Money for grandchild college & questions

Discussion in 'Family of Origin' started by Nomad, Apr 6, 2016.

  1. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    I see there was a post about not disinheriting your child and there was some discussion of inheritance money.

    Our state has a pre paid college program. I can purchase 1-4 years of college for my grandchild at the cost of today's tuition for him to use at the appropriate time. The concept is that today's rate would be much less than later. I thought about using some of my inheritance money to buy two years of college for this child (age three) and when our son and his wife have a second child, buy two years of college for this child too.

    They work hard but make a very average salary. My thought was that this way, no matter what the future holds, I would always know that I helped out my grandchildren through college as well as relieved my son and his wife of some of the financial burdens that goes with that period of time.

    Our son is quirky, but super productive and not a difficult child. He does have issues with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD). He is a hard worker and has won awards at his job. He is a an excellent parent and has several good friends. I'm proud of him. Thoughts? Pros and cons?

    Also, how does one begin to participate in this FOO forum? Would it be appropriate for me to start a thread with a little info about my Family of Origin?

    Thank you.
     
  2. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    FOO operates like all the other forums.
    You are welcome to start your own thread, or tap into another on-going discussion.
     
  3. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    What happens if they don't go to college?
    Can one child use both funds?
    If neither child goes, is there some sort of refund system?

    Otherwise... I think it's a nice idea on the part of grandparents.
     
  4. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    If the child doesn't go to college, I can ask for the money back. I think there is almost no interest. So, in my case, if I did both at age three, it would be 15 years of a minuscule amount of interest if someone didn't go to college.

    However, it is transferable to the other child, with some time restraints.

    That is actually a good perk when there are two children. At least some would be transferable.

    Chances are high at least one will do all four years.
     
  5. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Hi Nomad. I will look for your new thread. Welcome.

    I am thinking about the prepaid tuition plan. I am wondering if it is a good deal or not.

    Some presidential campaigns are talking about free public school tuition. How likely that is, I do not know. But something has to be done about the ballooning student loan debt.

    There are ways that kids who want to get education. Even having the prepaid tuition does not insure the kids avail themselves of it.

    I think it boils down to you and what makes you feel you have done "right". So you can rest easy and no you have done the right thing.
    Another possibility would be to leave the money directly to your son, to use as he decides. That way control of the money would stay with you as long as you live, and then afterwards, would be controlled by your family. Buying the tuition gives the money to the State. I do not know the provisions about its return if not used.

    Probably It can be refunded, without inflation protections or interest, but I do not know.

    I have an attorney who has advised me, but in the end, it is really hard to know what to do. I followed his advice pretty much entirely but still think I did the wrong thing. None of my options, I liked.

    Nomad, how is your daughter doing?
     
  6. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Nomad. Is there enough money to outright buy a small property, which you can have managed by a property manager? The income from the property would pay tuition for both children and their will still be the equity that could be used for large down payments for the kids to buy homes.

    Where I live there is a State University. Real estate prices dropped a whole lot during the downturn. Parents were buying houses for their kids to live in while they studied.

    I know this is a big batch of responsibilities you do not need (or want) but in terms of potential for the money, I think it could be greater.
     
  7. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    Small property? Like a duplex?
     
  8. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Maybe.

    I have no idea what conditions are like anywhere except where I live. Many people, maybe most would not want to either put in the work, or take the risk.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
  9. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    :O)

    In a way, you have begun, already. A warm welcome, Nomad.

    We were never to learn why posting about FOO issues worked for us as it did. I am thinking it has to do with the bilateral nature of keyboarding while reviewing traumatic memories.

    Like Thom Hartman's book about walking the blues away:



    Reviewing traumatic remembrances while exercising both sides of the body, so the current theory goes, seems to enable our brains to store traumatic memories differently.

    The trauma, though we still remember it, feels like it is in the past.

    PTSD is when our brains have stored traumatic events in such a way that emotions attending the original trauma can be re-triggered, in all their intensity, today. Everything about the event ~ the fear of the abuser, the shame of having been unable to protect ourselves, the hope of being perfect enough to see pride instead of disappointment in the eyes of the abusers we loved and wished for love from. The belief that somehow, what happened was our fault or was all we deserved ~ all those belief systems can be keyed by unrelated triggers in our lives now. When that happens, we misrepresent the nature of our own reality. We believe the present day abuser is right to feel as he or she does, or to say to us the things he or she says. We are forever ending things because they are not perfect, or because we have exposed too much and are ashamed to have been seen without defense. W

    This kind of thinking is where we work, here on FOO Chronicles. It is about what happened to each of us, but more importantly it is about how we think about what is happening in our lives today.

