Neuro-psychologist's report

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Malika, Sep 22, 2011.

  1. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    I have received the report from the neuro-psychologist. As I thought, it is purely an intelligence test (WPPSI-III). I have to take the results with a little pinch of salt as J did not answer all the questions, even some of them that I know he knows (eg what does a telephone do). Bang goes my idea that he is very intelligent as according to this he has an IQ of 97 (ie average for his age). But I knew he wasn't academically gifted...
    This is what it says - if anyone can cast any further light, it would be much appreciated :)
    His verbal skills are average for his age.
    His performance skills are also average for his age, although he has "constructing abilities below the standard expected for his age in reproducing a model based on 4 cubes" - on the other hand, he correctly conceptualises when presented with images.
    His grapho-motor skills are, according to the test, good.

    The conclusion is that he is normal for his age and that although a physical agitation was noted during the test, particularly during the verbal part of the test, it is not possible to diagnosis ADHD at this time. The cube exercises revealed visuo-constructive problems for which an eye exam is recommended (he has already had a complete one - no problems).

    So, not sure what, if anything, this tells me...
  2. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I'm a bit surprised that it was, evidently, academic and not inclusive of behavioral testing. The tests we have had included a recap of personal history, previous observations from the parent and then an evaluation from the testing psychologists on attitude, reactions to questions and an overview of comparative behaviors and maturity using peer group norms. Ours also included the chld's responses to those around and peers. Age appropriate comments like "Johnny expressed he was unhappy that he is not allowed to play outside after dark with his friends."
    Usually not earth shattering revelations but an independent report of how the child sees his life, his fears, his angers etc. Even when it isn't followed by a diagnosis. it has been helpful.

    on the other hand, you now have knowledge you didn't have before and the more we know helps us parent over the long run. I guess it's a bit of a mixed blessing. You don't know too much more than you did going in but you have professionals who are assuring you that he is "normal" for his age group. Store the report in a safe place so if you have to do subsquent testing you will have the base line for comparison. I think it's great you had it done. DDD
  3. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Yes, thanks DDD... Again, I guess it shows the incompleteness of French approaches to psychology as opposed to some other countries' approaches... The conclusion of "normal" is not really very complete, I think. J was very quick to see the relationship between things when presented with visual images and got every one of these questions right, quickly. On the other hand, when asked what colour grass was he said "red" and when pressed just said he did not know. He could not point to the colour green... This to me is showing something that needs further examination. A quick trip to a private neuro-psychiatric in the States is, alas, beyond my means and possibility... and, then, it would all be in English, which is now J's weaker language :)
    So I don't know...
  4. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't put too much stock in the "IQ" rating... at this age, its not cast in stone; the important statement there is that he is of "normal intellegence".

    The colors issue... keep an eye on this. In particular... it could be related to working memory - depending on what stage in the testing that particular set of tasks came, he could have been mentally tired, or his brain "full" already - and so had difficulty with recall - especially if you don't see the issue consistently. OR, it could be auditory-processing related. It will be at least 2 or 3 years before there can be enough evidence to pursue either of those as possibilities. Just keep an eye out for these sorts of things, maybe start a log. Neither issue is life-shattering, just need to know how to accommodate.

    The "constructing" issue - I'm not sure what the tasks were here, compared to the grapho-motor component - but sometimes, a "constructing" issue can be related to neuro-motor difficulties. Again, its not something obvious, and may just be uneven development, too. Nothing to worry about or do anything about at this stage.

    Part of the testing process is just to see how he handles the testing process. Those observations are at least as important as the results. Had there been something really significant going on - such as Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) - the examiner would likely have noticed.

    <tongue in cheek now> If you could make it to North America at all, you can get around the language barrier by coming to Quebec for testing...!

    More seriously - testing at this age is limited anyway. Our dxes were not based on testing at that age (confirmation came later), but on in-class observation by a behavior specialist - which you don't have access to either. <sigh> And they won't be testing for mental illnesses at this age no matter where you are.

