Looks like he'll be getting an apartment

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by KFld, Sep 3, 2007.

  1. KFld

    KFld New Member

    Quite a few things have gotten accomplished over the past few days. I met with my mother in law the other day for lunch and to say the least, she wasn't happy with her sons choice. In talking to her, and this isn't a surprise to me at all really, I think she has stayed in a marriage that she has questioned for many years but chose to stay and I think she does look back at it and think, what did I do. She told me she hopes husband gets into counseling so he can learn what he needs to about himself because he's still not taking responsibility, and that someday maybe we can work this out, but she stands behind me 100% in whatever decision I make. When I said to her that I don't want to stay in the marriage for the wrong reasons and look back another 27 years from now and regret it, she said, believe me I know exactly how you feel, do what is best for you. She is very upset with him that he did this to me while I was trying to deal with the death of my mother and understands that is something I truley don't know if I will ever be able to forgive him for.

    He talked to his mother last night and we agreed not to tell him I had already talked to her. I wanted him to take the responsibility, plus she wanted to hear his side without him thinking I said anything that he needed to defend himself against. Of course he told her that our marriage is over, I don't want to be married to him anymore, and that he had an affair that didn't mean anything, but that really doesn't have anything to do with why we are seperating. My mother in law didn't let him get away with the explanation of the affair and it not meaning anything, or that it has nothing to do with us seperating. She told him she thinks he drinks too much and that he should get himself into counseling NOW, because whether we save our marriage or not he needs to work somethings out for himself. He told her to same thing he told me. He doesn't need counseling, he just needs time to figure out if it's really his insecurities that make him feel that I'm not physical enough, or if it's really just me. So in other words he'll go out and try a bunch of relationships and see if the grass is greener on the other side and that will solve his problems.

    His brothers are in construction and real estate. They have an apartment he can move into for awhile and I will stay in the house with easy child daughter for now. I will go to counseling and sort out my life and he will move to the apartment and do whatever he feels he needs to to sort out his. I think what he thinks will solve his problems will put a definite end to our marriage, because he doesn't believe he's any of the problem, so he doesn't need to work on anything.

    So I have to do what I have to for me. I can't wait to go to counseling tomorrow. We have to discuss further when he's actually going to move out, but it will probably be shortly after my dad leaves next week. I'm really looking toward to the time and space. It's been very difficult because even though I've been enjoying my dad being here I have not had 2 seconds of privacy to deal with any of this and there are moments when I feel I am going to snap. I thank god I have good friends and family members that I can call 24/7 and say HELP, I'm going to snap. And of course all of you hear keep me pretty sain.

    I'll keep you all posted.

    Oh I forgot the part about him being influenced by a bunch of new friends who don't even know me. When I asked him yesterday if he gave anymore thought on getting a place, he came out with, no that would be abandonment and everyone is telling me not to leave because if this gets nasty I will lose the house. I snapped on that one. I said to him if you think for one minute I would ever not be financially fair in anyway through all of this, then you don't know me at all. I told him I have never had a thought of taking everything from him and that I want us both to come out of this happy and comfortable and be able to move on with out lives, and if we do this in a mature manner and work things out ourselves, there won't be a problem, but if he's going to let people who don't even know me, and who barely know him, influence his thoughts and make him believe things that he knows I would never do, then it will become nasty, and it will be his doing, not mine.

    I'm thinking we can do this without an attorney. His mother is telling me I should get one. I'll see how things start playing out first.
  2. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Listen to his mother. She sounds like a real gem. She also sounds like she's got her son's number, well and truly. So if she says get an attorney, get one.

    Your husband's friends sound like they know what they're talking about. Sounds like he's already joined the "jaded freshly single men" club. It really also sounds a lot like easy child 2/difficult child 2's ex-boyfriend and t he nasty influence HIS friends had on him which led to their break-up.

    Misery loves company and there's little that is more miserable than a group of men who have hurt their women and are determined to not learn a thing from the experience, but to continue making the same mistakes and supporting each other in doing so.

    If you husband has these 'friends' to advise him, get an attorney. If you don't need the attorney, no big deal. But if later on it turns out to have been a good decision... definitely worth the peace of mind.

    Never make promises you don't know enough about. Wait and see what happens. Here's hoping this can continue to be a friendly separation, but don't assume it will be and leave yourself open to being hurt in other ways. An attorney can help keep things straight and fair, without EITHER of you being taken advantage of.

