Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New profile posts
Latest activity
Internet Search
Members
Current visitors
New profile posts
Search profile posts
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
Parent Support Forums
General Parenting
My son is not getting it!
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 489628" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>A point I want to make, that I have often made before - kids on the spectrum often (almost always?) see themselves as everyone's equal. They are the only true egalitarians in the world. And while we might SAY that we want everyone to be equal - when it comes to our kids and how they treat us, we do not want them to be as equal as all that!</p><p></p><p>Seriously though, these kids especially when younger cannot get into anybody else's head. They can only see the world, and other people, through their own eyes. This does relate to the theory of mind problems, but what it means for you, in practical terms, is that our kids have great difficulty with social strata. You are fully equal to him, in his eyes. Perhaps less so, because you require standards of behaviour from him, that you do not show to him. This is normal - as parents, we require obedience from our children. But are you obedient to him? Of course not, because you are the parent.</p><p></p><p>The trouble is with these kids - they take a long time, sometimes forever, to get this concept. So you need to change tack. Instead of trying to command obedience and respect, you have to treat the child the way you want the child to treat you. This seems like giving in, like allowing the child to rule. But given the alternatives (and this does work) - 'normal' parenting not only doesn't work on these kids, it backfires.</p><p></p><p>An example might be easiest. I need a task done. "difficult child 3, will you please fetch the bags from the car?"</p><p>His response often is, "I can't, I'm busy. You do it."</p><p>A 'normal' parental response would be, "I said get the bags! I'm not asking, I'm telling you! Fetch the bags or no more gaming for the rest of the day!"</p><p>[Now, if I said 'no more gaming', I would be hard-pressed to enforce it, because this kid can find ways to access his games that I don't think the game makers have even realised exist. I would have a huge fight on my hands, no work would be done by either of us and difficult child 3 would have huge resentment and would be further away from ever getting the lesson].</p><p>My better response is, "Honey, I need your help. I have already brought in half the shopping and put it away. I still have a lot to do and it's work, not games. If you pause your game for a few minutes it will be alright. But in the shopping bags I have milk, I do not want it to get warm in the car."</p><p>Logic works. Teamwork works. "I am already doing X" works.</p><p></p><p>It is also very important to not be a doormat. Comparison works for us now, because difficult child 3 is now 17 and does have some level of theory of mind. yes, they can get it. It just takes longer.</p><p></p><p>Another example - difficult child 3 has a daily job of feeding the hens. He is often reluctant to leave a game to go do this, although he will still do it if he realises he forgot and it's 10 pm. But I can say to him, "Honey, the chickens need feed and water. Eggs need to be collected. You need to do it as soon as possible because a storm is on the way. Do it now and you will stay dry. Wait too long and you will have to do it in the rain."</p><p></p><p>Two nights ago I was cooking peas in a pot on the stove. difficult child 3 commented to easy child that he doesn't know how to cook peas. </p><p>"Are you serious?" she said to him. "Then tomorrow night you should cook the peas. Let Mum talk you through it, but you do it. It's easy, it's as easy as cooking pasta and I know you can do that."</p><p>So last night when it was time to cook the peas, I called difficult child 3. He came right away to help although he was a bit apprehensive and that can also show in a bit of belligerence. "I shouldn't do this, I don't know what to do."</p><p>"I'll talk you through it. it's okay," I told him. We went out to the garden. I told him we needed to pick some mint. </p><p>"I don't know where it is," he said. "This is not our garden, it's easy child's."</p><p>But he knows what mint looks like, so he soon found it. I talked him through picking it ("pinch back the longer shoots") and he brought it inside, put it in the saucepan, put in some water. I told him to put in a teaspoon of cooking salt (showed him where it was in his sister's kitchen). Then I got him to measure peas in another container until it looked like the right amount for all of us. Then on the stove to boil.</p><p>At dinner, he said the peas were just right. Okay, I turned them down when they boiled and I arranged the timing. But he felt a sense of accomplishment and next time will be far more willing to help because he has done it before.</p><p></p><p>I also have to give difficult child 3 as much notice as possible of a change in routine, or change in plans. He finds it very upsetting when plans change, or he can't remember being told something. For example, we need to head home in the next day or so but I'm not sure whether we will leave today or tomorrow. This is really bothering difficult child 3, but because he is older and more mature now, he understands why we have this uncertainty - new baby in the family, and she can't organise herself.</p><p></p><p>He's come a long way.