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Manipulative son threatens and hounds
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 617356" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>Tish the Dish. I love that name! </p><p></p><p>:O)</p><p></p><p>We haven't faced caring for a special needs grandchild. Though we did take our granddaughters from time to time, it was never longer than two or three months. This was fortunate, because our daughter went on to have two more children. Our son has two children. Had my husband not made it perfectly clear that he had no intention of raising his grandchildren other than for short-term emergencies...we could be raising six children, right now. </p><p></p><p>Know what we're doing, instead? Sunning, boating, roaring around in convertibles with the other old farts. Drinking too much sometimes and telling each other this has got to stop. Falling into and out of love with each other, laying down the law and working through all those things marriage is really about.</p><p></p><p>That is what you should choose too, Tish. My husband chose that for me. If it had been up to me? I would be the one raising the six (maybe, more) grandchildren. It was touch and go for awhile, there. </p><p></p><p>Our son did ask us (did demand, I should say) that we take his biological child. We have taken our daughter's kids, or I have gone to stay with them, many times. This might have been no different. Had our son shown up with the baby? I am sure I would have taken him. So, I am serious when I say there is a pretty good chance we could be raising between four and six grandchildren right this minute, Tish. And as many more kids as either of our children brought into the world. Where do you stop, when that is the family dynamic, right?</p><p></p><p>As long as the possibility that you will take this child exists, your son and the child's mother will not have to take responsibility. The option you present should be the threat of foster care ~ not that, if it gets bad enough, if mom and dad just can't help but take drugs, Grandma will raise their baby. And any other babies that come along, too?</p><p></p><p>What I heard in your post is that you know what decision you have to make. Two years ago, when the first danger signals of our daughter's impending breakdown were shivering around the edges of things, husband and I considered calling in Social Services. If there is anything I cannot forgive myself for now, it is that we did not do that. Our daughter's children were exposed to terrible things, to terrible people.</p><p></p><p>No one can decide for you, Tish. But I can tell you that you <u>are</u> seeing what you think you are seeing. That little boy does need help. All the dreams we dreamed, all the things we were so sure we had, as we raised our children...none of that happened for us, Tish. Something very bad happened, to us, and to our children. We have to see that so clearly Tish, so we can know how to proceed. I do hear that in your post. You do see your situation clearly. But you, like my husband and I, are reluctant to act decisively on what you know. </p><p></p><p>Hope and belief can strengthen us in some ways. But hope and belief can blind us to what is happening right now, can blind us to what is real. The worst thing that could happen to anyone happened to us, Tish. Not once, but twice. We've lost our children in a way even more painful than death. There is no grace period for us, no community support, no healing come of time. Our children are alive. They're in more trouble than you or I even knew existed. They're confused, they're in pain...and there is nothing we can do to help them. They are being judged by their communities, by their old friends, by their extended families, by their parents and even, on some secret level, by themselves.</p><p></p><p>There could hardly be a worse thing that could happen to anyone than losing their children, their family, their dreams of grandchildren and great grandchildren, the way we have. And we are helpless, in the face of it. As you noted in your honesty over the issue of custody of your grandchild, there is nothing you can realistically do, even for him.</p><p></p><p>But there is, Tish.</p><p></p><p>You can see clearly, admit what you see is true, and act on what you know to be the best thing. It is not going to be pleasant. It is never going to feel good, you will always wonder whether it was the best thing, what else you might have done. You might beat yourself up over not taking him, yourself.</p><p></p><p>You might do that for the rest of your life, Tish. </p><p></p><p>I did that for a long, long time. Because I felt like such a failure, I encouraged everyone else to think poorly of me, to walk all over me, too.</p><p></p><p>It seemed like what I deserved.</p><p></p><p>I spent so long trying to figure out what happened, to figure out what I did and fix it. I felt so responsible. And then, my daughter got into trouble again. Really bad trouble, and I came back to this site. And I began to learn how to see with brutal clarity. And what I saw was that what I was doing wasn't helping. </p><p></p><p>My taking the blame for anything I have no control over only makes it easier for my kids never to have to face up to what they are doing. And then, I realized something else: My depression was a sort of screwed up way I was punishing everyone involved ~ including me. It was almost like, it I suffered enough, my kids would feel so guilty that they would stop doing what they were doing. But what I would learn this time was the real reason for my oldest child's problems. Like you Tish, my oldest child was diagnosed with mental illness. Whether it was the illness that led to the drug use or whether the drug use exacerbated the illness, we will never know. What I do know, darn well, is that illicit drug use made everything a thousand, million times worse.