My son relapsed....

DarkwingPsyduck

Active Member
Yes yes thank you for your insight. I probably won't talk to him until tomorrow but what you have said it PRICELESS. Thank you so much.

Please don't be offended but I am so glad to see that your drug use has not damaged your brain...you are extremely intelligent and articulate. Wow. I've been dealing with this for years and I can tell you that your knowledge and articulation is well above anyone I have ever spoken to.

What was your drug of choice and how did you finally get clean? NA? rehab? How long have you been clean.

You give us all HOPE.


:)

I was on opiates of any kind, but preferably oxycodone. But I did 'em all. Opana, Morphine, Dilaudid, Hydrocodone, etc. Amazingly, I only ever did heroin twice. Most people go from pills to straight heroin due to the cost effectivness of it. I was using anywhere from 300-400mg of oxycodone a day. Usually, I had the 30mg IR oxycodone, or Roxicodone. When I was using, the pills went for about 15 a pop retail. I would buy in bulk from a Hell's Angel (big presence here in Reno) at 6-8 bux, and sell for 15. You'd think I'd have been LOADED, but I was broke. Always. Every dime went straight up my own nose. I realized that the size of the habit is generally equal to the access you have. If I had less, I could make do with it. If I had more, that'd be my habit. I was only using habitually for 3-4 years. Aside from that, I was a heavy binge drinker, but never anything resembling an alcoholic. I was 16, and on my own. Living off the good graces of girlfriends' and friends' parents whenever possible. I only had to be outside overnight a hand full of times, but that was bad enough. My friends an I would get hammered whenever we could. I was young, and didn't have a whole lot going for me.

I got clean the exact same way every other addict gets clean. That's to say, I struggled, and failed more times than I am proud of. I got better, then got worse, then kinda stagnated. I tried to do it on my own for 2 years straight, without ever bringing it up with my aunt or uncle. They knew, because they weren't blind or stupid, but they waited for me to approach them. Finally, I became desperate. With head hung, I swallowed my pride and talked to my aunt about it. Which is what she had been waiting for. I went into a Suboxone treatment program that had pretty strict rules. At first, I only got 1 week supplies at a time, and had to pee clean every week. I did that without issue for the first year, then was on a normal monthly schedule, as well as NA meetings. Finally realized that my doctor had no intention of getting me clean. He wasn't pushing me to drop my dose at all, and he never brought up the future. Once a month, I would go into his office, step on a scale, piss in a cup, and get handed my prescription. He had a financial incentive not to push the matter at all. So I started doing it myself. It was incredibly difficult. I had been on it for far too long without tapering a single time, so even the smallest drops were felt. Nowhere near as bad as the withdrawal from 300mg of oxycodone, but pretty bad. In one year, I went from 8mg a day to 2mg a day. Finally, I got into it with my doctor, and refused to go back. I took 1 year to drop 6mg, and 1 month to drop 2mg. Didn't sleep for 5 days. Went down to 110lbs. It has only been about a year since my last dose, and I am STILL not entirely 100%. I still feel residual physical and mental symptom. Called Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms, or PAWS. It gets easier, just at a snail's pace.

Like I said, it isn't that your son WANTS to fail. But failing is much harder than not trying at all. After so many relapses, I was at the point where I was afraid to try again because I didn't want to fail. I didn't want to disappointment my aunt anymore. Didn't want to get her hopes up, only to blow it days or weeks later. I think your son probably feels the same way.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Yes. Once they are serious you don't wonder about it. They sacrifice to be sober. My daughter moved to another state and stopped contacting her drug buddies. She was very lonely, but determined She did not make new drug friends. She walked to and from work, no complaining. She just totally changed.
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
SWOT: My son did not seek this out but he could not walk away from the temptation. Not that it makes it any better but he wasn't actively looking to do what he did. It makes me VERY SAD. I know it is because he wasn't strong enough becauese he did not work hard enough to get the support he did not think he needed.

Darkwing: Thank you for sharing. I honestly don't know where my son is on this journey. We sent him 1500 miles away to work on himself and get sober so he can go to college which is his dream. He just wants the easy way. You are so right.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
RN, when he is ready, he will be. I doubt my daughter never again saw drugs or people who use drugs and before she was ready, she put herself in considerable danger. She had drug dealers after her. I didnt know any of this, thankfully.

When your son is sick and tired of drugs, you will see a big attitute change. He could be there now. You know him. See if his latest scare makes hin work harder in his recovery.

We all feel bad for our kids. We love them. But it doesn't help their mental illnesses and drug problems to make excuses for behavior that can kill them. If they have anxiety or depression, so do millions of others...anxiety is the most common mental illness and is very treatable. So is depression. They, as adults, need to take the lead in getting mental health treatment. How does meth or heroin or cocaine help anxiety or depression?

They are smart. They know that treatment could help them, but it takes work. I speak as one who cant remember a time when I didn't fight severe depression and anxiety, but I got help and tried hard and its so much better. Not every anxious or depressed person takes recreational drugs. Anxiety, in particular, CAN get much better with only therapy.