  3. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Do get an attorney, Karen. NOT so you can nail him to the cross
    but to assure that your interests are protected. It does not
    have to be ugly but in an emotional state it is not wise to try
    to save a few bucks dealing with issues you may not even be aware
    of. My Ex and I "shared" an attorney to save money. It was not
    a wise choice for me or my children. Hugs. DDD
  4. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    Hi! Get an attorney - it has nothing to do with it being friendly - it has to do with a practical mind that will protect your legal rights within the legal system. Keep in mind, while some divorces might end up friendly, the State still has it's greedy little paws out there!

    By the way: (this is a personal pet peeve) Why is it that men justify affairs with "she didn't mean anything to me".? Is that supposed to make you feel better? Oh let me see, I'm supposed to forgive you because you dipped your wick where it didn't belong and destroyed my trust, damaged our relationship, and devestated our life together and it didn't mean anything? I don't know about anyone else, but I find that more insulting than if he said that he was in love with someone else!

    No insult to the gents on the board, but sometimes I don't get men!

    Thinking positive thoughts for you Karen!!!

  5. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    I'm another one who has been there done that, and I too would urge you to get an attorney! He's probably getting a lot of really bad advise from his newfound friends and none of it will be to your advantage.

    And until you're in the middle of it, you have no idea how complicated a divorce can get and how many "details" there are to handle, some that can affect you and your children for years to come. You don't want to take any chances, especially if there are children still living at home. Anything you spend on an attorney will be money well spent and it will give you peace of mind to have professional guidance. <u>This is something you don't want to take on by yourself</u>. If it's "friendly" and goes smoothly, wonderful. But it can turn around in a heartbeat - especially if he starts a new relationship and she gets into it! It happens! And if it does, you will be very glad that you got an attorney!
  6. skeeter

    skeeter New Member

    I luckily had a "legal plan" at work, so the only costs in my "dissolution" (Ohio allows for a dissolution if both parties are agreeable) were court and filing fees.
    But the attorneys know how and what paperwork to file, how it needs to be written, etc. I pretty much dictated WHAT went in those papers, but the attorney made sure it was legally presented.
    Please talk to one NOW. In certain states there are particular stipulations that have to be in effect before a divorce or dissolution can be filed. You need to make sure you are covering all of these. Things such as getting separate bank accounts and closing any that are held jointly. Who continues to pay house payments - regardless of who is living in or ultimately getting the house.
    Friendly is one thing. Legal is another. Take care of yourself on both counts.
  7. KFld

    KFld New Member

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nvts</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> By the way: (this is a personal pet peeve) Why is it that men justify affairs with "she didn't mean anything to me".? Is that supposed to make you feel better? Oh let me see, I'm supposed to forgive you because you dipped your wick where it didn't belong and destroyed my trust, damaged our relationship, and devestated our life together and it didn't mean anything? I don't know about anyone else, but I find that more insulting than if he said that he was in love with someone else!

    Beth </div></div>

    I keep saying the same things to him myself. He has done nothing but make excuses to justify what he did and has not taken one bit of responsibility. He doesn't realize it's making things so much worse. He's pretty much telling people that I want out of the marriage, haven't been happy for a long time and his affair just kind of opened everything up. Again, not taking responsibility. Oh well, my real friends and family know me, so I really don't care what the people who don't know me think.

    If I ever dissapear in the middle of a post, it's because he walked in, but I'm sure you would all figure that out.

    The bizarre thing is his new friends he has been spending all his time with and getting all his advice from are 3 lesbian girls that he met at the bar. They have kind of taken him and and are trying to help him. I'm sure they will figure out his number soon. Right now they don't know anything about me, so they are just believing what he tells them. I guess they are making him feel good about himself and what he's done, so he can just knock himself out and enjoy his new friends.
  8. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Get an attorney. It very well may start out friendly, but it might not end that way. It raises red flags with me that he's already accusing you of wanting to screw him over by making him leave the house. Guilty conscience and all that jazz. In any case, you need to make sure your interests protected and that all the t's are crossed and i's are dotted.
  9. svengandhi

    svengandhi Well-Known Member

    Karen -

    Get an attorney. You will need support for your easy child and to make sure that joint holdings and property are divided in a way that is fair to YOU. Screw a bunch of him for now.

    Many times when cheaters separate, it is so they can continue to "cake eat," which means having a spouse and a cheating buddy on the side. He will most likely continue to see this woman because he has set it up in his mind that you don't want him anymore so it's ok for him to do what he wants.

