Meeting with son and wife

[BusynMember]

K., his wife, is just like him. They are perfect together.

UPDATE: I talked to my ex, S's father. He is outraged and unsure as to whether or not to see him anymore either. He said that they don't call very often and he doesn't feel close to them, not even their boy (his grandson). I told him they probably have him on a schedule too and we both laughed. He thinks it could be true. When he goes to her house, she insists that he eat her Chinese food, although he is diabetic and it's not that good for him (and she is a surgical nurse). He didn't like that he wasn't supposed to tell me that S manufactures XXX. He thinks the secrecy bit is ridiculous.

My ex will probably keep seeing him. That's who my ex is. But nobody else will wonder about him anymore...lol.

 

[DDD]

Thanks for the clarification. Frankly I didn't think about gossiping. I just wondered if when he spoke untruths if she then turned to you and asked if you wanted the opportunity to address the issue or if she was silent. I'm glad that you felt comfortable with her present. That probably helps as you do your retrospective before you move on. Once again I apologize if my curiosity stepped over the boundaries but I felt the need to understand. Hugs DDD

 

[DammitJanet]

Mwm..well you are a better woman than I am because the little nastygrams he complained about would have been out in the open plain as day in front of the mediator right then and there verbally. I would have given the church something to talk about.

I just did a google for second largest church in the country and I can only say if it is what I found, it sounds odd to me. I cant even find a denomination linked to it anywhere on the website. Only thing I could find was something called Truthquest and that sounds very strange.

I would never speak to him again and if he calls, tell him he can talk to you when he makes an appointment five weeks in advance on a Sunday following the first Monday in May. If then.

 

[BusynMember]

Janet, you got it. It is non-denominational and NOTHING like any Christian church I have attended, and I have attended a few in my quest for an answer to "why are we here?"

K. did NOT ask me to explain myself. She hurled accusations and I let her because I wanted to find out what the estrangement had been all about and to challenge them may have cut this off early. I have to say, she seemed paranoid a b it. She thought that the family discussing her wedding was "gossip" rather than the normal talking people do in families. She also said it was "intrusive" that I dared to call their church for help with mediation. After all, it was THEIR church.

This was the only time the mediator actually stepped in and said that it made sense to contact the church and that they offered these mediator services for a reason. That shut her up on that issue, but I'm sure she was still angry. The more I vent about it, the better I feel. It just all seems so ridiculous...

 

[DammitJanet]

mwm...I say it again...you handled it better than I would have. After raising that ungrateful brat and then he dared talk to you that way? Oh heck no! I would have showed my big fat white butt...lmao. My butt may be fat and broke but I would have given him a good old fashioned tongue lashing. I want to say slapped him but he would probably have you arrested...muttering to myself.

Im so mad for you. I really am. I hate ungrateful adult kids who think they are better than the ones who raised them. Blegh.

 

[BusynMember]

Janet, thanks for your support...lol. Trust me, I wanted to call out the silliness. I wanted to ask WTH did he archieve the nastygrams for...lol. I agree with my daughter in law...he did it to remind himself to be angry and unforgiving. He never did bring up the many NICEgrams I sent...lol. And I didn't question K. when she blurted out (tears and all) how horrible it is for a child to pay all the bills. I certainly do agree with her about that...lol. The thing is...he didn't...lol.

Thanks for the laugh

 

[DammitJanet]

I wonder if in China kids pay bills for their parents? Might be worth a google search. Isnt that one of the places with awful child labor? Wouldnt surprise me a bit if the kids have to take the money back to the parents and hand it over. Hmmmm....Im smelling one last nastygram.

Charging kids to pay their own portions of insurance isnt making them pay bills. Also asking them to buy their own clothes when they can afford it and have a job isnt abuse. Heck, I have borrowed from mine a time or two when they were working just to get gas. Its called being a member of the family.

 

[Hound dog]

Its called being a member of the family.

That's the part he can't "get", Janet. And I've known enough chinese casually that their working children often do contribute to the family funds if there is a need. Works just like every other family unit.

I'd have had my say in front of that mediator for sure while I had the chance, with his wife present to hear all. I don't deal well with this sort of outright disrespect, I admit. And even if he never felt he belonged with you, he was wrong in every way possible to disrespect you to the nth degree for years. You loved him, nurtured him, fed him, clothed him, gave him a decent place in which to grow up, educated him........let's be realistic, he would not be where he is today if it had not been for your loving home. Period. I'm sorry, I'd have had to knocked him down a peg or 100 while I was there, just to get it off my chest.

