My son left. I asked him to.

[toughlovin]

Copa.....you and I have a lot in common in our situations. I too think you did the right thing for this time. As I told my son recently when there is financial support there are strings attached...I think it makes total sense that if you at providing financial support or housing that you have some conditions.. If they don't meet those conditions they lose the support. And really if they don't want the conditions they are free to figure out how to live on their own terms.

So you made it clear what your conditions were and he didn't follow them. You really had no choice but to follow through. He made this choice.

And it is heartbreaking to be in this position as a parent. Hugs to you.

TL

 

[susiestar]

The things you asked of him were more than reasonable. So was making him leave and so is changing the locks because he likely has multiple copies of the key so he can sneak back in to the house to sleep or whatever. in my opinion you MUST change those locks simply because he lies and acts like he can play you for a fool. I know a lot of young adults who would give keys back to a landlord and then use copies to go party there during the week or month before it was re-rented. With your situation, it could be a long time before new tenants so he has a long time to come and go as he pleases unless/until you change the locks.

When my mother made my brother leave her house, she told him to go live the lifestyle he was willing to pay for, that he could afford on the wages he earned. He refused to finish college, which was a condition for living at home and he wanted to work min wage jobs and live with her cable tv, air conditioning, etc... and lecture her on how to spend her $$ and the evils of her job (teaching marketing which to him was teaching people to fool people so they buy things they don't need). He had zero problems living on the luxuries provided by her hard work and sanctimoniously lecturing her on the evils of that hard work. He worked hard at his jobs but told us all that his work as a landscaper or construction worker etc was somehow noble and so it was okay for him to live off of her education and hard work.

Your son does not want to work. He wants to live off of your money and lie to you. He will work, but needs supervision constantly and goes off with-o returning at the end of his break because he thought he could get away with it. Any other job would not keep him on with that type of behavior. Why should you? He needs to learn to live off of the fruits of his labors, whatever those might be.

Change those locks ASAP. You did a GOOD thing by imposing conditions and by making him leave. You did what any reasonable person would do.

 

[RN0441]

Copa - you did the right thing.

I think you just have to ask yourself one question, would anyone in the world allow your son, or anyone else for that matter, to do things they disapprove of on their property? I think not.

That is what I have to ask myself at times with my son and that makes my choices easier. He disrespected our home because he knew we loved him and he took advantage of that sorry to say.

 

[Copabanana]

It's the "playing us" that kills me.

Yes. I winced when I read this but it is true. There is a saying in prison "man up." Prisoners cannot tolerate in each other this very thing. (Nor cowardice or whining or deceit.) Imagine that. The men who as a group we think of as the most sociopathic within society, among themselves in their culture, will not tolerate bad character.

So if I look at that (and I have for a long time--but never have I seen it so clearly) this "playing us" has to be a lifestyle choice rather than a character flaw--at least prisoners believe it to be so. Like gypsys or Romanos, fleece but not their own.

The honor of thieves.

Walrus said "it was time to step away..." not walk away.

You are right about the difference. Huge. How part of me wishes I could walk away. Leave. But there is no walking away--I would walk away from myself. I would meet him everywhere I went.

I'll never stop hoping for different results but I have to the best of my ability got on my own ladder to simply watch.
A step away.

Yesterday, when I went to bed, I felt the kind of agony as if jilted, stood up. And fear and worry too. My son acts as if I put him in the street. Not him.

It's the "playing us" that kills me.

Yes. I winced when I read this but it is true. There is a saying in prison "man up." Prisoners cannot tolerate in each other this very thing. (Nor cowardice or whining or deceit.) Imagine that. The men who as a group we think of as the most sociopathic within society, among themselves in their culture, will not tolerate bad character.

So if I look at that (and I have for a long time--but never have I seen it so clearly) this "playing us" has to be a lifestyle choice rather than a character flaw--at least prisoners believe it to be so. Like gypsys or Romanos, fleece but not their own.

The honor of thieves.

Walrus said "it was time to step away..." not walk away.

You are right about the difference. Huge. How part of me wishes I could walk away. Leave. But there is no walking away--I would walk away from myself. I would meet him everywhere I went.

I'll never stop hoping for different results but I have to the best of my ability got on my own ladder to simply watch.
A step away.