    If you want your M to end, go for it and don't drag it out. If you want to save it, don't let him move out, get into marriage counseling (I convinced my H to go as a favor to me, to help me deal with what was going on and he eventually began IC himself for a year - not that it made much difference) and IC for both of you, institute and maintain no contact with the cheating buddy and, above all, don't beg him to choose you.
  10. 1905

    1905 Well-Known Member

    You need an attorney. His new friends are telling him alot more than he's sharing with you. Do it for piece of mind, to protect yourself, if for no other reason. I think a "legal separation" will keep your joint things intact, so no one can do anything untoward finacially. -Alyssa
  11. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    All of my life experiences tell me to tell you to get an attorney. It does not matter who you think each other are and what you each think the other is capable of. All gloves come off during a divorce.

    My mother and my best friend both walked away with almost nothing. One to try to be the 'bigger' person and not take the other for a ride, the other to just get away as quick as possible. Both ended up struggling with their children and those expenses for several years.
    Both men (including my father) made life so unbearable (even with both women going easy on the men) they both gave up even more to just get out of the stress.

    It gets dirty.
  12. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    You can get a mediation attorney. It doesn't have to be litigious.

    So I have to do what I have to for me. I can't wait to go to counseling tomorrow. We have to discuss further when he's actually going to move out, but it will probably be shortly after my dad leaves next week. I'm really looking toward to the time and space.

    Absolutely!!!! Wishing you strength.
  13. KFld

    KFld New Member

    I got to counseling today and I can't wait. That is how much this women helps me.

    I actually feel pretty good today. I got a good nights sleep, which really helps. I think the fact that my dad went to bed early last night and actually slept until right before I left for work this morning helps also. This has been so difficult because I feel like I can't even breathe most of the time. I had enough space last night and this morning to rejuvinate me a little bit anyways...

    husband has been out every night and day with his new friends, I guess feeling sorry for himself, or whatever he is doing, while I have been home with my dad every minute. I haven't had anytime to process anything.

    Tonight we go out and spread my moms ashes in Long Island Sound. I am going to focus on that today.
  14. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    He is getting his attention, one way or another. I feel sorry for him being so needy.

    Glad you had a good night and are starting out the week right!
  15. scent of cedar

    scent of cedar New Member

    Do you know who you will see if you find it necessary to use an attorney, Karen?

    Once you know that, all it takes is a phone call to begin the process.

    It is a 27 year marriage. You both have been through alot with difficult child, and there is no way of telling what effect that had on either of you.

    Are you willing to undergo marital counseling with husband before you call it quits?

    (Just as an aside? The three lesbians in the bar thing sounds a little too much like the used car salesman telling the prospective buyer that the car has only been driven by a one-legged Sunday school teacher on her way to church.)

    The thing is that marriage is about so much more than sex. Men will often act out sexually because that is where they view everything from (sorry to any men out there). And it truly, literally, means nothing ~ until they see the other woman often enough to actually get to know her, in addition to having sex with her.

    When things have come to this point, especially with everything else the two of you have been through, I think you need to give the marriage the benefit of the doubt and make every effort to save it.

    Whatever husband has been doing with his genitalia is less important than what he has been doing with the rest of him. Why HAS husband left you alone during this time? Did he come to feel ineffectual as you both went through dealing with difficult child?

    Have you stopped seeing husband as someone who can save a situation, step up to the plate and be a man, through what has happened with your difficult child?

    husband and I are still going through the underlying emotions ~ the things that were stuffed away so we could deal with whatever the current crisis was with our difficult child. The most harmful thing that happened to either of us as we went through those times is that the who we thought the other guy was got tarnished.

    We were like two old horses pulling an old wagon.

    Once the kids were out of the wagon, we looked across and saw nothing but that other, same old horse who had been there through all those bad, long nights of pulling a wagon we never wanted to be hitched up to to begin with.

    It hasn't been easy for husband and I. We were nearly divorced, this summer. We may still not make it. It is just too hard to see the person I went through such horrible things with as the person who can accompany me now, when I no longer want to be that same, desperate person I was when I was trying to save difficult child.

    But our marriages, and our husbands, DO deserve for us to be certain that, somewhere in there, the husband we have been sleeping with all these years is still the one man in all the world who is strong enough, and wonderful enough, to bring us back.

    We are in a holding pattern, at my house.

    Try it.

    Try one more time.