I made my daughter leave so that maybe she would quit using speed and meth. She looked like a walking corpse. She was lucky that she quit before her very straight brother, who took her in, threw her out. She did decide to quit,with her boyfriends help. It has been eleven or twelve normal years since. When asked why she quit she said,"Drug life is too hard."

I think it works better if we cry privately, but let them fend for themselves. My daughter had a basement to live in, but her brother is not warm or caring (Goneboy) and kept telling her that if she lit up one cigarette, didnt clean the house, didnt cook, cook or didnt work to pay rent, she was gone. He meant it. She didnt want to be homeless. She knew him best. He makes no idle threats. He can be ice cold.

I was surprised at how well she did. And has continued to do. She knew that Goneboy would cut her not one inch of slack. Ske knew I'd waver. She did great with serious tough love.

Gone boy may no longer want to be in our lives, but he did help my daughter quit speed and meth and psychodelics and downers for sleep. I will always be grateful to him for that. I really believed she'd end up in prison or die. Instead, she went back to school, bought a hone with her boyfriend of twelve years snd us the awesome mother of my precious granddaughter.
 
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DarkwingPsyduck

Active Member
Yes. Once they are serious you don't wonder about it. They sacrifice to be sober. My daughter moved to another state and stopped contacting her drug buddies. She was very lonely, but determined She did not make new drug friends. She walked to and from work, no complaining. She just totally changed.

It always shows. I love my friends. They are my brothers. I have survived this long because of them. Even my girlfriends were second to them. Cutting ties with them was incredibly difficult, but necessary. Very serious problems require very serious actions.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
it was hard for my daughter too. Amongst the "wild" kids in our neighborhood, she was immensely popular, perhaps the most popular girl, in that criwd, at her school. Her drug use, she says, stemmed from being so shy that she felt like a nobody. Obviously drug use changed that.

Without drugs she gave up her rock star status and had no friends at all unyil she met her boyfriend. To this day she is shy and her boyfriend is her best friend and she does not have many girlfriends. But she is comfortable with herself now.
 

DarkwingPsyduck

Active Member
it was hard for my daughter too. Amongst the "wild" kids in our neighborhood, she was immensely popular, perhaps the most popular girl, in that criwd, at her school. Her drug use, she says, stemmed from being so shy that she felt like a nobody. Obviously drug use changed that.

Without drugs she gave up her rock star status and had no friends at all unyil she met her boyfriend. To this day she is shy and her boyfriend is her best friend and she does not have many girlfriends. But she is comfortable with herself now.


It's incredible how drugs reverse everything, isn't it? I was the same way as your daughter. Immensely popular with just about everybody in my high school. There was no clique I wasn't cool with. Now I suffer from social anxiety. Socializing became dependent on mild altering substances. Started out with drinking, but at least I ONLY did that socially. Then the pills came along. Then I couldn't do :censored2: without them. Couldn't enjoy anything without them. Couldn't enjoy spending time with my friends without drugs. Couldn't even have sex without drugs. I think I truly accepted that I had a very serious problem when I realized that I wasn't taking drugs to get high anymore. I was taking them just to not feel like death incarnate. I was continuing to use drugs despite the fact that the recreational value was gone entirely. THAT was when I finally saw it for what it really was.
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
SWOT - I love your daughter's story. Amazing that she sort of did it on her own and maybe that was Goneboy's sole purpose in your life? If so, so be it.

Darkwing - I have been thinking a lot about what you have said. I imagine I'll talk to my son today. This is the first day he can use the house phone. I think he may be pissed off at me and his dad because they took away his phone and computer and we gave them permission since those items belong to us. His car (also ours) is completely off limits for a very long time. Of course I don't care if he is mad. I have many more tools than I had a week ago before his overdose.

This has changed me and I can only hope it changed him.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
could be,RN. Before he met his wife, he was close to her. He dumped her after that and it broke her heart, but he did contribute to her ability to quit the drugs that were killing her.

Her story is unusual and amazing. She did not go to rehab or Twelve Step meetings. I dont know how she did it except that she is stubborn and a rather strong person.
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
My son is stubborn and strong willed too so if he lives long enough to "get it" I think he'll do good.

My husband is like that - when he is on a diet there ain't nothing he'll do to go astray; he cannot be tempted. I find his mindset amazing!! My son did inherit that trait which can be good or it can be a :censored2:!
 

DarkwingPsyduck

Active Member
I say that recovery requires treatment, but I do not specify. Most people believe that NA/AA is the ONLY way to treat addiction, and it isn't. It is one way, which has resulted in much success, but there are others. Some people cannot do it with all the religious undertones. That always bothered me, as well. When I was doing NA, I did it because it was required to continue my Suboxone treatment. I benefited from it, but it wasn't even the main focus of my recovery. Whenever I hear about, or speak to, a chronic relapser who is dead set against NA/AA, it isn't NA/AA that they are really opposed to. It is treatment in general. They want their problem to just go away magically, without having to face the hard realities required for recovery. They wouldn't go to a completely secular meeting if one was even near them.

