Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New profile posts
Latest activity
Internet Search
Members
Current visitors
New profile posts
Search profile posts
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
General Discussions
The Watercooler
Muchhausen's by Internet?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 421338" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I mentioned the flip side before - it is scary, because it is a nasty accusation that can stick. it does need to be checked out carefully, and can be, but there is room for corruption, sadly.</p><p></p><p>A case I knew of was fairly typical. The child had a diagnosis of a condition where a lot of doctors were believing that it was primarily psychological even though increasingly, it was recognised as a physical condition. The parents split up over differences of opinion of the child's needs - the dad said, "Pull yourself together," while the mother said, "He's doing the best he can. Talk to the doctor, he will explain."</p><p>The marriage split was nasty. The dad wanted to make a statement, so he found a different doctor (you can always find the one you want) who was prepared to say in court that the mother was Munchhausen's by proxy, on condition te dad signed the kid over for psychiatric treatment once he got custody.</p><p></p><p>And so it happened - the mother lost custody because protection authorities erred on the side of caution and took the child away until they could complete their investigation. The child, who was physically ill and depressed because of it, was ripped form his mother, placed with an unsympathetic father who then followed through and handed the child to a psychiatrist who had a bad reputation with our support network. The treatment was fairly barbaric - the kid was rewarded with access to his family, bedding, TV etc only if he denied his physical symptoms. A kid who successfully managed to lie about how he really was feeling, could eventually be discharged but the nightmare would continue. One girl I knew who went through this treatment was discharged back to her mother. The girl was told to not tell her mother any details about the treatment; her mother already knew, the girl was told, and was angry with the girl for being such a nuisance and would not want to be reminded. The mother was told she must send the girl to school even if she was claiming to be too ill to lift her head off the pillow. The mother told her daughter what the hospital told her to tell her, "Don't worry, if you feel you can't manage the whole day, call me and I'll come and get you. The school have been told to call me if you say it's too much."</p><p>In fact the school had been told by the doctor to actively NOT allow any such call. The mother had not been told this. So all day the mother waited, knowing from past experience that her daughter might perhaps manage two hours, no more. At the end of the day her daughter almost fell off the school bus, absolutely exhausted. "You lied to me!" the girl said. "You said I could come home if I needed to. But you never came to get me!"</p><p>This woman was able to sort the problem out. She also was divorced but her ex-husband was supportive of the daughter's diagnosis so it did not become a custody issue, as in the other case ZI mentioned. But it was the same shonky psychiatrist who had done the damage. And such is the nature of psychiatry, that we were unable to take any action against this doctor. Can you imagine the damage done to a kid taken form his mother inappropriately?</p><p></p><p>It is a tricky tightrope to negotiate. I also have been accused of Munchhausen's by proxy, when difficult child 3 was little. A local GP disputed the diagnosis publicly, used to discuss me and my family's medical details with my worst enemy, my stalker. I used to see them meeting for coffee, and soon after my stalker would write letters about me to other people, giving details that he should not have known but always expressed in terms of concern and sympathy, to make it seem like he cared. Very mischievous. It happened at a time when DOCS (our version of CPS) were sniffing around because of difficult child 3's language delay (which, because of my physical disability, people were blaming on me being weird). DOCS did a good job, checked things out, cleared me and then gave me some valuable referrals.</p><p></p><p>So I am wary of applying the label to others. But there is a huge difference between Munchhausen's, and someone who overdoes the sympathy and catastrophises illness in their child.</p><p></p><p>There is a clear distinction between Munchhausen's and hypochondria. Interestingly, the hypochondrium is a part of the anatomy just under the diaphragm. Doctors noted that women especially, would often report vague symptoms of discomfort in this area, and it became known as hypochondria. At the time they could find no cause, and so over time the name of the condition became associated with "She's hysterical, believes she is ill but is not really." Hysteria was believed to be connected to the womb, hence removal of the womb is called hysterectomy. </p><p></p><p>Someone who is a hypochondriac genuinely believes they are ill. The belief is very strong and sometimes reassurance form a doctor just is not enough. It is tricky to use this as a label because increasingly, there are cases of people who insisted tat something was wrong in the face of medical tests clearing them. Only later did they find tat the patient was right, there WAS something serious wrong. Doctors are learning to pay attention now, when a patient says, "I don't care what the tests say, something feels not right."