Need help!!!!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by sweetgfg, Jun 10, 2010.

  1. sweetgfg

    sweetgfg Guest

    Can the school have your difficult child sit at the office all day not allow them to go to class and not notify the parents that they are doing this??? My difficult child got into trouble yesterday she was going to be suspended I spoke to Vice Principal and she agreed to let her go to school today because the principal was not at campus the day difficult child got into trouble and VP is new to school (just 3 weeks) and I reminded her there was an IEP in place... Today I took difficult child to school...

    I got a call from Principal at 2:20 pm (school is out at 3:15) she told me she would have suspended difficult child if she had been at school and that because she felt 24hrs after the problem wouldn't help difficult child to grasp the consequence.... I didn't say much because I am exhausted and next week is the last week...

    When I picked up difficult child at 3:15pm on the way home I found out that her teacher had sent her to the office as soon as she arrived and difficult child had been there all day just was excused to go to lunch!!! No instruction no work to do just read froma small basket of books next to the bench where she sat...

    I called the Principal she said she did not know (difficult child) was next to her office that VP had gone home for the day and she couldn't answer any of my questions... I asked her what will happen tomorrow she said she didn't know! I asked her to call me early and let me know what they would do with difficult child she said she was busy and didn't know when she could call me she did not know when VP would be in????

    What do I do???
  2. flutterby

    flutterby Fly away!

    March into the school about 30 minutes after it starts and find out where your child is.

    If your child is sitting in the office with nothing to do, and since your principal is "too busy" to deal with it, I would then march over to the Administration building and demand to speak to the Superintendent.

    But, that's just me. Maybe others have better advice.
  3. sweetgfg

    sweetgfg Guest

    Thanks Flutteby... I feel like doing exactly that only I wanted to know... if any of you know what the policy is regarding this.... can the school do this?
  4. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Since you haven't done a profile signature yet, I'm not sure what age your difficult child is. I do know that at my difficult child's elementary school, in school suspension could mean sitting in the office all day. If the teacher had time to send work, the did. If not, the student read or was bored all day. Better than being home watching tv or on the computer or making a parent miss work. In middle school, there is actually a room up on the third floor of the building that is the ISS room. The student has to spend the day up there and the group goes to lunch after the rest of the student body is done - they sit them each at their own table so there is no talking. Same thing applies as far as work - if the teacher has time to gather it up, they get it. But in reality - if a child is suspended, the school has no responsibility to see the student gets their work. It's part of the consequence.

    However, ISS (in school suspension) requires the same written notification as out of school suspension. As a parent, you have a right to know that your child has been given ISS and the paperwork is supposed to be placed in the student's file. It might very well be a case that the VP was not sure what to do. The fact that your difficult child has an IEP does not mean that she can not be suspended. Is there a BIP in place? If so, do you know if it was followed?

    I would definitely be up at school today. If the principal had told me "I don't know" after I asked what was going to happen today, I would have been livid. I probably would have said, "That's not good enough". Put an extra book or two in her backpack (just in case it's another ISS day) and then go up there, like Heather suggested, about 30-60 minutes after school starts. Ask to see the principal and find out where your daughter is today. If she's in the office again, ask to see the incident report that gave her ISS.

    Good luck.

  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Can you please share more about your difficult child with us?

    As for the school, well, if my kid sat in the office one whole day and nobody told me, it would be the last day it ever happened. The very last day.
  6. sweetgfg

    sweetgfg Guest

    O.K. my difficult child is 11yrs old in the 5th grade this will be her last year at this school .... she has attended this school since kinder garden.... she was doing great from 1st grade which is when then gave her IEP and the Principal got to know my difficult child when difficult child was in 4th grade the principal was moved and we got a new principal this principal tends to think that difficult child CAN control herself and should not be given any assistance she tells me that difficult child is getting older and that in Middle school things will be different when difficult child is a target of bullying difficult child will get in trouble for defending herself the bully will get a verbal warning difficult child will get 3 to 4 days detention .... again principal will say difficult child needs to tell she is old enough and has been here long enough to know that...

    difficult child is trying so hard to fit in keep friends and is already beginning to notice boys but last year and this year have really tarnished her reputation and the kids have been very cruel to her...