  16. KFld

    KFld New Member

    Thanks Barbara, but these are things we have done for years. We tried the marriage counseling, we've beaten a dead horse over the same issues for many years and this is kind of the straw that broke the camels back. I am going to counseling for myself. He doesn't think he needs any because he doesn't think he has any problems that need to be solved, and he says I'm stubborn :)He has taken no responsibility for the affair, as a matter of fact he hasn't even apologized. He has done nothing but justify why he did it. Not only has he not apologized for the affair, he hasn't even made an effort to apologize to me for what he was doing at the time I was watching and waiting for my mother to die. The closest thing he has come to it is to say he screwed up and then said something about feeling really low about it. That is it.

    I don't know how this will end and I really haven't made any final decisions. I will go to counseling and think long and hard before I decide. I will not try to convince him to get counseling for himself, that isn't my job. I can tell you though that if he can never admit that he has some issues himself that need fixing or take any responsibility for any problems in our marriage, then there is no hope. I may not have been a hand holder, but I have done everything else for him for 27 years. I have given up a lot of my happiness to make him happy, but I guess that wasn't enough and he can't seem to see past anything but what he wasn't getting and look at what he had.
  17. WhymeMom?

    WhymeMom? No real answers to life..

    Thinking of you as you consider the changes in your life....
  18. wakeupcall

    wakeupcall Well-Known Member

    What a rough road. Please...take time to grieve. The rest can wait.
  19. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911


    Don't get an attorney! For goodness sakes...listen to your husband and "believe" HIM when he says that you can do this without the advice and good sense of someone else (an attorney) that would have YOUR best interest at heart.

    I know at this stage a lot of the emotional problems you've been going through are seemingly behind you. You're letting your guard down dear. People like your husband seem to know these things like a 7th sense. (thinking) OH if I wait a little and let her "calm down" she'll be able to be swept off her feet by my rogue looks and razzle dazzel mouth works. He'll have some friend that is (no offense) smarter in deceptive arts...literally put the words you long to hear IN HIS MOUTH and he will come to you, say them and because it's WHAT YOU HAVE WANTED TO HEAR FOR SO LONG....you'll believe everything he has to say. He's not necessarily doing it to hurt you, but he WILL BE doing it to get WHAT HE WANTS AGAIN.

    Are you going to give him that chance Karen - AGAIN?


    Listen no one here would be more on the trampoline with you or anyone else about kicking his hide to the curb for what he's done. But that's your decision. It is just that experience and history *USUALLY* prevail in matters like this and that's why you're getting so much advice.

    You do what you need to do girl....but you've been give the gift of insight from so many here.

    Don't assume he's going to be fair in any matter regarding you, and tell yourself each day "I vow to never be taken advantage again by a member of the opposite sex so help me".

    He hasn't really been FAIR in anything he's done up till now
    He HAS done things that suited him and stroked his ego
    And when the chips are down....he's telling you he's ALREADY SOUGHT counsel with others so he's discussed the situation with many people....you have us, your therapist and seems like his Mom telling you all the same thing...

    If you trust him again....so soon without him having any time under his belt to try to make things right - you are asking for it. And belive me....from one who knows...You're gonna get it.

    Be smart. Take care of you.

  20. KFld

    KFld New Member

    Actually he called me this morning and said he contacted an attorney to be a mediator. He is so paranoid about leaving the house and losing it, that I guess he really won't believe me when I say I would never do that. So we will get an attorney and this way everything will be done evenly. I guess people have been telling him that we should do a legal seperation so he won't lose everything. Hey if that's what it takes because he won't believe me, then it's fine by me.

    I'm the one talking about seperating, getting myself some counseling and really figuring out what I want to do with my life, and he's already figured out what we should and shouldn't sell in order to get me a condo, which is what I would want in the end anyway if things don't work out. Sounds like he has decided it's to late to work things out already. I don't want to stay in our house. It's a huge house, too much for my daughter and I, so it was never a thought anyway.

    The apartment he thought he might be able to get doesn't sound like it will work out. We are trying not to rent something expensive that needs a lease because we have no idea how long he'll need it and financially we can't afford to be paying a huge rent while paying the bills we already have.

    We have a 80 foot long L shaped ranched. 3 bedrooms at one end and two at the other. I'm wondering how it would work if I moved into one end with easy child daughter and he lived at the other. The only thing we would have to share is the kitchen and it would take the worry out of the finance thing until we make a decision. What do you guys think. Am I nuts again???? Can I really decide what I want to do with my life if he's living anywhere in the house???

    I think I'll run this by my counselor and see if she thinks I'm nuts, or if this would be unhealthy for our daughter??

    In one way I think it would make it easier because I keep thinking about how we are going to afford to seperate, and on the other hand I don't know if I could handle us being in the same house leading seperate lives.