Mother of an 8 year old out of control Aspergers child!

[Marguerite]

We've had a different approach to video games - we see them as a coping strategy for the child. It may not be the coping strategy we might choose, but we work within that boundary and get the child to begin to exercise some controls. For example, difficult child 1 would voluntarily hand me his controllers during school hours especially when he had work to catch up on. We also discussed with difficult child 3 that certain games made him more anxious if he played them after dinner, so we set limits (with his involvement) on when he could play them, and when he shouldn't. As he got older and felt he could cope, he approached us and asked us to trial changing the limits on those games.

Our current aim with him is to get him off games before midnight, preferably by 11 pm. He's expanded now in the electronic stuff that interests him, but because he knows we won't take it away, he is less anxious and insistent on "his rights" than he used to be. He has to learn self-control, we cannot spend our lives standing over him and being the policeman.

As a result we have far fewer fights. I'd like to see less gaming, but we are far more able to get him out of the house when we ask him to stop for a while. He knows he can always go back to it, I think that helps.

We have found that if we try to limit it, we have minimal success but the attempt seems to push the pressure to play computer games up even higher. I think the problem is chicken or the egg - I do not believe that computer games are the problem; Asperger's is the problem. Computer games are part of the symptom and to a certain extent, part of the child's chosen management strategy. Take away what they feel they need to do to cope, and you make a lot of problems a great deal worse.

Example - difficult child 3 is currently having a lot of trouble concentrating. I have also noticed an increase in computer use. Not so much gaming, but a range of things. It's not one thing, it's a few, including an increase in interest in creative outlets (3-D photography, for example) that use the computer. mother in law said to me that she feels the problem is caused by his computer use. However, I feel the increase in computer use is a result, not a cause. It's now looking like medication incompatibility is a major factor in difficult child 3's concentration problems.

So monitor computer use, try to direct it to educational games or some other more productive pursuit, and perhaps aim for calmer games before bedtime (games like Myst or Riven, quiet problem-solving role plays). But especially if it causes fights, I would put computer gaming in Basket C.

Marg

 

[HaoZi]

I use the parental controls on the computers and they're set that to require password after so much inactivity (in case I'm using it and walk away it limits her to just her user account). The computers kick her off at a set time every night, said time being my choice.

 

[keista]

Congratulations for telling the family to back off. It takes a of of strength to do that. Next time they try to "help". Ask if they'd be wiling to take your child for a week or twoand they can implement whatever LEGAL techniques they think you are lacking? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm? AND just like you, they are not allowed to 'raise a hand' to him. This usually shuts them up quite quickly. My "normal" Aunt who is trying to understand, but just can't, knows better - she's done after one day, but still goes back to her 'traditional' thinking.

I'm EXTREMELY laid back so allow/ed computers/video games/and TV all as 'needed'. Lucky for me it wasn't a 24/7 thing, but it could also be that it wasn't 24/7 because I allowed the freedom. Like Marg, if a game or show caused any kind of distress, anxiety or increase in bad behavior, it was curbed BUT my kids do have a different temperament.

 

[Snowenne]

I have tried to set time limits on my son for gaming. That never works. He just wants to play 24-7. If I try to limit I get a huge meltdown. If we let him play for a bit and then we need to go out. We can tell him, he will say ok but when the time comes to get off he flips out. So until I can find something that can give him some time but he wont flip out then yay. But that seems so far away atm Gratz to all who can control the time thier kids play
And as for my family it was easy. I never got along with any of them my whole life so this was the last straw. Past few days though have seem alot better without the computer

 

[TerryJ2]

Do you know how to use the circuit breaker in the back of the house? Just asking ... :0

 

[BusynMember]

To keista: I wasn't going to respond again, but your response to her was so awesome that I had to give my big thumbs up!

As for the gaming, I don't limit my son because he is on the autism spectrum and it calms and amuses him. I do insist he participate in outside activities, even though he never wants to go (once he gets there he is fine). Kids on the autism spectrum tend to have poor imaginations making it hard for them to know how to amuse themselves on their own. They often tend to just touch everything in sight if they have nothing to do, or start stimming (such as throwing a ball up and down for hours...to me, the touching and ball throwing is even less productive than the game playing). In fact my son has connected to many "friends" while gameplaying on his PSP3. For him, that is a good thing.

