Looking for support/ideas

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Lalasea, Jun 15, 2012.

  1. Lalasea

    Lalasea New Member

    Hi, this is my first time posting. I have 2 boys - difficult child 1 who is 13, ADHD, but pretty stable and easy to deal with. Then I have difficult child 2 who is 10 and has been difficult from the get-go. He has all the classic behaviors that would define ODD. Have been seeing psychologists off and on since 1st grade (he is in 4th grade now). He has been suspended from school twice. Once in 2nd grade for hitting a girl and once in 3rd grade for an incident that involved a group of several boys and was classified as bullying. This year he has not been suspended. The first half of the year he seemed to do relatively ok. In January things seemed to take a turn for the worse. He started saying inappropriate things to girls (which has happened in school in the past). He says things like "I like boobs." He also started saying he wanted to be home schooled and started talking out more in class and being disruptive. He now has a chart that he brings home everyday regarding his behavior and he gets rewards or consquences based on his behavior.

    We saw a psychiatrist about 6 weeks ago. Since then he has been on 10mg Celexa. We also filled out a bunch of behavior forms (my husband and I each did a set and his two teachers each did a set). The forms all seemed to indicate some level of depression/anxiety. Only one (a teacher) of the 4 sets of forms seemed to indicate ADHD. Had also done this in 1st grade and ADHD did not come out from the forms. But the psychiatrist did not rule it out because of the behaviors we describe and the comments on his report cards, etc. We also did not start any ADHD medication, because at that point he had only been on the Celexa for 2 weeks.

    I think the Celexa has helped his mood. He seems happier and less argumentative at home. But, school is the same or worse. Talking out in class and often getting kicked out for being disruptive. And being inappropriate. Said the f word Monday. Today was saying "I am doctor" and raising his eyebrows and saying "suck my tooth." When people (usually girls) ask him to stop he does not. Everyone at school is pretty fed-up with him. The principal has been great and has yet to suspend him. Because he has said he wants to get kicked out of school. His reading is great. His math is really poor. He is fairly smart, but does not apply himself. He does have days here and there (and sometimes 2 in a row) where he does great and has no issues.

    He can be loving and warm. He can also have tantrums and call me names and swear at me (and his dad (my husband)). Although that has lessened recently. I am just really worn out and discouraged by his behavior at school. When we ask why he does it and does not stop when people ask he says "I don't know" or "I can't help it." We have one more week of school left here. But the principal said today if he has a bad day on Monday he will likely have to miss the rest of the week which is all the parties, field day, etc.

    I may have left some stuff out! Any support, help you can offer would be welcomed. Some days I just feel so beaten down.
  2. keista

    keista New Member

    Welcome. First, missing the last week of school is not the end of the world. Most ppl consider is fun stuff, but those with lacking social skill, can find it torture, so your difficult child may not mind at all.

    Yes, he sounds like he's lacking in social skills. Has he ever been evaluated for social age? This is something you may be able to have done through the school. He doesn't specifically sound like he fits in any specific category like Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) or ED - maybe somewhere in between.
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Welcome to the board :)...but so sorry you have to be here.

    I have a few questions that will help us be able to help you better. Can you tell us about his early deveopment and your pregnancy with him? Has he been like this (difficult) since he was born? Were his milestones on time? Was he affectionate with good eye contact? Did you and your husband have any early problems? Has he ever been totally evaluated, like, by a neuropsychologist? Who is diagnosing him?
  4. Lalasea

    Lalasea New Member

    Thanks to both of you! Here are some answer to the questions.

    Pregnancy was pretty normal. He was breach and delivered by c-section. He has a hard time latching and was bottle fed for a month or two while we got that worked out. He seemed to talk/walk within a normal time frame. He made/makes eye contact. He hugs me and asks for hugs quite often. I would say he became noticably difficult around 3 or so. He was stubborn. He didn't always want to go with the flow. He has had behavior difficulty in school since pre-school. He has never been evaluated by a neuropsychologist. The psychiatrist is diagnosing him. My husband and I have not had too many difficulties. He had a DUI about 5 years ago and stopped drinking. But other that that, we are pretty stable and have normal arguments. Although I think both us tend to being depressed at bit, but neither of us are on anti-depressants.

    He had his tonsils and adenoids removed in kindergarten, because they were enlarged and he was snoring. He did not want to eat/drink because of the pain, would not take that antibiotics or pain medications. We ended up back in the hospital because he was dehydrated. He still refused to take his antibiotics. The nurse tried giving him stickers (I knew back then that was futile). We had to basically hold him down to get him to take the medications. Tried mixing them with ice cream, chocolate sauce, etc. One time when he had an infection (I can't remember why) and was supposed to take antibiotics he refused. He ended up with a shot in the rear, which he said he preferred, because he did not want to take the medications. That is how stubborn he can be.

    He has friends at school and is well liked by plenty of kids. A lot of the other boys think he is funny.

