Kicked out difficult child

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by HereWeGoAgain, May 28, 2008.

  1. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Grandpa

    Hi, some of you will remember me from last year. I kind of petered out on the posting but thought I'd stop in again now about our difficult child. Sort of looking for validation that my wife and I are doing the right thing.

    J had been sober since Feb. ‘07. She’s been living with us since last June. She had a job, made AA meetings almost every day, and generally was doing well. She paid all her fines and got her driver's license back, but we would not let her drive our car. We drove her everywhere.

    Over the winter things stagnated. No further progress towards independence was made. Meanwhile the stress level at home was rising as her living habits and transportation demands wore on her mom and me.

    April and May saw a regression. She dumped her AA sponsor and cycled through several questionable ones. She got involved with some guys at the fellowship, prompting gossip and jealousies. She switched jobs after 8 months washing dogs for a pet groomer, at which she had done well and become close friends with the owner. There were some times that her entitlement attitude (as in we owed it to her to give her a place to live and rides and such because she was staying sober) reappeared.

    This was all very gradual and spotty. There would be renewed bursts of activity and motivation, fewer and shorter as time went on. Even though the signs were obvious, the coming relapse crept up on us.

    A little over two weeks ago it happened. She had plans to attend an AA event in a nearby town. Instead, she called her supplier/boyfriend of three years back and spent the night with him, smoking crack and drinking. After she passed out he took what remained of her money and the next morning he dumped her at a c-store in one of the badder parts of town. She got her most recent AA boyfriend to pick her up and let her recuperate at his parent's place. I got her from there. I told her, "I am not going to give you an ultimatum that if this happens x number of times again, you’re out. All I am going to say is this: you need to understand that we will not go through another downward spiral with you, so I hope that is not what is happening.”

    She was remorseful and apologized and promised to do better, and she did, for a week.

    We had a long planned vacation trip scheduled over Memorial Day weekend. J was to stay home to work. Also, she had arranged to babysit for her friend Erica. J was supposed to stay at Erica's from Thursday to today (Wednesday) and use Erica's truck to take Erica’s 7 yo daughter where she needed to go.

    While we and Erica were out of town, J took the little girl with her to another friend’s house, where a party was going on. She thought she would sit for a few minutes and have just one or two beers. Naturally, she ended up getting drunk. The friends took away her keys and made her and the little one spend the night (good for them, but they shouldn’t have given her alcohol in the first place). And J was using and drinking with some guy in our house Wednesday night before she went to Erica’s on Thursday.

    So we dropped the hammer on J. Told her she has to find someplace else to live. She will receive no money, no rides, and no room and board. She may visit her daughter (our granddaughter) at our house if she calls ahead and is sober. I told her that the only way she will ever be independent is if we make her be independent.
  2. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    I was looking for you awhile back, wondering how you were.

    I am so sorry that things took this turn. I think what you did was fair. You gave her a chance and she blew it. She will have to learn the hard way. That was the only way I learned!

    Hopefully she will hit her bottom sooner than later.

    I am so sorry for your hurting daddy heart. And for granddaughter. This must be hard on her, but better than watching her mom self destruct.
  3. 1905

    1905 Well-Known Member

    You did the right thing. I had to kick out my own son a few years ago. As painful as it is to do, you have to at this point. As you know, she'd just use you and your home as a crutch to continue this behavior. You did the only thing you can to help her.

    I wouldn't blame the friends for "giving" her alcohol though. -Alyssa
  4. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    That's heartbreaking for everyone. I'm so sorry...
  5. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    I don't think you had a choice. It sounds like your daughter got too comfortable. Being on her own will take that comfort level away. Of course, she will blame you and do everything wrong, at least at first. Hopefully, she will hit bottom and ask for help. Finding her a shelter, getting her into rehab, getting her back to AA would be reasonable acts at that time.

    I know how it hurts to tell your child to leave. It takes incredible strength and courage. To me, it rates with having a very ill child -- you worry and pray but there's little you can do. Many hugs. Stay strong and remember you are doing what you can to help her and, right now, any other action would just be enabling her.
  6. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    I'm so sorry difficult child turn a downward turn. She was doing so well.

    I don't see that you had another choice. Letting her stay sets a bad example for your grandaughter and it doesn't help her become independent.

    If Nichole doesn't start making better strides toward independence herself here soon I may be facing the same thing. It stinks.

    I hope this is just a momentary lapse and difficult child comes back to her senses quickly.

  7. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    So sorry things turned around like they did - it's heartbreaking. You have to do what's right for you and wife and granddaughter. It makes sense. Sending hugs~
  8. Star*

    Star* call 911

    We did put out an APB for you a couple of times - glad to see you back but sorry about the situation.

    As someone (her Father) with 21 years sobriety - I think you would probably know what would work more than most. I actually think you bent over backwards to help and what parent wouldn't? When you snapped? You had a choice to make and I think you made a very good one. Hard for sure, and heartbreaking to say the least - but maybe this will save her.