</p><p></p><p>An example from the past - difficult child 3 was about 11 years old, having surgery on a ganglion on his wrist. We were in the doctor's waiting room and difficult child 3 did his usual thing of rummaging in the toybox for baby books to read. he is a good reader, but chooses only books he has read before, so he had not progressed beyond "Spot" at the time. He also could not read silently, and I did not want to see a waiting room full of people disturbed. But there was a baby there, six months old. I suggested that difficult child 3 could read a book to the baby (who was getting a bit restless). He loved that idea and took a selection of Spot books to the baby.</p><p>"Baby, which one would you like me to read?" [baby waved hand aimlessly] "This one? okay, good choice." and he began to read. "Where is Spot? Is he under the table? Look baby, can you see where Spot is?" </p><p>He was trying to engage the baby, in exactly the same way I would try to engage him (at age 11) in a book. He really thought the baby was able to think the same way he could. of course people in the room thought he was just pretending and being sweet, but I knew. I supported difficult child 3 through this if he began to get impatient at the baby's lack of verbal response or apparent inattention. "It's okay, the baby is too young to talk yet. But look, her eyes are following you and she seems happy to be getting read to. Keep going, you're doing great."</p><p></p><p>I noted after that, often difficult child 3 would stop and talk to babies in the mall, but would talk at his own level and expect an answer. This was the beginning of him understanding that people's minds are different, and what happens in his head does not necessarily happen in others.</p><p></p><p>Another example - easy child 2/difficult child 2, as an adult. Working in a shop on a cash register. Her register always would balance at the end of the day. Nobody else could match her record. She got impatient that other staff were often out by 10c here, $1 there. "Why can't they balance? You just have to keep your mind on the job and watch the money through the day, so you always know how much is there."</p><p>She was shocked when I told her that her brain might work that way, but other people's brains do not. She was 21 at the time.</p><p></p><p>Theory of mind can have subtle, far-reaching effects. But time will bring change. In the meantime, behave towards him as you want him to behave towards you. Think of him as a friend who is staying with you - a well-meaning but hamfisted friend. You show the friend love and respect, and repeatedly, gently remind your friend where the towels are kept, to put plates in the sink, and ask your friend to work alongside you as you prepare a meal or do the laundry. As you work, you chat. This also helps teach them how to socialise.</p><p></p><p>Find your level. But no, you are not a servant not should you be. As for the "I'm 45" - it could just be his way of trying to define how he feels inside his head. If you need to (and if the doctor thinks it's not a reality issue) I would show him his birth certificate and have him do the maths. Then show him yours.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 489628, member: 1991"] A point I want to make, that I have often made before - kids on the spectrum often (almost always?) see themselves as everyone's equal. They are the only true egalitarians in the world. And while we might SAY that we want everyone to be equal - when it comes to our kids and how they treat us, we do not want them to be as equal as all that! Seriously though, these kids especially when younger cannot get into anybody else's head. They can only see the world, and other people, through their own eyes. This does relate to the theory of mind problems, but what it means for you, in practical terms, is that our kids have great difficulty with social strata. You are fully equal to him, in his eyes. Perhaps less so, because you require standards of behaviour from him, that you do not show to him. This is normal - as parents, we require obedience from our children. But are you obedient to him? Of course not, because you are the parent. The trouble is with these kids - they take a long time, sometimes forever, to get this concept. So you need to change tack. Instead of trying to command obedience and respect, you have to treat the child the way you want the child to treat you. This seems like giving in, like allowing the child to rule. But given the alternatives (and this does work) - 'normal' parenting not only doesn't work on these kids, it backfires. An example might be easiest. I need a task done. "difficult child 3, will you please fetch the bags from the car?" His response often is, "I can't, I'm busy. You do it." A 'normal' parental response would be, "I said get the bags! I'm not asking, I'm telling you! Fetch the bags or no more gaming for the rest of the day!" [Now, if I said 'no more gaming', I would be hard-pressed to enforce it, because this kid can find ways to access his games that I don't think the game makers have even realised exist. I would have a huge fight on my hands, no work would be done by either of us and difficult child 3 would have huge resentment and would be further away from ever getting the lesson]. My better response is, "Honey, I need your help. I have already brought in half the shopping and put it away. I still have a lot to do and it's work, not games. If you pause your game for a few minutes it will be alright. But in the shopping bags I have milk, I do not want it to get warm in the car." Logic works. Teamwork works. "I am already doing X" works. It is also very important to not be a doormat. Comparison works for us now, because difficult child 3 is now 17 and does have