Part of why, in my opinion, my son is so good natured is that we know he is Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and allow him to be w hat he is. Right now he has school and then summer school five days a week to interrupt the gameplaying. When he is ready, he will have work. So that's just my .02 and what we do...keep us updated

PS--I'd go easy on the violent games too. My son dislikes any killing/shooting/violent games so I'm lucky that way.

 

[Snowenne]

I dont have a problem with him playing on the computer. I realize that that is what he enjoys and it for the most part keeps him calm. The problem I have is to get him off to either do something or to go to bed. I get such an attitude from him and he will get so mad at me that he will find something of mine to ruin. My son used to want to go out and play and used to be able to go out. I don't know what happened these past couple of years that made him go from ok to completly off the charts. I sometimes don't even want to talk to him because i'm tired of him taking my head off. Even the simplest suggestion or anything and he will completly take my head off.
I want to believe that he will get better but right now its not looking very good. Plus I am getting very ****** off at the fact that these doctors seem to think i'm pulling this out of my ass and wont help. I am at my wits end and I dont know how to help him when hes refusing everything.

 

[rejectedmom]

We had similar behaviors with addarall. For us and extended release tablet worked better and in HS difficult child had a very small dose of non-extended after school to get through homework etc. The doctor said it would help if the levels dropped gradually rather than all of a sudden and he was correct. I apologize if this response is redundant to something someone else has said as I didn't read through all 3 pages of responses. -RM

 

[DDD]

Welcome. I probably am duplicating previous suggestions but this is what comes to my mind. We have had experience with stimulant medications over decades (two generations of kids). We have used Ritalin, Adderal and Concerta. For us the Concerta worked best, lasted longer and had few side effects BUT it all depends on the child. With Ritalin and Adderal we had to give a supplemental small dose after school to avoid meltdowns. There is also a newer stimulant that my granddaughter takes and I can't think of the name. It works best for her but she also needs a small stimulant boost right after school or everything goes whacko! In our family that made a huge difference at home.

I can't recall if you referenced it but with our Aspie/ADHD kid mornings were rough. Gee, I hated mornings starting with confrontation etc. That problem was solved for us when I started getting up a bit earlier, bringing his pill, a drink and sometimes a snack into his room before he woke up. Since he didn't have to get up right away I was able to wake him up just enough to swallow and then leave him alone for another thirty minutes. The medication was in his system before he got up and his disposition was greatly improved.

I also found with him that my voice (and most noise) really could get him going. I not only learned to speak in a lower tone but I cut out the chit-chat alot. I started leaving easy short notes when appropriate and always ended with a smiley face or a heart. Sometimes that even irritated him, lol, but other times a written reminder was great.

Regarding the computer......I don't have an answer for that one. I tried using a timer that he could see next to the computer. Not. That one was tough. When he was younger I tried giving reward slips (taking his bath, laying out his clothes for the next day, brushing his teeth etc) to "cash in" for computer time. With him it didn't work well but for some others it might.

Rest assured you are not alone. Many of us have been there done that. If at all possible I would suggest that you try to schedule a full neuro/psychological examination. Ours took six to eight hours and was well worth the time and money. We got an insight that has been worth millions. Hugs. DDD

 

[Snowenne]

I'm not sure if the adderall is making him so aggresive. It did seem that shortly after we put him on he started to display these destructive behaviors. But to get him to take the medicine is a struggle in a half. So I dont want to put him on one that he will need to take more than once a day.
Mornings are rough. Its the same thing everyday, fight to get him to get changed and then fight with him to take his medications. Dont know what to do about him fighting with taking the medications. He refuses to take the pill whole so I have to open it and spread it on cotton candy ice cream (i know its bad but its the only thing that somewhat works) I have suggested to him once 'would you like to try a different way to take your medicine' and he tore my head off. ugh.
I have never heard of a neuro/physchological exam. What exactly does that do? I know I did ask if there was a place for him to go to be observed to see exactly whats going on with him. But im afraid too that doing something like that will really make things work.

 

[Marguerite]

I'm asking difficult child 3 for his opinion on this. "Out of the mouths of babes" sort of thing.

"First of all I would need to be following my own advice. As for the actual solution, I guess a reward system like we had, for getting off without arguing."

What we had - we would reward difficult child 3 for not having rages, by letting him have half an hour game WITH ME. Usually we played something simple like Mario Party, and he had to teach me how to do it. The reward thus was non-material and involved time we spent together with him doing what he liked - computer game. But having someone to play with was something he loved. You can set the character controls so you can be at "EASY" mode while you set his to match his ability. But there is also a strong chance component, so you do get to have fun.

