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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 618943" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>My heart goes out to you, Strength. You are in such a tough place with your son. The good news is that you can end your suffering right this minute by giving him everything he wants. </p><p></p><p>The bad news? If you do that Strength, if you do whatever it takes to feel better yourself...you will have upped the ante for next time.</p><p></p><p>That is one of the secrets at the heart of the skill we call detachment. Once we know better, we continue "helping" because it hurts too much not to. Recovering Enabler tells us that, if we resent the help we are offering, that is our clue to know we are enabling to end our own discomfort in the face of our child's pain. In our hearts, we already know we are being manipulated. We already know the child is lying to us again. We already know our money and time and pain are going to be for nothing. But we hide that knowledge from ourselves, because we cannot stand the pain that comes for us when we do nothing to help our self destructing adult child.</p><p></p><p>What I think I have learned through my time here on the site is that I love and believe in both my kids so much that I can't see what is really happening with either one of them. Not without the help of the others, here on the site. I just can't face what is real. Somewhere in my brain, I protect myself from knowing more than I can stand. But, Strength? That is why I am still here on the site with "kids" who are approaching forty. Recovering will need to speak for herself, but her child too is in that same age bracket. Recovering is very like me, I think. Always willing to help, always, always believing the best of others, always so sure one more time, one more thing, one more try, will bring success.</p><p></p><p>I could be wrong Strength...but I think you are very like us, too.</p><p></p><p>I hear it in the way you love your son, believe in him and don't believe in him at the same time. I hear it in the strong belief that he will change, that it is only a matter of time....</p><p></p><p>Nothing. He gets nothing, Strength. Not only does he get nothing, but I want you to begin seeing this from your perspective, not his.</p><p></p><p>This boy is a master manipulator. He is playing you so surely, so subtly, Strength.</p><p></p><p>I am so sorry this is happening to you or to your son. There should not be this kind of unbelievable pain in the world. But there is, Strength. </p><p></p><p>And it has fallen on you.</p><p></p><p>And on me.</p><p></p><p>And we have to see so clearly now, Strength. If you can do it, you need to begin thinking of the man your son <u>should</u> be. Begin thinking of the man your son grew into, in your dreams for him when he was little. Begin feeling the anger you have every right to feel for what this grown man has done to that little boy you birthed and nurtured and are now seeing destroyed.</p><p></p><p>That is the only kind of thinking that helps me, Strength.</p><p></p><p>I am so sorry.</p><p></p><p>You asked about time. Right now. Text him, email him, whatever you need to do. Tell him you are done, that the last incident was the change time. Tell him things are different, now. YOU are different, now. Tell him to stop whining, and to stand up and deal with what he has created like a man. (You don't have to tell him about us? But we will all be right there with you, and we will all be right here helping you deal with the fallout, afterward. Your son will up the ante until he gets what he wants from you. Know this going in. Know that we are only going to support you in whatever decision you make. If you want to help him? We will cheer you on there, too. We are not here to judge. We are here because every one of us has been right where you are now and we want to help, as we have been helped.)</p><p></p><p>Tell him you love him too much to watch him self destruct, and that you certainly are not going to support him while he does it.</p><p></p><p>Finally Strength, believe me when I tell you we do not find you pathetic. You are living through something too awful to think about ~ that's why you aren't thinking about it clearly. You are in something Recovering calls the FOG. It happens when no decision is the right one. It happens when we love our children so much that we cannot, literally cannot, believe what is happening to them right in front of our horrified eyes.</p><p></p><p>But it is happening, Strength. It happened to me, too. Something so awful there are no words to describe it happened to every parent here. Something we were not sure we would live through happened, and continues to happen to us, Strength. I am so sorry. I know how you feel, how frantic, how willing to sacrifice anything to help him, to save him, to change all this back.</p><p></p><p>I am so sorry, Strength.</p><p></p><p>Posting will help, so much. Please know none of us are capable of judging anything you feel or choose or try. We have been there, too. For the most part Strength, we still are. For some of us, that means we are not seeing our self destructing children, at all. </p><p></p><p>We bring our pain here.</p><p></p><p>We share our stories, we hold steady and strong for one another. There is too much pain for us to do anything less, Strength.