    How are we defining ourselves and the events of our lives today.

    How might we learn healthier ways to define ourselves in our futures.

    That is what we are doing. Maybe, we never had to confess to the shaming things. Maybe, studying healthy response, and determining to require ourselves to change the way we respond to the events in our lives is enough.

    ***

    When traumatic memories are stored in a place in the brain having to do with the present, that, according to something I read and posted here for us somewhere back in the FOO Chronicles threads, is how PTSD may have its effects. Something flashes and keys the traumatic memory, and the brain replays and replays it as though it is happening now.

    There is a vulnerability in posting on a public forum.

    I would do it again in a heartbeat. The fulcrum of my healing process is exploring and exposing contempt, the shame it was covering, and the abandonment/mortality issues underlying all of it. We all deal with these issues. Those of us raised as I was will not have been given the tools required to cope successfully. In the act of prioritizing and writing, in a coherent fashion, about what I learn, I am ordering my brain in the new way we discussed in the paragraphs above. I am able to hold a post until I am ready to post it. I retain control in the sense that I may decide not to post it at all. But there is something about that final step of posting that names us to ourselves. It has to do with the power those secret things hold over us because they are secret. Posting is choosing ourselves over our secrets. But, as was noted in the commentary on the appropriateness of FOO Chronicles on a site like Conduct Disorders, posting on a public forum leaves us vulnerable.

    Radical compassion. To drink our tea as though the Earth itself turns on our joy. (That is paraphrasing Thich Nhat Hanh.)

    ***

    Just that intention to hold ourselves with Radical Compassion, however we feel or whatever we have been twisted into believing about ourselves down where no one can see, will change everything about how we define ourselves and our worlds.

    I think posting about our own processes is helpful, but I don't know that the kind of self exposure I have engaged in is necessary for everyone. I do feel it was necessary for me. There would have been no other way to address the shame in it without re-traumatizing myself.

    I think that is true.

    Protect yourself first, Nomad. Protect your anonymity, cherish your privacy, and determine to heal.

    The results are amazing.

    ***

    Right now, I am having a look at what fuels perfectionism. At the core of it, for me, is that concept of external (versus internal) locus of control.

    Perfectionism seems to be when we have identified so completely with the abuser that we monitor our imperfection continually. Because I do that, I always fall short of expectation. I could never not fall short, because I slide in and raise the expectation bar right into the realm of accusations of arrogance. Or I condemn myself mercilessly based not on performance, but on outcome.

    Either way, I am condemned. Either as inept, or as arrogant.

    I need to learn (I am learning) to balance both sets of expectations through employing the concept of Radical Compassion.

    Prior to the work we've done here, the filter was not compassion, but ~ I don't know. Some feeling having to do with my mother's eyes.

    ***

    I like this idea, Nomad.

    Cedar
     
  10. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    This is a lovely summary of my ideas, Cedar. Thank you for remembering them and acknowledging their value.
     
  11. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Hi Nomad. Welcome. Yes indeed, you have already started. It is so nice to see other sister or brother warriors post here.

    I posted in FOO because the deep feelings from dealing with my two brought to surface memories of my past and I realized that I needed to work through them. It was good to write things out and receive responses, what it came down to was a validation of how I felt, how those feelings effected me in the past and throughout my life.
    Sometimes, I would write things out and ponder over them, edit and evaluate, then post.

    There was something very cathartic and freeing about being able to review those old feelings, write them and have people comment and give opinions, encouragement and share resources.

    Though some may feel, and it has been written that FOO seemed a bit clique-ish, I think that what occurred, was that a few folks were intent on delving into very personal issues with their FOO that they recognized as effecting them, and ventured to explore and work through those issues.
    They had been working together for months, so of course they were close knit.

    It may seem like this work only adds to the intensity of what we are dealing with our d cs, but it was that which brought me to FOO. The grieving and processing what was happening to my two, dug a mine shaft through the core of me, that went all the way to my past. Old feelings bubbled up that I could not ignore.

    I happened upon FOO and saw the work being done and posted here. At first I was a bit hesitant because my issues were very different from what was being discussed, and I did sense a close bond had been established within the FOO forum. I wondered if I " fit" in, and felt that maybe I was being somewhat intrusive.

    I was most welcomed here and though I was at the beginning of my journey, Cedar, Copa, SWOT and Insane, sometimes other members would add their thoughts and encouragement. I am most grateful for that.

