My ex hurting all of us by talking about his great relationship with Scott

[BusynMember]

Scott is my son who renounced me and the rest of the family...except for my ex husband.

I am doing well living without Scott...untill I hear about things he has actually done. I have begged my kids, 35 and Julie not to talk about Scott, even if ex tells them something about him, but, of course, Julie, in particular, needs somebody to talk about it with and I'm it.

Ex is kind of clueless. I often think he has a form of Aspergers. He is constantly talking about Scott's wife Karen to Julie. He will say, "It's ok if you don't want to take me to the doctor because Karen said she will." Then he constantly talks to her about what Scott and he did together.

This really hurts Julie. Scott was really close to her before he married and he dumped her like the trash. He wants nothing to do with her anymore and she, like me, have accepted that, but she is upset that her father is so cozy with Scott, considering how badly he hurt herself and me. She doesn't think he should see Scott because he has been such a jerk to us and to ex as well. He didn't speak to ex for three years, but ex has money and we think Scott wants a piece of that pie when ex is gone and ex has an illness. I hope ex lives twenty more years, but nobody knows how long he will last and Scott knows this. Julie feels Karen is replacing her and Julie has REALLY done a lot for her father and has never spent one day refusing to talk to him. Every time he brings up either of them to Julie, she is very hurt.

35 is not a prize, but ex doesn't need to tell him about his joyful relationship with Scott either. It especially wounds 35 when ex says, "J. isn't my only grandson. I have N. too (Scott's son who nobody knows except ex)." There is no need for ex to ever bring Scott or N. up to 35. When 35 lived near ex, he spent all his time with J. Ex called Scott after 35 moved to MIssouri because "I'm getting older and I want more than Julie to be in touch with me in case something happened." Now N. is his #1 grandson. I guess he's mine too, technically, but I've never seen him. I wish he'd understand that Scott is a wound to us all...there is no reason for him to discuss him with the other kids.

Of course, then I get an earful about Scott and, especially from Julie, how it hurts her and she wants him to stop. She has begged him to stop, but he doesn't understand why she cares and continues to talk about them to her. And she tells me. And then I get off the phone and cry because Scott is interacting with his father, but refuses to even give me the time of day if I were to call him...this I am sure of. And that brings back old memories that I'd rather not revisit as there is no point. But I have cried after hearing Julie talk about Scott. When I tell her to put her foot down and tell ex that she will not listen to him talking about Scott and will gently hang up the phone, she both doesn't want to be disrespectful to her father (she has always wanted him to love her in a way he can't) and she doesn't think it will work (not so sure of that). Still, she wants Daddy to love her. I get it.

So Scott still haunts me through my ex and my kids, although it certainly is not a sustained long term hurt because I quickly put it out of my head and try to forget him. In the back of my mind I wonder if he'd speak to me if I had money. Then I need a therapy session to remember that Scott is probably attachment challenged...yet he will see my ex.

And I must admit it hurts when 35 passes along that ex sees N. and has two grandchildren. He sees both. He is much closer to ST. Louis than I am and drives there when he wants to in order to see J. I can't drive there. With my various neurological wiring short circuits I could never get to ST. Louis on my own and husband has to work and has little interest in visiting 35 on the few vacation days he has. So ex has two grandchildren who love him...I have two who don't know me and one who never will.

On bad days like this, I remember that husband and I can do foster care and have little ones around. I also try to focus on the fact that Julie wants a child, but is just not getting pregnant. I have to think that one day she will, even though it is not easy for her to conceive. She is only 28. She has time.

BUT I DONT WANT MY FIRST GRANDCHILD WHEN I'M 75...lololol

If anyone has creative things to say to ex that MIGHT stop him from bringing up Scott, please share, but remember he is pretty clueless and doesn't understand (or maybe care) that this hurts other people. He LIKES Scott in his life because he is a successful child who never needs to ask him for money and he's so smart and he just seems compelled to babble about him.

Tonight I am thinking about Scott and little N., who I will never know, and wondering if t here is any way to shut him up about Scott. For those who think Scott may come back, he won't. Not to any of the rest of us. His wife even said s he was scared of me and I believe it. She explained why and it had a lot to do with how families interact in normal ways in the US, but she is Chinese through and through. Any conflict is a fight and Scott has said nothing to keep her from fearing me.

I wish to hello, selfish as it is, that the kids would stop telling me about Scott. He is their father so they have to put up with BS, but I divorced him...yet I know that's not fair.

