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<blockquote data-quote="LostSF" data-source="post: 368303"><p>Thank you everyone for your thoughtful and insightful posts. I really appreciate it.</p><p></p><p>There were a lot of questions and ideas, so I'll try and respond in summary.</p><p></p><p>SD is somewhat of a difficult child with wife too... she regularly lies (and when wife tries to get her to stop she tells her "I'm going to keep lying, get used to it"), she (tries to) manipulate wife using guilt and anger, she's often rude and hostile to wife, etc. She's not at the "smashing things" or "going into a rage" level, but she's regularly disrespectful and hostile to a lot of people, to the point where all of her extended family, many of her teachers and even most of her classmates seem to avoid her. </p><p></p><p>However, it's really a love/hate thing with wife... she'll be angry and say/do things that hurt wife, but then she'll come to her for love and affection. But with me it's all hate, and I think that's what I find so hard -- if there were even the occasion "good" day, when she just treated me with basic respect (like saying good morning and good night), it would help. But for four years now, unless I speak to her, she says nothing back... and when she does speak back it's usually with attitude. She has also told several people, including her boyfriend, other relatives and her therapists that she hates me, but doesn't seem to be able to say why.</p><p></p><p>As far as discipline, that's totally wife's department, although I do give my opinions when wife and I are speaking privately. I've also recently tried to stop doing anything that she might see as a "father's job", e.g. saying goodnight before she goes to bed (which seems to bother her every time I do it). At first I thought it was helping, but this last week shows that's not the case.</p><p></p><p>I agree that the "spending time in her room" thing isn't abnormal for a teen... but she also completely ignores me when I'm in the room. Whenever she talks, she always starts it with "Mom...," even when I'm sitting right there with them. She rarely makes eye contact or even looks at me, she has never spoken to me unless I speak to her first, she'll get up and leave the room if it's just her and I there, etc. These things by themselves are one thing... but after living with it every day for several years I'm just feeling worn out.</p><p></p><p>I do understand where some of her resentment of me comes from -- she was always much closer to wife than her boyfriend, and I think she's jealous of the attention her mom gives me. We've tried very hard for a long time to make her feel a) included (by doing things as a family) and b) valued (she and wife regularly spend "girl nights" out together, I'll sometimes leave the room or the house so they can have some time together and talk freely, etc.</p><p></p><p>Plus as MidwestMom suggested, SD does feel a loss of control -- she didn't choose to have me in her life, and I think she resents that it's me saying good morning and good night to her and being in "her" house and not her father. I can understand that, and I empathize. But sometimes I just feel that being punished for SD's hurt and pain is not what I signed up for when I got married. But I know I have no one to blame for that but myself.</p><p></p><p>I guess I just expected that after a period of adjustment she would warm up to me or at least be able to tolerate my presence... but if anything it's getting worse. I actually was trying what Shari suggested, to be happy in spite of the way she is with me. The night before I posted, I turned up the music a little louder than usual, sang along and just tried to enjoy being alive. But I honestly think that made her more resentful, becuase her tone with me was even worse the next day. It almost feels like she thinks "if I'm not happy, no one else should be happy either."</p><p></p><p>I do agree with the suggestions of me seeing a therapist, of getting out of the house a little more and of not putting wife in the middle. I unfotunately did the last of those last night, and it ended with both wife and I crying in the bedroom. Not a good night. As a result of our conversation wife told SD that she needed to start treating me with basic respect, which SD did not like at all. She's been a little better today, but there's still plenty of attitude in her one-word replies. It makes me sad that I consider SD saying "yes" or "no" without attitude as a good day for us.</p><p></p><p>And really, that's all I want. I don't expect SD to say she loves me, or to think of me as her father or even a father figure. All I want at this point is some basic respect. This is something that both therapists have tried to work on with SD -- telling her that she doesn't have to like me, but that she should treat me with the same amount of respect that she'd treat any other person that was in her home. But no dice. Actually, the last time the therapist suggested it, SD threatened to move in with her father. It's like she decided it's her right to hate me, and that no one is going to take that away from her.</p><p></p><p>But I really appreciate hearing from MidwestMom that things got better in their house. That's the hardest part of it -- not knowing how long it's going to be like this. SD alternates between saying she's going to run away when she's 16 to saying she's going to live with us until she's 30, and the thought of another 5, 10 or 15 years of living in a house like this makes me wanted to curl up in a ball (or run screaming for the hills). What gets me through is believing that things may some day get better, so thank you for helping to fuel that hope.