    None of which helps you know how to deal with him right now. Nor how to get the school to help either.

    <knowing smile>
  5. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Thanks Insane. The colours thing... is ongoing and consistent. He does not "know" or remember certain colours - and the ones he does know took him a really look time to learn, with many repetitions.
    The exercise with the cubes was one where he had to reproduce an identical pattern with 4 cubes. Mainly he did this correctly but slowly (and had difficulty pushing the cubes together at the end for some reason, as though not realising that was part of the test) but with the last one, the most complicated perhaps, he just could not do it correctly and got bits of the pattern the wrong way round...
    So I think there is more than meets the eye with just a conclusion of "normal", really. The psychologist did say that children of this age are so variable in their development. She also said, despite him being really inattentive during the verbal questions, insisting he wanted to go and play, and doing things like putting his head in his shirt (accompanied by a huge grin) rather than answering, and then ultimately rolling around on the floor, refusing to co-operate at all (all this in the latter part of the test, which took about an hour and a half), that he did not seem to her to have ADHD. Go figure...
  6. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Totally left-curve question... has he ever been tested for color-blindness? It happens more often in males than in females, and affects certain colors more than others... but it would be worth knowing. Optometrist or opthamologist would be able to check that one. Might be worth ruling out?

    I don't get the "not seeming to have ADHD" part either... especially if no other explanation is given for the behaviors observed. Here... you would at least have had a "rule out" statement... that is, seeing tendencies toward X but can't make a diagnosis yet, so flag it for later re-check.Just my usual rambles.
  7. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Yes, tested for colour blindness some time back. He isn't.
    Her comment that she didn't think he had ADHD was not in the report (what she said there was that it could not at this stage be asserted that he had ADHD, rather different) was just one made to me, in talking, based on the fact that she said that the hyperactive kids she had worked with could not sit and concentrate for as long as J had... Bit like the comment his teacher makes. Truth is, I just don't know (of course) but I wonder whether J isn't what might be called really high-functioning ADHD - that is, when he needs to, like at school, he pulls out all the stops and manages to fit in and "be normal". But then I've never actually seen him at school, apart from peering in at the window once and seeing him sitting quietly. So I am just going on hearsay.
  8. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Although I am no expert I've long had the impression that her in the States parents seek help earlier than in other countries. I can think of a number of reasons this might be true. on the other hand I believe that seeking guidance for a child who appears "to follow the beat of a different drummer" early on can assure greater long lasting success. You're paying attention, doing research and networking and have sought professional help. Good job. If the time comes when his functioning is seriously impacting his life in a negative way (and hopefully that won't happen) I'm sure you'll find additional help. Hugs. DDD
  9. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    It used to be thought that IQ is a stagnent number. It is now known that IQ test results can fluctuate greatly. Eeyore has scores between 91-126, well outside the standard deviation for the test. Tigger also tested in the high 90s, but he is clearly much brighter than that.

