Just spoke with-PO's super!!

[klmno]

I'm going to have to mull all this over- if the judge is still willing to hear this and let me speak, I can let them all know what is going on and why I couldn't tell PO. (Nothing like me abusing him or nothing more than I've already psoted here), but PO does nothing but blames me for these things- in front of difficult child. Anyway, given that the judge has difficult child 1 inch away from state juvy, she might come to see it like I do- Residential Treatment Center (RTC) is the LRE.

And, I don't want to forget that difficult child spent the night he was discharged last week, pulling on his hair telling me that he could not stand his life, he couldn't deal with it, it was overwhelming, he was sorry for ruining my life, and his life and destrouying the house, but nothing has helped him and the psychiatric hospital doesn't help him at all. Now, where do I get my son help? I told psychiatrist this today plus about the knife- both happened within about the past 2 weeks. I think psychiatrist is taking things serious. I know he was doing a lot of writing.

Last night he told me that he could kill everyone in the world and when no one else is left, he would kill himself. Then, 10 mins later, he was telling me that he didn't know what just got into him, that he didn't really feel that way. Now, is behavior mod going to fix that or is it going to teach him how to hide it?

 

[JJJ]

Klmno,

I would call all those places, write down the name of who you talked to, what they said, etc. and type it all up and fax it to the PO's super tomorrow.

I found the same response when I started looking for an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for Kanga. Everyone thought I was a great mom who advocated for her daughter until I started looking toward an Residential Treatment Center (RTC). Then I was this evil adoptive mom who just wanted to get rid of her kid.

Wrap services here are more like what you are describing (respite, mentoring, counseling, etc.)

I hope this starts to move things in a positive direction.

 

[klmno]

Thank you, JJJ!! I am going to do that- and yes, I think somehow, those people have to know that I meant it when I said why would I bother going thru this if I didn't want what was in my son's best interest- all I had to do was go tell judge he's out of control and turn him over to state juvy.

What they don't realize yet is that these letters from therapist and psychiatrist were written before the incident that led to the last psychiatric hospital stay. When sw at psychiatric hospital called therapist and asked his opinion, therapist told her what he and I discussed before that week's incidences. I did subsequently tell therapist what happened and then difficult child told him too, privately, so obviously not coerced. I told the PO and wrote in my letter to judge that his last psychiatric hospital stay was a willing admission after I called police on him for becoming agressive at home. None of the county people have asked specificaly what he did and I have not volunteered it. Then, after what difficult child said the night he came home about nothing helping him and him not being able to stand his life any longer leads me to believe that he is a serious threat to self or others.

That is the ONE exception for not having to go thru their process and while PO might shake that off or flip out and have difficult child turned over to state and just blame it on my bad parenting or lash out at me over it and her super acted like it was no big deal what I had told him to this point, the judge will possibly take note. If nothing else, it will go down as testimony.

Of course, this past week or so, difficult child has become gradually more stable, with one exception. Wouldn't it be about like things for him to be just fine after another week, since recent medication changes? I'm still going to try to do something- usually, his most manic-prone period is from Jan to mid-April.

 

[Ropefree]

yes!klmno; light there is some LIGHT and it is coming through the tunnel. I hope you do find a place that has JUST WHAT YOU NEED and they DO TAKE the county funding! Perfict...and when I read the word respite ....I felt goosebumps...klmno with respite services in the mix. that is just as good as a holiday vacation package to this crowd of single mothers in the do it all section. I am going right now and put on my party slippers and jump for joy on my bed....moms with their kid in respite can SLEEP IN!

 

[Marguerite]

I think that was a really productive call, in the end. Very well done!

