing it from someone else will get her to open her eyes? 2. If you can't report him and can't kick him out, get him into rehab NOW. He can kick and scream and it may do no good but at least then wife knows you two have tried everything possible.

    In the meantime, it is truly important that neither of you make any threats you don't plan to follow through on. She cannot hysterically scream she wants him gone NOW and then totally back down the next minute. You can't say you won't do something and then turn around and do it anyway. Your son has no respect for either of you with good reason.

    You two have to be united in public. That means no threats by either side unless you two have had a chance to discuss it in private and then, no matter how hard, how painful, YOU STAND BY YOUR DECISIONS. No more silly discussions with McWeedy. It is time for both you and wife to say this is what will happen. Period. End of conversation. AND THEN DO IT.

    by the way -- If he's doing shrooms, acid and E, the odds are he is also snorting cocaine. Crack and meth are on the horizon if not already there.
  19. Mikey

    Mikey Psycho Gorilla Dad

    BBK: Phone is gone. I had to hide it in the house because I didn't want it to "disappear" or have the text messages mysteriously get deleted. If I have my way, he'll never get it back, and can find some other way to get a phone on his own.

    Tried to take the car, got overruled by the boss. Wasn't allowed to "bring the heat" for the credit card thing, either. If you read my earlier post, you can guess why. This thing with wife is bad, and until it's resolved I guess McWeedy will continue to pit us against each other. I'm trying, though. I really am.

    I agree about what we know - and don't know - about what he's doing. At first, he denied the acid and 'shrooms. That is, until I started quoting a few of his text messages back to him. "Oh, I don't remember that". Then, "I never did acid, and I only did shrooms once". Okay, I see where that is going. The kid should be a lawyer - "Deny, Deny, Deny!" is their motto. Unless the local PD pick him up on something, I doubt we'll ever know more than we do right now.

    McWeedy even offered to "release" the results of his drug tests from the medical study to us. Big deal. My Bro, who was on parole, scoured the internet for drugs that wouldn't show up on the tests his PO was using. He found them, and abused them for years while not dropping dirty on a single UA. He also found other things (like female hormones, I think) that can dramatically change the test results so they are inconclusive. I know that McWeedy did a lot of Googling for drug sites, so at this point I don't trust the results of a UA any more than I do my dog not to bite the postman (he throws the mail and runs, now).

    Not going to any meetings myself; haven't affiliated since I moved here, so I don't have a sponsor (haven't had one in years). Used to be that my wife was always there when I needed someone to talk to, but not any more - not with this. I may start soon, but lately it seems like I can barely get through the day - it's usually 11:30 or midnight before I can finally climb into bed and sneak in a few pages of Harry Potter before the book hits me in the face and I finally get to sleep.

  20. Mikey

    Mikey Psycho Gorilla Dad

    MB, re: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the meantime, it is truly important that neither of you make any threats you don't plan to follow through on.</div></div>

    I did, in fact, intend to follow through on all my threats. My mistake (a big one) was not making sure that wife was on the same page with me before threatening the consequences. Made the threat, rules were broken, now wife and I are on separate sides of the fence on what to do.

    My mistake. It won't happen again, and I don't make any threats any more. Not until wife and I work this out. 'Till then, I have to be content with suggesting a punishment, then executing it if wife has no objections. But forward planning with wife on consequences (or rewards) for actions now seems a long way off.

    If I had to guess, I'll probably end up having to choose between letting wife handle things (and watch McWeedy continue to spiral down the whirlpool), or do what I (and others) think is best for McWeedy against the will of my wife, and risk breaking up my family (but giving McWeedy a better chance at a decent - if not great - future).

    Some choice. But I don't deny that it's my fault that I am where I am. Now all I can do is look forward and try to find the best path through the mess.