    The principal just called me she said she doesn't know why I wasn't notified about difficult child spending the entire day at the office... I asked if she spoke to Vice Principal she said yes but did not ask her why I didn't get notified!!!! She then said that VP and her were very busy with IEPS and she would see me Monday at 3:30 pm so that she could explain how she did have a right to suspend difficult child!!!!
  7. flutterby

    flutterby Fly away!

    In our state, teachers are required to give students in ISS work. The main difference for us between ISI and OSI (out of school suspension/intervention), besides location, is that in ISI you can do your work and with OSI you have to take 0's for what you miss. Well, you don't have to, but the teachers are not required to let you make up the work as they are considered unexcused absences. Some will, some won't.

    Notification for ISI (or ISS - different schools call it different things) does have to be given. In my son's case, the AP called and a letter was sent home.
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I don't know where you live (it does matter) but NO school has a "right" to do what they want to do to your child who has an IEP without your input. If this principal insists on allowing your difficult child to be bullied, I'd call the cops on the kids who were doing it and inform them that the school will not help. It's pretty standard where we live for the cops to get involved if kids are bullied and it can be very effective. There is no way on the face of the earth I'd ALLOW my child to be bullied let alone tell that child that she will be punished for fighting back and the tormentors won't. The principal is an old fashion coot (sorry, hope I didn't offend anyone) :tongue:. In my day, we were told we had to learn to "deal with it." They know better today. Nobody should EVER have to worry about bullying in school. If the bullies do that as adults, they will be arrested.
    If your school superintendant (yes, I'd jump up th e ladder) does nothing, I'd call the Dept. of Public Education in your state (yes, I'd jump all the way to the top). They WILL listen to you and help you. For one thing, they can find you a free parent advocate who will attend your meetings and IEP meetings with you. Since they know the laws of the state, the school will not be pleased to see an advocate with you because while the schools often snow US, they CAN'T snow an advocate who will often speak for you (you meet the advocate in advance). Also, if your school district is being abusive or breaking any rules the Dept. of Public Education WILL investigate. The school districts really freak out and get on their game then because funding for each district is decided by the Dept. of Public Education;). The people in the Special Education Dept. of our Dept. of Public Ed are really nice and helpful and threw me a zillion resources as well as threatening to investigate our school district. Guess what? We got exactly what we wanted for our son the very next day. What a coincidence!
    I am on kid #5 and I've learned how to best deal with the school districts through having five kids. In short:

    1/Nice guys finish last...parents who are intimidated or give in or believe everything they are told are a school district's dream and they will not treat you or your child better because you are a nice parent

    2/The more involved you are with your child PLUS the more they know you hang around with knowledgeable sources...and can produce them...the more your child benefits. Forget the fear that if you make waves your child is picked on by the school. I've never ever heard of that happening. If anything, they bend over backward to please you if they know you aren't going to let them mistreat your child. I also got to know the teachers all very well, BUT as an equal and a peer. A teacher is not above me regarding my child. I'm above her/him. I know my child better. Also, remember that teachers and principals and all educators are not psychiatrists or psychologists.

    My best short advice is: Don't be intimidated, never ACT intimidated, and go to the top for your child.

    Good luck, whatever you decide to do. This school district is playing games with you and if you're done playing games, I'd stop...your Dept. of Public Education is usually in the state capital. Ask for the Special Needs Dept. and talk to a representative. Hope it all works out for you :D
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2010
  9. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    A childwith an IEP needs support and does NOT need a principal who says, "That's no excuse."