Yesterday, when I went to bed, I felt the kind of agony as if jilted, stood up. And fear and worry too. My son acts as if I put him in the street. Not him:

there seems to be a disconnect between their actions and the fact that the consequences are a direct result.

I understand your words, PASA, but I do not understand it. He heard my voice. He consented. He chose to do the opposite, willingly and willfully. He was caught. He admitted it.

He believes in the infinite do over: Can we try this again? I am sure we will find a solution tomorrow

Those were his words. And when these do not work. MOOOOM. Can you put me in the street?

The insistence that responsibility and accountability exist in the other person. And actually, they do. He has forced my hand. This is the connection. The key to which RE refers with her daughter.

For me, each step of the way that I demanded my daughter to show up and respect my wishes when it came to her connection to MY life, she rose to the occasion, she improved and our relationship got better.

We must follow through with the consequence to force them to choose and to commit to what they want. We are modeling character. Until the decision is made by my son to choose to change. I must act for myself, and for him.

He has not returned the key to your home. That would concern me.

So everybody is concerned about the key. *Except me. Even though we went back last night to see if he had entered (not) my secret hope was that he had gone in. And was safe and comfortable. (Smile.)

I know. I know. I will ask M to change the lock today. He had volunteered.

He knows how much you love him. He has to love himself enough to make choices that reflect that self love. In my opinion, you are helping him do that.

Yes. This is it in a nutshell. Thank you.

Copa, you are amazing to me really.

Thank you, Lil. But I came here to CD when my son was already 26 years old (now 27). I am way behind you.

You know more about what he can and can't do than anyone else Copa.

Lil. This is a very good point. And it is hard to hold onto. "Experts" try to cow me. Shame me.

You are right. I am the expert on him. Actually, I ask M to buck me up. M said last night (he from Mexico). There are millions of millions of people who have somebody in them who is a weak link. But each of them steps up and does what they can. He uses the phrase to make the fight.

I answered something sad. Well, they did not have me as their mother. He did not answer.

M believes in the dignity of owning the responsibility and the commitment. That that is the whole point. He began to work at 5 years old, to help his mother feed the family.

I don't recall what he receives SSI for, or why he has a medical marijuana card?

He receives SSI for mental illness. Mood disorder.

I believe it was made easy for him because when I adopted him he was in the system in the county in which he applied for SSI. And the psychiatric nurse who made the decision told me that he did based upon my son's history and because of his caring for him. Wrong.

Where I live it is easy to get a medical marijuana card. I could get one too. Great. Just the key.

I think that you've actually paid your son a great compliment, though he won't see it that way, by putting him out. You're holding him to the same standard you would any other adult.

Wow. Lil. I love what you have written here.

I was so afraid when I came here. I think I changed when I confronted I could not keep him alive. That he could die from his Hep-B (or any other thing) and I could not stop it. I am still afraid, but the fear is in the dark corner of the cage. (I use to go to the zoo a lot as a child. Actually the image of tiger's cage came to mind right now.)

And it is heartbreaking to be in this position as a parent.

It is. But the way I am seeing it, after reading all of you guy's lovely and illuminating posts, is that I am building character too through this process. And in that way I am building culture too. With you.

Your son does not want to work. He wants to live off of your money and lie to you.

Yes. I winced when I read this. It is true. Put this way, there is no way I could have tolerated more. The least of it was to be a doormat. The worst, to enable him to be this: A liar and a mooch.

He needs to learn to live off of the fruits of his labors, whatever those might be.

This is exactly the truth.

The only thing he is motivated to do is to get his marijuana and maintain his SSI. He said it: The one thing I really want is to do whatever I can to keep my SSI.

His sense of himself as a person is so reduced, that this is what it has come to.

I answered him. I do not care if you keep your SSI. That is not my concern. But if you are near me, you will be productive, and you have constructive goals. Be it college, volunteer work, work with us. Or you will not be with us.

Thank you everybody. This thread is hallowed ground to me.

 

[Albatross]

I don't have anything to add that hasn't been said already, and probably said better than I can. The bare truth of it is he had a great hand up extended to him, and what was expected in return was minimal and completely reasonable. He could have said, "No, won't do it" if he wasn't buying in. Instead he waited for you to call him on it, and let you be the one to agonize over the decision. Where is the responsibility in that?