    Working through my feelings and acknowledging my inner child was and is a way to discover, embrace and build on myself, something that I feel is essential for all human beings, but especially for parents in our situations, dealing with issues with our beloved children.
    I think folks could benefit from writing here even if they don't feel they have issues with their FOO, reminiscing about the good times they had growing up.

    It is my understanding that our selves as children live within us, and it is healthy to recognize that and the need to heal and embrace that inner child by finding activities that bring us joy and playfulness into our lives.

    Family of origin.

    How much does our upbringing and experiences shape us and affect us?
    Are there memories that come up that we haven't thoroughly processed? Whether the memories bring joy or sorrow, pride or shame, they are still very much a part of us.

    It may feel for some, like a betrayal of their FOO, to dredge up the past and write of it here. In my case, I had been told so many times by my FOO that I was making something out of nothing, and that I should just forget about the past, move on. But, the past kept haunting me, and as I processed what was going on with my two, I saw the need to process those feelings that kept surfacing. I would bring things up with my family, but it was never met with encouragement to discuss, there were sighs and rolling eyeballs, and a "there she goes again" attitude. I love my family, but there was something that existed inside of me that needed to be heard, and was repeatedly rejected and trivialized. I don't think I would have ever talked with a therapist because of this. I felt silly and ashamed, just kept going and swallowing the hurt of it, pushing it down until the wall I had built around it came crumbling down with the grief over my two.

    My apologies, this is turning into a looooooong post.

    What I learned here through posting my story and the kindness of our fellow sister warriors, was that I was carrying so much inside of me, the biggest part being SHAME. It wasn't shame about what happened to me, I was ashamed of how I felt about it. I had been taught to feel this way. I was not only carrying the trauma of my childhood, I was carrying this intense jumble of feelings and the biggest hurdle I had to overcome was my feeling ashamed for my feelings.
    I had been taught from a young child that my feelings were incorrect, I was to toughen up, swallow everything that was happening and be brave. That even effected me as I posted and processed here on FOO, and it was work to get to a place where I realized what I needed to do all along was validate my own feelings for my own sake, for myself. That was possible, because as we all shared our stories and worked together, we moved from piece to piece. The others that began this forum were way ahead of where I was on my own journey, but they were so very kind to share what they had already experienced, to back track and help me, even as they were intensely working through their own pathway.

    I am in a certification class for work and speakers have come to instruct us. My FOO issue was constant targeted bullying from my older siblings. I have been told " sisters and brothers always fight, it is sibling rivalry" This was of another level, daily and brutal. My home was not safe for me.
    We had a bullying workshop and the instructor asked if any of us had been bullied. If I had not done the work here in FOO, I do not think I would have said anything at all, shame, embarrassment, fear of rejection all would have stopped me from commenting. I raised my hand and shared what happened to me as I was growing up. The instructor commented on how sibling bullying is a more recent focus in the field and professionals are studying and writing papers on the damage it causes. I thought that I must have been the only one. No one else shared.
    But.....after class, a few of the students came up to me, and spoke about their own experiences.
    I wonder if this is the phenomenon that may be occurring here, with CD, that people are hesitant to bring up their FOO issues.
    Maybe that is why FOO does not have so much traffic?
    Maybe folks are concerned with privacy issues and also that if their FOO ever read the things written here, they would feel awful.
    I felt that way about some of my posts, especially when I was angry and went into blurt mode..... but you know what?

    It was not about them.

    Well you know what I mean, it was and it wasn't.


    It is about working through my feelings and figuring out how to become a whole person. It is about finding my value and self worth, knowing that I matter, and striving to become who I am, and embracing that.

    That is not a selfish endeavor. It is self searching and healing.

    I love my FOO dearly. I am more able to move on from my past, acknowledge and grow from it.

    Though this is a public forum and there is concern about being vulnerable, learning to embrace even vulnerability was part of what I learned on my journey here.

    I would encourage everyone to post here in FOO, wherever the memories take you, it is an amazing experience.

    In the midst of working through and processing all the feelings that we face while dealing with our gifts from God, if the past keeps coming up, it is most worth our while to acknowledge and review what our minds and bodies are presenting.

    If anyone is hesitant to post here, please do not feel that you are not welcome.
    Everyone is welcome.

    This forum is here for a very good reason.
    We are not only working on solutions and support for parents of young children with conduct disorders and adult children with issues.
    We are also working on how to be our best selves. As our best selves, we are better parents to our young children, better able to work through the issues that d cs go through, and in turn we go through as well.
    Being our best selves helps to break through the cycle of enabling, towards healthy loving detachment.