</p><p></p><p>Someone with Munchhausen's, on the other hand, is deliberately faking and knows it. A Munchhausen's person often tries to get into hospital, usually by faking symptoms they have carefully researched. Sometimes you can get hypochondria and Munchhausen's together - a patient believes that something is wrong, doctors can't find it, so they fake a different illness in order to get into hospital and investigated, in the hope that this time the doctors will get it right. </p><p>However, in general, the Munchhausen's person is primarily attention-seeking rather than diagnosis-seeking. The main purpose in a diagnosis is to provide another label to hang the sympathy on. </p><p>For example, in the days of mercury thermometers, a patient might have a number of tricks to push the reading up. Applying it to a hot water bottle, for example, or rubbing the thermometer between their hands when the nurse is not looking.</p><p>Munchhausen's by proxy - the sort of things they can do, is give medication to their child that is not prescribed for them. Not, "I'm sure these stomach pills of mine will help your stomach bug feel better," but much more serious - grandma's heart pills given to a toddler in massive doses, for example, to deliberately cause heart arrhythmias and trigger an emergency reaction. Or a wound on a child's arm can be sent septic, by a mother deliberately inoculating it with a faecal sample. That is not hypochondria in any way. it is deliberate harm, purely to gain attention.</p><p></p><p>A Munchhausen's by proxy parent will seem dedicated, compassionate, patient, caring and as time goes on, increasingly panicked for their child. A parent who is genuine can appear the same - that is the tragedy. </p><p></p><p>Janet, I'm with you - I believe we have had a few more of these people slip below the radar on tis site, than perhaps we are aware. However, I don't think they last. There are probably better pickings for them elsewhere. However, we always need to be on our guard because the cost of someone slipping through the net and milking us for as much sympathy as possible, is a lot more tan just our time wasted. Sites like this can get killed off by this sort of behaviour. </p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 421338, member: 1991"] I mentioned the flip side before - it is scary, because it is a nasty accusation that can stick. it does need to be checked out carefully, and can be, but there is room for corruption, sadly. A case I knew of was fairly typical. The child had a diagnosis of a condition where a lot of doctors were believing that it was primarily psychological even though increasingly, it was recognised as a physical condition. The parents split up over differences of opinion of the child's needs - the dad said, "Pull yourself together," while the mother said, "He's doing the best he can. Talk to the doctor, he will explain." The marriage split was nasty. The dad wanted to make a statement, so he found a different doctor (you can always find the one you want) who was prepared to say in court that the mother was Munchhausen's by proxy, on condition te dad signed the kid over for psychiatric treatment once he got custody. And so it happened - the mother lost custody because protection authorities erred on the side of caution and took the child away until they could complete their investigation. The child, who was physically ill and depressed because of it, was ripped form his mother, placed with an unsympathetic father who then followed through and handed the child to a psychiatrist who had a bad reputation with our support network. The treatment was fairly barbaric - the kid was rewarded with access to his family, bedding, TV etc only if he denied his physical symptoms. A kid who successfully managed to lie about how he really was feeling, could eventually be discharged but the nightmare would continue. One girl I knew who went through this treatment was discharged back to her mother. The girl was told to not tell her mother any details about the treatment; her mother already knew, the girl was told, and was angry with the girl for being such a nuisance and would not want to be reminded. The mother was told she must send the girl to school even if she was claiming to be too ill to lift her head off the pillow. The mother told her daughter what the hospital told her to tell her, "Don't worry, if you feel you can't manage the whole day, call me and I'll come and get you. The school have been told to call me if you say it's too much." In fact the school had been told by the doctor to actively NOT allow any