Need everyone's help ASAP

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by SeaGenieTx, Sep 21, 2015.

  1. SeaGenieTx

    SeaGenieTx Active Member

    My son came back into town today and is staying at a hotel nearby. He is not in his right mind. I got a letter today from the DPS and his license is suspended until Sept 2016 due to his recent run in with the law (driving with a suspended license, drug paraphernalia, no insurance). I spoke to him a few minutes ago to tell him the letter said he needed to forfeit his license, pay $100.

    He started screaming at me that it was all my fault since I kicked him out and that's why he got in trouble, he has no place to live (since I kicked him out) and it's ALL MY FAULT and he doesn't care because he is buying a car tomorrow, moving out of this f'ing city and away from me as I have serious anger issues, etc.

    Master manipulator turning it all on me, it's all my fault. When I talked to him he was not right - something is seriously wrong, he almost sounded suicidal.

    I told him that was the problem and the reason why I'm so angry - he is clueless and ruining his life. To go purchase a car (he says he can buy a car regardless, even if he doesn't have insurance or a valid license) and he can get a job (yea, with 3, now 4 drug convictions on his record) and I'm a nutcase, I'm delusional, etc.

    Something is seriously wrong with my son. At age 23 he keeps breaking the law and I'm the bad guy, it's all my fault, I kicked him out and I'm a bad mother. I kicked him out because he spent the last 4 year after he graduated high school, getting high, getting arrested, doing probation, paying court/attorney's fees, getting arrested, getting high....disrespecting me and my home.... I had enough, I blew a fuse, kicked him out and it's all my fault.

    He's ruined his life - his drug charges and suspended license, now he has threated he's buying a car (which he has no business driving because he gets pulled over every time he gets behind the wheel)....

    It's like he is on a mission to show me because I kicked him out. I'm being punished, not him. Help - I'm scared to death because he was at his hotel screaming in the hallway at me, he's desperate and acting crazy. I have no one to call for help and he knows that. He was yelling at me then hung up.

    Not once since I kicked him out has he apologized or asked to make amends - he's crazy and angry and in his mind - it's all my fault, I've done this to him. He can't seem to remember his 3 trips to jail and all the times I bailed him out, rescued him at 2am when he and his buddy got in a head on accident and I showed up to rush him to the hospital with his head busted open. I've been a great mother but had enough and kicked him out. Now he's going to destroy himself and let me know it's all my fault.

    I really need help on how to deal with this. I'm scared he is going to do something drastic - he was talking and acting crazy. And not remorseful for anything. He is determined to buy a car tomorrow (he has $20K inheritance in the bank to spend). What do I do? I'm scared, upset, he hates me cause it's all my fault.

    Is this what they do when they get desperate? The way he talked to me on the phone was horrible. Then he hung up on me. What do I do? What if he kills himself? Or is he bluffing to punish me?
     
  2. toughlovin

    toughlovin Well-Known Member

    Hi SeaGenie, I feel for you. It is way too easy for me to imagine the scenario only with my son doing the manipulation and nastiness. So first of all I think you know this is not your fault... take this in and remind yourself of this, this is not your fault!!!

    It sounds like he is defnitely using drugs.... because all the crazy talk and nastiness gets way worse with drug use. If you are really scared for his safety call 911, tell them where he is and that you are worried about his safety. They can do a well being check on him...... and yes if he is doing illegal things they could arrest him but really if you are worried for his safety that is your best option.

    I have been where you are and I am here to tell you he has not yet ruined his life. Yes he is in the process of doing so.... but it is not a done deal. My son has a felony on his record, has been homeless, has spent time in jail and been in numerous rehabs.... and he like your son is only 23!!! And yet at this point he has been clean for 60 days and is again in rehab because he chose to be and seems to be really serious about it this time. His life is not over and he is looking for the first time at his future.

    But the process of my son getting to this place has been very hard for me just like it is very hard for you. So I sympathize and the only way to get through it is to build your own life, to find things that interest you and to find ways not to focus all of your energy on him. It is hard to do that I know , but it is also the only way i know to get through it.
     
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  3. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    I know you are feeling desperate, I know you are scared for your son. I have been where you are right now, all the threats and blaming me for everything.
    There is nothing you can do to stop him from buying a car or anything else that he wants to do.