</p><p></p><p>And, though mental illness is not a choice, drug use is.</p><p></p><p>I knew all this in the back of my mind for a really long time. I think that knowing/not knowing part of me may have contributed to my own depression. </p><p></p><p>I just wouldn't see it.</p><p></p><p>But...mental illness of any degree is a genetic thing. For goodness' sake, my whole family is screwed up, one way or another. Which meant...I hadn't done this. Other than handing down my genes, I had not done anything horrible to my child, to my children. And feeling guilty in the face of a mental illness is not going to make it go away, no matter how much the mentally ill person loves (or hates) his or her mother. </p><p></p><p>So, there I was, with this stupid depression cooking away, and a ton of anxiety to boot.</p><p></p><p>I posted here like a madwoman. I learned. I posted more. Up and down and all around, with both kids, and I posted all through it. I did begin to get healthier, Tish. I began to see differently, began to let go of those horrible feelings of responsibility and inadequacy and shame.</p><p></p><p>I am still working very hard on myself, Tish. But it's working. And as it works, as I reinterpret all those things I thought I knew, I am changing. As I change, I am changing how I interact with my kids. The jury is still out on the outcome? But I feel better, cleaner. I actually respect my kids more. I see them as people who need to pick up, as people who, mentally ill or scarred in their childhoods by a really crummy mom or whatever it was, need to and are strong enough, competent enough, bright enough, to pull themselves out of the holes they've created all on their own.</p><p></p><p>That is true respect.</p><p></p><p>They are adults.</p><p></p><p>They do not need me. What they do need is to know that I have changed, that I no longer feel responsible for their irresponsible acts, and that I will not be helping, financially or any other way, when the next crisis arrives. </p><p></p><p>That is all I need to do.</p><p></p><p>That, and stay out of it.</p><p></p><p>That, and model healthy, happy behaviors, so they know who and how they <u>can</u> be.</p><p></p><p>It is never going to feel good, Tish. </p><p></p><p>It isn't going to go away.</p><p></p><p>Our children are self destructing. They're taking our grandchildren down with them. And all the while, they're using drugs and whining about what <u>we</u> need to do.</p><p></p><p>We have to stand up, Tish.</p><p></p><p>I'm so sorry this happened to you, Tish the Dish; I am even more sorry that it happened to me. More than anything, I am so sorry, so outraged, that it happened to our kids and that it is happening to our innocent grandchildren.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 617356, member: 17461"] Tish the Dish. I love that name! :O) We haven't faced caring for a special needs grandchild. Though we did take our granddaughters from time to time, it was never longer than two or three months. This was fortunate, because our daughter went on to have two more children. Our son has two children. Had my husband not made it perfectly clear that he had no intention of raising his grandchildren other than for short-term emergencies...we could be raising six children, right now. Know what we're doing, instead? Sunning, boating, roaring around in convertibles with the other old farts. Drinking too much sometimes and telling each other this has got to stop. Falling into and out of love with each other, laying down the law and working through all those things marriage is really about. That is what you should choose too, Tish. My husband chose that for me. If it had been up to me? I would be the one raising the six (maybe, more) grandchildren. It was touch and go for awhile, there. Our son did ask us (did demand, I should say) that we take his biological child. We have taken our daughter's kids, or I have gone to stay with them, many times. This might have been no different. Had our son shown up with the baby? I am sure I would have taken him. So, I am serious when I say there is a pretty good chance we could be raising between four and six grandchildren right this minute, Tish. And as many more kids as either of our children brought into the world. Where do you stop, when that is the family dynamic, right? As long as the possibility that you will take this child exists, your son and the child's mother will not have to take responsibility. The option you present should be the threat of foster care ~ not that, if it gets bad enough, if mom and dad just can't help but take drugs, Grandma will raise their baby. And any other babies that come along, too? What I heard in your post is that you know what decision you have to make. Two years ago, when the first danger signals of our daughter's impending breakdown were shivering around the edges of things, husband and I considered calling in Social Services. If there is anything I cannot forgive myself for now, it is that we did not do that. Our daughter's children were exposed to terrible things, to terrible people. No one can decide for you, Tish. But I can tell you that you [U]are[/U] seeing what you think you are seeing. That little boy does need help. All the dreams we dreamed, all the things we were so