Just had the weirdest epiphany.

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Jabberwockey, Dec 23, 2014.

  1. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    Driving home from the store tonight, I had the weirdest epiphany. One of my favorite songs, Snowblind Friend by Steppenwolf, is a song about difficult child's. A bit random, I know but it just really hit me tonight. Hoping it doesn't mess the song up for me! :embarrassed:
    Here is a link to the song with lyrics on youtube
  2. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    It was epiphany time for me too, to realize there were soldiers younger than my son who were alone, far from home, and truly in grave danger.

    And they were not blaming their mothers or whining about their light bills.

    I love the line about the mother in this song.

  3. 2much2recover

    2much2recover Well-Known Member

    Yes, MEN, real men, not momma's boys! I thought about this too - and all those real adults just doing their jobs lost on 911, especially the police and firefighters who ran into the building when others were running out.
  4. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    Most of them aren't men yet, just trying to be. Every once in a while I still think about how many people I had to show how to use the washer and dryer when I was in the service. It just amazed me that their parents never taught them how to do laundry. I'm from a large family so have been doing chores as long as I can remember. Started helping cook dinner when I was around 10 years old. Mom and Dad both worked full time and Mom's hours varied, cashier at a local grocery store. We all had to pitch in because by the time I got to around 10 years old, my older sisters were starting to work as well. Learning to fend for ourselves and help out around the house was necessity, not choice.

    My apologies. I just watched the video and realized someone put it together to make a statement. I was just looking for lyrics, sorry.
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2014
  5. 2much2recover

    2much2recover Well-Known Member

    Jabber I have had friends that have discussed the facts that most of us got jobs and a lot of times more than one when we were young. I had my first job when I was 13. It does seem that a lot of the younger people don't want to work even if they do want a job. I attribute it to "screen-time", games, social media etc. faces stuck in their phones. So busy doing nothing they have no time for a real job!
  6. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    I agree with you on that, but the screen time isnt just games and social media. Think about how many of us grew up with only a few channels on tv to choose from. We were living high on the hog with a whopping six, count them...SIX, tv channels! ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, an independent channel, and a UHF channel. Most were lucky to have just the major three. Now there are channels to cover everything, multiple channels for music, cartoons, sci fi, drama, and so on. I had my first official, getting a paycheck job, at 15. We all got allowances before we started working from mom and dad but it was dependent on us not only doing our chores but doing them properly. If I didnt mow the lawn up to my dads standards, I did it again and he would probably find something extra for me to do.
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Disagree. It depends on the kids. All of jumpers friends, all of them, and even Julie and her friends had jobs. The reason was they did not have any money if they didn't have a job. It had nothing to do with the internet or television. If working is the only way to get money for nice clothes or driving, you work if you want it. The parents here tend to expect their kids to earn things themselves. Most do have their own cars, but not brand new nice cars that they have no responsible for keeping up.

    Now that Jumper is eighteen I run into her even more well-to-do friends everywhere as workers. I've seen two at McD's (both high income parents), and many in retail stores and other fast food restaurants. One works in a nursing home and goes full time to college, quite a load. She does not complain. It is the personality of the child. Our kids that we talk about here don't work. We are here because we have adult kids who are not doing what they are supposed to do at their age level or even in society. So it seems HERE that most kids don't work. I don't see that in real life.

    Where I live parents are basically doing ok. Some are doing a little less well, like us, and some are doing far better. The one common thread seems to be that the parents do expect their kids to grow up, work, go to school or work full time and pitch in as well as respect the family. The kids who are off-the-rails...we all know who they are. It's no secret. Small town Jumper and Sonic grew up in (although the bigger city nearby has the same sort of culture). The town difficult children do not work. They take drugs. They get into trouble. They get thrown out of their homes, then come back again. Then...rinse, repeat. They do not go back to school. Many were in alternative school then dropped out entirely. Some got high school degree, but nothing afterward...sitting around, smoking dope or worse, getting their girlfriends pregnant, or, if girls, getting pregnant. I can think of one off the top of my head and I cringe at both how ill-equipped she is to have a baby and how horrifying her boyfriend looks. I know you can't always judge a book by it's cover, but his face is pierced and tatooed, his hair is wild and greasy, he dresses like he picked his clothes out of the garbage, and he has a loving prosperous family. Where will he ever be able to work that will accept piercings and tatooes all over his face and arms? Some are skulls. At 20, his face is already going to impede him to work. Sad. But he has always been a problem. I can't imagine that he works and no job is listed on his FB (Jumper told me to check him out). All he says is he is trying to get a band together. Good luck with that.

