Legal battles, un gratefulness, bone tired, VENT with cherry on top

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Nomad, Apr 13, 2015.

  1. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    My nerves are a bit rattled. Our Difficult Child might be a tiny bit different than others here, but there is much similarity too. She is adopted, in her mid twenties and has the diagnosis of bipolar. When she was in elem. school she suffered from a brain aneurysm, which required brain surgery. She has attention deficits, is gullible, a little peculiar, can be likable, often ungrateful (something I have often noticed about difficult child's in general) , but almost always has a kind heart. She has done much better in terms of speaking to us with respect in recent years, but there is that fairly large and consistent ungrateful part of it.

    A few years ago, someone talked her into doing something illegal. It was insane. She managed to get out of prosecution, I think the prosecutor, knowing she was duped, felt sorry for her. We just had to pay some relatively big money to seal those charges. Did she thank us for this...NO!

    A few weeks ago, she got into an argument with some very very very very Difficult Child and this girl physically abused our daughter right in public!!! Can't go into details, but it was awful. It took me awhile just to process it. She has hurt our daughter before. We are trying to get an extended restraining order, but it's been difficult. Difficult Child doesn't fully understand (I guess) the technicalities. Criminal charges have been discussed.

    Our daughter is doing fairly well with it all, but the other side is fighting the charges like crazy (I guess when you have a guilty client, you get super aggressive to try to be intimidating).

    I guess I should feel fortunate that at least our Difficult Child doesn't beat the crxp our of people, but I'm saddened that she befriends such horrible people and that she doesn't always appreciate what good parents she has.

    My parents NEVER in a million years would have stuck by me during all of this craziness.

    Why does she associate with horrible people? And why is she not more grateful to mom and dad? Does it ever get better? Can it get better? Well, I guess these two things are typical difficult child "things." It is just so very sad. And I have days that I'm bone tired. Thank you for letting me vent.
  2. Childofmine

    Childofmine trying to do this thing one day at a time Staff Member

    Nomad, I am sorry. Can you share any other details about her? Is she fully capable?

    I think our gigs do associate with "horrible people." And then, when you get way, way down, the way back up is not....well...shall we say...even filled with the best people, places and things?

    difficult child is doing better as I have reported to you all. He is working full-time plus, and paying his bills---for the most part. I helped him last week with $50 to a physician plus $50 for the prescription cream that he needed. But the regular bills, he is paying.

    The apartment complex where he is renting is 10 steps beyond awful. The people that run it seem to be exactly the same way. A pipe burst and now there is mold growing everywhere. Been that way for more than 5 weeks. He keeps cleaning and bleaching etc., but the mold keeps growing back. He has called and called and left voice mails and even sent a certified letter return receipt requested. No response at all except notices tacked on the door when he is not there saying he owes more and more money. His dad advised him to stop paying the rent---which he did---and he did set that money aside. Tomorrow he goes to court about it all. His dad is going with him. Thankfully I neither was asked to go nor offered to go.

    My point is, I think when they get way down, they stay down for a long long time with those who aren't the best kind of people.

    It's even harder to make your way back because of this fact---this I am seeing in his life, every day.

    If your daughter, Nomad, can't be truly responsible for herself, she is a target for other people.

    Please give us more information if you can and want to, so we will have a better perspective on her.

    Thank you. Warm hugs to you.
  3. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    I'm not a doctor, but anybody I know who has had a brain aneurysm has some residual damage, either in cognition or in communication. (we have had several family friends go through this)

    Its bad enough to be wired differently. Add brain trauma to the list, and its... well, its NOT FAIR. Not to you or to her.

    And yes, it probably does make her more vulnerable to these kinds of people.

    Wish I had more tangible suggestions.
  4. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    Thank you very I have that horrible sinking feeling at the moment. I hate hate hate to feel hopeless, but that is exactly what I feel. She is bipolar all the way, but one doctor thought mild aspergers too. I'm very unsure of that, but her social skills suxxxxk. When she had the brain aneurysm, as well, I spent at least a year in"darkness." I just couldn't understand how my / our Higher Being could bring that to her as she was already so mentally sick and had the baggage of adoption. The situation went from bad to hideous. And yes, I would agree that after the brain aneurysm, things just worsened in all areas.

    I hesitate to talk details about what's going on as there is a hearing coming up and likely other legal things.