    He is angry because you started to hold him accountable by kicking him out. That was the best thing you could have done not only for him but yourself.

    My son has threatened suicide quite a few times and it was all talk. They do this to hit us hard. They are hurting and they are going to make us hurt too. If he's anything like my son he's just blowing a lot of hot air. Nothing ever comes of it.

    All you can do right now is try to calm down. Concentrate on your breathing, slow deep easy breaths. You can do this, you will get through this.
    I am sending all my positive energy to you. All of us here care about you. I and many others have been right where you are and we made it through, you will to.

    Hang in there SeaGenie!!

    ((HUGS)) to you................
     
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  4. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    Seagenie...I am so sorry. I wish I had something else to say other than hang in there. You know that none of what has happened is your fault. You put him out. As you've pointed out, he has $20,000! There are people raising families in this country on less than that a YEAR and they pay for a place to live. He could have rented an apartment and paid for several months in advance! You didn't make him do drugs. You didn't make him drive on a suspended license.

    None of this is on you.

    I wish I could tell you how to handle this. I've never been where you are, not exactly, so I don't truly know what I would do. But I do know this...you did nothing wrong.

    I agree with toughlovin, if you are really afraid, call the police. Yes, he may get arrested. Yes, he may get angry, but he already is.

    Remember we are here for you.
     
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  5. SeaGenieTx

    SeaGenieTx Active Member

    Tanya M and everyone thank you. I don't know what I'd do without being able to come here and talk to you guys. I just need to I did nothing wrong. Kicking him out (for the 3rd time) and not letting him back in - he has realized his party buddies are not always going to be there to save him (obviously if he had to resort to getting a hotel room - and that's my fault too because he's having to waste money on a hotel room...).

    I have to keep it together. Luckily tomorrow I will have the office to myself - my boss will be out. I'm a wreck but since he hung on me - his fate is his choice. He has never felt insecurity and uncertainty, never been in survival mode, never lost family suddenly and been forced to keep going to work in the depths of grief.

    He's 23 - screw it, he's a grown man. If he can't handle his life and stay afloat on his own with $20K in his pocket then he deserves to suffer and struggle and worry. Maybe that will make him a man and force him to grow up. All I can hope is one day he stops hating me and realizes everything I have done has been an attempt to help him launch in life.

    I just pray to God he doesn't do something awful. Thank you all - you helped me get thru my panic attack.
     
  6. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    SeaGenie, I agree with everybody else. Nothing is your fault.

    My son too has been at the point many times when he threatens suicide if I do not do this or that. While nobody knows what they will do, in 6 years of threats, he is still here.

    As I see it the ball is one hundred percent in your son's court. There is nothing you can do. There is nothing, as I see it, that you can do.

    This is exactly what they do when they want to avoid taking responsibility for themselves. The only way I have seen things change is to let them take responsibility for the consequences of their choices and acts, however hard it is for us.

    My son has done the hanging up, too. And if I say I need to get off the phone he will say, "if you hang up on me I will never talk to you again." There is the need for 100 percent control. Over us. When they feel none in their own lives.

    When I am my best self I say, I know you will do it. I know you will make the best choice. I know you can handle it. I love you.

    And to myself I say: This is one day, one hour, of a life. Everything can change. There is hope. Try to find that place in yourself. Center yourself. He will handle himself. He is an adult. He deserves the respect to handle his own life. Mistakes are feedback to do it better.

    Do not let him abuse you. Do whatever you need to do to get that to stop.

    And then try to do something for you.
     
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  7. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    I know this game, the frenzy, the train wreck, the tornado.

    The objective is to keep us in a downward spiraling tailspin, enmeshed within the craziness.

    You are the pilot of your own plane. Pull up SeaGenie! Pull up and fly above the clouds, take charge of your life, change your flight pattern, your thought pattern.

    I had to do the same, the light came on in a discussion with my difficult child, when she looked at me with hate-filled eyes and sneeringly said "I suppose you want a normal life....."

    Heck yah, I want a normal life. I want peace. It is up to me to bring that about. I cannot control the choices my difficult adult children make.

    I will no longer be a moth to the drama flame.

    I do my difficult children no service by allowing myself to perish. I have a duty to take good care of myself. Through this, I am loving them too, by showing them how people should be treated, by showing them I will not partake in the nonsense of it all.