We all have seen what happens if things go unchecked, not to mention we shouldn't even have to be checking them anymore in the first place! I think u absolutely did the right thing Copa. It wouldn't have gotten any better, at least not right now.

 

[Childofmine]

Copa, I think we can go out of our minds trying to figure out to do more, or less, or one more thing, or give them one more day, or say this one additional thing, or stop and say no more...on and on. There is no possible way to know for sure what is best for them. Only they can decide what is best for them, and when, and how, and why.

I spent months and years trying to do the above, and I thought I would go absolutely crazy trying to figure how the "right" thing to do.

In the end, it came down to this, for me...figuring out what worked for ME, not for him. And in our culture today, we moms and dads, it sounds awful to put "us" first. What about our hurting, struggling, sick, disabled, mentally ill kids? What about them?

Well, what about them? If they will not get help and comply with help and refuse to conform to any real level, we can only stop the madness of trying and trying...trying so hard...to make another human being do something they absolutely do not want to do.

I believe the energy has to shift to us, and to our lives, and yes, I know there are so many variables, and diagnoses and specific situations that are different, and that is why it is up to each person to set their own boundaries and ground rules and to know when they are done or not done, and when they want to try again, or not try again...and letting each other have that respect and dignity to figure it out for ourselves, what works for us, just for today, is a worthy goal here.

I can only imagine that is was very hard for you to say no more this time. I know he made progress, and has made progress, and that makes it ever more confusing and hard to set a new boundary.

But I think you are doing what works for you, today. And that can change, and you are the only one, who gets to say when that change occurs.

I remember in Al-Anon there was once a very strong focus on this Phrase: You have choices.

I think many of us felt that we actually had NO choices, that we were at the beck and call and whim of our addicts and mentally ill persons who we love so much.

But we do have choices. For some of us, for me, I learned that for me and my Difficult Child, my highest and greatest love for him was illustrated by leaving him alone for long periods of time. Just completely getting out of the way and staying out of the way. So he could figure his own life out.

That was very very hard for me to do. But it was right for me and for him, in this case. That doesn't mean it would be right, or maybe it would be right, for anyone else.

Warm hugs for you today. I can only hope and pray that something good comes from this, and he will again take another step forward. His choice.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

Yes to both. He broke my foot (denies it) about 10 years ago. He gave M a black eye about a year ago.

Both times he believed he was responding defensively. I was angry at him and later, so was M. I do not fear him. He has no history of violence with anybody else.

He is no longer even argumentative with us. I am not sure what changed.

There are very few things more dangerous than a desperate addict with a violent past. It is like a ticking time bomb. He is going to need to get that under control. He cannot really expect you to have him around if there's even the smallest chance that he is going to physically harm you. Is he just prone to rages? Does he have full recollection of his actions while enraged? I know you say he denied the foot thing, but is that a pattern for him?

I am sorry that you fear physical harm from him on top of all the normal stuff addicts are doing. That said, there is no excuse for hitting your own mother... Hurting people is generally wrong, but doing it to the person who brought you into this world is... Pathetic. I try not to be sexist, but one thing I still hold onto from my mother is that women are to be treated well. Also learned that from watching my father beat the out of her. Not cool to hit girls, unless it is self defense. Any other reason is not good enough. It is so wrong.

 

[Copabanana]

The bare truth of it is he had a great hand up extended to him, and what was expected in return was minimal and completely reasonable. He could have said, "No, won't do it" if he wasn't buying in. Instead he waited for you to call him on it

You see, Albatross, he did buy in--to the part of it he wanted: housing and proximity to us. He never did buy in to his part: commit to work, no marijuana. Even though that too, was for him. He said, yes, to the house, yes to our home, yes to a million ways his life got better--I mean it really did. He worked alongside other men. He had neighbors who watched out for him with whom he felt a community. He had stability and security.

But to him, this was not worth, something in return. The acceptance of any condition. Telling the truth.

He played along and he played us.

It will be a while before I extend a hand or believe anything he says unless he shows me with deeds that it is his decision.

trying so hard...to make another human being do something they absolutely do not want to do.