    But, difficult child is clearly the victim in both cases I have mentioned. I ASSURE you I'm NOT a mom that closes her eyes to things.

    But just looking at the recent event...OMG! This so called friend and her argued in public, there was a misunderstanding, and then this big time Difficult Child called my daughter a very filthy word (think of the dirtiest word you can imagine), then physically attacked her BIG TIME to the point that it very well might be construed as attempted murder. Someone intervened and the police were called. One detective made it very clear that as far as he/she could tell, our difficult child was innocent and charges should be filed....

    I found out it wasn't too long before this that the very big time Difficult Child, had mildly assaulted my daughter not too long ago over a different disagreement.

    So, she definitely gives the wrong people too many chances.

    And, although she is better, she can be sarastic with us. Believe me, I'm grateful this has improved.

    She gets nervous and says the weirdest things...but I think this is part of her illnesses.

    And yes, bullies prey on her repeatedly.

    But, I'll never understand why she isn't more grateful. Her IQ is fairly good and it is rare that she seems to pick up on all that we do for her and how much heartache all this causes us. But, then again, I suppose if she fully acknowledged it all, maybe it would be too much for her to take in.

    I wish I could provide more details.

    I'm very sad this moment.
  5. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    If there is some suspicion of Asperger's... the "ingratitude" would be more understandable. Not ALL Aspies are that way, but some don't understand the on-going nature of gratitude. You do something, they say thanks, and they move on. Its a foreign concept. I'm not officially on the spectrum (suspected), but it took me YEARS to understand this on-going "payback" for something in the past - and that it was in my own best interests to "play along" with something that made no sense to me. (having DONE it for some time now, there are other things that come back because of it... it does have value that I didn't see when I was young)
  6. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    Nomad, the person who assaulted your daughter is a vicious, violent bully. There is no excuse for what she did ~ especially if she is preying on those who are vulnerable to begin with.

    Bullies choose their victims carefully from the first taunt. A bully will never confront someone who will fight back. Whatever you know about what has happened or how it has been justified, there is more. It began with the bully. Like every predator, she targeted your child. She has probably done it before. She knows how to choose and aggravate her prey, and she knows what to say to cover her tracks.

    The problem is not that your child is giving the wrong kinds of people access. The problem is the bully.

    Nonetheless, you will have to detach from the emotions.

    I would be half-crazy with grief and anger.

    I remember how unreal all of it was when our daughter was beat. It was like I could not pull myself together. I was so focused on taking vengeance.

    It was horrible.

    In my heart I wanted that man dead.

    The other grandmother blamed my daughter, and drugs.

    But he is the one who did what he did. And he did it over time.

    It took me a very long time to let go of that sickening rage I felt. I could still feel it, if I wanted to spend any time there.


    I feel terrible for you.

    You will have to be very strong, to make it through this.

  7. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    Insane...I think almost all Difficult Child have the tendency to be ungrateful, but I see your point about Aspies perhaps having this tendency. Giving it more thought...

    Cedar...I recall what happened to your daughter. Horrid. Yes, this was/is a bully we are dealing with. And her lawyer is trying to get her off on technicalities and our daughter being bipolar and having had a brain aneurysm, and recently been beaten, and suffers from anxiety, you can imagine how it is almost easy for her to get confused and how an attorney with a guilty client can almost be a bully him or herself taking advantage.

    On top of it all, Difficult Child is acting weird. I called her a little while ago and she got ticked at me for waking her up (middle of afternoon) and yelled at me. She has little to NO true friends, we are trying to help her, have spent a lot of money on her...etc.

    So, I am sad about her being a victim of bullies, I'm sad about her not learning from the experience, and I'm sad about her treating the people who are good to her shabbily. Does she not understand anything?

    And I'm particularly sad because I know in my heart that there is a chance that there could come a time that I might walk away.
  8. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    Nomad, I don't have much to offer just that I'm so sorry you are going through this. I'm so sorry your daughter was bullied and hurt.

    Since she has had a brain injury I would imagine that has impaired her judgment and that may contribute to her making poor choices when it comes to who she befriends.