    I would ask for them to do the Connor's (if they do that in France). Otherwise, is it possible to go to a different country for testing?
  10. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    One of the challenges is that many of the testing tools are developed in English - and not all of them have been translated to other languages.
  11. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    They do use the Connors in France to diagnose ADHD but it is not used at age four. The diagnosis is given at age six or thereabouts. The child psychiatrist has mentioned Connors but is clearly in no hurry to use it. In any case, I know Connors back to front and can tell you that J fully fits the criteria! She says that J looks like he is ADHD, and is assuming that he is in all the advice she gives me, but that we do not know this for sure yet...
    A more accurate IQ score doesn't really bother me at this stage. Just the statement that he is within normal range is all that was needed to be known, I think. It just tells us that any problems that J may have at school are not because he is not intellectually capable of learning - this will be important.
  12. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    You wondered if he's "pulling out all the stops" at school... my guess is, most likely that is true. Kids really do want to do well, and will do their best if there is any hope of coming close. Obviously, J is having reasonable success at school. But... if it takes him significantly more "effort", then by the time he gets home he may not have enough left to behave well there too... even if the problems are happening before school and not just after school, because he may be subconsiously reserving his "energy" for school.I'm not talking physical energy. Rather... that part of the brain that handles executive functions, plus working memory, plus motor skills if applicable. Maybe add in some auditory stuff - there's a chance of that kicking around, too. I think you're on the right track with things like tennis - here it would be swimming, soccer, baseball... but whatever activity he can enjoy, do reasonably well at (i.e. fit in with the group), and handle without burn-out side-effects, will help bring the physical energy level more in line with the mental energy level. Helps with sleep, appetite, and so on.I think you're doing rather well at this game, Malika. You already know that Conners is available for use in another year or two. By that point, other issues will also be coming out of the woodwork if they are there at all.
  13. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    I had a chat with the neuro-psychologist about the report. She didn't really have that much more to add but she did recommend that J saw something called an orthopist. Apparently this person will be able to say more about whether J may have dyslexia... This is the English term, but I have never heard mention of it in these forums. Do you have these in the States?
  14. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Dyslexia is one of the common learning disabilities. Has to do with the processing of the symbols of language... so, affects reading and writing. Spelling is a challenge. Letter reversals/substitutions, mis-reading words. Its not the end of the world, but does take some accommodations etc. I don't know what the "things that help" are, because we haven't had to actually deal with this one. (We're familiar with dysgraphia... which affects written output but not written input.)
  15. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    In the interests of our general education :))), here is the definition of an orthoptist, who is the next "professional" J has been recommended to see:

    An orthoptist will test for a variety of possible causes for vision problems. Difficulties with binocular vision are common with dyslexics and some other conditions, and so they will measure how well the eyes are held straight, how well and quickly they adjust their focusing and the eyes' fusion.

    So there you go! May be of interest to someone?
  16. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Not sure what connection an orthopist would have with dyslexia, then.
    Dyslexia is a "brain-wiring" thing - nothing to do with vision.

    Unless the orthopist has "other angles" which includes testing for learning disabilities?
  17. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    From the net:

    Eyes and Dyslexia

    Around 35-40% of people with dyslexic difficulties are estimated to experience visual disturbance or discomfort when reading print. They may experience one or several of the following:

    • Blurred letters or words which go out of focus.
    • Letters which move or present with back to front appearance or shimmering or shaking.
    • Headaches from reading.
    • Words or letters which break into two and appear as double.
    • Find it easier to read large, widely spaced print, than small and crowded.
    • Difficulty with tracking across the page.
    • Upset by glare on the page or oversensitive to bright lights.
    In some cases any of these symptoms can significantly affect reading ability. It can also make reading very tiring. Of course a child will not necessarily recognise what they see as a problem, as this is how they always see text.
    If a child complains of a least one of these problems or has difficulty at school, they should be referred to an optometrist or orthoptist with expertise in this particular field.
  18. Ktllc

    Ktllc New Member

    About the orthoptist: I've seen one when was younger and still living in France. It was cpmpletly unrelated to any Learning Disability (LD), but it helps strenghtens the eye muscles, coordinate both eyes, eaching the eyes to use different angles or depth, etc...
    Otherwise, it's always annoying to hear that our difficult child are too young for certain tests... I know how you feel!
    in my humble opinion, I don't believe you would get more answer in an other country.
    We have met with 5 different teams of experts to be where we're at!! 5 is a lot! And we are going to see number 6 hopefully soon.
    Keep digging, asking questions. That's the only way, where ever you are.
  19. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Interesting. I've got 4 out of 7 of those. There is nothing wrong with my eyes that would prevent me from reading, but reading is easier for me with some accommodations. I've also never been diagnosis with a learning disability. Please keep us up-dated.
  20. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Ktlc -
    Your son is FIVE. You are doing so well, you have NO idea how far ahead of the game you really are.

    My son is a teenager. We're just getting answers NOW.
    Having said that... part of the problem is that the tests we needed 10+ years ago, didn't exist back then... some have only been around (at least here) for a couple of years.