Yes. This is it. Seeing it this way hurts. But it is true.

There was an inequality in the balance of power. He saw it as submitting to a forced choice, to get something he needed and wanted. Housing.

He felt all of the other things, our conditions to be something forced upon him. So he opposed them. With stealth. Kind of like a master-slave relationship. When the master was away, he asserted or subverted--covertly. He resisted.

It is all so clear now.

Does this mean that the whole idea is wrong--that we help him with housing? I do not know now.

what works for us, just for today, is a worthy goal here.

Yes.

But I need to understand too, how I help or hurt my son. So as to know what to do. Engaging in some arrangement with him that will backfire sooner or later, is not what works for me. (Except, I can decide to see what has happened as not a failure, but a course--to be followed or not by another.) What I do not and cannot allow of myself is elf-deception. Engaging in a relationship that feels like it is support but is corrupted, from the start.

I have culpability here, too, if it was an illusion--a power play by me--in the guise of something else.

As sure as day he will approach us and want to try again.

my highest and greatest love for him was illustrated by leaving him alone for long periods of time.

While I can see this for you, COM, it is hard for me to accept that those years when my son was away--and I closed my heart--was my greatest hour.

These few months of closeness, I opened my heart again. How was it wrong that I did this? That is the struggle.

So he could figure his own life out.

Yes. And no. My son succeeded in mooching on people and getting SSI. Becoming homeless and couch surfing.

The accomplishments of the past year? No longer violent or argumentative with us. Docile with M. Moderately respectful towards me. Loving sometimes.

Has completely curbed his talking to me about conspiracy theories.

Hardly a life plan.

Is he just prone to rages?

No.

Honestly, in some ways I am more confused than when I started this thread. I agree with RE. I see things the same way. When we set boundaries, and require good behavior towards us--they change--in themselves.

But I agree with COM, too, in principle. That leaving them alone to figure out their lives makes sense, too.

How I can reconcile the two, is that our kids are different. I do not believe that my son is going to come up with and implement a life plan alone. at this point. He is going to need support.

I know he wants to go back to college. Some day. I realize I cannot control the doing of this. Ever.

Securing an apartment, finding a room in a house with others, with a rental agreement, honestly, I do not see my son doing this, anytime soon. I am not sure why. Because he has not done it, yet?

I guess all I can do right now is go on with my own life. He will call. That I know. He will think it through. He will come up with something.

Having this thread is so helpful, because it will be a map of where we have been, the wrong turns, and where we need to go. He will have to address each and every single wrong turn and come up with a plan to address it that makes sense.

There will no place to stay, upfront. He knows now what is possible, he just needs to decide if it is worth it. He is presented with a fork in the road. Let him decide.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

You see, Albatross, he did buy in--to the part of it he wanted: housing and proximity to us. He never did buy in to his part: commit to work, no marijuana. Even though that too, was for him. He said, yes, to the house, yes to our home, yes to a million ways his life got better--I mean it really did. He worked alongside other men. He had neighbors who watched out for him with whom he felt a community. He had stability and security.

But to him, this was not worth, something in return. The acceptance of any condition. Telling the truth.

He played along and he played us.

It will be a while before I extend a hand or believe anything he says unless he shows me with deeds that it is his decision.
Yes. This is it. Seeing it this way hurts. But it is true.

There was an inequality in the balance of power. He saw it as submitting to a forced choice, to get something he needed and wanted. Housing.

He felt all of the other things, our conditions to be something forced upon him. So he opposed them. With stealth. Kind of like a master-slave relationship. When the master was away, he asserted or subverted--covertly. He resisted.

It is all so clear now.

Does this mean that the whole idea is wrong--that we help him with housing? I do not know now.
Yes.

But I need to understand too, how I help or hurt my son. So as to know what to do. Engaging in some arrangement with him that will backfire sooner or later, is not what works for me. (Except, I can decide to see what has happened as not a failure, but a course--to be followed or not by another.) What I do not and cannot allow of myself is elf-deception. Engaging in a relationship that feels like it is support but is corrupted, from the start.

I have culpability here, too, if it was an illusion--a power play by me--in the guise of something else.

As sure as day he will approach us and want to try again.
While I can see this for you, COM, it is hard for me to accept that those years when my son was away--and I closed my heart--was my greatest hour.

