Need advice on best and least combative way to get 19 year old to move out

[vligrl]

For those that don't know me, my son lives with us, will be 19 in one week, smokes pot, molly and acid ocassionally and would like for our peace of mind, for him to move out, soon. No specific thing, just tired of living with a pot head, unmotivated lazy ass kid that seems to be going nowhere and now that his college buddies are all coming home for the summer, a much larger pool to smoke, etc. with. I don't want to damage our relationship to the point that he cuts all ties when we tell him it's time to start living your life as a adult on your own. Please suggest positive ways to get this done. I know it won't go well regardless because he will just try to manipulate us with..." I didn't do anything" or "I've done everything you've asked, come home on time, don't smoke in the house, have a job (by a thread)....you get the drill. Still haven't told him he won't be using our cars anymore as he keeps getting picked up. Thanks in advance!

 

[Calamity Jane]

Hi Vligrl,
I don't recall, so forgive me in advance. Has he been dxd with any depression or anything? Has he been offered and rejected drug counseling?

In any case, he is an adult, and your home is yours. In a positive way, I guess I'd first get on the same page with husband. Then sit down with difficult child, tell him you and hubby have given this a lot of thought, and you both agree that it's time he lives like an independent, self sufficient adult. Tell him you have every confidence that he is capable of doing this, and that you both believe it would be the very best thing for him and his self esteem to be a fully functioning grown man. Tell him you love him, you want only the best for him, and you've done everything you could to give him a healthy foundation to build his adult life on, and he must do the rest from here. He's going to interpret this as you're throwing him out, so be prepared for a very scared, angry and hurt response. His feelings will be hurt, and he will bargain, plead, and manipulate you. You may also want to offer him up to 6 months to save up for an apartment and living expenses, so you can make it clear that you don't expect him to pack up overnight (you wish!), but that you're offering a realistic and workable option. Encourage him that you both think that this is the push he needs to prove that he's ready and able to pull himself up and be a responsible adult. I might offer the first and last month's rent and the security deposit to get him started off, and any furniture you could spare to feather the nest. Since he needs to work, he will oppose this and say he needs a car, and if you don't give him one, how can he hold a job and pay rent? I don't know what you would offer as a response, because I don't know how much, if anything he has saved up so far, and if you and husband would be willing to fund a car for him. I would strongly suggest you make him pay for insurance, in case he drives impaired.
Again, Vligrl, I don't know if there's a history of dual diagnosis that is impeding his transition to adulthood. In any case, he is 19 and he has to learn to be his own advocate. You and husband can't work harder than he is willing to in order to function normally. If you offer him the 6 months to save up money, you can possibly offer treatment/counseling for that period as well, and he has to agree to faithfully attend, so that when the 6 months are up, he will be on the road to financial and mental well being. Easier said than done, right?
Take your time, and just hold your ground.

 

[vligrl]

First, he has zero money. Second, just sold the car we gave him a month ago due to pot use. Just spoke to a drug counselor that suggested an intervention which we cannot afford followed by a few months as an inpatient at a rehab facility...again, our insurance only covers getting detoxed at the most for six days, IF they determine he is addicted. Then it would be outpatient group therapy which I was told has a very low success rate. He said kicking him out is not the answer, treatment is. If he won't do the treatment, then out he goes but with no guarantee he won't be worse off. He was telling me he will most likely become a heroin addict if he doesn't get help!!!! He hates needles, nothing up the nose, but will take acid. He said stage my own intervention with the phone on speed dial 911 just in case. Great. He doubts I have seen my son sober except when he first wakes up so I am use to how he is high. Really? This guy came from an upper middleclass Jewish family in the Chicago burbs and ended up being a crack addict. ****!!!!