    Hope you and wife are doing well - and I think you should go get some Wheaties to keep up with your gdaughter. YER GONNA NEED IT. lol

  9. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    Glad to see you back, but certainly not under these circumstances:dissapointed:

    So sorry about your daughter, but you did the right thing. None the less, I am sure your heart is aching.

    We are here for you.
  10. trinityroyal

    trinityroyal Well-Known Member

    HWGA, good to see you again.
    Sorry that it had to be under such painful circumstances.

    You did the right thing.
    Hope your difficult child is able to turn her life around.

  11. mom_to_3

    mom_to_3 Active Member

    How heartbreaking. You did do the right thing though. I just had to go back and look at your difficult child's age. Oh my, 27! I hope she pulls it together soon for everyone. This must be so very draining.
  12. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Grandpa

    Thanks everybody for the responses. It's nice to get the support and encouragement.

    It is very hard on easy child 1. Know what broke my heart? On vacation, we had some calls from concerned people at home about what was going on with J. easy child 1 overheard our end of some of these and formed a pretty good notion of what was going on. We arranged for wife and easy child 1 to stay there with family while I drove back to deal with the actual eviction. So I was telling easy child 1 she got to stay and play with her cousins a few more days and ride back on an airplane and I would see her again in a few days. This was before wife sat down with her to break the news that her mom would be moving out again. But, as I said, she was very aware that something was up. She asked me, "Will mommy be there when you get there?" "I think so," I replied. "Good, you can make her stop partying!" So I explained that I could not make mommy stop partying, only mommy could do that. I tear up every time I think about how she wanted me to make it all right and I couldn't.

    Here's how the eviction went down: I got back Tuesday night. There was a note on the counter saying she was at Erica's and she'd be back tomorrow [Wednesday] "if you'll let me come back home" -- so she already had guessed that eviction was a live possibility. I was unable to reach her until late Wednesday night. I delivered the news, which she took without throwing a tantrum. We arranged for her to come over to the house and collect her things Thursday evening after my work. She was supposed to get there at 7. At 8 I called Erica's and found out she was "really tired" and it would "be easiest for everybody if I just come over Saturday." "Easiest for you, not easiest for 'everybody'," I said. "Huh?" "Never mind. Saturday won't work. If you can't get it tonight, I'll put your stuff in the garage, and you can get it tomorrow [Friday], or if not, we'll have to arrange something for next week when easy child 1 is not around." I spent Thursday night until 3 a.m. Friday packing her clothes, cosmetics and stuff up and hauling it out to the garage and cleaning the house. Had to miss work Friday to finish up. I left for the airport Friday afternoon at 5. J got there in Erica's truck while I was out, collected her things, and threw herself a tantrum (the one I didn't get on the phone on Wednesday, I guess). She kicked over my bike and threw her things she didn't want to take here and there around the garage, dropped her house keys in the middle of the living room floor and left a hateful note for her mother in the kitchen (she was not supposed to go inside the house at all). I had told her that if she didn't get there before I left on Friday, her LINK card (food stamps) and mail would be in the mailbox, where her set of house keys was supposed to be left. She spaced that out and accused us in the note of stealing the card. If she hadn't spitefully dropped the keys on the floor, she'd have found her card. Ironic, huh?
  13. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    I'm sorry it had to happen in such an ugly way. Your poor grandchild. It is hard to be so young and understand so much. Hopefully, she will now have a chance to truly be a little girl without having to worry what her mommy is going to do. I know for my daughter, it made a huge difference when her biomom was truly out of the picture -- she didn't feel she had to be responsible for this woman who was supposed to be protecting her.
  14. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Grandpa

    Well J wore out her welcome at Erica's pretty fast. Erica called and told wife that she was kicking J out.

    Erica told wife how J had gone ballistic when she came for her things. She raged that I had eradicated every trace of her from the house, I always hated her and now I was getting my fondest wish, etc. Erica herself thought that I was being pretty harsh (don't you all find this a common reaction to forcing a child out?).

    I didn't expect anything different, but I felt I had to be very thorough in packing her stuff up to get the point across that she doesn't live here any more -- if I left half of it around it would be as though we expected she would be moving in again in the future. That was my motive, not cruelty.

    We had a long talk with our son (easy child 2) and daughter-in-law while we were on vacation. Stayed out on their porch til 3 a.m. after easy child 1 went to bed. We talked about quite a few things that we hadn't really gotten that deeply into before. easy child 2 and wife told us how they felt that J had dominated our lives for the past ten years. Countless times some happy event was overshadowed or someone's moment to shine (graduation, first job, promotion) was eclipsed by J's latest situation. It was physically exhausting to go through all that emotion (staying up so late didn't help either) (and now here I am typing at 2:10 a.m.). That night was when we formed the resolve that things had to change, and change permanently.
  15. So Tired

    So Tired Member

    It is hard because they so know how to push that guilt button. "You wouldn't kick me out if you really loved me" They seem to never make the connection with the consequence and their behavior.