You would need to sit down with him and discuss the problem. We found a therapist helpful in this. We explain that while gaming is fun, there are other thnigs in life that must happen. At the very least, sleep and food. And school. Then there are other things - getting dressed, donig chores etc. HE can't argue sleep, because it is a matter of scientific record that we need sleep in order to survive. He also will find that getting enough sleep improves his game skill.
Go all out, sell it to him. Explain that even looked at from a very selfish point of view, only from his game-playing point of view, he will find that getting to bed a an appropriate time will benefit him. He also needs to learn strategy, I suspect, to improve his gaming. And his life needs strategy too. For example, if playing a role-playing adventure, you get led on to the next phase and the next. Adventures never finish, they just proceed to the next level. And tis is deliberate; they entice you on. He needs to identify which games he is playing and when there is a chance of needing to stop, he needs to choose games where he CAN stop any time and know that when he returns, he can pick up where he left off.

For example, difficult child 3 got up this morning and began playing a game. But he had only half an hour before he should have stopped to begin his schoolwork. He NEVER stops in time, it is an ongoing problem. Anyway - I keep telling him, do not start a quest in anything when you have only ten minutes before school hours start. He is doing better with this, but it still needs work.

In the evenings - suggesting he play a different game, maybe enlisting his aid to make a list of games he could play at certain times of the day that he can stop if he needs to, for a few minutes to take the garbage out or go eat his dinner or have his bath - that can help. But involve him in the discussion, he needs to know why it is a problem for you and it needs to be his problem too.

Also explaining how him getting upset is only making you upset and more inclined to take the advice of people who say, "Stop him gaming!" which of course he will not want you to do. In order to be allowed to continue to have fairly free access to games, he needs to begin to show responsibility.

The games themselves will heighten their adrenalin and this can lead to an agitated "Not now! Leave me alone!" response when you remind them of a need to take a break. You need to ignore the impulsive responses and work towards helping him disengage. But he needs to own the need to disengage, at least discussed at times when he is able to talk about it with you.

Marg

 

[Snowenne]

Trust me I have tried. In his head he thinks that the only thing in the world is playing video games. If we dont allow him to play then he refuses to do anything because he wants the game back. When we have him playing the game getting him to do anything getting him to get off is just way too much of a struggle. I would love to find the balance but not right now. We have a visual timer, if we use that he will destroy it. If we set parental controls im afraid that the computer will get destroyed. However, seeing this forums I have been opened to alot of things. I looked into the neurofeedback therapy and I think that is something that might work for my son because its all done with computers. Im just afraid of the cost.

 

[Marguerite]

Neurofeedback therapy - my sister did this for her son back in the days before computers. They were given a lot of exercises by a physiotherapist and occupational therapist, they set up their garage as a combined playroom/therapy centre. Years later when I saw the Dore program, I recognised a lot of the same therapies. When aI did some digging I found that the founder had been through similar experiences to my sister; then got the bright idea to make money out of it. They use computers as an aide, but you can get almost the same stuff using a Nintendo Wii Fit balance board with related software. A lot cheaper and you have it at home to use every day. And yes, it is viable neurofeedback.

Expensive does not necessarily mean good, or even the only, option.

Marg

 

[Snowenne]

See, this is where i'm going with the neurofeedback. My son is digging his heals into the ground and stopping all help. From Kerrys place coming in (he runs and hides in his room until she is gone) She has never met him so cant start working with him. Im afraid that when we go to his first Occupational Therapist (OT) appointment that he will just refuse to participate. So I saw that the neurofeedback therapy is on computers. Biggest problem with my son is he wants nothing to do except play on computer. I think its just a way for us to knock down that wall and start helping him without him realizing what we are doing. Plus they find out the things that bug him that would probably take us years for him to tell us. Im thinking even just to have that first inital appointment to see what his brain is doing then we can go from there. Just thinking of a way he will let us help him. Hes very not wanting anything to do with anything right now. That at least we could get him there without a huge fight. (at least thats what I am thinking)

 

[DDD]