    I know missing the last week of school is not a big deal. But, he wants to go. I worry that he already feels badly about himself. We generally take away video games/tv as his consequence and that is what he seems to care about the most. The family therapist we are seeing is big on rewards, so we try to be on top of that as well for good behavior.

    Hope that fills in a few more blanks!
  5. keista

    keista New Member

    I find the medications thing interesting. Only because that's my DD2. Yup, even when they are hidden, even when they taste good, she refuses medications. She used to prefer shots, but then managed to transfer her phobia to shots as well. Her diagnosis? She used to be a mule in her previous life. LOL
  6. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Does he have tics? Blurt out words, blink, sniffle, etc. Tics can be a sign of tourettes. But not always.
  7. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Wanted to welcome you as well. A neuropsychologist evaluation is a good idea. Do you think he has any sensory problems or hearing problems or is his hear restricted to certain environments? (Can hear at home but not at school). A book that helped me to survive the early years of the diagnosis journey is the Explosive Child by Ross Green. If he really wants to go to the last week of school will he behave better. Can he behave better if the incentive is high enough and if he can how long does it last? My oldest can control his behavior (mostly) if he wants to. My others can't.
  8. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Hi there! So glad you found us. Poor guy. I agree you might be one of the lucky ones who has to dig and dig to figure out what is going on. A neuropsychologist is a great idea ... and maybe an evaluation for things like auditory processing or specific learning disabilities or sensory integration disorder etc. Esp since this started so young ....makes sense there is some kind of invisible issue going on. Wouldn't it be great if we could just peek in their brains and know? The explosive child book as well as what your explosive child is trying to tell you by Doug Riley may be a great way to start looking for the individual issues going on and breaking down how to work on them.

    Wish you well and glad you're here! Dee
  9. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Well, others have already made most of my suggestions - comprehensive evaluation if you can, but also Occupational Therapist (OT) for sensory and motor skills, Speech Language Pathologist (SLP)/specialist audiolgist for Auditory Processing Disorders (APD)...

    This caught my attention, though:
    If his reading is great and his math is poor... how is his writing? If both writing and math are a problem - even PART of the time - it might be an indication of fine motor skills problems, which are a huge problem at school and it gets worse with each new grade.

    If he has some days when he does OK and others not... are you keeping a log? Is there any pattern? When we started keeping track, we saw obvious trends that were fatigue-based: morning was better than afternoon, Monday was better than Friday, September was better than December... or April! Our difficult child was dealing with a complex set of undiagnosed problems that were sapping his mental capacity faster than we could recharge him. If there is a fatigue factor, some of the things that can come into play are motor skills, Auditory Processing Disorders (APD), sensory issues, sleep issues... there's probably others.
  10. Hello and welcome.

    Just wanted to share that my difficult child says many similar inappropriate things both at home and school so, I know what you are going through. Although I am sure most school age boys engage in this behavior to one degree or another, my son's degree and persistence with this problem are what worry me. His father got a phone call from the principal a couple of months ago when difficult child told his teacher that he was going to shoot her in the vagina with a water gun (I guess to make it look like she had urinated?) He is constantly talking about diarrhea, butt cracks, man boobs, vomit, kissing girls and boys, my bras, saying that certain people are "hot", etc....despite daily reminders about what is and is not appropriate to speak about at the dinner table, on the playground, etc.

    I have mentioned this behavior to his psychiatrist, told them about the phone call from the principal, but they do not provide any feedback whatever regarding the behavior. I see it as impulsiveness but also social inappropriateness.... We are hoping to start behavioral therapy again soon and I am hoping this will help.

    Please keep us updated on your story.
  11. Lalasea

    Lalasea New Member

    Thank you everyone. I thought the idea of missing the fun days of school would keep him in check. Nope! Home from school. Was saying "oo la la" to a girl and would not stop. Even after the teacher made him sit a chair away from others, he kept sneaking back and saying "oo la la" to her. He was sent to the principal's office. He told the principal he forgot what he had told him on Friday about missing fun activities this week (although we had also talked about it over the weekend). He is missing the beach tomorrow and then I'll take him back for a regular day on Wednesday and see how he does.

    When I picked him up he knew I was upset and he said "I'm sorry, I tried." I am beginning to think may be can't help himself. I have always thought it was attention seeking on purpose.

    He does have fine motor issues. His handwriting is pretty poor. He does not seem to have any tics.

    I am not keeping a log, but maybe that is a good idea. Definately lack of sleep and not eating always make it worse!

    I am looking forward to summer! This last month or two has really been the worst stretch we've had.
  12. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    If it was only attention seeking it would slowly go away if attention was paid to other things and no attention was paid to the bad behavior. (After a hefty extinction bust of course.) Maybe a good thing to work on over the summer when you control his environment more.

    Most behaviors are not just for attention. It'd make our lives much easier if they were.
  13. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    UGH! been there done that. The only thing worse than lack of sleep is... low blood sugar.