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Special Ed 101
Martie, can you help me understand this?
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<blockquote data-quote="Martie" data-source="post: 13465" data-attributes="member: 284"><p>MM,</p><p></p><p>I am not sure if you know this stuff--but someone won't, so I will write it.</p><p></p><p>This test is TRYING to be hard to understand. The composite indices have a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of 15 or 16. The subtests have a mean of 50 and a standard deviation of 10. Therefore, everything that you report looks arithmetically Kosher to me (as best I can tell without a manual for the test.)</p><p></p><p>The VIX is 4 points above the mean. The NIX is almost 2 standard deviations above the mean. This is LIKELY to be a statistically significant split. Are such splits important? They can be--or not and there are several ways to get them--some indicating problems and others being somewhat artifactual.</p><p></p><p>The subtests are mixed. The verbals are not unusual because they are very slightly above the mean of 50, which, of course, yields a VIX very close to the mean also.</p><p></p><p>Likewise, the nonverbal subtests are well above the mean (they would have to be to yield a NIX of 129) with both of them 1.5 standard deviations above the mean. Because it is statistically unlikely to be this way, the composite is even higher (almost 2 s.d. above the mean of 100.)</p><p></p><p>The composite memory is the most interesting because it is a non-meaningful combination of one score that is 2.5 s.d. below the mean, and one that is one s.d. above the mean, yielding a composite that is almost a s.d. below the mean. If someone tells you an 88 with within normal limits--it is, but how your difficult child got there is not. There is a significant problem (2.5 s.d. below the mean is below the 2nd percentile on most norming samples) on one half of the composite and performance at the 68th percentile on the other. THIS difference would be stat sig and also very important in my opinion. Your daughter has a deficit in verbal memory that is quite pronounced. I think this is a problem given the high scores in other areas. Such discrepancies are called INTRAindividual differences, and can make the child feel "strange" about motivation because he/she can do well in some things but struggles with others.</p><p></p><p>Examples from my kids' lives--one very bad--one interpreted badly but without meaning which shows that one cannot generalize about splits---it depends upon how it came about.</p><p></p><p>When easy child was a toddler, she had a significant expressive language delay and was served privately 2X per week from age 18 months. I had a very good handle on what was going on because she had been evaluated by the best (Northwestern U. Sp/Language Clinic.) When she turned 3, the SD evaluated her. She scored a VIQ of 75 and a PIQ of 138. The ditz who evaluated said that she averaged out within normal limits (with a 63 point split!!!!) because the FSIQ was around 106. This is not OK--we moved out of this SD when they stood behind this nonsense. There was nothing average about her--she was VERY strong in nonverbal reasoning and having serious problems with verbally expressing what (it subsequently was shown) she knew--but couldn't get across to the examiner. To ignore this type of split is very incompetent of the examiner and would have very negative effects on the child.</p><p></p><p>Ex-difficult child was evaluated to rule out Learning Disability (LD) (and ADHD) in second grade. He scored well above 145 on PIQ because he is blazingly fast and got every time bonus available AND mental math is also on the PIQ. He scored a VIQ of 120 giving him at least a 25 point split which by age 8 is stat sig. The SD used this "discrepancy" to "prove" he had an Learning Disability (LD) he didn't have because first, a VIQ of 120 suggests above average verbal skill--AND he was at or above grade level in reading. I told the school psychologist that if he were retested, and I told him it was VERY IMPORTANT TO SLOW DOWN, to make sure he made NO ERRORS, those time bonuses would disappear, and then he would not have a stat sig split and his bogus Learning Disability (LD) would disappear.</p><p></p><p>The school psychologist--who was competent but under pressure to find ex-difficult child Learning Disability (LD), looked at me and said, "I take your point, that won't be necessary." Statistically significant splits that are produced by one score being extraordinarily high should not be a basis for concern when compared to an "adequate" score.</p><p></p><p>Your daughter MIGHT have that type of benign split based on the VIX and the NIX only--but that subtest at 25 with a mean of 50 and a s.d. of 10 is a problem. Sure, it's only one test--and not very good one at that from what I can understand, but you have other concerns in this area. I think her verbal memory should be evaluated thoroughly to try to figure what isn't "working" for her so a remediation strategy can be tried. Trust your gut--this is not inconsequential in my opinion.