Neuro/Psychologial examinations are muti-faced and usually include from six to eight hours of testing and converations with a team of qualified Psychologists. There is no physical exam involved. The professionals who specialize in this testing break it up in increments so even hyper kids are able to complete the series. Often they will be paid for by the School Board if there is a history of problems functioning at school as well as at home. The report includes IQ, behaviors, personality, possible markers of learning disabilities or neurological problems, family history and the combined perspective of the team doing the examination. It was the single most valuable guide to our youngest difficult child's needs and also included an unexpected diagnosis. As always when seeking help it is best to research to see what group has the best reputation. In our case we traveled two hours away to make sure we were confident in the team. DDD

 

[Marguerite]

What I was suggesting with getting your own Wii Fit balance board etc, is to move neurofeedback therapy into your own home AND you get involved as well, so it's something you both do, together. The "together" thing might help him see that other people use computer technology too, it can be done as a social thing (and not solitary) plus it improves fitness plus a lot of it works exactly like the professional neurofeedback stuff that can cost you thousands and you only get to go once or twice a week. This way you can do it daily, or more often. And you do it at home, and he doesn't know it's therapy. Right now for us, we're trying to teach difficult child 3 some relaxation techniques because he's weaning off his anti-anxiety medications. He is very resistant to therapist showing him relaxation or breathing techniques, but on the Wii Fit, difficult child 3 gets very competitive. And I'm beating him on the "zazen" function, which basically involves sitting quietly on the balance board watching the candle flame on the screen (and coping with the deliberate distractions they put in - bugs flying closer and closer to the flame until they sizzle) and keeping your breathing and movement steady. Not sure if it's three minutes or five, but I aced this, difficult child 3 can't get past 30 seconds! So he has to keep trying, and he asks me for tips on how I do it. It's a lot of fun AND it is really helping him.

Total outlay - a few hundred dollars. But for the more expensive centres that you go to and use their equipment - limited access, and it can cost hundreds for each appointment.

Even if you go to the centre, the Wii Fit can be a way to consolidate it back at home, and boost the benefit.

I'm very much a fan of do it yourself if you can. We've had to be, because access to services is difficult for us. So we've really had to research alternatives that are cheaper and more accessible. Interestingly, since the Wii Fit came on the market here in Australia, the ads for Dore vanished.

Marg

 

[keista]

Another good toy for neurofeedback is the mindflex. It's not a computer/video game, but is very science fictiony. You put this thing on yur head which sends a signal to the base unit. You control the speed of a fan with your mind which keeps a small ball elevated, and then you have to make it go up and down to move through an obstacle course. Lots of ppl tried 'debunking' it by attaching the device to a wet rag or potato, but the wet rag or potato can't make the fan speed change. You can search youtube for videos of it.

 

[HaoZi]

What my daughter does is use the timer. She'll help clean or do homework or whatever for 10 or 15 minutes, then set the timer for the rest of the hour for her to play computer, Wii, etc.

 

[Snowenne]

We do have a Wii here just never really use it. But glad to know that I can do it a home. I will take anything right now. He's getting worse by the minute to the point that I dont want to talk to him anymore because I dont need my head constantly taken off. I would like to do the first initial exam with them to see what is going on in his brain and why is he getting worse by the second. Occupational Therapist (OT) starts today. Keeping my fingers crossed but I think its going to be a waste of time because my son just wont let anyone in.
What do you do when your child is just off the wall all day everyday?

 

[Marguerite]

With anything on the autism spectrum, sometimes you have to go where the child is and start from there. I worked this out for myself, then a school librarian suggested I read "Son Rise" and the dad who wrote that said pretty much the same thing.

So how about you begin with the Wii? Do it for yourself, do not go out of your way to engage him. Just get on the thing and have fun for yourself. But if he nags you to let him have a turn as well, let him. Use this to introduce turn taking - there are some fun things you can do, besides the fitness/neurofeedback stuff. difficult child 3 & I take turns on the balance games and try to beat each other's scores. But another really fun game for autistics/Aspies - somewhere in the ten pin bowling, I think it is in Wii Sports Resort, there is a 100 pin bowling option. Our family plays this one differently - it's really wild and these Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids love it - you try to knock over as FEW pins as possible. And you watch every pin, it's an amazing domino effect.

It seems to me you have two aims. First, to work on neurofeedback. Second, to find some way of connecting with him on his ground to begin with, so you can then use this connectedness to lead him a little at a time away from so much gaming.

In some respects, you may have to step right back and start at the basics with the autism aspects. Meet him where he is then lead him out gently. Read "Son Rise" if you can - hopefully it won't give you the whoopsies like it did me, to a certain extent. I got some good stuff out of that book but there were long passages that annoyed me a bit.

Marg