    Nobody deserves to go through this torment. If it were anyone else but your son, you would not stand for it.

    Pull up SeaGenie!
     
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  8. SeaGenieTx

    SeaGenieTx Active Member

    Just to hear from you all that I did nothing wrong, etc. That's all I needed... it is pure torment New Leaf I agree (and thank you for your post).

    Tonight I sat down and tried to remember those that I lost (when & how old they were). Then I listed the dates of my son's arrests. Why I did this I don't know but as I wrote this out I realized, man I have been thru some **** in life and for my son to do this to me and tell me I'm psychotic and delusional, it's all my fault... wow, what a great kid I raised.

    Husband died in 1992 (construction accident) - age 32
    Mom died in 1996 (lung cancer) - age 63
    Dad died in 2004 (colon cancer) - age 71
    Oldest brother died in 2005 (lung cancer) - age 54
    Remaining brother died in 2013 (alcoholism) - age 59

    Son's arrests:
    June 2012 - evading police, pot possession under 2 oz., 1 night in jail.
    October 2013 (Halloween night - driving carload of friends to a party, speeding, arrested for possession of pot under 2 oz.), 1 night in jail.
    May 1, 2014 - crashed car at 4-way stop, police showed up smelled pot, searched car, arrested he & his girlfriend, girlfriend released, son spent 1 night in jail for possession of drug paraphernalia/driving with suspended license.
    August 3, 2015 - pulled over while driving girlfriend's mom's car, possession of drug paraphernalia, driving with suspended license & no insurance.

    I always said if I die I just want to be remembered for being a good mother. Now I just want to be remembered as "Good lord she survived a boat load of **** thrown her way but who knew? She hid it well."

    I thought God would never give me more than I could handle. Do I have a curse on me? Did I do something wrong in a previous life? I do not get it.
     
  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    You got great advice. I agree with it all. Just want to add thst it is only adding to your pain and setting yourself up for his emotional abuse by trying to ecplain anything to him. "Less is more" is my motto. Do not talk to him in any heartfelt way. He is angry, lying about the truth, and possibly on drugs. Talking sense to them just ramps them up for two responses: " its your fault" or " ill kill myself if you dont help me" ( this is emotional blackmail.)

    Your son would be getting into the same degree of trouble if you let him back home and fed him. My daughter, when she was on drugs, liv ed with us for years ( she was a minor teen for most of it) and home didnt stop her from sneaking out at night and running the streets with dangerous addicts, using meth and other stuff, being dragged to an empty park and nearly assaulted, and putting her life in danger by her associations. She was on parole twice.

    Being home put the entire family in danger. The cops would come calling. My young ones would be terrified of her drug rages and cops calling.wefinally had to tell her to leave. She found some where to stay (long story) but she quit!! But it was not until she was ready. We are close today. Twelve years have gone by. I thought shed end up dead or in prison.

    For all suicide threats, whether you think they are serious or not, hang up and call 911. Give them the best location you can. Do it fast, before son takes off. The suicide threats will probavly stop after you keep calling the cops. He most likely wont try suicide. Its said as the ultimate guilt trip. But a 911 call is a safety measure just in case. A loving gesture. You can do nothing else.

    Dont send money. He will buy drugs with it. there are places he can eat if homeless and sleep too but he has to follow shelter rules. If so, they will help him.

    It is his fault for how he behaves and only he can change himself. There are agencies that help felons get jobs. His life doesnt have to be ruined. Its up to him.

    Hugs for all the hurt and pain.
     
  10. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    SeaGenie, I feel the same way about my own life. Many people suffer losses. Not just us. And even in suffering our strength sets us apart.

    I have felt like you do. After all I have been through, and this, too?

    I was wrong. My son deserves his own life. He does not exist to fulfill my needs, or to protect me from pain. That is my responsibility, not his. My son is perfectly entitled to make mistakes. The one that is hard for me, is that my son is ill with a life-threatening ailment, for which he does not take medication. But I have to let go of that. I know of at least one other mother in the same boat as I am. Her son has the same disease.

    This is time for you. To do wonderful things for yourself. To set firm boundaries so that your son cannot disrespect you.