some level of theory of mind. yes, they can get it. It just takes longer. Another example - difficult child 3 has a daily job of feeding the hens. He is often reluctant to leave a game to go do this, although he will still do it if he realises he forgot and it's 10 pm. But I can say to him, "Honey, the chickens need feed and water. Eggs need to be collected. You need to do it as soon as possible because a storm is on the way. Do it now and you will stay dry. Wait too long and you will have to do it in the rain." Two nights ago I was cooking peas in a pot on the stove. difficult child 3 commented to easy child that he doesn't know how to cook peas. "Are you serious?" she said to him. "Then tomorrow night you should cook the peas. Let Mum talk you through it, but you do it. It's easy, it's as easy as cooking pasta and I know you can do that." So last night when it was time to cook the peas, I called difficult child 3. He came right away to help although he was a bit apprehensive and that can also show in a bit of belligerence. "I shouldn't do this, I don't know what to do." "I'll talk you through it. it's okay," I told him. We went out to the garden. I told him we needed to pick some mint. "I don't know where it is," he said. "This is not our garden, it's easy child's." But he knows what mint looks like, so he soon found it. I talked him through picking it ("pinch back the longer shoots") and he brought it inside, put it in the saucepan, put in some water. I told him to put in a teaspoon of cooking salt (showed him where it was in his sister's kitchen). Then I got him to measure peas in another container until it looked like the right amount for all of us. Then on the stove to boil. At dinner, he said the peas were just right. Okay, I turned them down when they boiled and I arranged the timing. But he felt a sense of accomplishment and next time will be far more willing to help because he has done it before. I also have to give difficult child 3 as much notice as possible of a change in routine, or change in plans. He finds it very upsetting when plans change, or he can't remember being told something. For example, we need to head home in the next day or so but I'm not sure whether we will leave today or tomorrow. This is really bothering difficult child 3, but because he is older and more mature now, he understands why we have this uncertainty - new baby in the family, and she can't organise herself. He's come a long way. An example from the past - difficult child 3 was about 11 years old, having surgery on a ganglion on his wrist. We were in the doctor's waiting room and difficult child 3 did his usual thing of rummaging in the toybox for baby books to read. he is a good reader, but chooses only books he has read before, so he had not progressed beyond "Spot" at the time. He also could not read silently, and I did not want to see a waiting room full of people disturbed. But there was a baby there, six months old. I suggested that difficult child 3 could read a book to the baby (who was getting a bit restless). He loved that idea and took a selection of Spot books to the baby. "Baby, which one would you like me to read?" [baby waved hand aimlessly] "This one? okay, good choice." and he began to read. "Where is Spot? Is he under the table? Look baby, can you see where Spot is?" He was trying to engage the baby, in exactly the same way I would try to engage him (at age 11) in a book. He really thought the baby was able to think the same way he could. of course people in the room thought he was just pretending and being sweet, but I knew. I supported difficult child 3 through this if he began to get impatient at the baby's lack of verbal response or apparent inattention. "It's okay, the baby is too young to talk yet. But look, her eyes are following you and she seems happy to be getting read to. Keep going, you're doing great." I noted after that, often difficult child 3 would stop and talk to babies in the mall, but would talk at his own level and expect an answer. This was the beginning of him understanding that people's minds are different, and what happens in his head does not necessarily happen in others. Another example - easy child 2/difficult child 2, as an adult. Working in a shop on a cash register. Her register always would balance at the end of the day. Nobody else could match her record. She got impatient that other staff were often out by 10c here, $1 there. "Why can't they balance? You just have to keep your mind on the job and watch the money through the day, so you always know how much is there." She was shocked when I told her that her brain might work that way, but other people's brains do not. She was 21 at the time. Theory of mind can have subtle, far-reaching effects. But time will bring change. In the meantime, behave towards him as you want him to behave towards you. Think of him as a friend who is staying with you - a well-meaning but hamfisted friend. You show the friend love and respect, and repeatedly, gently remind your friend where the towels are kept, to put plates in the sink, and ask your friend to work alongside you as you prepare a meal or do the laundry. As you work, you chat. This also helps teach them how to socialise. Find your level. But no, you are not a servant not should you be. As for the "I'm 45" - it could just be his way of trying to define how he feels inside his head. If you need to (and if the doctor thinks it's not a reality issue) I would show him his birth certificate and have him do the maths. Then show him yours. Marg [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Parent Support Forums
General Parenting
My son is not getting it!
Top