    difficult children are the exception, not the rule. Most people want to be independent and have good lives and are competitive at least to the point that they want to do what they feel flows with society. difficult children are different. It's not the videogames. It's not the TV. It's not the cell phones. All kids have that and most kids are not difficult children. It is the hardwiring of the particular person plus the degree that the parent of that difficult child allows that difficult child to get away without working or doing to school or standing alone. It is called enabling because that's what it is. Some people are going to fail no matter what we do, even if we cut off the money. They learn how to live on the streets. There is a culture there and it appeals to some. People on the streets are NOT alone. Often, they learn ways to get money, non-conventional, such as begging or stealing or conning people. Street people have ways.
    Prostitution? I'd rather not even go there...but...

    I always get a bit touchy when the things that every child has access to are turned into the reason "Kids are worse nowadays." Every single generation always thinks their generation did it better and there are a list of reasons why it is so, in their minds. This generation is fine, most of them. Nobody can judge young adults by difficult children. Even when our adult k ids live home longer because it is harder to get a job, most of them are not doing drugs, refusing work, not helping in the house, asking us for movie money, crashing up our cars, throwing childish tantrums, etc. etc. etc. And most have a goal to move out as soon as he/she can. Adults tend to be independent if they are not difficult children...lol. If!
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2014
  8. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    MWM, that wasnt meant to be an over generalization but looking back at it I cant deny that it was. I was only trying to point out the differences in my child hood and my sons and what little I know of his friends. Looking at the posts, I didnt do a very good job of that! Sorry.
  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Jabber, I know. But that was YOUR family. There were always screw up kids. I knew many. I grew up during the hippie generation in a very, very rich town where the kids were sooooooo monetarily spoiled. The Govenor of IL lived in our town. Half of the kids in our town, who had very successful parents, seemed to end up in Hippiesville, on drugs, and, because our school was THE liberal school, we had a smoking lounge there, kids high and drunk sleeping on the floor and one overdose a week, at least. I hated it. I love the giving and loving every race and ethnic group equally part of liberalism, but I dislike the lack of discipline at home and the entitlement (almost all of our rich suburban town was very politically liberal and had Dr. Spock parental values). My parents didn't do it because they were cheap...lol. So we didn't have as much which I think was a good thing. I was on my own at eighteen and I made it and still never lost my heart in spite of maltreatment of my family. I actually feel that, in a way, their refusal to sustain a very immature and learning disabled eighteen year old (myself) REALLY helped me. I had to grow up fast and I did.

    If my parents had been touchy feely, and felt too sorry for me, and coddled me...life was harder for me than most kids. I had bipolar on top of learning disabilities. What a good excuse for me to not grow up. I didn't really want to. New ideas scared me. Being alone scared me. But I was forced and I did it. I DID IT!

    I think difficult children stay difficult children because maybe life is a little harder for them, for whatever reason, and their parents help keep them young and feel too sorry for them, as if they CAN'T do this or that. But if you have to, it's amazing what you can do, even if it is learning how to survive in the homeless culture, which was not on my personal agenda. But some adults prefer it to rules.

    Every society blames it's young for being too spoiled, too entitled, too this or too that, but I think it is just the personality of the young adult coupled with parents who allow that difficult child to keep being that way. It is easy to feel sorry for a young adult who had trouble in school or social problems, etc. But I see my autistic son doing more stuff than most of these difficult children do and I feel it is attitude. I do feel we have to force those who are tentative about growing up into doing it, one way or the other, or they may be children forever. It is a process such as stacking blocks. You can't expect a Peter Pan to be Mr. Responsible without setting the first block down young. If so, you may have to build faster once they are older. Know what I mean??

    I hope you are having a great holiday. I really enjoy both you and your wife. You are such incredible people. If I ever offend either of you, let me know as I value both of your input. I wish your son could see what great parents he has. Maybe, in his heart, he does know it.
  10. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    I was raised in a small town farming community as was Lil. My parents have liberal and conservative ideals. Kind of hard to describe but basically, they knew when to be touchy feely and when to put the smackdown on us! They assisted us in doing things when we were stuck but knew at what point to back of and let us run alone again. Part of that was the fact that they raised seven kids and by the time I came along, being number five of said seven, they pretty much had it down to a science.