</p><p></p><p>Martie</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Martie, post: 13465, member: 284"] MM, I am not sure if you know this stuff--but someone won't, so I will write it. This test is TRYING to be hard to understand. The composite indices have a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of 15 or 16. The subtests have a mean of 50 and a standard deviation of 10. Therefore, everything that you report looks arithmetically Kosher to me (as best I can tell without a manual for the test.) The VIX is 4 points above the mean. The NIX is almost 2 standard deviations above the mean. This is LIKELY to be a statistically significant split. Are such splits important? They can be--or not and there are several ways to get them--some indicating problems and others being somewhat artifactual. The subtests are mixed. The verbals are not unusual because they are very slightly above the mean of 50, which, of course, yields a VIX very close to the mean also. Likewise, the nonverbal subtests are well above the mean (they would have to be to yield a NIX of 129) with both of them 1.5 standard deviations above the mean. Because it is statistically unlikely to be this way, the composite is even higher (almost 2 s.d. above the mean of 100.) The composite memory is the most interesting because it is a non-meaningful combination of one score that is 2.5 s.d. below the mean, and one that is one s.d. above the mean, yielding a composite that is almost a s.d. below the mean. If someone tells you an 88 with within normal limits--it is, but how your difficult child got there is not. There is a significant problem (2.5 s.d. below the mean is below the 2nd percentile on most norming samples) on one half of the composite and performance at the 68th percentile on the other. THIS difference would be stat sig and also very important in my opinion. Your daughter has a deficit in verbal memory that is quite pronounced. I think this is a problem given the high scores in other areas. Such discrepancies are called INTRAindividual differences, and can make the child feel "strange" about motivation because he/she can do well in some things but struggles with others. Examples from my kids' lives--one very bad--one interpreted badly but without meaning which shows that one cannot generalize about splits---it depends upon how it came about. When easy child was a toddler, she had a significant expressive language delay and was served privately 2X per week from age 18 months. I had a very good handle on what was going on because she had been evaluated by the best (Northwestern U. Sp/Language Clinic.) When she turned 3, the SD evaluated her. She scored a VIQ of 75 and a PIQ of 138. The ditz who evaluated said that she averaged out within normal limits (with a 63 point split!!!!) because the FSIQ was around 106. This is not OK--we moved out of this SD when they stood behind this nonsense. There was nothing average about her--she was VERY strong in nonverbal reasoning and having serious problems with verbally expressing what (it subsequently was shown) she knew--but couldn't get across to the examiner. To ignore this type of split is very incompetent of the examiner and would have very negative effects on the child. Ex-difficult child was evaluated to rule out Learning Disability (LD) (and ADHD) in second grade. He scored well above 145 on PIQ because he is blazingly fast and got every time bonus available AND mental math is also on the PIQ. He scored a VIQ of 120 giving him at least a 25 point split which by age 8 is stat sig. The SD used this "discrepancy" to "prove" he had an Learning Disability (LD) he didn't have because first, a VIQ of 120 suggests above average verbal skill--AND he was at or above grade level in reading. I told the school psychologist that if he were retested, and I told him it was VERY IMPORTANT TO SLOW DOWN, to make sure he made NO ERRORS, those time bonuses would disappear, and then he would not have a stat sig split and his bogus Learning Disability (LD) would disappear. The school psychologist--who was competent but under pressure to find ex-difficult child Learning Disability (LD), looked at me and said, "I take your point, that won't be necessary." Statistically significant splits that are produced by one score being extraordinarily high should not be a basis for concern when compared to an "adequate" score. Your daughter MIGHT have that type of benign split based on the VIX and the NIX only--but that subtest at 25 with a mean of 50 and a s.d. of 10 is a problem. Sure, it's only one test--and not very good one at that from what I can understand, but you have other concerns in this area. I think her verbal memory should be evaluated thoroughly to try to figure what isn't "working" for her so a remediation strategy can be tried. Trust your gut--this is not inconsequential in my opinion. Martie [/QUOTE]
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Martie, can you help me understand this?
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