    Sending you hugs!!
  9. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Nomad, you have already read my circumstances so you know how much of a parallel there is in our situations: Adoption, ADHD, mid-twenties, brain injury, bipolar. What I did not add is my son is kind- hearted, gullible and vulnerable (he used to be so sweet and loving to me), with very poor judgment. He too has been less hostile, lately. He too seems to gravitate towards people and places where he can be victimized. At the same time he takes advantage of us, tries to dominate us to the point of almost victimizing us. We are the safe haven....but he takes advantage--of us. He is NOT grateful. He takes for granted. He only faults and blames us if he does not get all he wants. Or acts the martyr....

    It is so hard for me when he is vulnerable, but as you know I have been permitting myself to be eaten alive, almost volunteering.

    In my case, the why's only sap energy. Where I fall prey is with the "will it get better" (and implicitly I am thinking, will my son get better?) What I am learning from my fellow mothers is, that the important question, is how can I heal? It will get better by our being and staying strong.

    My sense of your daughter is that she is a kind and loving soul who knows right from wrong. I have faith that in her core she knows how to live, because your love and care taught her this. As I write this I realize that I must find this faith in my son, and let him learn to act from his core which too is loving and kind. Does this make sense?

    We cannot protect them from life. My heart breaks for our children. I feel envy of (and anger towards) young people whose lives are easy. I cannot help myself. Yet I know that there are no easy answers for anybody. We must all find our way.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2015
  10. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Payla, I am a new member but I too send hugs.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2015
  11. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    Copa, thank you for your reply. Extra nice since you are new and going through so much right now. I can say we made some progress with our daughter over the years since she rarely is rude to us or sarcastic anymore. I took away her phone a few times for this type of thing and it greatly helped ....greatly reduced that negative behavior. We also greatly reduced our participation in her life, but this situation seemed different since she was assaulted and was a victim of crime. However, I am conflicted if I should have participated in even this situation. She is over 21. I think she knows right from wrong. Not always sure she is capable of fully living on her own since she doesn't have any or good cause and effect reasoning. Can that be learned???? I'm unsure as she often makes the same mistakes repeatedly with very negative consequences.
    I feel much better today and am pushing myself to detach. It's the only way.
  12. SuZir

    SuZir Well-Known Member

    Gratefulness between people is, if we go to the bottom of it and look it from evolution psychologist way, a social and mind game. "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours." And not in the concrete level but rather high abstract level and requires rather complex social skills and maturity. Just think how long it takes for even most typical and sensitive child to learn it. I mean, no one in their right mind would expect a first grader to have much gratitude over something that happened a little longer ago. It is well possible that your kid does not have social skills and maturity to really grasp the concept of gratitude in typical adult level. And it is very possible she may never reach that maturity and skill level. It could maybe help you, if you would try to learn not to expect gratitude. To help her in the ways you are comfortable and that will not cause you feel resentment even if she is not able to express or even grasp gratefulness.

    Her social skills may also limit her choice of friends. Bullies see someone whom they can bully in her and that is why they are attracted. She may not have lots of qualities that would make her an attractive friend candidate to nicer people. I mean, even though she has a good heart, it may be, that people find her tedious company. They may think she is nice, but that she is too needy or not socially appropriate enough to be fun company. And lets face it, outside of family, who actually wants to spent time with people, who seem to consume your energy instead of giving you energy? People with low social skills may be perfectly nice, but often they are not fun to be with. Most people, when they are looking for chosen relationships, go for people who they find fun to be with.

    It may be, that she doesn't have much choice when it comes to friends. And for many, being alone is so bad, that they would rather be bullied.

    My kid has had this same problem with friends a lot. He is very smart, can have very unconventional and unique ideas and thoughts and deep down he is not a shi**y person, but his social skills, or lack of them, make him edgy and strenuous person to be with. He also attracts bullies. When he was younger, situation really was so, that outside of family he didn't have any real friends. But he did hang out with other kids who both bullied him and used him. But despite being hurt badly he kept going back and trying to make them like him. Absolutely heartbreaking.

    Now that he is older and interacts with wider group of people than just peers of his age, and after he has learnt some more social skills, it has became evident that there is also something in him, that makes bit older people wanting to protect him and also some very wholesome and strong, bit older than him guys, to overlook his strenuousness and friend him for the more enjoyable sides of him. His and his sport psychologist's hard work with social skills has also paid off and he is so much easier company now, that many of his peers are willing to spend time with him too. But still his available pool of friends is much smaller than for example our younger son's.
  13. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    SuZir...what you said makes good sense. Ironically, our p. c. son is very appreciative and has been this way since probably second grade.