By the way, how do you punish a 19 year old for not returning your calls or texts with his own cell? What consequences are there at this age? He use to always answer his phone or call me right back, but not lately.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Vligrl,
When my difficult child was using meth and smoking pot and God knows what else, he never responded to texts or calls if he was out getting high. He was basically out all day, tentatively hung on to a p/t job, (which he then quit), then stayed out till 11:30PM and crashed into his room, shut the door, and didn't come out. Conversations were started by us, but he wasn't even rational or verbal at that time. We never ate meals together at one point - he was using our home as the YMCA or some kind of flophouse. He didn't look us in the eye, didn't attend family gatherings, and avoided us whenever possible. He funded his substance abuse with his p/t job salary, and ate at Taco Bell, etc. We didn't give him a dime. Avoidance of family was excessive during his heaviest sub. abuse. In your difficult child's case, he may be avoiding your texts/calls for the same reason. I can't speak for your difficult child, but in our son's mind, we were a huge bringdown, so why would he want to have any contact with us? I think we reminded him of his shame, which led to further use, which led to more shame, etc.
If your difficult child won't go for treatment, then you have to decide whether you and husband can accept living like this. It's hard, but he will go on using and it will escalate if the bottom isn't raised. If you read the posts on SA forum from Toughlovin, you'll see that her son was living on the streets for a while. It's awful, but occasionally, it does come down to that.

 

[InsaneCdn]

By the way, how do you punish a 19 year old for not returning your calls or texts with his own cell? What consequences are there at this age? He use to always answer his phone or call me right back, but not lately

You don't.
At 19, some things are beyond punishment. Most things are.
Logical consequences... sure. Like the whole "car" issue. Do X and Y, and you don't have a car anymore.

But you don't punish non-communication, or all you get is even more non-communication.
It's not an offence to remain silent. Just a huge frustration for everybody else.

Set your rules, for life in your house.
Agree on the logical consequences if the rules aren't followed.
If one of the rules has to do with communicating whereabouts and/or schedule... negotiate the consequences of non-communication. BUT it has to be logical. In HIS mind, not just yours.

Somehow, you want to nudge him in the right direction. Attacking communication is going to damage the relationship (such as it is), not repair it. You have to fix the relationship to fix the communication (the two go hand-in-hand... so you fix both at the same time)

 

[BusynMember]

Who pays for his cell phone?

If it were me, I would simply tell him that if he did not want to respond to my texts, than he has to pay for his cell phone himself. You can't punish him for it...he is too old...but you don't have to pay for his cell phone if he doesn't even have the courtesy to answer your calls. My main reason for paying for my kids to have a phone is because I feel safe that I can get them at any time. If they stopped responding to me, my reason for paying for unlimited texting would be gone. Then it would be up to them to fund their phones. Natural consequence in my opinion.

 

[InsaneCdn]

MWM... I agree. That would be a logical consequence.

 

[vligrl]

He pays for cell and you are right that it is frustrating not hearing back from him. Not punishing him for it, but husband used the non communication to end the use of his car and not to ask him to use it. Made me very upset that he used this excuse, when we were going to sit down with him and explain that while he is using drugs, there will be no car, but instead, he made my son feel that it was because he didn't get back to us soon enough. Two kids....
After being able to talk to my son alone on the phone, we discussed drug use, expectations, plans, no car use with drug use and plan on saving up when you start working full time to be able to move out by the end of summer. He said he won't smoke then and I can test him after fourteen days when it should be out of his system. I told him testing mean peeing with the door open with one of us outside the door. No notice when...just random. He said fine, no big deal. Still refused treatment. Will test for multiple drugs, randomly. Who knows?

 

[DammitJanet]

Okay, I can probably help you here. I think you should tell him that you know that he does smoke pot and engages in acid use and that you cannot condone that in or around your house. You dont want to be around him when he is high and since he has decided to choose this life, it is time for him to have his own abode. Then he can make all his own rules and you wont say a peep. His home, his rules. That should give him pause for consideration. He probably thinks you will still attempt to run his life even when he is gone. Many parents do. Dont. If he comes to you begging for help getting off the drugs then you can help but until then, not a peep.