Now you have to follow through. DDD gave you some really gooad advice - do what you promised to but write it all down as you go. It's a good habit to be in anyway - I always take detailed notes. Where posible I make the calls while I'm at the computer with a text file open. I try to keep it all on one file. I begin a new call with a new paragraph, beginning with the date. Then I put the phone number and the name of the person I'm calling as well as what the business name is. I do this before I make the vcall and then I list te issues I want to raise. This is handy in the event I get an answering machine, so I simply note that I left the message indicated and move to the next call. During the call, if I get to talk to a person, I try to take detailed notes, being able to quote the other person word for word is vital.

After the call I go back and add any vibes or other notes. I also will add in square brackets or something else to indicate it's my thoughts and not what was said, some more ideas the call has stimulated. For example, if it makes me want to follow a different direction.

When you get back to the PO's boss, don't give him the complete list (it might not be appropriate) but instead prepare a summarised list of who you called, when and what was said. If it's already on the computer it should be quick and easy.

And when you find someone like that and you want him to have a more detailed personal point of view, invite him for coffee. Or arrange to go meet him (taking difficult child with you).

Always make it clear that you are open to sensible suggestions, and you want sensible suggestions so you can give them serious consideration; ANYTHING that can help difficult child is worth thinking about. Sometimes lateral thinking is needed. However, that you aren't just trying to get a kid into Residential Treatment Center (RTC) as your only option.

I hope this guy comes through for you. If nothing else, you've shown him that the PO's description of you doesn't quite tally.

Marg

 

[CrazyinVA]

klmo, the comment you make about the powers that be not knowing that the letters were written before the latest incident.. is why I suggested you write up a timeline of events and actions you've taken to get difficult child help. This was extremely useful for me when things were crazy with Youngest ... I updated it and provided it to everyone to show them how things were progressing to beyond a crisis point, and to document all the steps I'd taken to seek help, including following every recommendation given to me. I know it may seem like one more thing you have to do... but it really is helpful.

 

[TerryJ2]

At least he cooperated during the conversation and actually heard you. That's a huge improvement!

 

[bran155]

I am sorry I am so late to this. With my daughter being home now I have limited alone time on the computer.

I am glad you are finally getting somewhere. I am surprised though that you are the one who has to find the placement. My daughter's po did all of the leg work, sent out referal packets, then which ever place was willing to take her we went to visit. In any event, at least you are making progress. And yes, they ARE confusing your GOOD PARENTING with pickiness. You are only difficult to deal with because you actually care. You have every right in the world to be picky with regards to what your sons needs are. Kudos to you for not allowing them to intimidate you!!! Good for you girl!!!!

Keeping my fingers crossed that all goes well.

 

[klmno]

Thanks all! I am documenting- but not as neatly as I should be so it stays easy to access- I need to work on that.

As far as me having to do the leg work- I don't have to- this was something he threw out as an option because I was uncomfortable about trusting the PO to find a place/person that has experience in mental illness and not just focusing on a kid who has conduct issues. He said they had a couple of places they normally contract with and said if I knew of others or wanted to find other in home services that were legit, licensed, accepted county funding, then I could call around and tell them myself what I was looking for and ask my questions and check them out. I thought it was great that he offered that.

You know, the places I'm looking at on the websites as I'm developing my list of questions say they have consultations, counseling, etc to help people learn about their mental illness and how to manage it, help getting functional again when they are unstabel, etc., for ADULTS but they seem to want to focus everything on the family if the person is under 21. Don't they think people under 21 have mental illness that isn't the family's fault?

 

[mom_to_3]

It does sound like you are getting somewhere and that's good. I do have a question though................. Do you think it's fair to the PO and the school district and the other committee's you are looking at to help you, to not have all of the facts to base their opinions on? Maybe this is why you can't get the help for your son that you think he needs?

You are reacting and upset at their lack of "help" but yet, you haven't given everybody the same or even all of the same information to make decisions on. Everyone needs to be on the same page and you have to be consistent.

I know you don't trust many/any of these people, but I see it as more of a hindrance for you to not be completely truthful with everyone. No one can give you the help you want/need if you don't give them all the facts they need to make decisions. I don't think the judge, the po, the school district or all the powers that be, are going to consider you reliable and forthright since you didn't lay it all out in the open to begin with.

