LMS...how 'bout a really quick update?

[lovemysons]

Hi DDD,
Only have a minute but wanted to let you know...Yes, we have a Closing Date of January 17th and move out by the 19th. The buyers have 85K they're putting down on the house...they're in good financial shape.

LMS

 

[DDD]

Great news! Hmmmm...wish you or I had 85 laying around. DDD

 

[SuZir]

SuZir and TL,
Unfortunately AA or "Overcomers" are the requirements by the State of Texas. He must attend either AA or Overcomers twice a week...there is no other alternative.

That is a shame. I hope someone in the group points it out to him (and he does listen) that he can either use his time in the group to focus having a beef with Higher Power(s) or religion or to focus his recovery. Higher Power thing gives him an excuse not to focus to his problems but it is not a real reason. He can get something out of those groups even without concept of higher power. And the beef with Higher Power? Well as said, it is in someone else's timetable.

 

[DammitJanet]

Good news on the house.

I would also have a problem with the religious aspect of the AA or this Overcomers meeting considering what I remember of your long ago issues with that church. I had a bad dealing with a certain part (cant think of how to put that) of some Christian churches and it has turned me against going to organized churches for most of my adult life and in fact I loved to say lots of things for shock value over the years. Now that Im older I do believe in having a spiritual life but not with having to attend a church on a weekly basis.

Years ago when I tried OA I didnt like the fact that they wanted to do the whole Higher Power thing and I had a very hard time with that. One thing they did tell me is that my Higher Power could be anything even a tree.

I think I if I was having to be court ordered into some sort AA program, I would rather it be a program that didnt have any leaning towards religion. There have to be some sort of programs of that sort out there. Atheists have issues with alcohol too...lol. I would be dead sure they would not go to AA to be honest. It would simply be too uncomfortable. Do you think if you researched online about programs for such a program in your area ( and considering where you live I would think you could find something) and then talk to the PO about modifying the order because I would think just attending a group for sobriety support is the whole idea behind the court order, maybe they could do that. I dont know, just thinking. I think if you give your son one thing less to fight against it will help him.

 

[susiestar]

Religion is a highly personal thing. I feel lucky to have parents that insisted I get some education in religion but always told me that after grade six it would be my choice of when and if and where to go to church. That I was a rational, thinking person and entitled to my own beliefs.

Is it possible that your youngest is not so much rebelling against the church or religion or the idea of God, but instead rebelling agains his dad? Your husband has pretty black and white views on religion, or did at one time, and I can see how your Youngest might rebel against his dad by rebelling against religion. Just wondered if that might give you some perspective.

I do believe that faith is on God's schedule not ours, and I think that might be a useful thing to hold on to for you.

If he truly wants to think all day, maybe he should pick a field of study, work his way through college and become a professor?? That is about as close to that as I could think of for him. He has an active, agile and interesting mind, and would be great as a prof, with some maturity and seasoning, of course.

 

[lovemysons]

I so wish I could get young difficult child into an alternative group. He was a MAJOR pain in the A as I took him to a neighboring town to the church where the Overcomers group was this morning. He cussed at least half the way.

daughter in law and grandchildren spent the night last night. daughter in law shared with me this morning that young difficult child was blaming her last night for his time in prison. See, this is where I do have a problem that he does not accept some sort of Higher Power/Intelligent Designer etc. Where is there gratitude for the gifts in his life? Where does he see provision and blessing???? He doesn't. He still see's himself as a victim apparently...and a victim of what? Chaotic happenstance??? He has some very ill-thinking going on right now.

I told daughter in law this would be his ticket back to prison and it would be no fault of hers or mine...for all our efforts.
I told her that he needs to take responsibility for his own behavior/choices/actions...it is up to him.

I just wish he could see all that has been provided for him...all the many ways that we are all giving of our time and energy for him. We don't have to...it is a gift. And instead I don't know what he holds to be truth in his heart. Why do we owe him anything, ya know.

Duty, Provision, Love...where does he think these virtues might originate from???
And Faith...faith that there is a purpose in each day, meaning, and a story to be told by his life.
Faith that things will get better if he keeps his focus and mind in the right place.

He is very self-centered still. I am seeing it this morning. And it has me very concerned about the days ahead.
LMS

 

[DammitJanet]

LMS.... he doesnt have to believe in something right now. Lord at his age (how old is he now?) Yeah 23...ok, yeah I was a PITA myself...lol. I think at that point I was claiming to be Wiccan. Or a complete atheist or agnostic. I cant remember now. I have been so many things over the years. Wiccan may have come later...probably. At 23 I think I claimed I didnt believe at God at all. I didnt need no stinkin religion! Probably much like your difficult child.

I had been through a whole lot of stuff at that point and it really didnt feel like much was there for me. I had to rely on myself. Obviously over the years I have morphed through several phases. One of my favorite phrases is "there are no atheists in foxholes." Well there are no Atheist Mom's of those men/women in those foxholes either. I learned that too.

I think your son will find his place in time. As far as him being grateful...well there is something you can do about that one. Make him think. Take a piece of paper and write down every last thing you are doing for him. Put fair market value next to it. Then ask him if he can do any of those things for himself or hire someone to do them for him? If not, he better either cough up the money to pay you at which point you will put earplugs in and not listen to him whine or be nice to you and you will be willing to continue to help him because you love him. Or you would happily call his PO and report that he simply cannot live in the free world. The choice is his.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Yes, I agree with Suz that the rejecting of the higher power thing as an obstacle to sobriety might be an excuse just to not get clean. Then they can say it wasn't their problem, it's the problem with the program.

 

[lovemysons]

Janet,
Had a conversation with young difficult child last night and he shared with me that he is "still searching".
The "gratitude list" idea is a good one and I may go there with young difficult child at some point...he doesn't know that I know about him blaming his wife for ending up in prison.

Suz and CJ, I think you're right that he could blame the program instead of taking responsibility for his sobriety.
He did however have the opportunity Friday night to go buy alcohol. I was gone for the day and husband was sick at home after 8pm that night. Young difficult child got paid Friday for work...it was certainly a "test time" and from what I have seen he chose not to drink or drug so that's good.

Of course I think when you're an addict/alcoholic and truly want to use...ANY excuse will do. I just want him to stay away from that "poor me/pour me a drink" thinking.
LMS

 

[lovemysons]

Well...Our realtor just called me.
Buyers loan was going to be denied due to something they didn't know about on their credit.

So...back to showing the house again.
LMS

 

[DDD]

YUK! I'm sorry LMS. This real estate market is fierce! We are now puppets being controled by Bank of America. "They" are in charge of when or if we close on easy child/difficult child's house. Sigh! Sending good luck hugs. DDD