You might want to help him find a really low rent place to stay. The first place Cory and Mandy went was a mobile home that should have been condemned. The floors had holes in them and the furnace didnt work. He had to patch holes in the walls and we got two window unit AC's off freecycle and he got an old rug out of a dumpster behind an apartment that was being remodeled. It cost $200 a month. Now he is in a mobile home that is probably 15 years old or so and has 3 bedrooms. He pays $500 for the home which includes all utilities. That is pretty good and is all he can afford really. It is pushing it for his income but he is out in the country where he wants to be. He can have a dog in the yard and its just better for him to be out there.

You may have to help him get into the very first place. Maybe help with deposits for electric and such but I wouldnt be the cosigner on the home or apartment. I would never do that. I have never done that. I have been fully willing to tell them where he gets his income and such but never would I put myself at risk. I did pay deposit for his second place to get him out of our house. He simply had to go.

We did basically toss him out the first time - I think - but it was a firm talking to that we had discussed with him and just said its time to leave the nest. After he had to come back home about 2 years later due to the condemned place just rotting out under them...well, we let them but they turned back into perpetual teens and didnt save up money like they were supposed to do so we had to again set the dates for them to get out and they found a place and we moved them on out. It is amazing how well they can do when on their own.

I will tell you what I have learned. A young man does so much better on his own. He begins to learn that he is not a child anymore but a man and as he takes care of himself for the first time, it instills a huge sense of self esteem in him. He starts feeling a sense of pride in him that he never has had before. Even if he has to buy his couch from Goodwill, that couch will mean more to him than anything you have at your home. It is something he bought with his own money. His money will mean so much to him. He will learn the power of a dollar and suddenly he will learn to stretch it. High dollar clothes wont appear in his closet anymore. My son used to covet fancy clothes and expensive shoes. Now he shops at second hand stores. He is so appreciative of anything I give him. He has the TV I bought in 1997. His outlook has changed 180. Best thing ever.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Vligrl,
My difficult child tried the old, "you can test me in 14 days" business on us, and here's what we did. When he said that, we didn't say yes or no. That night,husband bought a multi-drug urine test at CVS. He woke difficult child up early the next AM and told him to get up, do this urine test, and husband stayed in the bathroom with him. When difficult child protested and said, "I told you to test me in 2 weeks," husband said I know what you told ME, and I'm telling YOU I want a baseline reading of what you've been doing recently. Going forward, I will test you randomly, whenever I see fit, and if you don't agree, you may pack your things now.

The reason for the baseline test is you send it back to the lab, and in app. 10 days, you call the number they give you on the box and you can get the nanograms of what, if anything, he tests positive for. So if he smoked pot, you will see a line on the cup that shows positive for THC, but you won't immediately know how much is in his system. If you don't do a baseline test, and 14 days from now husband tests him, difficult child can say, "well, that's still showing up from my use 3 weeks ago. I guess you guys better wait another 2 weeks, so my system will be really clean." You see where I'm going here? However, if you do a baseline now, you could compare the nanogram reading from this current test with the future test, and see if the numbers went up or down. That's how you can tell if he's really stopped using or slowing down, etc.

 

[DammitJanet]

CJ....very true. And sometimes drugs wont even show up on the urine tests at all when they have taken them. I take lorcet every month prescribed along with morphine. You would think I would test positive for opiates like a neon sign. I didnt know that lorcet would test positive different than morphine but it does. Oddly enough, one time when they tested me they said that my test came back negative for any lorcet but I knew I had taken some within the last 48 to 72 hours of the test. I may not have taken it the day I was there because I think my appointment was for noon but I knew I took it the day before so how it didnt show up in that test was beyond me. The doctor told me to make sure I took at least 3 a day for the 3 days or so before coming to the appointment. Obviously I am trying to show positive for the drug. I still dont know how I tested negative but it does show that the test can be wrong.