You have to be able to trust them and they also need to trust in what you say. Think about it, no one is going to send a child to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) just because they are bipolar, are having moods swings, doing minor cutting, won't go to school and because you his mother is overwhelmed. I promise I am not slighting you in the least, just offering my observation in hopes of more help coming your way. Good luck.

 

[klmno]

I know, I'm mulling that over. Of course, the psychiatric hospital, psychiatrist, and therapist have them all. Well, psychiatrist doesn't realize extent of damage to house probably, but that's because our time ran out yesterday. SD and PO knows all except difficult child holding knife at my throat. The sd knows more than the PO about how I'm actually living. This PO may be in a position of authority, but she reallyy is not knowledgable enough about mental illness (she rolls her eyes if I discuss mood cycling for instance) and cannot handle things well enough and is truthfully biased. Her super does not seem that way, for the most part. The letter from sw at psychiatric hospital says in home first, then psychiatric Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for medication stabilization.

They all do know that difficult child had waived a knife around and pointed it at me before. Most immediately wanted to just punish difficult child for that and forget any mental health treatment- it was all a behavior issue.

Some of these people are very unfamiliar with mental illness in general, and want to look for a person to blame- me or difficult child- and with his suspended sentence, I have been scared to death of some of them. Plus, like PO is always holding it over my head so the last thing I want is to give her more ammunition. I went to a therapist by myself and laid everything on the table and have been following her advice. It's like when you take your kid to the psychiatric hospital- you let the sd know, but the sd doesn't need to know every detail discussed with psychiatric hospital staff. The original appraoch was to go thru county team, with minimal Department of Juvenile Justice involvement, so that I could lay it all on the table. It didn't work out that way so now I have to try to do this in a way that gets mental health care instead of landing my son in state juvy. I'm very glad that someone from Department of Juvenile Justice besides the PO has gotten involved.

I'm sorting thru info and listing needs etc to call and check places out. I have 3 on my list so far. But now I'm thinking, shoulld I ask super to meet with me and a person from one of these agencies, so I can lay it all out on the table and see what they think?

 

[CrazyinVA]

"they seem to want to focus everything on the family if the person is under 21. Don't they think people under 21 have mental illness that isn't the family's fault? "

klmo, I don't want to minimize your concerns or hurt your feelings, but if I may be so bold, I think you are a bit overly sensitive to this issue. Just because they focus on the family doesn't mean they think it's the family's "fault." I think it's crucial that therapists focus on the entire family when treating a difficult child under 18. The family dynamic can sometimes make or break a difficult child's progress. Although nothing was my "fault," I had to learn new ways of dealing with my difficult children and their cycles, they had to learn ways of dealing with me and my reactions. It's all related. That doesn't mean that one-on-one therapy with the difficult child is any less essential, but that by itself, without pulling the family into it and making sure everyone is on the same page, isn't going to do much good. I think it's more important for people under 21 because they are all living at home and being supported by their families; that's why there's more focus on it than there is with adults.

Try to let that one go. Give this a chance, and try not to overanalyze (as all we parents of difficult child's are prone to do!) Wait until you've actually talked to these people, and digested what they've offered you, before deciding if it will or will not work for you and difficult child.

 

[klmno]

I don't mind that part of it- if I discuss with the therapist how this turns into a nightmare situation for us first. But there seems to be an essential element traded out when they are under 21. The part where they educate the person about their illness and how to maintain it. Now, I obviously understand that as a kid, I'm not going to make it all difficult child's responsibility and leave it up to him to make sure medications are taken and sugar isn't laying around, etc, but he does need to learn that he has to take some control of his illness and management of it and quit blaming it all on me. That being said, there are some tdocs who really do seem to beleive that BiPolar (BP) doesn't exist in a kid- if he's acting out, it is because the family is triggering something.