such call. The mother had not been told this. So all day the mother waited, knowing from past experience that her daughter might perhaps manage two hours, no more. At the end of the day her daughter almost fell off the school bus, absolutely exhausted. "You lied to me!" the girl said. "You said I could come home if I needed to. But you never came to get me!" This woman was able to sort the problem out. She also was divorced but her ex-husband was supportive of the daughter's diagnosis so it did not become a custody issue, as in the other case ZI mentioned. But it was the same shonky psychiatrist who had done the damage. And such is the nature of psychiatry, that we were unable to take any action against this doctor. Can you imagine the damage done to a kid taken form his mother inappropriately? It is a tricky tightrope to negotiate. I also have been accused of Munchhausen's by proxy, when difficult child 3 was little. A local GP disputed the diagnosis publicly, used to discuss me and my family's medical details with my worst enemy, my stalker. I used to see them meeting for coffee, and soon after my stalker would write letters about me to other people, giving details that he should not have known but always expressed in terms of concern and sympathy, to make it seem like he cared. Very mischievous. It happened at a time when DOCS (our version of CPS) were sniffing around because of difficult child 3's language delay (which, because of my physical disability, people were blaming on me being weird). DOCS did a good job, checked things out, cleared me and then gave me some valuable referrals. So I am wary of applying the label to others. But there is a huge difference between Munchhausen's, and someone who overdoes the sympathy and catastrophises illness in their child. There is a clear distinction between Munchhausen's and hypochondria. Interestingly, the hypochondrium is a part of the anatomy just under the diaphragm. Doctors noted that women especially, would often report vague symptoms of discomfort in this area, and it became known as hypochondria. At the time they could find no cause, and so over time the name of the condition became associated with "She's hysterical, believes she is ill but is not really." Hysteria was believed to be connected to the womb, hence removal of the womb is called hysterectomy. Someone who is a hypochondriac genuinely believes they are ill. The belief is very strong and sometimes reassurance form a doctor just is not enough. It is tricky to use this as a label because increasingly, there are cases of people who insisted tat something was wrong in the face of medical tests clearing them. Only later did they find tat the patient was right, there WAS something serious wrong. Doctors are learning to pay attention now, when a patient says, "I don't care what the tests say, something feels not right." Someone with Munchhausen's, on the other hand, is deliberately faking and knows it. A Munchhausen's person often tries to get into hospital, usually by faking symptoms they have carefully researched. Sometimes you can get hypochondria and Munchhausen's together - a patient believes that something is wrong, doctors can't find it, so they fake a different illness in order to get into hospital and investigated, in the hope that this time the doctors will get it right. However, in general, the Munchhausen's person is primarily attention-seeking rather than diagnosis-seeking. The main purpose in a diagnosis is to provide another label to hang the sympathy on. For example, in the days of mercury thermometers, a patient might have a number of tricks to push the reading up. Applying it to a hot water bottle, for example, or rubbing the thermometer between their hands when the nurse is not looking. Munchhausen's by proxy - the sort of things they can do, is give medication to their child that is not prescribed for them. Not, "I'm sure these stomach pills of mine will help your stomach bug feel better," but much more serious - grandma's heart pills given to a toddler in massive doses, for example, to deliberately cause heart arrhythmias and trigger an emergency reaction. Or a wound on a child's arm can be sent septic, by a mother deliberately inoculating it with a faecal sample. That is not hypochondria in any way. it is deliberate harm, purely to gain attention. A Munchhausen's by proxy parent will seem dedicated, compassionate, patient, caring and as time goes on, increasingly panicked for their child. A parent who is genuine can appear the same - that is the tragedy. Janet, I'm with you - I believe we have had a few more of these people slip below the radar on tis site, than perhaps we are aware. However, I don't think they last. There are probably better pickings for them elsewhere. However, we always need to be on our guard because the cost of someone slipping through the net and milking us for as much sympathy as possible, is a lot more tan just our time wasted. Sites like this can get killed off by this sort of behaviour. Marg [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
General Discussions
The Watercooler
Muchhausen's by Internet?
Top