These few months of closeness, I opened my heart again. How was it wrong that I did this? That is the struggle.
Yes. And no. My son succeeded in mooching on people and getting SSI. Becoming homeless and couch surfing.

The accomplishments of the past year? No longer violent or argumentative with us. Docile with M. Moderately respectful towards me. Loving sometimes.

Has completely curbed his talking to me about conspiracy theories.

Hardly a life plan.
No.

Honestly, in some ways I am more confused than when I started this thread. I agree with RE. I see things the same way. When we set boundaries, and require good behavior towards us--they change--in themselves.

But I agree with COM, too, in principle. That leaving them alone to figure out their lives makes sense, too.

How I can reconcile the two, is that our kids are different. I do not believe that my son is going to come up with and implement a life plan alone. at this point. He is going to need support.

I know he wants to go back to college. Some day. I realize I cannot control the doing of this. Ever.

Securing an apartment, finding a room in a house with others, with a rental agreement, honestly, I do not see my son doing this, anytime soon. I am not sure why. Because he has not done it, yet?

I guess all I can do right now is go on with my own life. He will call. That I know. He will think it through. He will come up with something.

Having this thread is so helpful, because it will be a map of where we have been, the wrong turns, and where we need to go. He will have to address each and every single wrong turn and come up with a plan to address it that makes sense.

There will no place to stay, upfront. He knows now what is possible, he just needs to decide if it is worth it. He is presented with a fork in the road. Let him decide.

You've come to accept it for what it is. And that is really good. You don't need to lose all hope for him. I don't think you could if you wanted to. You just gotta accept that you cannot do it for him. Nor should you.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

The patience you guys have never ceases to amaze me. My aunt included. Yesterday, my sister shows up completely unannounced, which is very strange. You could tell she was coming down from a binge, and was basically looking for a punching bag. She chose my aunt. She wasn't insulting her, or anything, just venting in a very frustrating, inappropriate manner. Ignored her daughter, who I had to bring into my room and crank up my music so she wouldn't have to listen to it. And so I wouldn't have to hear it. It is very difficult for me to hear that level of disrespect and complete lack of consideration for my aunt. My aunt just took it all, until sister was worn out. Then offered her practical advice. Not once losing her cool throughout the whole episode.

I don't know how you guys do it. I made it about 3 minutes before I had to consciously hold myself back from getting involved. I told her that, if she wanted to use her outside voice, I will put her outside. And I was dead serious.

 

[Copabanana]

You just gotta accept that you cannot do it for him. Nor should you.

So I went to Walmart, and on the way I thought of a plan. A plan for me.

If he contacts me and wants to return to live in the house.

One, if he asks me if we can try again (at this point I do not know where he is and has no phone) I will ask him what he wants, what are his plans about life. And I will listen.

Two, I will respond by telling him that housing with me comes as a consequence of deciding and working towards changes in his life. That I understand it is his business, what he wants and how to live. But if he chooses to want to change, before he lives in the house he needs to demonstrate to me, first, the following:

A clean drug test.

A decision of what he chooses to commit himself to, for the next year, and idea what he wants to attain in the next 5 years.

If college is one of his goals, I want to see that he has assembled his past transcripts of completed work, spoken to a college counselor, applied for admission and for financial aid and completed one online course (self paced).

If he decides upon a goal other than college, I want to see a similar plan of action and the beginning phase completed.

Consistent with my conditions before, he will need to work with us on the remodel of the house. But before he lives with us, he needs to establish he is ready to self-monitor, work well and consistently without supervision.

If he commits to the above, and puts into place one piece of it he is welcome to stay overnight once a week.

Does this seem out of line?

I understand that I cannot control what he wants or how he wants to live. But I can control my conditions, as requirements for my help.

 

[Copabanana]

It is a good thing I do not know where he is and have no way to contact him. That is all I can say.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

It is a good thing I do not know where he is and have no way to contact him. That is all I can say.

No, not out of line the least. In fact, most people in similar positions as your son would be quite envious of this.