I'm very tired. 35 was maddening tonight and this Scott thing is bringing me down at a time when my life is basically sooooooooooooooo good. I need Scott out of my head to have a good life. I can only purge him from my mind if allowed. He was my son from age 6-about 30. If only I could never hear about him again!!!

Please...nobody suggest he may have second thoughts and come back. Truly, that is not going to happen and in reality I don't really want it too unless it was without all the conditions he put on me in order to see him. I can't count on that and don't want to hear that he might. He has pretty much truly dismissed us.For good.

 

[busywend]

MWM, I do not have any suggestions to get Ex to stop. But, I do want you to know that I am sorry that it happens this way. I know the pain is real and warranted. HUGS!

 

[Hound dog]

Every time he starts to talk about Scott tell him to SHUT UP. Hard, cold, mean, with a determined look. No explanation, you've all explained yourselves to death on this topic and he obviously doesn't care. If he can't shut up, hang up or walk away or tell him to leave.

Often the simple direct approach works best.

I know it hurts. Neither you or the other kids need to have it rubbed in your face. So don't let him by refusing to listen to it.

Or perhaps someone needs to bluntly inform him that Scott's interest in him is most likely only for his bank account. If he chooses not to believe it, not your problem, but it would at least give him something to consider when it comes to his relationship with Scott.

(((hugs)))

 

[muttmeister]

There is a mantra that I used to repeat on here often. I think it applies in this case:

You can't control what anybody else does or says. You can only control your reaction to them.

If somebody is clueless, even after you've told them, that what they are doing is hurting you, either they don't understand the problem of they just don't care. All you can do is learn to tune them out, ignore them, or , when they start, put your fingers in your ears and sing the la-la song.

And I wouldn't sweat the "I don't want my first grandchild when I'm 75." People have kids if and when they are ready and grandparents should know better than trying to hurry the process along. I have 3 grandkids whose parents rarely work and really can't care for the kids they have so they are having another baby. Be careful what you wish for; you may get it in spades.

 

[HaoZi]

Well, Julie might not want to put her foot down about not listening to her father about Scott, but that doesn't mean you have to listen to Julie about it - she can always vent to her husband or her friends. You've hung up on 35 many times, so I know you can put your foot down on him. And I'm sure you can hang up on EX, too, if he won't listen and respect your wishes not to hear about Scott.
I'd lay it on the table one final time, and then follow through with something like "Call me back when you have something else to discuss with me." and hang up gently.

 

[BusynMember]

Ex doesn't talk to ME about Scott. He knows better. Julie does, when ex has upset her, and 35 does too sometimes. Yes, I can hang up on 35...but I can't hang up on Julie. On the other hand, well, as hard as it is for me to do this to my beloved pastry chef, I guess I will pretend I have to go if she brings it up. She can go to therapy if she wants to talk about it, but it really upsets me so, even though I am fine listening to her talk about other problems she has, Scott can't be an issue I listen to.
Thanks for the reminders.

 

[susiestar]

MWM, Will you do a huge favor for me? Go to the bookstore or amazon and get a copy of Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. there is also a workbook by the same people that goes with it. Read the book and do the exercises. PLEASE. I am BEGGING you. It. Will. Change. Your. Life. For. The. Amazing.

I am totally serious. You cannot change others. You can change how you react to them. That is what you control.

You are so totally and adult child that I think sometimes you are like a long lost sister who grew up with the same dysfunctional koi that I did. And in many ways, real ways, you are. I am an adult grandchild, like Julie is. I am also the daughter of a man with aspergers or something close enough to it to be the same thing. Except my dad is a lot less clueless about things that hurt people because he spent almost forty years teaching kids. You HAVE to figure out feelings to do that.

You need to let J know how this hurts you, and tell her that you cannot stay sane and be her therapist through this issue. So in the future if seh needs to talk about Scott, she should go to a friend or therapist or her dad. Not to you. You don't want her to hurt, but you MUST stay sane and this is your kryptonite. I promise that even if she gets mad and blows up at you, she will come back to you.

I am sorry this is so painful, and I do understand. You can do nothing about ex's behavior except make sure you do not listen to him discussing Scott. I would tell him that Scott only wants his money, but he won't care. At his age, with so few ties to anyone, he cannot admit this although he probably knows it already.

You have to get to that alanon meeting. There are lots of them at different times. If you need help finding one, pm me. I can help.