    I have found that my anger at my son is much diminished now that I understand I am not responsible for him. He is responsible for himself. Now that I know that I do not have to keep trying, and can set firm limits, my life has changed.

    I can focus on myself and take responsibility for improving my own life.
     
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  11. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Seagenie I'm reading along too. None of this is your fault. You did the best you could with your son. Most of the time, if not all of the time, when we stop enabling, stop helping them, they act out in a similar way as your son is now. Much of it is to make you pay for stopping the gravy train. I've been through it too, as many of us have. It's devastating to hear your child speak to you in that way and to blame you. With our propensity for feeling guilty and taking responsibility for our children, their words hit their mark.........but the words are not true. Don't believe any of it, you know what the truth is.

    You've sustained an enormous amount of grief and loss, and unfortunately, this is now compounded that grief and loss. I hope you have a therapist or a group, a 12 step group, somewhere or someone you trust and can go to for support. You've a lot on your plate.

    Take deep breaths, listen to some guided visualizations on Youtube for peacefulness if that feels right, take long walks, be very, very kind and loving to yourself, you deserve it. Fill yourself back up now, focus on you and your needs, you've been caring for your son for a very long time and now it's time to nourish yourself and your life. Sending you hugs, I know how hard this is. You're not alone. We're with you.
     
  12. Childofmine

    Childofmine trying to do this thing one day at a time Staff Member

    SeaGenie, I am here with you too.

    I'm so sorry he talked to you like that. My Difficult Child did the same, cursed at me, hung up on me, screamed F*** you, etc. Multiple times, most often when I wouldn't do what he wanted. It hurts. It hurts every time.

    I'm so glad you sat down and wrote out some things. You wrote out your own history. That is important. Keep writing. Write the truth as you know it. Read and reread it to yourself and keep it handy.

    We can get so upset and confused and start doubting ourselves when we get these phone calls.

    But you know. YOU KNOW. You know the truth.


    He sounds like a typical drug addict. They want what they want when they want it, and when we (usually their biggest soft touch) say No and keep saying no, it infuriates them because Now what are they going to do?

    Well...maybe...change. Change?

    That's still their decision, and even after I stopped...my Difficult Child kept on going...for a long time...until finally he stopped about 16 months ago..and started doing the hard work of changing his life.

    But first, it took me getting out of the way.

    This is excellent advice. In many ways. First, it gives you something to DO. It gives you help with him. I called the police on my son multiple times when he would threaten suicide. The last time he threatened it, I got up in his face and said this: Every single time you say you are going to kill yourself, I will call the police. Every single time.

    Guess what? That was the last time he did it.

    Now, I know when people say this, we have to take it seriously, every single time. But in my heart of hearts, I never thought my son was suicidal, even when I was terrified at the words. In fact, my ex husband (his dad) and I both agreed on the phone one time that neither one of us thought he would ever do that, but that we would take it seriously every time and call the police every time. And that's what we did.

    This stuff is very hard. You in the the throes of a huge transition. You have said no more...and Seagenie...he doesn't like it.

    Think about it. For years and years and years we caught them when they feel. Now...they have to learn to catch themselves and they truly can't believe it. They think we will catch them if they just push us hard enough and long enough. why? Because we taught them that. Push me 1000 times and finally I will respond. I did that over and over and over with my son because I just couldn't stand it.

    Finally, I got strong enough to stand it, and it still took him a long time to unlearn what I had taught him so well.

    It's so hard during this period.

    Hang in there. We're here for you through it all. You are not alone and we understand.
     
  13. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Just wanted to add my support and agreement with all of the above. So many of us have been in your shoes. Boy do I remember the days when Oldest would scream "I'm done with this family! You'll never hear from me me again!" or, "I can't take this any more! GoodBYE forever!" insinuating she was suicidal, and hang up on me. Only to call back the next day (or sometimes just hours later) to ask me a question, as if nothing had happened. And without fail, that behavior was worse when I'd put up a boundary and stick to it, without backing down - just as you have. They're like toddlers, throwing a tantrum when they don't get their way. For me, that kind of behavior actually made me MORE likely to stand firm, because it ticked me off so much. Yes it hurt, but it ticked me off even more than the hurt.

    You are absolutely doing the right thing here. I agree with the idea of attending a 12 step group like Al-Anon, or maybe looking for a NAMI support group. Circling your wagons of support is crucial at times like this.