If it is something you're capable of doing, and willing to do, that's excellent. He is lucky to have somebody like you. You have the right idea. Words aren't good enough from an addict. It's either put up, or shut up. And you insisting he actually demonstrate these things to you, as opposed to just promising he has no intention of doing, is excellent. I mean, it sets a very clear outline for what you expect from him if he chooses to participate. Which means, if he dicks it up, you can point to this post and remind him that THIS is what you expected, and what he agreed to. Hopefully, that will take away some of those guilty feelings you get when he slips up. It NEEDS to be in writing. We try to weasel our way out of EVERY negative consequence, and some of us are very good at it. Aunt says I should have been a lawyer. I am a master wordsmith. Of the highest caliber. When making arrangements with addicts like myself, it needs to be in writing, in no uncertain terms. No shaky terminology that can be exploited. I know it sounds crazy, but we survive off of being able to bullshit everybody. To manipulate everybody around us. We will sniff out any loop hole that exists.

So, I would suggest you put all of that in writing. Make sure he reads it and acknowledges every single point. Make sure there is NO confusion on what is expected of him if he chooses to take advantage of your incredible generosity, and what will happen if he chooses to violate those conditions.

 

[Copabanana]

Aunt says I should have been a lawyer. I am a master wordsmith.

Darkwing, thank you very much for your reply. It means a great deal to me.

I am curious. What are your plans? I agree, you write very, very well and I assume you are articulate to the same degree.

My thinking about careers is that it is often not the best thing to pick a career based upon strengths. Why, you may ask? Because sometimes what comes easy to us allows us to slide through in life, rather than have to build character in ourselves, as I am having to do in myself vis a vis my son.

I was a laissez-faire parent. Live and let live. Actually more to the point, I was like that artist from France, Rousseau, that's his name who believed in the noble savage. That we were born good and our nature if just left alone would flower.

I know now that people are constructed and construct themselves.

My son thrived with this kind of parenting. Up to a point. But the real world demands more than mother love. And in not demanding more, and investing more than love, I let him down. At the time I was told by a psychiatrist that it had been wise to limit my demands on him. Right or wrong, I do not intend keeping to the same plan.

I am curious what you have thought of doing, in terms of work/career.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

Darkwing, thank you very much for your reply. It means a great deal to me.

I am curious. What are your plans? I agree, you write very, very well and I assume you are articulate to the same degree.

My thinking about careers is that it is often not the best thing to pick a career based upon strengths. Why, you may ask? Because sometimes what comes easy to us allows us to slide through in life, rather than have to build character in ourselves, as I am having to do in myself vis a vis my son.

I was a laissez-faire parent. Live and let live. Actually more to the point, I was like that artist from France, Rousseau, that's his name who believed in the noble savage. That we were born good and our nature if just left alone would flower.

I know now that people are constructed and construct themselves.

My son thrived with this kind of parenting. Up to a point. But the real world demands more than mother love. And in not demanding more, and investing more than love, I let him down. At the time I was told by a psychiatrist that it had been wise to limit my demands on him. Right or wrong, I do not intend keeping to the same plan.

I am curious what you have thought of doing, in terms of work/career.

My plans? Hmm...... This is a difficult question to answer. Years ago, I had many plans, and I was well on my way towards fulfilling them. I was a 4.0 student until my junior year in high school, also working as a manager at a local Subway Sandwich shop. I was actively planning out a college education, hoping to get into psychology.

Then my world fell apart. And I was nowhere near prepared to deal with it. I cannot blame my situation on anybody else, as I made all the decisions that got me to this point, but not all of my bad decisions were intentional. Many of them came about because I didn't see any other options, or possibilities. I honestly did not expect to still be alive this long, and I lived my life as if I was going to die before any of it mattered. I spent years dismantling my life in every way. And I don't know how to put it back together.

I have no plans.... It is depressing to think about, but it is the truth. I have NO long term plans. My short term plans include doing the very best I can for this baby for as long as we have her. Pretty soon, she will be old enough for day care, and I can go back to working my menial, warehouse work. Aside from that, I got nothing. I don't even know what I would like to do anymore. I realize it has only been a few years since my life was relatively normal, but it seems like an entirely different life when I look back on it. I wish I had a better answer to your question, but I do not. I don't even know where to start anymore.