    But Difficult Child is the exact opposite and yes, she is taxing. Older people tend to treat her almost like she is autistic or a very young child. I observed this at the attorney's office.

    And yes, if I could learn to adjust my attitude a bit, it would be easier on me. Not to,expect something from her, she is unable to give.

    What diagnosis does your son have ?

    Thank you.
  14. SuZir

    SuZir Well-Known Member

    My son never made it to the diagnosis as a child. He was thoroughly evaluated couple times and was close to asperger, but lacked some core traits (like any language issues, any issues with motor functions or not having a good theory of mind) and was over all too high functioning. He did have an unofficial (and very true) diagnosis of sensory processing disorder (SPD), but that wasn't official diagnosis in ICD at the time at least. He was also diagnosed school phobic mainly to give everyone a way out from his truancy issues.

    He has later acquired PTSD, depression and possible separate dissociation disorder and also borderline traits has been discussed. He also suffered conversion disorder recently but that is okay now.

    But the social issues he has always had and I think they are partly because of those slight asperger traits and sensory processing disorder (SPD) he has and partly because his social life started to go wrong so young. You can't really learn social skills very well, when you are constantly bullied from kindergarten on.
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  15. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Good Point!!! Thanks.
  16. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I worry, too, Nomad, about my son's capacity to learn from mistakes, because he makes the same ones over and over again. He too was assaulted, hit over the head, to steal the $2500 in cash he was carrying in his pocket (part of my Mother's estate) that he was carrying in his pocket (he was in a homeless shelter--can you believe how dumb.) He gets SSI and persists on either "losing" his debit card every mid month or earlier or running out of money.

    I see the problem as more arrogance than incapacity. He seems to act as if his intention (ie what he says...will carry the day...just because he wants it too....He does that with me, as well, believing, in fact insisting that his version of events is TRUE even if he has changed his version 5 times. He is an Emperor With No Clothes, who seems to need to believe that personal power comes from his mandates.

    Now as I write this I do not like my words, because it points to a so called "character disorder" in my son--which is very intractable. So, that, too, is incapacity. This whole thing is a minefield. I keep seeking some safe place (as I have not yet created it in me) and there is none. Thank you.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2015
  17. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    My husband, Difficult Child 's father, is her "designated payee" for her SSI. I'm not sure exactly, but I think the checks come in both names. They are automatically deposited into an account in both of their names. Somehow, she has limited access, or at least she thinks she does. Her checks are often needed 100% for rent...if she is lucky a teeny tiny bit remains. Rents are expensive here. Each month, my husband pays her rent for her with this account. This is number one priority. The little that is left over (IF any is left over at all) she can use for necessities. Basically, my husband helps her since she is unable to make sound financial decisions. I do not think she would be able to maintain a roof over her head if she made the decisions on her own. I'm very proud of her that she fully accepts this arrangement as she would very likely be homeless otherwise.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2015
  18. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Dear Nomad
    I would feel proud too if my son accepted the necessity of having his own place to live. We did go to social security a few months ago and he asked the rep if I could be his payee, and the rep was very resistant to his giving up his freedom to manage his own financial affairs. He was clear to her that he had been unable to manage his money; and for that I am proud. He still considers the SSI money to be sort of an allowance, to buy marijuana and special treats, and to look for free housing. I am considering calling social security and recommending he get a payee, who is not me.
  19. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    What? Maybe the rep thought you forced your son to say that???? I would go to another office and inquire again. It should probably be you ... Or it needs to be someone VERY trustworthy to be the designated payee. Especially based on what you said, it's very important. Geez.
  20. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Nomad, I just read your post. I am so sorry this is happening with your daughter, you're right it is very sad. She is prey to bullies and she may not be able to learn a different way because of her various issues.

    There aren't any easy answers for us...... to love our children, stay connected to them in the ways that we can and still have our own healthy and happy lives is a razor's edge to walk seem to do pretty well in it on a regular basis........and now this new development has caused you pain. That's essentially the process I've gone through with my daughter too......I get used to and relatively good at that level of detaching and accepting and then a new issue develops and I have to learn how to detach and accept on this new frontier. For many of us, this is going to be the way it is. Getting to that notion has helped me, to realize that this is the way it is. To accept that reality was tough, but accepting reality is what ultimately creates peace of mind and that's where I always want to land.

    Sending warm wishes and hugs........I know how hard it can be.