As for the nastygrams, phht, he deserved them. Heaven above knows I've written more than my fair share over the years.......and I'm not gonna apologize for a single one. At the time the situation called for it, if they don't like it now, tough luck. And yeah, he kept them to prove to himself what awful people you supposedly are. But I'd have had to tell him buddy if that's the worst you've got to work with, then you're certainly a sorry piece of work.

Like Janet, I guess I'm mad for you. All those years of hurt he caused because you thought that maybe you'd done something to him. phht. This is all his issue, all his own sense of warped reality and need to control. Trust me, I spent a lifetime with a very similar female version of him.

Maybe that's why I'm so touchy about this. It hits a old sore spot with me.

Hugs

 

[BusynMember]

Thanks.

Actually, although I certainly would never expect this from my own kid, I knew a woman from Hong Kong who worked at a nearby restaurant. She told me that the kids from Hong Kong (which is where he was born) take care of their parents. I also don't think that if S. pitched in once or twice it's the end of the world, but Houng Dog YOU NAILED IT. He doesn't understand what it means to be in a family. People talk about each other. They get angry and forgive. Sometimes kids help out when times are tough because they love their family. They have a safe haven with their loved ones. K. gets it and has that with her family, but God only knows what she has been told about the rest of us. I hang this on him and, realizing he is not a family member, will move on.

There was no point in speaking my piece in the meeting. I had to go alone (for a reason, of course). Maybe, if he does call me...haha, I'll agree to meet him one more time and then tell him what's on my mind. But I think it's best to let it go. If I thought speaking my feelings would dent those two, I would have. Clearly all the pain I had, shown in the letters, didn't do it so why would speaking my mind?

 

[AnnieO]

MWM...

I have not read all the replies... But I just wanted to send you lots of hugs.

 

[DammitJanet]

Well...I am just mad for you so maybe that makes you feel better. After all, sometimes we havent always seen eye to eye and if I can be as mad for you as I am, then you know its pretty bad...lol. I want to find my way up there and kick his high and mighty tail to kingdom come! The fact that he has my beloved name just makes me more upset!!!!!

 

[BusynMember]

Janet...actually I think we see eye to eye more than you think...lol.

Also, I admire you for having overcome such a horrible childhood and think you're a great mom!

I truly am grateful for your support. It is very appreciated. I spent five years thinking it was all me. It's nice to know that everyone does not agree with that, even after I laid out the worst that I did (the letters).

 

[Estherfromjerusalem]

MidwestMom, I have read through all the replies and quite honestly I don't think I can add anything to what everyone has said. I just want to tell you that I think your reaction is very wise, and very noble and dignified. He has truly behaved abominably. It's interesting how our difficult children see things from their own angle and it is so different from how "normal" people see things. My difficult child also often says what a dreadful family we are, how we don't know how to relate to one another and support one another. And surprise surprise! The whole rest of the family (which today includes altogether 8 children, 6 of them married, 23 grandchildren one of whom is married, and one greatgrandchild) are not only satisfied with our family ambience, but even say often how great it is when we get together etc. etc. and how lucky we all are to have one another. And yet my difficult child (who is not as extreme as yours) doesn't see that, and is very happy that he has taken himself to the other side of the world. He's in Australia, just about making ends meet, and yet very pleased with himself. He hasn't got a clue how happy he has made me, that our home is now so quiet and peaceful and that I just don't have to take him into consideration. I realise this doesn't compare with your situation, but there are some slight similarities.

I would just hope that I would be able to comport myself with a similar dignity to how you have behaved if I were ever faced with a similar situation. In my eyes you are Number 1 Mom!

Love, Esther

 

[DammitJanet]

I have to be thankful that while I can fight within my family with my kids, when the chips are down, we lock ranks. I was always afraid of what happened with you but it hasnt happened. It would devastate me and I think you are handling it so well. Your medications and your therapy have got to be working amazingly. Again...hats off because I would be a mess.

 

[Shari]

My letter to S


S (Dear was left off intentionally),

My friend, MWM, used to be your mom. You know, the one who picked YOU over all the others in the orphanage that day. She loved you and nurtured you with all she had. Its unfortunate that it wasn't good enough for you.

Maybe you should have stayed in the orphanage until someone like Susan Smith felt compelled to adopt again.

It could have been worse.

I am glad she had a chance to listen to you from your pedastal last week. I am glad she now realizes she's a great mom to 4 great kids.

I feel sorry for YOU.

