My Gothic girl

[flutterbee]

So, after weeks and months of not being allowed to say the "G" word (Goth or Gothic) or I would get in 'trouble' for 'picking on' difficult child (I really wasn't...was just stating fact, but she's a bit sensitive)....

difficult child asks me tonight - if I had to label her, what would I label her? AHA! I think to myself. I'm too smart for this. So, I told her that I would label her 'original', while feeling quite proud of myself for not getting suckered into THAT particular quagmire.

No, difficult child says, if you had to stereotype me, what would you say. Hmmm...this was going to get sticky. You mean like Preppy or whatever, I ask, careful to avoid the "G" word. Yes, she replies.

Well, you seem to prefer the Gothic style (notice I didn't say she was Gothic), I tell her. She asks if I think Goth or Gothic. There's a difference? Yes, Goth is more hard core Gothic and Gothic is just the style of clothing, etc. At this point my head hurts. I didn't know there was a difference. I'm really afraid of saying the wrong thing, but take a deep breath and go for it and tell her that I think Gothic, then.

I answered right.

And apparently she has researched this and psychologists have said that teens that are into the Goth/ic scene are more artistic and more intelligent than your average joe and as adults end up with high paying, intelligence required jobs. I told her that didn't surprise me because she is very intelligent AND creative. I also told her that I was never picking on her, that I was just identifying with her when we were picking out clothes and I would pick something up and say this seems to be more Gothic (which is when I got in trouble). I told her that while I never wanted to be just like everyone else at her age, that I never would have had the courage to just be who I am when it was so different from the norm and that I admired her for that. (Although, I do believe the Goth scene is becoming more 'popular'.)

So, now I'm allowed to call her Gothic. My Gothic girl who knits.

 

[LittleDudesMom]

Oh Heather!! What a great story! I'm sitting here with a dumb smile on my face and I even read the post to easy child who got a good laugh as well .

Thank goodness you passed the test with flying colors

Sharon

 

[meowbunny]

Always nice when we come up with the correct answer, isn't it? Good job!

 

[Marguerite]

"My Gothic girl who knits."

Has she started knitting chain mail yet?

I'm not kidding. It's called "knitting" when you make chain mail. husband began a small piece purely to see how it was done, easy child 2/difficult child 2 got interested and began work on a halberd. She actually went to an audition with her chain mail in a bag. It's string onto a metal rod which does look very much like a large metal knitting needle, but from there it's different. The metal rod also does duty to wind the wire around, which forms a coil which she slips off then cuts into individual links. The links then get clamped into a set of five, which then get joined together to add more units to the chain mail garment. This is for single mail - if you were going into battle with it, single mail is lighter but wouldn't stop much. But for a real Goth effect in the local Irish pub, a chain mail halberd over the corset would certainly turn heads...

easy child 2/difficult child 2 wears corsets. Real ones. Tight ones. I set a rule that she had to be able to lace it herself (none of this clinging to the bedpost while a slave does the lace tightening). She says it's "like wearing a hug". So when I saw a picture of a design by a student at difficult child 3's school of a corset made from barbed wire, I had to take a photo.

There's definitely nothing run-of-the-mill with our girls.

Marg

 

[Wiped Out]

Heather,
This was so much fun to read-glad you got the right answer My easy child went through the gothic style stage for awhile but seems to have drifted from it somewhat.

 

[bran155]

That was great!!! Good job mom. Quick thinking and you got it right.

 

[Andy]

I am so glad to hear there is a difference. My easy child was really into the black clothing/look and it kind of confused me because I really didn't think she fit the hard core goth life style. Then one day she had dyed her hair and it turned jet black - very gothic looking - but I didn't say anything. I was so relieved when a few days later she asked if I would pay 1/2 for her to bleach out this black because it looked to gothic for her! I was so glad to help get rid of that super jet black hair - it just wasn't her.

So, maybe kids like the "look" but are not necessarily into the bad behaviors associated with the hard core goth? For some reason, goth reminds me of modern day hippies.

You are such a good role model on how to be patient and work through these difficult child moments.

 

[Marguerite]

easy child 2/difficult child 2 is basically a decent kid. She has dressed Goth for some years now, thankfully decided to not dye her hair black (it would have looked awful, she is a redhead). She is toning her look down a bit and is still very much an individual. Her choice of clothing has been primarily black (she's been anti-pink since her early teens; still is). She made a choice to stay out of the sun I think partly because Goth looks better with pale skin but mostly because she just can't get a tan, and risks sunburn even if she goes out in the sun wearing sunscreen.