 

[DDD]

No, I don't think you should "ask the Super" to do anything. He has made a step by offering you involvement in the searching process instead of just leaving you outside of the loop. He is not now..or ever..going to say OMG YOU are right and my employee the PO is wrong. It's not gonna happen.

on the other hand you have been given his time on the telephone. He has listened to your presentation which obviously is different than his PO's. Be grateful for those things but don't delude yourself into believing that he or anyone in the system is going to embrace you or your thoughts. Respect is the top goal.

You have been so "anti" the PO's suggestions (and, yes, I do understand why!) that you have to bury that and become "pro" the best services for your difficult child. Stick to the task of exploring and gathering info as suggested by the Super. Don't overanalyze alternative steps. Stick to the task and if you do not feel up to it (all of us have gotten completely drained for certain time periods dealing with difficult child issues and trying to stay strong) see if there is any friend, family member, church member, school person who might volunteer to make the calls with you at their side. It is really very important that you do not make calls sounding like you are on "the edge" as the program or facility will immediately decide that you might be the problem. YES...I KNOW....that is not fair but I am a realist and I am
confident that I am right.

by the way I also think you need to consider the possibiity that by welcoming in home help as offered you will be showing the spirit of cooperation that might subsequently lead to the dawning of the outsiders. They may very well then SEE that his needs are far more complex.

Sending hugs along with above "not huggy" sounding advice. DDD

 

[klmno]

Ok, but then what do I do about the fact that I can't work full time and maintain everything while giving that a chance and continuing to pput all the time and energy into giving difficult child the best care and exploring every opportunity. For instance, there are more upcoming meetings at school, difficult child will now be having a sleep study. I do WANT to explore these things. But I don't have the resources to keep covering all this as thoroughly as I have been for the past 2 years. I can't think of a solution that meets all those needs- that's why I think I need a brainstorming session with someone in the know.

I did do this with my therapist and she said shoot for psychiatric Residential Treatment Center (RTC)- they can spend a great deal of time doing what is needed to cover difficult child's needs and keep him safe and get him stable, plus it does give difficult child a consequence for the violence toward me, without jeopardizing his future like state juvy would. And, it would give me time to get back on my feet, get at least some of the house repaired and give us a much needed break from each other so we could break any negative cycles and still work on family issues by me attending sessions with him while he's in there. Plus, difficult child would be getting at least a little education. She said we would be looking at 2-3 mos probably- and sw at psychiatric hospital said the same thing. Then, sw pretty much had to change their recommendation to in home first, then Residential Treatment Center (RTC) because she couldn't find funding to support Residential Treatment Center (RTC) and she spoke with difficult child's therapist.

I thought asking the super to attend a brainstorming session would let him know that I was sincerely trying and let him know more specifics about the various stresses/problems. But, I see your point, DDD. Maybe I should try to line up a meeting with a person from a place just for myself and call and invite the super if he would like to attend. Because, if I lay all this out and they (the service provider) says they recommend Residential Treatment Center (RTC) or they can'typical teen provide what I'm asking, I dono't want my "requests" to go thru various people back to super and anyone left thinking that my requests are just unreasonable. They may be unreasonable- but I think it's because there are more problems here than one provider can cover. You know, I don't have to have respite, it would be nice, but I can live without it. I do have to worry about this large check I have to go turn into today to cover another month of medication insurance.

 

[mom_to_3]

I don't know the answer to all of your questions klmno. But I'm thinking this lack of consistent info is why the po's supervisor "heard" you may be difficult to work with. Truthfully, it would be difficult for me too. Be pro active and use the services they offer. I feel your fear is holding back valuable services for you and your son.

I personally wonder what would happen if you were just open and honest about all with everyone? Take pictures, give tours of your home, tell all. Even if that ended up with your difficult child back in front of the judge, that would give you the opportunity to come completely clean with the judge right? I believe that I've read or gotten the feeling that you do have some confidence in the judge right?