    LOL! Dont worry MWM! You may shock us from time to time but you have yet to offend. We understand that you are giving you're opinion based on you're life experiences. You've made it quite clear that you arent trying to judge us or run our lives, just give us some help based on you're life knowledge.
  11. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    LOL...thanks, Jabby.

    I think I"ve covered my family background well...lol. I don't know what style of parenting they used. I guess I'd call it The Screw-Your-Kid-Up-Special...lol. We didn't have chores or structure or many rules, but if we did anything they thought was wrong, that's when we learned we had done something wrong!

    Now we live in a smaller town, middle class, much more stable, less flamboyant and eccentric people (trust me, I grew up in a town full of drama queens and kings who were very, er, colorful). I prefer this so much more. Not too far away part of our area is rural. It's pretty conservative around here, although not crazily so. Moderately so. Mostly kind church people who do care about their kids, but, of course, many exceptions.

    I prefer that to having the kids running our high school (which we did in the late 60's and early 70's in Skokie, IL). Bad news, although some kids loved it. We had a smoking lounge just for kids, a sunning area in the courtyard where we could take off our regular clothing and lay down in bathing suits. The downstairs bathroom nearest to the exit was the pot bathroom and you got high just doing your business, even if nobody was currently smoking in it. It's a bloody miracle I turned away from drugs because the environment I grew up in was so pro-drugs that the parents openly smoked pot with their kids and this was in the 1970s, so a while ago. It wasn't a popular idea yet. Pot was not accepted at all.

    On the other hand we also had Fonzie-type greaser kids too who dressed like him, but were much, much, much meaner, tended to be also advanced drug addicts and overdosed. They were from another town (both went to the same high school) and routinely got into fights with our upscale peers, who routinely lost those fights. Once there was almost a gang-like war....greasers and hippies...because the hippies lowered the flag because 36 teachers were fired. Wow, that was drama!

    We had open campus and the nearby restaurants were livid as their establishments were routinely vandalized and stoen from by both groups of kids. Often kids were found with stuff stuffed in their pockets along with a parental credit card or $200 (these were the upscale kids).

    So about ten years later, I went back to visit the school. What a change. The smoking lounge was no longer there...hmmmmmmmmm. The sunbathing area was likewise gone. There were people in the hallways asking to see passes...I mean, real, live adults keeping order in the court! I peeked into the pot bathroom and it just smelled like any ole bathroom. Not even cigarette smoke.

    When I talked to the principal about the days of chaos, he smiled and said, "That was terrible. It didn't work too well, did it?"

    So, see? difficult children existed way back when and in certain areas. All of my three closest friends were huge difficult children who took drugs, two got pregnant (had abortions), slept around big time and drove their parents nuts. I did none of those things, but I had the car so I was their ride and their way to get to the parties their parents didn't want them to go to. In a way, I was their tool for rebellion. I also dated tons and tons, but never had sex and am, to this day, the only person in that age bracket whom I know of who was a virgin when I got married. I did marry young...20. But, again, sex was HUGE then, as it is now, and I just wonder how I decided to "just say no" to peer pressure, but never had any trouble with that. I didn't care about joining in.

    It is still amusing to me that with all this going on around me, I never have been drunk in my entire life and have only tried pot a few times and that was to tell other kids "I DID try it and I DON'T like it." My parents probably thought I was drinking, taking drugs and partying with the worst. But I wasn't. I was too afraid and not interested and struggling very much with serious mental health issues that I knew would be made worse if I drank or used drugs or got pregnant. I was not a happy teen. I wanted so badly to be good, but my parents saw me as bad. And I almost flunked out of school due to my LDs. I was really struggling to stay afloat and was miserably depressed most of the time.I hated the world. If I had taken drugs, I would have been a fast addict. I'm grateful that I decided to shun them early on.

    Sorry for the ride back in time...lol. Just like so many things in my life, it feels like it never happened. I know it did, but it sounds too crazy, even to me who it happened to, to be real.

    That was the environment I grew up in. Cozy, huh? :)
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2014
  12. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member

    It kind of does lol, I like it.