    The attitude of "At this age she shouldn't need support," doesn't apply to a difficult child. Age is not the issue. Experience is not the issue. Some kids just take longer than others for their brains to mature, and you can't force this. It's like expecting a baby to be able to do complex algebra before they can even talk. If your child had cerebral palsy or spina bifida, would the school have the same expectations of your child being able to compete in the annual cross-country event? Would they punish the child for failing to cross the finish line in a reasonable time? Would they refuse to allow the child to use crutches or wheelchair? Because the attitude you describe, is the same. I would tell them this.

    And now to bullying - the other kids will be learning, FAST, that the punishment is inequitable. They can hassle your child and they know she will get into more trouble than they will. We had tis problem with difficult child 3 - the kids picking on him were in a group all together and would give each other alibis. "He started it," was a common one. Or they would say, "It wasn't me, I was playing over in the far corner," and all their mates would nod vigorously. Part of difficult child 3's disability (and tis is something to watch for) is partial face blindness (aka prosopagnosia) and he was never confident he had identified the right kids. Again, the kids knew this and would play on it. So difficult child 3 would be in trouble for hitting a kid, when often it was self-defence or retaliation. One incident I regularly saw, was the "little darlngis" in difficult child 3's grade playing dominoes - they all had to line up before going into class, and the teacher was often late. So the kid on one end would shove the kid next to him, and the whole line would knock into one another like Newton's Cradle, and difficult child 3, who was usually on one end or the other, was the one to fall over hardest. He woldn't realise it was a domino effect but would think it was the kid next to him who had shoved him. Or sometimes he wasn't the last kid, but the second-last kid, and he would get into trouble for knocking over the last kid when it was because he himself had been shoved. It was all very unfair, and the other kids learned how to get away with it. Bullying went on for years and even when we were able to get witnesses to back up difficult child 3's side, the teacher undermined it and handled it so badly that the witness was intimidated and difficult child 3 was told, "You must have misunderstood. Because of your autism, what you sometimes tihnk you experienced isn't correct." So he came home even doubting the evidence of his own eyes!

    Schools should protect our children but often they take the easy option and scapegoat the difficult ones. Your child needs you to stand up for her and not let this go on. You should be kept in the loop and you should be able to insist on your child being provided with work to do. And a lot more.

    Go get 'em!

  10. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    My daughter was the target of bullying as well. It started getting bad in the fifth grade, and was really bad in the sixth. I gave her permission to fight back, since I felt the school wasn't doing all it could to correct the situation. The rules I set were that she couldn't start the fight, either verbally or physically, and she couldn't throw the first punch. She was also to clearly tell the bully to leave her alone, at the top of her voice, if necessary. After she landed a few good solid punches while screaming, "Leave me alone!", things improved. Every time the school called, I reminded them that we had been asking for help, and since they hadn't done all I felt they should, Miss KT had my permission to solve it herself.

    I am not advocating violence, and I realize this solution may not fit for you. I had a good relationship with the principal, so Miss KT was not suspended, even though the school was "zero tolerance." However, knowing that she had my permission to fight back helped her self-esteem and made her feel better about trying to solve problems with her words.
  11. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    Bullying is no joke. I was physically and mentally abused by bullies all through school once we moved to the suburbs. I was lucky enough to be in a Special Education program for gifted children when I lived in the city (Chicago).

    To this day, I have PTSD from those years of bullying. In fact, back then, teachers and counsellors insisted I had to be in some way causing it to happen! How? I guess walking with a limp, wearing thick glasses, and being extremely intelligent was a good reason to be bullied. I should just try to "get along".

    I wound up dropping out of HS as soon as I was able and getting my GED. I outwardly turned out "OK" back then, but I'll bear the scars for the rest of my life.
  12. sweetgfg

    sweetgfg Guest

    UPDATE... but first let me answer this question... I'm in southern California...

    The principal called me Friday morning before school started.. she said she had spoken to VP and that indeed my difficult child had been in the office all day on Thursday but that they had asked difficult child if she wanted to go to math class and she refused??? Principal also said a driend of difficult child was allowed to spend time with difficult child while she was in the office... I asked her why no one notified me she apologized for that but she had no answer and VP was again not available to answer this question... She then reminded me we were to meet Monday just and only to speak about how she COULD HAVE SUSPENDED difficult child she stressed out that this would be all we would be talking about....She then said difficult child would be in regular school day...