However, in her quest to look more 'normal' (she recognises that there are times when this is important, such as job interviews) she has found that she still needs to go to Goth supply options to get makeup, for example. She uses a foundation that she got form a website that supplies theatrical makeup to people who want the pale vampire look. But on her, it looks normal. Her skin tends to flush so she looks like she's wearing far too much blusher (which she never wears) so good, pale coverage in a foundation actually looks more normal on her.

Mind you, she still looks like something from Edgar Allen Poe when she dresses up to go out - black satin skirt (a la Morticia Addams), black lacy blouse under a black velvet corset; black high-button boots (with red and white striped socks) and completes it with a black parasol that is unusually curved, it's not your standard umbrella shape. With white skin and waist-length red hair.

I just wish she would stop wearing vampire teeth with the outfit.

The teeth - they're not the usual plastic denture things, they are tiny moulded plastic bits that neatly fit over her own eye teeth and stay put even when eating and drinking. In our area police often stop cars for random checks - I dread the day when she gets pulled over for a random check and she's wearing vampire teeth.

In the days before the vampire teeth a former boss saw her on the way to work, in her Goth get-up, and told her that she needed to dress more conservatively so she wouldn't give his business a bad name. Even though I prefer it when she dresses less Goth, I was a bit annoyed by this since she never arrived at the workplace out of uniform, she would go change her clothes away from the business and there was nothing to connect her Goth appearance to the business in any way.

One thing that has definitely come out of this - easy child 2/difficult child 2 has her own very strong sense of style which, while it may be influenced by Goth, is very individual. More colour is now creeping back in especially green, which looks good with her hair.

So hang in there - the clothing style does not necessarily reflect a state of mind, although it can indicate an individual looking for interesting directions.

easy child 2/difficult child 2 has also been influenced (positively, I think) by the "Discworld" books by Terry Pratchett. I find them very mentally stimulating and they also encourage wider reading as well as good general knowledge (you get more of the jokes that way).

So if your daughter is morphing into a Goth, there are some books I can highly recommend to ensure she doesn't slide into Emo.

Marg

 

[trinityroyal]

Heather, what a great post. Good for you for passing the Goth/Gothic test.

Back in the 80s, I was a Goth (although back then there was no difference between Goth and Gothic. I had no idea).

Reading your posts, and Marg's posts about easy child 2/difficult child 2's wardrobe is making me realize that, although I thought I had mostly grown out of the goth look, I still retain many of the trappings. They're just toned down and disguised a bit, to fit in with the conservative and corporate (but still very creative) job I hold.

Lots of black leather boots, many with buckles or shoe buttons. One fabulous pair of knee high lace-up grannie boots. Long black skirts (tailored instead of ragged or hobbled or diaphanous). Yes, corsets, real ones. Just worn under conservative wool business suits. Jet black hair (of course, that happens to be my natural colour). Tight leather jackets (in colours other than black, so that they're less severe and can pass as the top half of a business suit)

There are lots of ways to make it work. Glad to hear that your daughter did the research and found the positive aspects of the fashion statement.

Thanks for bringing back some fun memories.

Trinity

 

[terryboberry]

I love this story! Thank you for sharing. I can't wait to show my husband. I laughed when you talked about your brain hurting... it's so hard to carefully select the right words that won't get us in trouble

My son struggled when he was referred to as EMO because he had a few visible cutting scares. I guess EMO's have a style of clothing too, but I couldn't figure it out. All I know is that he will not wear Hollister or any other labels, which is all that difficult child's preppy sister liked at his age. He considers himself an "individual". That would be the label he uses. "I am an individual."

 

[flutterbee]

I'm really not aware of any bad behaviors attributed to the Goth style. Even as a teen (and there was no difference between Goth and Gothic then), I always saw them as more artistic people who didn't follow the crowd like sheep.

I can't imagine she'll do corsets. The sensory thing would get to her, I think. But, I could be wrong. She's expanding her horizons on a daily basis. Right now, she wants some hair extensions in blue and red. She's doing the black eyeliner - started this week - and has been having some difficulty getting it off at night. Especially because I don't have any makeup remover as I rarely wear makeup anymore. Guess we'll have to get some.

She has natural, very dark brown hair. She had gone a bit blonde earlier this year and is now back to her dark brown. And she has a very fair complexion, so she naturally fits the gothic look in that manner. She wanted to get some black eyeshadow and I told her that I really didn't think that was going to turn out the way she was thinking. She wanted the 'smokey eye' look. I told her you get that with grays, not black.

I think it looks good on her, actually. It's just accentuating her natural colors. So far, she's really only dabbling. Black shirts, converse type shoes, arm warmers (fingerless gloves that go up the arms), a couple of skirts from Hot Topic, eyeliner and black nail polish.