 

[TheWalrus]

I don't know how it is with your son but that would not work with my daughter. She knows the "carrots" to dangle in front of me if I were to ask her what she wanted and a commitment to working together. For my daughter, she will tell me whatever I want to here to get what she wants or needs for as long as she needs it or until she, like your son, begins "slipping" and it all falls apart.

I don't think they know what they want. I don't think they can follow through with even simple goals for long. I think it may, sometimes, start out with good intentions. I think they may even believe themselves when they tell us the things we want to hear. But old habits, old behaviors, old ways of thinking are too hard to let go of and it is too much work, too much effort to consciously create new behaviors, habits, thinking patterns. Because it would have to be a conscious effort, a rebuilding of self. A form of reflection they aren't ready to see.

Many adults never make it to a level of self-reflection that directs their thinking to themselves - what did I do in this situation? what can I do differently? what is my responsibility/role in this? how did I affect others?

Many adults never make it to any other point of view but their own, look at things from another person's experiences, feelings, role in a situation.

And we are dealing with "adults" who are already operating at a lower level than normal of self-reflection, abstract thinking, and responsibility and a higher than normal level of impulsivity, sense of entitlement, and immaturity. Add to that addiction...psychological disorders...past traumas...feelings of abandonment...self-loathing...insecurity... a host of other things our adult children deal with in combination, and there is so, so much for them to overcome.

If I could transplant my sense of self, dignity, motivation, and independence into my daughter, I would. But I can't.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

I had a girlfriend who I started dating months after my mom died. I love her more than anything. And she put up with me at my absolute worst. I had many plans with her. After 4 years together, I genuinely never considered that I may lose her at some point. She was perfect. And the she put up with... She was a recreational drinker, and smoked some pot here and there, but I was the junkie. Kept her up countless nights with cold sweats, and my incessant kicking. Her mom allowed me to stay in their home for long stretches of time. Literally, I would not have survived without her. Then I got clean, and everything changed. I don't understand it even now, a few years after the fact. She actually ended up leaving the night after we had the other baby, Chris, taken from us by CPS. Not a very good couple of days for me. I was more shocked than anything, though. I mean, the thought of not having her around never once crossed my mind. The closest thing I had to any long term plans all included her. And weren't possible without her.

So, here I am, unable to answer what should be a simple question about what I would like out of life. Even if I try to imagine that EVERYTHING in my life was perfect, I still cannot tell you what I'd want from it. The only tangible things I had for years were this girlfriend, and my group of friends who helped keep me alive. I don't have those things anymore, and I am struggling to find purpose outside of them. When you become addicted to drugs, EVERYTHING you enjoy slowly falls to the side. Even the things you enjoy most of all. Your hobbies, your taste in music, even your sex drive. None of those things are going to help get you drugs, and will probably hinder the pursuit by wasting time and money on them. So they no longer matter. Plans you busted your ass for your entire life goes next. Then your relationships with the people you love, and (in my case) the very few who truly love you back. Until you are left with NOTHING but the drug, and the pursuit of the drug. So, when you sober up, you don't have a life to really go back it. It is what makes it so ing difficult, and scary. Slowly, you will begin to enjoy music again, sleep starts going back to normal, sex drive returns, etc. But you are left with the consequences of your actions during all the time you were using. This usually means burned bridges with those loved ones, loss of employment, and goals you were actively pursuing before the drugs.

I really just do not know. I haven't been clean for that long, though. Just recently, I have started getting somewhat back to normal physically. More motivation, more energy, better appetite, more sleep, etc. We don't ruin our lives overnight, and we cannot expect to repair them over night, It takes time. It is a process. I am working on the things I can change for now. Maybe, after I am more grounded, I will be able to provide a better answer to your question. It seems like I have come a very long way, but I haven't. Not in the grand scheme of things. I have only gotten through the easy part, and I am struggling to get through this more difficult part. I still feel almost completely useless much of the time.

Sorry. I didn't mean to ramble on about my . Just reflecting.

I genuinely wish I had had somebody like you. Not saying that would have saved me from all of this, but nobody offered me any second or third chance (aside from this aunt, recently). If your son doesn't learn that he is much luckier than many of us, he is going to have a rough time with real humility. He is being given an opportunity that not everybody gets. It is his responsibility to take advantage of that.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

I don't know how it is with your son but that would not work with my daughter. She knows the "carrots" to dangle in front of me if I were to ask her what she wanted and a commitment to working together. For my daughter, she will tell me whatever I want to here to get what she wants or needs for as long as she needs it or until she, like your son, begins "slipping" and it all falls apart.