I doubt your daughter just ran away and that fixed her problem entirely. A trap a lot of addicts fall into is thinking that a geographical change is all they need. To get away from their contacts and connections. That is a very good step, but it isn't good enough alone. What happens when you happen to stumble upon another connection in your new town? You did NOTHING to deal with the reasons you use drugs in the first place, and you will be very likely to fall back into it. Your daughter is a rarity. A truly incredible woman.
 

Kathy813

Well-Known Member
Staff member
This has changed me and I can only hope it changed him.

Unfortunately, I wouldn't count on that. My daughter overdosed on heroin on our couch. My husband came home from school to find her cold and unresponsive. Luckily, our cleaning lady was there that day and heard him screaming our daughters name and she called 911. They took turns doing compressions until the EMT's got here and administered Narcan. The EMT's told my husband that if he had gotten there two minutes later she would have died.

I thought coming that close to dying would change her. Nope. She didn't even remember it and kept right on doing drugs. She told us recently that she had overdosed several times before that.

Overdoses don't seem to scare addicts at least not enough to quit using.

~Kathy
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Kathy:

I now remember reading about the couch incident. I didn't know who had written it though. I am glad she is doing better now.

I am just taking one day at a time right now. I don't know what else to do.
 

DarkwingPsyduck

Active Member
I'm glad you are able to find something I say practical, and not just rhetorical. Being an adult does not mean that we get to do whatever the hell we want, just because we managed to survive 18 years. While you cannot control him, you can refuse to help him self destruct, and you can deny him of all of the comforts you provide for him. You pay for his :censored2:, he has no real right to it. If he wants to enjoy these things, he's going to have to make progress. He has no right to enjoy the benefits of YOUR hard work. You're doing the right thing by making his life style as uncomfortable as you legally can. The sooner he hits his bottom, the sooner progress can be made. You didn't push him into this hole, but he knew better than to dick around next to the hole.

One day at a time is a familiar mantra. Actually, when I stopped my Suboxone treatment, I was struggling to do 1 hour at a time. Something odd happens to you when you do not sleep for a few days straight. Time creeps to a crawl, and the loneliness is suffocating in it's intensity. Having to be awake while everybody else gets to sleep. That is a LOT of free time. As bad as the experience was, I am glad I suffered it. I needed to feel all the consequences of my decisions. As does your son.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Without drugs she gave up her rock star status and had no friends at all unyil she met her boyfriend. To this day she is shy and her boyfriend is her best friend and she does not have many girlfriends. But she is comfortable with herself now.
Actually, this sounds like me. Except without the drugs. I lived a whole life externally focused. I did all kinds of therapy but my motivation was to get a life like other people had, not necessarily know myself.

After reincarnating myself over and over as I went through life trying to achieve, moving through this group of friends and that (and always believing myself to be the belle of the ball), it was only when I met M (at 60) when I really became comfortable in myself. With him. Even now, I seldom want to be around anybody except M, my son, and occasionally his sister. I am friendly and warm with people I do not know, but I am not very comfortable at all with people with whom I work, for example. I have faked it my whole life. Now I know that. I did not know before.

It feels so very uncomfortable to be with people at work--the colleagues. I am actually afraid and tense. I feel afraid of them, actually. And afraid what I will reveal. And that makes me more nervous and I begin revealing everything. I do not know what my problem is! My mother thought I had overcome my vulnerability. I guess I did not.

I read this and I sound so self-absorbed. I am. I think it might be helpful for some of you, whose kids struggle with their inner demons, to know how many of us have, and still do. People tend not to talk about it. Maybe we should.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Something odd happens to you when you do not sleep for a few days straight. Time creeps rawl, to a cand the loneliness is suffocating in it's intensity.
Darkwing. Why not think some day of writing a memoir with some of your posts. I think you have enough material with which to make a good start. I find your writing tremendous, your honesty exhilarating and your insight to be remarkable.

I find myself thinking of Under the Volcano by Malcolm Lowry.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Copa, I dont believe my daughter is that introspective. She did pay for school and got two careers, but she seems content now, at 32, being a mom, just like I was (preferred being stay at home mom) and her SO is her best friend. She is so much like I was at her age, although because of my mom constantly demeaning me, I too needed to work things out in therapy.

Princess didnt have those issues and, unlike Goneboy, does not seem to have an identity problem. Of course she never lived in an orphanage, but was in a loving foster home from three days old until she came home to us at five months.

She is tougher than I was. She really was loved all her life, unlike me...

Princess isn't so much afraid of people as she is not fond of most. Only on drugs was she social.

Right now taking good care of my granddaughter is what she wants to do. And she is all in on the mother thing. I'm very proud. When she did work, she wasnt timid around her co workers. This young woman is very strong. Shes just not a big social butterfly. Did I mention Im very proud? ;)
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I like talking casually to strangers but do need some alone time and strongly prefer my family to friends. That has never changed for me.

I so get Princess.
 
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