I've always loved the knee-high and lace up boots. Me and Stevie Nicks...."I wear my boots all summer long...."

I'm just glad that she's no longer being so sensitive to this. Accepting who you are is important. This is who she is right now. Might be something different next month...she's 13...but it's ok to just be who you are.

 

[Marguerite]

A suggestion about make-up remover - try vegetable oil. I have been using olive oil because it's free of preservatives which cause my eyes to react.

I actually heard easy child 2/difficult child 2 talking to someone else on Tuesday about this very topic - she swears by baby wipes to get rid of eye make-up. She says they do a much better job with a lot less hassle, including waterproof mascara which is otherwise almost impossible to shift.

Eye shadow - you're right, black is too difficult to blend. To get it right (for a Goth look that doesn't look like she's been poked in the eye with a burnt stick) she should get a black kohl pencil. Maybelline do a good one like a propelling pencil, a cheap one too. She can use it for eyeliner and also smudge it to get a blended shadow effect. To get more shadows a grey-purple works well and is perfectly acceptable for a Goth look, goes well with black. If she needs convincing, tell her that in Victorian eras violet, mauve and purple were considered acceptable alternatives to black when wearing mourning.

Depending on her colouring (besides what you've already told us) she could have an eyeshadow shade with more brown, or more blue. She could go to a cosmetic counter and ask for advice, or surf the net to look for sites which explain how to get a good Goth look with make-up.

A word of advice on a health matter - if she is avoiding the sun to keep her skin pale this is very responsible because of skin cancer concerns, but especially if she has olive skin she is at risk of Vitamin d deficiency. She perhaps should take a supplement - calcium plus D is a good option, it makes sure her bones are growing strong.

And if she's at all craft-y - why not talk to her about making chain mail? To make it she needs a roll of fencing wire (not too heavy gauge or it's too difficult to work); a metal rod about pencil thick (to wind the fencing wire around to make a coil, which you then cut into links); wire cutters to cut the coil and pliers to squeeze the links closed. She may never make more than enough to cover a handkerchief, but it is a useful history lesson. She could research single mail, double mail and triple mail as well as some of the punched mail that would have been made for the nobility.

Here is an interesting link:
http://www.doomlegends.com/maille/knitting.html

Marg

 

[TerryJ2]

That's pretty funny.

Especially that she thinks being either Gothic or Goth is original. It is a uniform you can spot from a block away.

Kids.

 

[flutterbee]

Terry,

She's just being who she is. She doesn't think she's being 'original'. In fact, she realizes there are stereotypes. She happens to like the style and feels more comfortable in this then in trying to be something she's not. She's not trying to be anything other than who she is.

It's taken her a long time to get to the point where she's comfortable with that and I'm proud of her. When she was in the 5th grade, she got all skirts for school clothes. Was so proud of her outfit with her blue and black checked skirt that was longer on one side and her boots. She got to school and all the other girls were wearing jeans. We had to go shopping again and she never wore all those skirts.

She's just being who she is. She's not thinking that she's being anything else.

I'm glad you were able to get a laugh at my daughter's expense.

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

Copper used to dress Gothic. And get ticked if I called her a Goth.

Tink (at age SEVEN) is starting to want to dress Gothic. All her school clothes this year are black and hot pink.

Yes, hot pink.

Well she's not TOTALLY giving up on being girly.

 

[TerryJ2]

Heather! I didn't mean it that way. I will re-read the note and see what I missed.
So sorry ...

 

[TerryJ2]

difficult child asks me tonight - if I had to label her, what would I label her? AHA! I think to myself. I'm too smart for this.

Okay, Heather, this is what I was going on. You were so lighthearted, it seemed like I could be, too.
I did not mean to offend.

 

[mrscatinthehat]

I was so into wearing black that my family refers to it still. Nothing wrong with identifying something you like. Glad she is finding her niche.

beth

 

[totoro]

I am another one who slipped back and forth between punk and goth... I combined it through Junior and High School... I even had most of my hair shaved off at one point!
I just loved clothes and not fitting in or being like all of the others. It felt comfortable. I understand what she is doing. I was shy, insecure all of those things, I was not looking for attention. It just felt right.
K has always, so far, done what she likes as far as style. We just bought her shoes, they had to be black boys sketchers. They are so cool though!!!
She has had spiderman tennis shoes, lunch box. She just liked them, had never seen spiderman. She has little skater shorts and shirts...
As long as she is happy and comfortable fine... 2 years ago I dyed her hair pink. She wanted and had asked for over 6 months! It really looked good...

I say go for it Wynter!!! Good job Heather.