</p><p></p><p>I am so glad you found us. </p><p></p><p>This site has made all the difference, for me.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 618943, member: 17461"] My heart goes out to you, Strength. You are in such a tough place with your son. The good news is that you can end your suffering right this minute by giving him everything he wants. The bad news? If you do that Strength, if you do whatever it takes to feel better yourself...you will have upped the ante for next time. That is one of the secrets at the heart of the skill we call detachment. Once we know better, we continue "helping" because it hurts too much not to. Recovering Enabler tells us that, if we resent the help we are offering, that is our clue to know we are enabling to end our own discomfort in the face of our child's pain. In our hearts, we already know we are being manipulated. We already know the child is lying to us again. We already know our money and time and pain are going to be for nothing. But we hide that knowledge from ourselves, because we cannot stand the pain that comes for us when we do nothing to help our self destructing adult child. What I think I have learned through my time here on the site is that I love and believe in both my kids so much that I can't see what is really happening with either one of them. Not without the help of the others, here on the site. I just can't face what is real. Somewhere in my brain, I protect myself from knowing more than I can stand. But, Strength? That is why I am still here on the site with "kids" who are approaching forty. Recovering will need to speak for herself, but her child too is in that same age bracket. Recovering is very like me, I think. Always willing to help, always, always believing the best of others, always so sure one more time, one more thing, one more try, will bring success. I could be wrong Strength...but I think you are very like us, too. I hear it in the way you love your son, believe in him and don't believe in him at the same time. I hear it in the strong belief that he will change, that it is only a matter of time.... Nothing. He gets nothing, Strength. Not only does he get nothing, but I want you to begin seeing this from your perspective, not his. This boy is a master manipulator. He is playing you so surely, so subtly, Strength. I am so sorry this is happening to you or to your son. There should not be this kind of unbelievable pain in the world. But there is, Strength. And it has fallen on you. And on me. And we have to see so clearly now, Strength. If you can do it, you need to begin thinking of the man your son [U]should[/U] be. Begin thinking of the man your son grew into, in your dreams for him when he was little. Begin feeling the anger you have every right to feel for what this grown man has done to that little boy you birthed and nurtured and are now seeing destroyed. That is the only kind of thinking that helps me, Strength. I am so sorry. You asked about time. Right now. Text him, email him, whatever you need to do. Tell him you are done, that the last incident was the change time. Tell him things are different, now. YOU are different, now. Tell him to stop whining, and to stand up and deal with what he has created like a man. (You don't have to tell him about us? But we will all be right there with you, and we will all be right here helping you deal with the fallout, afterward. Your son will up the ante until he gets what he wants from you. Know this going in. Know that we are only going to support you in whatever decision you make. If you want to help him? We will cheer you on there, too. We are not here to judge. We are here because every one of us has been right where you are now and we want to help, as we have been helped.) Tell him you love him too much to watch him self destruct, and that you certainly are not going to support him while he does it. Finally Strength, believe me when I tell you we do not find you pathetic. You are living through something too awful to think about ~ that's why you aren't thinking about it clearly. You are in something Recovering calls the FOG. It happens when no decision is the right one. It happens when we love our children so much that we cannot, literally cannot, believe what is happening to them right in front of our horrified eyes. But it is happening, Strength. It happened to me, too. Something so awful there are no words to describe it happened to every parent here. Something we were not sure we would live through happened, and continues to happen to us, Strength. I am so sorry. I know how you feel, how frantic, how willing to sacrifice anything to help him, to save him, to change all this back. I am so sorry, Strength. Posting will help, so much. Please know none of us are capable of judging anything you feel or choose or try. We have been there, too. For the most part Strength, we still are. For some of us, that means we are not seeing our self destructing children, at all. We bring our pain here. We share our stories, we hold steady and strong for one another. There is too much pain for us to do anything less, Strength. I am so glad you found us. This site has made all the difference, for me. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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