sure we had, as we raised our children...none of that happened for us, Tish. Something very bad happened, to us, and to our children. We have to see that so clearly Tish, so we can know how to proceed. I do hear that in your post. You do see your situation clearly. But you, like my husband and I, are reluctant to act decisively on what you know. Hope and belief can strengthen us in some ways. But hope and belief can blind us to what is happening right now, can blind us to what is real. The worst thing that could happen to anyone happened to us, Tish. Not once, but twice. We've lost our children in a way even more painful than death. There is no grace period for us, no community support, no healing come of time. Our children are alive. They're in more trouble than you or I even knew existed. They're confused, they're in pain...and there is nothing we can do to help them. They are being judged by their communities, by their old friends, by their extended families, by their parents and even, on some secret level, by themselves. There could hardly be a worse thing that could happen to anyone than losing their children, their family, their dreams of grandchildren and great grandchildren, the way we have. And we are helpless, in the face of it. As you noted in your honesty over the issue of custody of your grandchild, there is nothing you can realistically do, even for him. But there is, Tish. You can see clearly, admit what you see is true, and act on what you know to be the best thing. It is not going to be pleasant. It is never going to feel good, you will always wonder whether it was the best thing, what else you might have done. You might beat yourself up over not taking him, yourself. You might do that for the rest of your life, Tish. I did that for a long, long time. Because I felt like such a failure, I encouraged everyone else to think poorly of me, to walk all over me, too. It seemed like what I deserved. I spent so long trying to figure out what happened, to figure out what I did and fix it. I felt so responsible. And then, my daughter got into trouble again. Really bad trouble, and I came back to this site. And I began to learn how to see with brutal clarity. And what I saw was that what I was doing wasn't helping. My taking the blame for anything I have no control over only makes it easier for my kids never to have to face up to what they are doing. And then, I realized something else: My depression was a sort of screwed up way I was punishing everyone involved ~ including me. It was almost like, it I suffered enough, my kids would feel so guilty that they would stop doing what they were doing. But what I would learn this time was the real reason for my oldest child's problems. Like you Tish, my oldest child was diagnosed with mental illness. Whether it was the illness that led to the drug use or whether the drug use exacerbated the illness, we will never know. What I do know, darn well, is that illicit drug use made everything a thousand, million times worse. And, though mental illness is not a choice, drug use is. I knew all this in the back of my mind for a really long time. I think that knowing/not knowing part of me may have contributed to my own depression. I just wouldn't see it. But...mental illness of any degree is a genetic thing. For goodness' sake, my whole family is screwed up, one way or another. Which meant...I hadn't done this. Other than handing down my genes, I had not done anything horrible to my child, to my children. And feeling guilty in the face of a mental illness is not going to make it go away, no matter how much the mentally ill person loves (or hates) his or her mother. So, there I was, with this stupid depression cooking away, and a ton of anxiety to boot. I posted here like a madwoman. I learned. I posted more. Up and down and all around, with both kids, and I posted all through it. I did begin to get healthier, Tish. I began to see differently, began to let go of those horrible feelings of responsibility and inadequacy and shame. I am still working very hard on myself, Tish. But it's working. And as it works, as I reinterpret all those things I thought I knew, I am changing. As I change, I am changing how I interact with my kids. The jury is still out on the outcome? But I feel better, cleaner. I actually respect my kids more. I see them as people who need to pick up, as people who, mentally ill or scarred in their childhoods by a really crummy mom or whatever it was, need to and are strong enough, competent enough, bright enough, to pull themselves out of the holes they've created all on their own. That is true respect. They are adults. They do not need me. What they do need is to know that I have changed, that I no longer feel responsible for their irresponsible acts, and that I will not be helping, financially or any other way, when the next crisis arrives. That is all I need to do. That, and stay out of it. That, and model healthy, happy behaviors, so they know who and how they [U]can[/U] be. It is never going to feel good, Tish. It isn't going to go away. Our children are self destructing. They're taking our grandchildren down with them. And all the while, they're using drugs and whining about what [U]we[/U] need to do. We have to stand up, Tish. I'm so sorry this happened to you, Tish the Dish; I am even more sorry that it happened to me. More than anything, I am so sorry, so outraged, that it happened to our kids and that it is happening to our innocent grandchildren. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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