    If one is still hesitant to post on FOO due to privacy concerns, but old feelings resurface, I encourage those to find a therapist to work through the feelings.

    Our feelings about our FOO are real and have effected us so much in all we do.

    It is very healing and freeing and opens up a whole new perspective on living the rest of our lives.

    Sorry it is another "book" post for me.........

    Thank you to all those that helped me on my FOO journey.

    :grouphugg:
    Welcome Nomad, and anybody else reading along!

    Leafy
     
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  12. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    I will definitely have to review these posts!

    A few things...in terms of the political climate and the small chance in the future college will be paid for by the state, I think that is, again, only a small chance BUT if it does happen, I think it might be more likely to be universally accepted as free tuition in the community colleges. Therefore, I could almost accidentally pay for all of my grand children's four year degree in this potential scenario by pre paying for two years at a university.

    Yep, I've thought of buying real estate as an investment and kinda sorta of have some plans on a small scale....but not exactly in the way you described, Copa.

    I didn't realize the full impact of my FOO until my father died about 4-5 years ago. Yes, I've blocked the year out. It was gawd awful. My youth was pretty tough filled with abuse, mental and physical, from my narcissistic father, my own illnesses ..etc. I was shocked out my mind when we decided to adopt (after being gravely I'll with my first pregnancy) and then ended up with a Difficult Child. It just never seems to end...it's always something. I was angry for years. People would actually marvel at how much hubby and I had on our plates.

    I will likely post more.

    Right now I'm in a mini crisis. Some insanity is occurring with our attempt to purchase a tiny condo for our Difficult Child. Her behaviors of late have been ever so slightly better, by the way. Anyway, the seller lied on the contract...it is just completely nuts. I hope it can get resolved....probably do NOT wish to discuss this on open forum.

    My health is at a crossroads . I have a blood disorder. One component is measuring very low...for privacy sake I'm not saying exactly what it is. It's all part of having autoimmune issues.

    I've had this issue on and off for decades. But, I can't take the usual treatment for it due to a medical complication. So, I might need a new tx for me involving an IV medication for many many hours as an outpatient. I'm a little uptight about it all and if I had to be honest, fed up with "health problems!"

    At times I've wondered if my difficult childhood in any way, shape or form contributed to my health problems in my youth or my problems today.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
  13. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

  14. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Miss KT's entire college tuition was paid through a trust her father's parents set up when she was born. I was very grateful it was there for her, especially after her father (aka Useless Boy) cashed in his portion of the policy. Yeah.

    Knowing how much it helped me, Hubby, and Miss KT, I would love to be able to set something similar up for our grands. Not quite there yet financially, though. I think it's a wonderful thing you want to do, Nomad. Very generous and very helpful.
     
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  15. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    Insane...I was going to make a little correction. Yes, both my childhood stress AND the stress of raising a Difficult Child surely could influence healthy negatively. This is why I spent years angry at my Higher Power. Just couldn't believe that as things were improving leaving a crazy household, and being very fortunate and perhaps wise to fall in love with a kind man, we somehow adopted a Difficult Child !!!! Got little reprieve.

    KTmom....Those grandparents sound wise. And very kind of you to mention this. I phoned the pre paid folks today and went over all sorts of crazy scenarios. It seems nicely covered and ironically, doing two years instead of four might be the better choice in our particular case. My son is a SAVER! He will have the money. And if our grandson gets a full scholarship the money will be reimbursed to me at the future rate of tuition...so that would actually be a fairly decent investment! And if he doesn't go to college (doubtful) his younger sibling can use it...although I plan on getting two years for the next one too. They will have a 10-12 year period of time to use it. I was surprised how well thought out the program is. It is a nice little insurance policy for the future.
     
  16. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    Something I think Insane said...I'm sorry there was so much good info. here, I lost track of who said it. It stuck with me.

    Can stuff from our FOO influence us today? And of course the main concern would be if it had a negative influence.

    I mentioned that my narcissist father was both physically and mentally abusive. And of course was a strict disciplinarian...this is an understatement.

    I was kind of strict...I relied a LOT on time outs.

    But our son and daughter in law, are not strict. They mostly just speak firmly to our grandson when he misbehaves. Sometimes, they will withhold a video. Very very rarely will they give a time out.

    I think I need to have faith that since they are the parents they know what they are doing. A time out every five minutes is probably unproductive.

    I'm trying to open my heart and mind to a different way of thinking...without giving up my intellect...just being open.

    My parents, particularly my father was cruel and abusive.

    I was strict and often authoritative.

