Just how a lot of us are feeling

[HaoZi]

DDD, one of the bottom lines is their own bottom line. The people with more money are also more likely to vote. If everyone in the U.S. who is eligible to vote actually did so, things would be a lot different. As it is, a very low percentage of people vote and they obviously vote for what is best for them, not for the majority of citizens.

 

[muttmeister]

Wealthy people tend to have more tax write-offs than we poor peons who don't have a lot of deductions so, actually, they often don't pay as much as we do. Warren Buffet lives in my state. He has pointed out numerous times that his secretary pays more taxes than he does. Even he says it's not fair.\

A flat tax system might be the way to go but they'll never pass it here because it would get rid of all the deductions and all of the special interest groups would fight it tooth and nail.

 

[HaoZi]

Flat tax systems are inherently flawed and unfair. 10% tax would hurt those who make the least while hardly denting the lives of those that make the most. Sliding rates make more sense, though there is no system that is completely fair to everyone.

 

[keista]

Fair tax? As in a Notional Sales tax? Ah, yeah, NO THANK YOU. The ONLY way I'd get behind that idea is if they charged the tax on investment purchases as well as on interest income.

in my opinion a fair tax would have the rich paying even less proportionate to their income.

Poor person lives paycheck to paycheck as it is. Entire paycheck = Y Hike the sales tax up, and they will be in a deficit. X% of their entire paycheck goes to the tax.

Rich person spends the same Y amount of dollars every week but their paycheck is bigger so they are able to put away Z amount of $ in savings or investments. Hike up the sales tax, and they will have to spend more than the Y amount to live, and will have to pull it from investments and savings, but will still have $ left for savings and investment.

The Fair tax is based on spending as opposed to earning and in my opinion is NOT 'fair' at all.

Corporations will pay even less in taxes (proportionate to their income) because they spend even less money on taxable items. To even attempt to make it equitable, companies would have to pay the "fair tax" on the amounts they pay their employees.

 

[AnnieO]

Keista, actually, from what I understand... the Fair Tax is based on a simple premise - those who have money, spend it on - yachts, mansions, Ferraris, etc. Those who don't buy small houses, Fords or Chevys, and if they're lucky one year they get to go out on a boat at some lake. Or rent a canoe.

Tax is proportionate.

PLUS - for those earning less than "middle class", there is a monthly "prebate" - a check that comes in, based on earnings; this helps out.

Now - the national sales tax would be 23% - BUT - no payroll tax. And prices would necessarily drop for basic items (bread, fruit, meat, dairy), and maybe go up for non-basic (pop, cigarettes, liquor, candy).

I don't think taxing what I EARN is fair, considering then they turn around and tax what I spend. Plus, with a Fair Tax - no more breaks, loopholes, corporate yada yada. No more impossible rules and no more filing once a year to pay or get back the money they shouldn't have had in the first place.

Yeah, I've done research...

Then again, I could be wrong. But this is how it is presented and I got it...

 

[BusynMember]

Personally I don't think it will hurt the rich to be taxed a little more (no, I don't care what % they already pay...they still have it easy).

As somebody who is lower middle class, sometimes we can barely get groceries (not asking anyone to feel sorry for us...we make due). But no matter WHAT congress does, I DON'T CARE. I just want the debt ceiling raised. We need our SS check...and I an outraged at the thought of our vets not getting paid...just because a certain faction of the government thinks all entitlements are wrong and wants to make a statement about it at this critical time in our country's financial history.

I am an Indenpedent, the voter everyone tries to captivate. Guess what? I'm NOT amused. Next election cycle, I will be voting out almost all of the incumbents that I can. I'm so tired of both parties, I could scream.

I'd like to start a new party called The Sanity Party.

 

[keista]

a check that comes in, based on earnings

And how do they know how much you are earning if no one is paying payroll taxes? Payroll taxes also go for SS and medicare. How's that going to work? No more SS or medicare? Payments are based on income over your lifetime. The prebate wouldn't touch the middle class. It's only up to the poverty level.


Yeah, no more corporate loopholes, but corporations would be paying even less in taxes because their big expenditures are NOT on taxable items - items used for personal consumption eg paper, office furniture, etc. f they taxed services such as landscaping, legal and accounting services, this would increase tax burden on corporations, but increase it for the 'regular' ppl as well. It would also add to tax evasion of turning over this tax. Businesses at the retail level collect the tax and turn it in. States are already burdened with going after evaders, this would increase.

No sales tax on house purchases, but if implemented, that would affect the 'regular' folks too.

Yeah, no thanks.

 

[muttmeister]

Flat tax systems are inherently flawed and unfair

.

I don't think I agree with that. I do think that they would have to set a bottom figure and say everybody who makes less than x amount of dollars pays nothing but beyond that, I think it is fair. Say we settle on 10%: That is less than most middle income people are paying now but it is more than most wealthy people are paying (after all of their deductions.

I do like the idea of a sliding scale but I don't see how that is fair. If you are willing to work hard enough to make a lot of money, should you then be expected to pay 35 or 40% tax when somebody else who is just sluffing along pays far less?

No matter what system we have, somebody is going to complain that it is unfair to them. But the system we have now definitely sux.

 

[Fran]

We should tax churches, their property and their income. It's time for them to stop having a free ride too.

 

[AnnieO]

Good points... Honestly, though - I get taxed on goods for personal consumption, and so does the company I work for - a government contractor. Services, not so much.

The sales tax would be high enough to cover SS and Medicare. Also, just because you are not paying taxes wouldn't mean they couldn't say corporations didn't have to turn in earnings statements. It could be a requirement. Therefore - the IRS guys get to keep their jobs.

Regardless - taxation is horrible in any way, shape, or form. And Congress needs to get their act together and say, yeah, go ahead. The nitpicky manure can be haggled over later. Of course... Later, to them, is never...