    I understand what you mean about your other children and your grand-daughter. My easy child is 10 and her brother has managed to s_ck the joy out of many of her events. Moments that should have been all her's -dance recitals, birthdays, etc. spent either dealing with his crap or being exhausted from dealing with it. I am going to take your words and story to heart and do more to protect and cherish time with easy child and spend less of my emotional time and effort on difficult child. For instance, I used to feel guilty when we went out to dinner and didn't invite difficult child. Finally I told him that I don't invite him because he always finds a way to ruin our good time. (He needs to pick the restaurant, we need to hurry back 'cause his friends are waiting, blah blah blah ) I think he was a little shocked and hurt that I really didn't want him along and wasn't inviting him anymore. (He IS the center of the universe, after all!!) Thanks for making me feel less guilty in making choices that honor my easy child and our family.

    I hope your daughter will come to understand your choice in protecting and honoring your family.
  16. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    easy child 1 just breaks my heart. Bundle her up and give her a big hug from all of her cyber-aunties, because she really is loved, and you and your wife really are the best grandparents a kid could want.

    I'm glad that you and easy child 2 had such an open and frank conversation. I know it was exhausting, but that's to be expected. You are absolutely doing the right thing and moving in the right direction.

    Does Erica understand the meaning of the word "oxymoron"? She feels you were a bit harsh for moving J's stuff out after 27 years on and off of her garbage, but why exactly is it that Erica kicked J out after less than a week? Didn't she realize that J hadn't even begun to show her how truly vile she can be?
  17. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Grandpa

    Well, Erica relented after only one night and let J come back there. Erica tends to talk a tough game but give in easily. The incident did seem to shake J up though. She's been on (relatively) good behavior since. I think it's too soon, but wife is letting easy child 1 spend the night over there tonight. At least Erica can be relied on to not let J leave easy child 1 there and go out, or have anyone over, or drink or do drugs. easy child 1 will be allowed to stay up 'til all hours and watch inappropriate TV (Sex and the City, Family Guy) though.

    I wonder what y'all think of this: J is working for Erica. Erica has a "real estate investment partnership" that she runs out of her house. She paid a hefty fee to attend a "seminar" or "school" of some kind to learn this real-estate investing business. Now, apparently, she makes money not by buying and selling property but by recruiting more people to go attend these seminars. So it is a Ponzi scheme, by all appearances. J's job is to make calls to prospects to schedule appointments for Erica and her partner (of whom I know nothing at all) to give them the hard sell on signing up for the seminar, I gather. Supposedly they split $1000 for each attendee who they talk into signing up. J has yet to see any money and frankly I'd be surprised if she ever does. So I'm wondering how long before the shoe drops. But, it is out of my hands, I am staying completely detached. If she makes $10,000 a month (that is the figure that was mentioned to her) more power to her. Just out of curiosity, though, do any of you guys know anything about this sort of scheme?
  18. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    I'd be wondering how long until the scheme is busted for fraud or something. Doesn't sound like there is any real-estate involved.

    I'm glad you and easy child 2 were able to talk and easy child 2 was able to articulate just how much J's actions have effected him. That had to be very cathartic.
  19. trinityroyal

    trinityroyal Well-Known Member

    HWGA, that sounds like one of those pyramid sales schemes, or a Ponzi scheme as you suggested (pyramid and Ponzi might be the same thing with different labels)

    From what I understand, you start out at the bottom of the pyramid, doing most of the work for very little return. Everyone above you on the pyramid gets a cut of the overall revenue, and your share is whatever is left over.

    For example:
    Imagine it's a 5-level pyramid
    The price of one unit of your product is $100

    The dude at the top of the pyramid gets $50
    The next person down gets $25
    The next person gets $12.50
    The next person gets $7.50
    The person at the bottom gets $5.00 per unit sold.

    The only person doing the selling is the one at the bottom. That person gets the smallest cut and does the most work.

    The only way to make money is to recruit other people to work for you. Then you get a cut of whatever they sell. If you are the 2nd layer from the bottom and you recruit 10 people to work for you, then you get 10x7.50 for each sale.

    The "earn thousands of dollars a month" quotes are usually based on the earnings of those at the pointy end of the pyramid. Some people can earn $10,000 or $20,000 per month, but only the ones in the top 2 layers.

    If I recall correctly, these types of companies are on the fringes of the law, if not downright illegal.
  20. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    HWGA~ It is nice to see you
    I am sorry you are having to make the tough decisions though. You are doing a good job being smart, for all involved.
    Yeah it sounds just like the word, SCHEME... usually the person at the bottom does a lot of work with very little outcome. My Father ran a couple of these in the 80's. He was nearer the top... I felt bad for the people at the bottom.
    husband and I have had people try to talk us into a couple of things like this... after just casual research, no way!
    I hope you get some rest, and keep posting to let the *%(# out so it doesn't build up.