    Before bringing difficult child to school I asked her if she had been asked to go to math she said NO but her friend did come in to keep her company for a bit....

    I then drove to school district (not Los Angeles) to file a complain... The superintendant and the assistant superintendant happened to be there they took my written complain then asked me to tell it to them... I did when I was done they spoke to each other as if i wasn't there they said stuff like well this principal is so caring she has a big heart she has over 25 yrs of experience in Special Education. I bet last night she was working late trying to catch up since she had an emergency and the VP is only a week new and she is just wonderful ... but we will talk to them ... we are just happy principal did call you this morning and she is trying to end this year in a positive note... we will talk to her though... I left the office feeling emotionally raped...

    Then I get a call from difficult child's teacher saying that difficult child took a ball that a boy brought form home and difficult child lost it and should replace it and would be getting consequences... I asked teacher what was the policy on bringing toys from home because I thought it was not allowed she said that students were allowed because of the budget cuts the kids could bring balls to play with at school....I told teacher I would talk to difficult child and get back to her...

    I called a recess supervisor that I know and she loves difficult child well she happened to be the one handling the incident she said the boy did bring a small ball that could easily fit in your hand and be concealed a group of kids were palying with it throwing kicking etc. when difficult child joined in they all told her no and chased her she dropped the ball it was lost the bell rang the supervior told the boy these toys were not allowed on campus for the same reason they are not responsible if it get lost and the 5th graders had been warned twice this year...
    the bell rang and everyone went to class then supervisor notice difficult child searching the playground ... apparantly the kids told the teacher (who didn't witness the incident) and she sent difficult child out to look for the ball.... Now what if difficult child had not done so and decided to run off elsewhere she would have been in bigger problems... and why is teacher taking sides???? and thenteacher lied to me about the policy of bringing toys to school??? Now I'm wondering if Thursday the teacher might have been the one Not to want difficult child in class...I am so emotionally drained now I have another battle....

    difficult child is 11yrs old Beautiful Princess
    5th grade
    diagnosed ODD
    I suspect autism or AS
    Me 39
    easy child wonderful 13 yr old Boy
  13. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    One last time and I'll be done:

    Call the Dept. of Public Education. The Superintendants usually protect their teachers to the detriment of our kids. If you don't just expect more of the same...them covering for one another and punishing your child with little you can do about it. Do not expect anyone involved in your school district to go to bat for you over their employees. You need The Dept. of Education and an advocate for that.

    Good luck ;)
  14. helpme

    helpme New Member

    Quick advice:

    FIND AN ADVOCATE. be careful of the consequences of filing complaints,
    especially when you do not have a plan to get help for future situations.

    Ask for an IEP review (check your state laws). Try to get the following added into the IEP.

    Ask for one disciplinarian to deal with all issues related to your child.
    Ask that you be notified within the exact school day of any reported issues.

    Start reading/learning more about BIEP (behavioral IEPs).
    Some school districts fight having BIEPS, others dont.
    Some would rather have the information within the IEP, leaving the child
    without a BIEP.

    personally, our school district fought a BIEP, because it lead to difficulties for the
    alternative high school environment. But the school district did agree and stand by
    the "we will contact parent A, then parent B, then whoever C, BEFORE
    speaking with difficult child" "parent X/difficult child will then proceed through disciplinary
    system together, with Special Education case manager".

    in our case, we used the defined "speech/language delay/impairment"
    to suggest that difficult child needed us there to define the consequences and
    his "words" (lies) about such situations.

    this lead to a very fine paper trail, that a parent could use later on.
    but for us, a call on one issue, on a specific day, usually lead to
    us being there for a total of 5 issues, which all took nearly a day
    to deal with. but we were never "in the dark".

    Good luck.
    again, GET AN ADVOCATE.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2010