Sincerely,

Me

 

[BusynMember]

Janet, I haven't seen S. for five years and the "mess" that was me has already passed. Why do you think I wrote him letters? LOL. Trust me, I wanted to give them both a piece of my mind, but, if I had done that, they may have walked out without giving me the details of what they were angry about...with K. saying she was "afraid" of me (lol)...and I knew pretty early in the meeting that this was going to be the last meeting.

The tremendous support I am getting from my hub, my kids, my ex, you friends here...that has really helped.

I do take my medications faithfully and go to therapy. But it doesn't always work...lol. This time, I guess I was too shocked at what they said and demanded of me, for the honor of marginally being in their lives, was so outrageous that I couldn't even feel sad. I walked out of there feeling "wise, as if a light had gone on" (if that makes sense). I knew, in my heart, that this child, who we adopted with such joy and happiness, does not consider himself a part of us and that I would be smart to walk away and not look back. Since he had been out of my life for five years, it was a lot easier.

I am positive my other children would never do anything like this. Sadly, the bond of having a child from a VERY early age is very important and makes a relationship more resilient. I believe that six years old is too old for most children to form a strong family bond (at least in the child's eyes).

Janet, I'm sorry you felt I didn't value your advice. In fact, I LOVE your answers and have always valued your advice and you are kind of a role model for me...someone with the same diagnosis who is living in peace with hub, kids and grandkids. The reason I don't usually answer your posts is because your issues are usually not things I am familiar with. But I feel you have done an outstanding job with your loving family. Bless you! You bring much wisdom and strength to this board!

 

[nvts]

Hi Honey! Sorry I'm on so late...personally? Being the little New Yorker that I am? I want to head up and kick some...well, you know where I'm going with THAT one!

My personal opinion? Aspie, aspie, aspie - and that's what he needs...a good, kick in the aspie! I'm also thinking NPD (narcissistic personality disorder)...he's very much along both lines. Lack of empathy (aspie) and the "I'm better than the rest" mentality (NPD)...it fits.

My suggestion (I really do think that walking away is best for all involved)? Go get yourself some helium balloons - the latex ones with a long string...write notes to him and to God...clear your conscience, your mind and your soul of ALL the things you wish you could say, tie them along the strings (several on each string). Once you've finished that - release them into the air...let the wind carry your burden high, far and away. It will be symbolic AND cathartic all at once.

We love you, your family loves you and S just isn't capable. Not because of anything you did to him, it's what's INCAPABLE in him. Not your fault!

Beth

 

[flutterby]

MWM - I'm so glad you are feeling better about this. You are a great mom and do not deserve this. I also agree that speaking your piece to him wouldn't do any good - and would probably only give him more "ammo" (I used quotations because what he has is full of **it).

I'm glad you got closure. I know this has weighed heavily on your for a long time. It's too bad that S refuses to realize what a great mom he has and doesn't realize how lucky he is, but that is his loss.

 

[BusynMember]

I am touched and speechless by the outpouring of support. I must remember to be as good a friend as all of you have been and to visit the Watercooler more often. If there is anyway I can, I will make the Chicago trip to be with my friends. If I can't, there's always next year.

Bless all of you. You are all wonderful.

 

[susiestar]

I am as mad as Janet is. S needs an attitude adjustment - most likely with a 2X4 to be sure the adjuster has his attention. I am glad you were not devastated by his insanity and coldness. I really admire the way you handled things during the meeting. I would have blasted him or been so furious that I cried. (I HATE it when I get mad and cry - drives me nutsier!) I do think that you need to send a letter to the person who supervises the mediation program. The "mediator" did NOT handle this well. At the very LEAST she should have stopped him and asked him to listen to your side and the htings that he did to hurt YOU.

I know you see that he has a happy life, great child, wife that is his perfect match and the respect of his church and community.But it just isn't reality. He puts forth that front and bullies his wife and anyone else near him into going along with it so that he can feel superior to everyone. At the very least, S is a huge bully - and not just to those outside of his home. HIs wife may seem just like him, and they probably feed off of each other, but no way is she going to be able to ever "please" him the way he thinks she is supposed to.

He has something seriously wrong with him and it is NOT because anything you did or did not do. You are a great mom and the female head of a very strong, happy family.

I do think the head of the mediation group needs to know that K did NOT stop him or ask if what he said was really the way it happened, or any other things that might have helped to create a better outcome. K needs some more training if this is the way she thinks a safe and healthy mediation is supposed to go.

((((((((((hugs))))))))))