    They are something different. I wish to be open minded. I think what I'm observing is absolutely FINE, although my knee jerk reaction was concern. Concern they aren't being strict enough. I thought to myself the other day "why do you think this?" Then it hit me it could be left over junk from my FOO! Hmmm.

    I wish to keep an open mind....and I feel peace. :)
    Hope this makes sense.
     
  17. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    The loss of a parent is one of those thresholds we cross in life, isn't it? I am sorry it was so awful. My dad passed three years ago after a six year battle with several illnesses, it was a very rough time in my life, especially coupled with dealing with d c issues.

    Having a narcissistic father.... Ouch. What a terrible thing to go through Nomad. This must have caused a lot of mixed feelings. My Dad had his issues, very stoic and quiet, but for the most part I am thankful for the things he taught me.
    A child should feel loved, safe and secure. I am sorry. Plus illness. You had a difficult life my friend. Narcissism is complex. There are quite a number of threads discussing it here on FOO....others issues with dealing with parents, comments about it as well as a number of informative articles. You may want to look at some of those older threads.
    That is harsh Nomad. Did the challenges manifest early on or later? Whatever the case may be, I am sure you did the best you could as a loving mom.
    Life does have a way of throwing obstacles at some more than others it seems. I often say "Lord, you must think I am stronger than I feel." We have had our fair share with hubs health issues, two d cs and grands in the mix.
    Yes, I know this feeling. My close workmates are pretty astounded at the challenges I have had and have. It is an ongoing series of events........What can we do but take one day at a time and trudge on through. "There by the grace of God go I"........I know that there are many people who have faced far worse and come through. It was here on FOO that Copa introduced Viktor Frankl, and Cedar wrote of finding mentors to guide us such as Maya Angelou. I was helped tremendously by reviewing quotes and Ted talks from YouTube, focusing on ways to build up, explore different perspectives and carry on.
    Post when you can, whatever comes to mind. Nothing is trivial if it surfaces. Sometimes the memories come in bits and spurts. Some were familiar, others surprising.
    One of the biggest questions we looked at was if our memories were real or not. Cedar often asked "Who is the liar" and for me that has to do with measuring how we feel, what we remember, versus how we were raised, the trauma of it, the reactions of family members, in the past or present, and a whole slate of questions that come up in the process. Oh dear, Cedar has a much better way of explaining things.....
    Legal issues, oh my. There are some unscrupulous folks out there. You don't need to go into detail, but do let us know how you are managing. I am sorry, Nomad.
    Oh dear. Yes, ongoing health problems can be discouraging and difficult. I hope it is resolved with the treatments. Sometimes that is harder than the illness.......
    There is so much information about the ill effect of stress on the body. How much more so for a child growing up in a harsh setting with no where to turn? So young, having to develop ways to cope. I have read a lot about childhood trauma, hubs father was extremely abusive to his wife and family. Children in this situation cope by "numbing", it is survival. So, what happens is, the events are stuffed down, most are not processed, but find ways to surface.
    I believe we are greatly influenced by our FOO. It is a part of us, every experience, good or not so good. It's like listening to an old song and suddenly we are brought back to the time and place we remember hearing it.
    I think we are subconsciously reviewing all facets of our lives.
    It is tapestry intricately woven, so many colorful threads of memories, some readily visualized, others, hidden. When painful memories come up, it is up to us to either choose to work through them or not. It is not easy, questions open up more questions. We cannot turn back the hands of time, but we can review our past, walk through it and learn more about ourselves. It opens up a whole new perspective, allowing us to look at ourselves through our own eyes, instead of the eyes of our abuser. We were taught things about ourselves that were not true. What could we do when we were little children but try our best to survive it? If we grew up thinking a certain way about ourselves, those labels are still with us and effect how we feel about ourselves and how we deal with life.
    Now, as adults we can look back and guide our child selves through those storms of the past that were stuffed down, review incidences and rebuke those lies. That is the freeing part.
    When folks respond, they become our witnesses.
    That is how it worked for me. After so many years of knowing things weren't quite right in my childhood, never having the chance to really delve into it, then working at it here on FOO, I was able to process so much that had been there cycling and surfacing and effecting my life and how I felt about myself...........
    When the spirit moves you, post away. I will look for your threads. It may take some time for me to respond, hubs is still in the hospital. But I will when I am able.
    I do hope that those reading along who have the inclination will join in. I think that is what worked so well, having a group dedicated to the effort.
    We all held each other's hearts and hands......for that, I am eternally grateful.
    I will be here for you Nomad.
    (((hugs)))
    leafy
     
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