    I love the image of piloting your own plane, and pulling up above the clouds, rising above it all -- it's perfect.
     
  14. toughlovin

    toughlovin Well-Known Member

    On the suicidal thing.... if he is threatening suicide then tell him you will help him get help. Definitely call the police if he refuses help and let them go check on him. My son has gotten suicidal a couple of times. One time when I was cleaning out hiss room I found a note that he had written years before where he had been suicidal. I did not know about it at the time but it was very upsetting to find. When I saw my son after finding it I asked him what he would do if he felt like that again he said he would go to the hospital.... and i said good, and if you ever feel like that call me and I will take you. A few months later after a break up he called me outside an emergency room and said he knew he needed to go. I went and picked him up and instead of going there took him to the psychiatric hospital near by. There was another instance after a break up (same darned girl) where he called me and I took him. So in a calm moment I think it is worth a conversation saying if you really feel suicidal I will always be willing to take you to the hospital... which if he is really suicidal is where he needs to be.

    So next time he threatens suicide tell him if you are really suicidal then you need to go to the hospital and I am willing to take you. If he refuses call the police and tell them. Definitely do not let the threat work to get you to do whatever it is he wants you to do.

    I will also say that when my son was suicidal he was not saying it to get me to do something.... he has done plenty of manipulation but not those times.
     
  15. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    Yes, he is a grown man, his life, his choices.
    He may hate that you have stopped giving into him but I really do not believe he hates you. My son used to scream at me that he hated me and those words cut deep but over time I learned it was just his immaturity lashing out.

    I have no doubt that you will be remembered as a good mother. You have loved your son and have always been there for him, you have been a good mother.

    You are not cursed and you have done nothing to deserve the heartache you have endured.
    I too have experienced much in my life, childhood abuse, illness, loss and a Difficult Child. I have learned to embrace all that life throws my way and learn from it. None of us are immune to life's tragedy's.

    The lyrics to this song by Darryl Worley ring true for me.

    "Sounds Like Life To Me"
    Got a call last night from an old friend’s wife
    Said I hate to bother you
    Johnny Ray fell off the wagon
    He’s been gone all afternoon
    I know my buddy so I drove to Skully’s
    And found him at the bar
    I say hey man, what’s going on
    He said I don’t know where to start

    Sarah’s old car’s about to fall apart
    And the washer quit last week
    We had to put momma in the nursing home
    And the baby’s cutting teeth
    I didn’t get much work this week
    And I got bills to pay
    I said I know this ain’t what you wanna hear
    But it’s what I’m gonna say

    [Chorus]
    Sounds like life to me it ain’t no fantasy
    It’s just a common case of everyday reality
    Man I know it’s tough but you gotta suck it up
    To hear you talk you’re caught up in some tragedy
    It sounds like life to me

    Well his face turned red and he shook his head
    He said you don’t understand
    Three kids and a wife depend on me
    And I’m just one man
    To top it off I just found out
    That Sarah’s 2 months late
    I said hey bartender set us up a round
    We need to celebrate

    [Chorus]
    Sounds like life to me plain old destiny
    Yeah the only thing for certain is uncertainty
    You gotta hold on tight just enjoy the ride
    Get used to all this unpredictability
    Sounds like life

    Man I know its tough but you gotta suck it up
    To hear you talk you’re caught up in some tragedy
    Sounds like life to me
    Sounds like life
     
  16. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    SeaGenie,

    I remember this stage all too well. Analysis stage. We are faced with a seemingly insurmountable issue when it comes to dealing with difficult adult children, their rantings and rages, insults and accusations.

    We become entrenched in the misery of it. We begin to sift through the pages of our book, rereading, reliving, asking the questions of ourselves. I think the constant blaming triggers it, as if somewhere deep inside, we wonder if through all of life's inevitable tragic events suffered while raising our children, did we take our minds off of them too long and cause what they have become? Was there something we could have done differently? Is it really our fault, or circumstances fault?

    Fault- responsibility for a wrongful act, a mistake.

    In our mothering do we make mistakes? Certainly we do. We are not perfect, and if we had a chance would we do things differently? Maybe.

    Do the mistakes we made then, add up to a reason for the choices our difficult children make now? NO!