I know you love your son and are trying to do what's right for him. Sometimes, what's right is not always the easiest thing to do and.............. it hurts our mother's hearts. You don't have much longer with your son as a minor. You've got to get this in order, so that he can take responsibility for his actions (mental health wise and other wise) before he really pays the "adult" price.

My difficult child was in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC). In fact we "let her go" to the state but retained parental rights. It did take that particular burden off of us of having to deal with her day in and day out problems, but there were more things to deal with that were unpleasant. Do I feel that she got quality care? Do I think it helped her? No. Was she exposed to more dangerous and ill coping behavior? YES. And that is what you should know. Going through a state funded Residential Treatment Center (RTC) or really any Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for that matter, I don't think, is going to get you what you want.

I'm going to be very frank with you now. Your difficult child is not going to "heal" just because he is in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC). Your difficult child is not going to WANT to change or manage his mental health care nor his behavioral/violence issue's because there is no motivation for him. For now, those ill adapted behaviors are working for him, right? That is why there would be in home services made available. Really, if one looked at this in the right light, this could be a real blessing to you! You would have support with your son behaviorally, and extra, unbiased eyes observing his mental health issue's to give the psychiatrist or "the powers that be" reliable information.

I also wonder, if things go south like you fear after "exposing" everything, if you contact the media, your state representative, nami and make a loud and huge stink over it, what effect that would have on anything? In regards to our difficult child's situation, our state representative did intervene on our behalf. Could you get a CASA worker a court appointed attorney, or a guardian ad litem?

Also, there is not a one of us here that is a perfect parent. And you know what? That really is OKAY! If you have made or are making mistakes, it certainly doesn't mean that you love your son less or that you are a bad parent or that you caused all of his problems. Get that out of your head right away! A good, loving parent is one that IS open to learning new methods and idea's. I thought I knew some things while I was raising my children and like you, I really knew it all about my difficult child and what she was capable of, etc. and thought I knew just what she needed to get her life in order. PHFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT! 20/20 hindsight is a marvelous teacher! I do know one thing for sure though......................... do not EVER make excuses for your son's violence. That is NEVER acceptable and he should be held accountable for it.

I just looked at your post and you have added more to it. You mentioned having your son in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for 2 or 3 months. Do you really think that in that amount of time, you can work the hours you need to, attend therapy with your son at the Residential Treatment Center (RTC), and get all of your home repairs done and would you be able to learn new behavioral techniques in that amount of time? That's quite a lot to do! I don't remember exactly the time period you mentioned, but didn't you say your son was manic for certain months of the year? Would he still be manic during that time period if medication stabilization was going to happen?

I really think that the in home service would really serve you both much better for the reasons listed above and to help you learn new skills to deal with your son's problems. We all could use a helping hand, couldn't we?

I do hope you take this in the light that it was given.

And just so you don't think I'm too haughty............................. For the last 8 months our 5 yr. old grandson (difficult child, by the way) has been living with us. He is his mother's son, if you know what I mean. Our little cherub has flat out taught me that I absolutely don't know a darn thing about raising a difficult child! Every time I think I know something, the little bugger changes the rules to the game. He has really given us a ruuuuuuuuuuuuuun for our money. OMG! : )

 

[CrazyinVA]

The only thing I want to add here is this.. which I know i've said before but I think it bears repearting..

**any service they give you is more than you have now**

I learned to hold onto thoughts like that during my struggles for help for Youngest. It was the only way I could survive it. It's easy to jump to the "it won't work/it can't work" reaction.. but the fact is, it's not working now. I always figure it cannot possibly hurt to try something else, even if it's not exactly what I hoped it would be.

I think what some of us here are trying to tell you, as gently as we can, is that you have to face the fact you will not get exactly what you want for your difficult child. The more you resist something because it doesn't fit into this "best possible plan" you have in your mind, the more you are going to find resistance from the people that can give you services.