I don't think they know what they want. I don't think they can follow through with even simple goals for long. I think it may, sometimes, start out with good intentions. I think they may even believe themselves when they tell us the things we want to hear. But old habits, old behaviors, old ways of thinking are too hard to let go of and it is too much work, too much effort to consciously create new behaviors, habits, thinking patterns. Because it would have to be a conscious effort, a rebuilding of self. A form of reflection they aren't ready to see.

Many adults never make it to a level of self-reflection that directs their thinking to themselves - what did I do in this situation? what can I do differently? what is my responsibility/role in this? how did I affect others?

Many adults never make it to any other point of view but their own, look at things from another person's experiences, feelings, role in a situation.

And we are dealing with "adults" who are already operating at a lower level than normal of self-reflection, abstract thinking, and responsibility and a higher than normal level of impulsivity, sense of entitlement, and immaturity. Add to that addiction...psychological disorders...past traumas...feelings of abandonment...self-loathing...insecurity... a host of other things our adult children deal with in combination, and there is so, so much for them to overcome.

If I could transplant my sense of self, dignity, motivation, and independence into my daughter, I would. But I can't.

The most noticeable trait of a drug addict is their need for instant gratification. They would rather have less now than more later. This is true for EVERY addict I have ever spoken with. We live as if everyday will be our last, because it very well might be. We don't plan years ahead. , I barely planned hours ahead. Being a young addict only compounds that problem. Being so young, we are already reckless, and rarely consider long term effects. Add drugs to the mix, and you have a disaster just waiting to happen. It shows in our behaviors, and the way we think.

 

[Copabanana]

Darkwing, in many ways my situation is not unlike your own. My elderly mother became ill. I decided to take care of her. She died. My life turned inside out. I became a person almost unrecognizable to myself. I have not worked for 3 and a half years. I am not sure if I will ever work again although I believe I will.

I had to ask myself what I wanted to live for...but still have not been able to pick up the pieces of who I am and go forward. My life is almost one hundred percent centered upon home. It never was before.

hoping to get into psychology.

I had thought this.

I lived my life as if I was going to die before any of it mattered

Is it you feel that things that happened to you during that period define you in a way that you cannot surmount, or is it something else?

I don't know how to put it back together.

In the sense that who you believe you now are, you do not know how to stuff that back into a persona that would pursue a goal such as psychology, or you do not want to?

Do you not want to go through the motions? I can understand that. I feel that way. Sometimes the motions are just to much for me. I feel barely able to sustain my life, without working. Perhaps this is a choice. Or maybe I just cannot do it anymore.

The difference is I am old. You are young. While we can argue that my life, whatever time I have left, matters, it is not the same.

I realize it has only been a few years since my life was relatively normal, but it seems like an entirely different life when I look back on it.

I certainly understand this.


Take care, Darkwing and thank you.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

Darkwing, in many ways my situation is not unlike your own. My elderly mother became ill. I decided to take care of her. She died. My life turned inside out. I became a person almost unrecognizable to myself. I have not worked for 3 and a half years. I am not sure if I will ever work again although I believe I will.

I had to ask myself what I wanted to live for...but still have not been able to pick up the pieces of who I am and go forward. My life is almost one hundred percent centered upon home. It never was before.I had thought this.
Is it you feel that things that happened to you during that period define you in a way that you cannot surmount, or is it something else?
In the sense that who you believe you now are, you do not know how to stuff that back into a persona that would pursue a goal such as psychology, or you do not want to?

Do you not want to go through the motions? I can understand that. I feel that way. Sometimes the motions are just to much for me. I feel barely able to sustain my life, without working. Perhaps this is a choice. Or maybe I just cannot do it anymore.

The difference is I am old. You are young. While we can argue that my life, whatever time I have left, matters, it is not the same.
I certainly understand this.


Take care, Darkwing and thank you.

Unfortunately, we will NEVER be the person we were before the drugs. We might get very close, but a drug addiction is the kind of thing that changes you in noticeable ways.