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="LostSF, post: 368303"] Thank you everyone for your thoughtful and insightful posts. I really appreciate it. There were a lot of questions and ideas, so I'll try and respond in summary. SD is somewhat of a difficult child with wife too... she regularly lies (and when wife tries to get her to stop she tells her "I'm going to keep lying, get used to it"), she (tries to) manipulate wife using guilt and anger, she's often rude and hostile to wife, etc. She's not at the "smashing things" or "going into a rage" level, but she's regularly disrespectful and hostile to a lot of people, to the point where all of her extended family, many of her teachers and even most of her classmates seem to avoid her. However, it's really a love/hate thing with wife... she'll be angry and say/do things that hurt wife, but then she'll come to her for love and affection. But with me it's all hate, and I think that's what I find so hard -- if there were even the occasion "good" day, when she just treated me with basic respect (like saying good morning and good night), it would help. But for four years now, unless I speak to her, she says nothing back... and when she does speak back it's usually with attitude. She has also told several people, including her boyfriend, other relatives and her therapists that she hates me, but doesn't seem to be able to say why. As far as discipline, that's totally wife's department, although I do give my opinions when wife and I are speaking privately. I've also recently tried to stop doing anything that she might see as a "father's job", e.g. saying goodnight before she goes to bed (which seems to bother her every time I do it). At first I thought it was helping, but this last week shows that's not the case. I agree that the "spending time in her room" thing isn't abnormal for a teen... but she also completely ignores me when I'm in the room. Whenever she talks, she always starts it with "Mom...," even when I'm sitting right there with them. She rarely makes eye contact or even looks at me, she has never spoken to me unless I speak to her first, she'll get up and leave the room if it's just her and I there, etc. These things by themselves are one thing... but after living with it every day for several years I'm just feeling worn out. I do understand where some of her resentment of me comes from -- she was always much closer to wife than her boyfriend, and I think she's jealous of the attention her mom gives me. We've tried very hard for a long time to make her feel a) included (by doing things as a family) and b) valued (she and wife regularly spend "girl nights" out together, I'll sometimes leave the room or the house so they can have some time together and talk freely, etc. Plus as MidwestMom suggested, SD does feel a loss of control -- she didn't choose to have me in her life, and I think she resents that it's me saying good morning and good night to her and being in "her" house and not her father. I can understand that, and I empathize. But sometimes I just feel that being punished for SD's hurt and pain is not what I signed up for when I got married. But I know I have no one to blame for that but myself. I guess I just expected that after a period of adjustment she would warm up to me or at least be able to tolerate my presence... but if anything it's getting worse. I actually was trying what Shari suggested, to be happy in spite of the way she is with me. The night before I posted, I turned up the music a little louder than usual, sang along and just tried to enjoy being alive. But I honestly think that made her more resentful, becuase her tone with me was even worse the next day. It almost feels like she thinks "if I'm not happy, no one else should be happy either." I do agree with the suggestions of me seeing a therapist, of getting out of the house a little more and of not putting wife in the middle. I unfotunately did the last of those last night, and it ended with both wife and I crying in the bedroom. Not a good night. As a result of our conversation wife told SD that she needed to start treating me with basic respect, which SD did not like at all. She's been a little better today, but there's still plenty of attitude in her one-word replies. It makes me sad that I consider SD saying "yes" or "no" without attitude as a good day for us. And really, that's all I want. I don't expect SD to say she loves me, or to think of me as her father or even a father figure. All I want at this point is some basic respect. This is something that both therapists have tried to work on with SD -- telling her that she doesn't have to like me, but that she should treat me with the same amount of respect that she'd treat any other person that was in her home. But no dice. Actually, the last time the therapist suggested it, SD threatened to move in with her father. It's like she decided it's her right to hate me, and that no one is going to take that away from her. But I really appreciate hearing from MidwestMom that things got better in their house. That's the hardest part of it -- not knowing how long it's going to be like this. SD alternates between saying she's going to run away when she's 16 to saying she's going to live with us until she's 30, and the thought of another 5, 10 or 15 years of living in a house like this makes me wanted to curl up in a ball (or run screaming for the hills). What gets me through is believing that things may some day get better, so thank you for helping to fuel that hope. [/QUOTE]
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