    There has to come a time when these adults examine and analyze their own life's path, their own decisions. That does not happen as long as we are stepping in to rescue them, enable them. As long as we remain in the picture, they will not take their magnifying glass off of us and look in the MIRROR.

    I, too have a long list of "Lemony Snicket's continuing series of unfortunate events", not to take away, or water down your losses. Looking back, I have been smacked upside the head many, many times by stuff thrown my way. I have had to get up each and every time. Is it fair? No! As my Dad always said "Who said life was fair?" It's not. In between the moments of beauty life is peppered with real, raw, seemingly devastating challenges. This is one of the greatest ones, our babies, our children, growing up and living their lives wrong.

    They are not babies anymore. They sure do act like it though. Toddlers, throwing tantrums in adult bodies. They are incredibly manipulating and selfish. At this point in time, the mindset your son is in, you could never do enough, be enough for him. In the adult toddler tantrum you are to blame, it is your fault.

    There is no rationality to it.

    We have cousins in their 70's who are still dealing with drug addicted adult children living in their home, and now drug dabbling grandchildren! OUCH!

    While you are examining your past and sifting through your book, there are still unwritten pages. What will you fill those with?

    This is a hard, hard time. I wish I had a place like this to land in the earlier stages of my Difficult Child's warpath. I think it would have given me the stuff I needed to stand up, draw the line and say

    "ENOUGH! When you are ready to make better choices, take responsibility for your own life and stop blaming me, call me!"

    Hang tough SeaGenie. As a fellow artist, I hope that you are able to delve into your creativity. I have found that to be a necessity.Try to redirect your strong mother-nurture spirit to become a self-nurturer. YOU deserve it!

    ((HUGS))
     
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  17. SeaGenieTx

    SeaGenieTx Active Member

    Wow New Leaf you are dead on - I did hit that analysis stage... you are right. But I do see clearly I am not to blame. When my alcoholic brother kept clawing at me for help, I turned him away. He lost everything, became homeless then was found dead on the street from drinking himself to death. My son exhibits his same mentality - its like my brother has reincarnated himself in my son.
    My brother lost his job, cashed in his 401K, ran thru that and unemployment money, home was seized, he let all his neighbors come buy up anything in his house and then left on foot. He got arrested for writing hot checks, breaking in to vacant houses to sleep, then he was found dead.

    I guess the mentality of an addict is they just want to get drunk or high and nothing else matters. No one can help them no matter how hard they try. Some people just want to go deep into misery and self destruction I guess. Ive had practice with my brother and know I cant help my son, he must help himself.

    Its so hard New Leaf to focus on anything right now - I feel like Im grieving a death... and trying not to worry is hard.

    Ive had so many phone calls in the past with "Im sorry to inform you but so-in-so has passed away" or "this is Sheriff so-in-so and we have your son in custody" or "This is the coroners office and your brother was found expired in the street"... or "Mom! They are taking me to jail... Ive been in a accident my head is bleeding"...

    Ive received all those calls... I cant bear to get one that my son was found dead.

    I hope my son changes but we need distance and no communication for a while. He hates me right now and I need some relief from his clown car ride - my head is spinning.

    Thank you - anytime you guys respond I read it immediately via the phone app. This is helping me cope and do the right thing. Thank u all for such sage advice and wonderful support (((hugs)))). Ive lost those last 5 nagging pounds finally due to this ordeal (there is a positive!). Keep the kind words and advice coming - Im reading & re-reading this as needed when tears start welling up....
     
  18. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Thank you for sharing your story, it is painful, but others are strengthened by your resolve, we understand your grief, and are working through our own issues. Some are further along then I am. If I have posted anything that offends anyone, I apologize. This is a very tough road to be on, emotions are raw.

    Feel what you have to feel. It is your life. Sorting through the mess is hard. I keep telling myself "I will visit misery, but I shall not live there."

    If you find yourself going down the grief trail, fast tracking to depression highway, please get help. I will keep the same in mind.

    Hugs and wishes for brighter moments.
     
  19. SeaGenieTx

    SeaGenieTx Active Member

    Thank you New Leaf.
     
  20. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    So sorry half of my reply ended up mixed in the quoted purple section. Working off my phone! I'll try to fix it when I get home. Technologically challenged......
     
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