 

[BusynMember]

Interesting, Susie. Scott read Boundaries, then did a workshop on it and that's what changed him, but not for the better. Actually, his EXTREME religion also did and for him this religious conversion was not good, at least not for those who loved him. He seemed to think that the book and his church mean that he should do whatever he wants to do and everyone else should just pick up the pieces on their own...he has no responsibility for anyone else's feelings. Maybe he's right.

I have read that book to see why he changed so much and I think he took it to the extreme and did not get the central message. But I did. And I've read Melodie Beatty and I even was a member of Codependents Anon. I know darn well I can't change anyone else. But I'm puzzled as to why ex keeps pushing Scott on the other kids, who were so hurt from him.

But that's just ex and, yeah, I can't change him. He has no understanding of people, their feelings, anything. Like I said, I wonder if he is a high functioning Aspie. He has always had REALLY peculiar social skills with absolutely no interest in even learning how to better them because I don't think he knows he does so many things that others would catch onto and not do. And this is just another one.

As for me being an Adult-----. Why do you think I believe I should go to Al-Anon? There is no CODA here and I need the reinforcement of the twelve step group and to be reminded in real life that I can not change anyone...just my reaction to what they do and say. Julie is really not a big problem. She doesn't hang me with much of her stuff, not even about her father. The one I have to REALLY detach from is 35. I'm much better than I ever was before, but not as good as I would be if Scott hadn't left (no, I can't change him either). But you sure nail people well. I'm an adult child of a narcissistic father who barely paid any attention to us and none to his grandchildren and who has never seen, nor does he have a desire to see, his great-grandchild. My mother was probably on the borderline spectrum. They raised me. There was no cool extended family. I had no aunt I could talk to. My one uncle called me "brat."

So I know you are right and you always ground me I really appreciate it.

 

[witzend]

I think that your ex doesn't have much to brag about in his relationship with Scott. They're a couple of louses and deserve each other. I know it's hard to not have a loving relationship with him - if you have any at all. I really do. But I have to tell you, I don't envy anyone's relationship with L. She's a nasty piece of work when it concerns her "loved ones", and I wouldn't touch her with a ten foot pole. Do your best to not let it bother you - it really shouldn't.

 

[InsaneCdn]

EX... probably doesn't HAVE any real, normal, healthy relationships. So he's hungry for what he can get, and is satisfied with the "appearance" of a relationship, even if it isn't real/normal/healthy.
Therefore, Scott can manipulate him to his own ends... and S being S, can probably manipulate EX to hurt the others "by remote control" and EX won't even know that's what is happening... but S may be doing it all intentionally.

Just my take on it...

 

[DDD]

MWM you totally know. Recite the Serenity Prayer. Your Ex is beyond your control. You know it. Hugs DDD

 

[susiestar]

I don't think that the book changed Scott. I think he chose the passages out of it that he liked/wanted and used them as permission. Just like he ignores the parts of the Bible about not judging and being kind and so many other things, esp the honor you mom part, Know what I mean??

 

[BusynMember]

Well, of course, as always you are all wonderful. And it's true that ex doesn't have many meaningful relationships. He doesn't know how. Scott is a high achiever and never asks him for money because he has money so he is and always has been the favorite. With ex it is all about whoever doesn't want any of his money. And he loves that Scott is a real nerdy techie and if ex wants to buy a computer or cell phone, he goes with Scott and always gets the best quality item for his money. Ex is also huge on who can do things for him. Julie cutting his hair can't rate with Scott's vast knowledge of all electronics. I'm sure Scott buys him things too and the other two can't afford that.

For me, the hard part isn't really Scott. It's knowing I have a grandson I will never get to see. But there's nothing I can do about it and I'm guessing there are a lot of rules about how to behave around this little boy.

If it were not for the little boy, I could probably forget completely about Scott, even when he is being talked about. Well, not completely, but put him aside because I will never ever ever forget how cold and vile he treated me at our last meeting, when I tried so hard to reconcile and his wife wept and said she was afraid of me and Scott said he didn't miss me at all, when the mediator asked him. If I have any warm, motherly feelings toward Scott now, I think about that and turn cold. With Julie, it is harder. She tries so much to please her dad and he is always going to favor Scott and his witchy wife. Since she doesn't complain much, I feel I should, as a loving mother, listen to her when she is telling me her feelings. After all, I divorced ex and don't have to talk to him, but she does. One day I hope she learns t hat she will never please him. I am trying to explain to her that this is just the way he is. But she is sensitive and still pretty young.

It takes time.