Never needed rattled beads and board power like this before :( :(

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Mattsmom277, Jul 4, 2009.

  1. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    I'm far too tired to even try to finish unravelling mysteries to this all myself, it's been the worst past week I've ever had in my life, no exaggeration.

    On Saturday evening, my fiance and I had another couple for dinner outside. Both my children were home too. This couple live 2 doors over and are pretty new to the neighbourhood and we are just getting to know them a bit and it was the first time we'd had them for dinner. Within a short while of their arrival, we were all (kids too) outside in the sun at the patio table visiting, when another neighbour, who lives directly behind us, arrived without invitation and just made himself right at home.

    So this man. He is early 40's. Been behind us for 4 years. He is scitzophrenic (sp.wrong), a hard core alcoholic who begins drinking when he wakes until he sleeps, well known by all in neighbourhood as he spends alot of time outside, making chat with whoever on our road is outside, carrying this nearly 2 litre size bottle of alcohol he has with him at all times. We've all on the road seen him drunk more than sober. He also has a hard core addiction to prescription pain medications. He has now developed to crushing them to snort them.

    Oddly, we all on the road have made nice with him when he's out. We have all always known his ability to be violent. We have all seen the police break in his door to hospitalize him as a danger to others several times over the years and also so many police calls from neighbours that he was a disturbance etc that I swear they can just camp in the driveway in their cruiser. Despite all of this, never has he been violent or aggressive to anyone on our road. We've seen him beaten up, or his knuckles all destroyed from him beating someone else, but nobody knows details. This would all occur away from our neighbourhood.

    Past few weeks, we've seen a noticable decline in his mental health. behaviour never in 4 years seen was happening. Anger in his face, shaking with rage about one particular man in our road, plotting to hurt that man, telling one neighbour something about another, and all the stories said to different people differing. All these stories were in effort to in a crafty manner start disputes and conflict between neighbours on our road. Now we are talking about 15 houses, all close together in a somewhat secluded street in the middle of town. Most have been here for decades or passed homes to their children, grandchildren etc. We are a nice community that all know each other, enjoy each other, keep private lives but feel comfortable with each other and know that we have a unique situation here that allows us to feel like a little community. It's been lovely here for 5 years that I've been here.

    So, he's behaving strangely everywhere, although much of this only came to light after all neighbours began speaking this Sunday following events Saturday night. Meanwhile, for past several weeks, we've grown uncomfortable as this guy has began coming to our yard and making himself at home every single time we use our yard, and will not leave until we go back inside the house. Its been upsetting, we've lost all privacy and have been taking to staying inside when we'd rather be outside enjoying summer. Due to his newly odd behaviour, we do not feel comfortable asking him to leave directly as he was increasingly obviously unstable.

    So Saturday night he arrives and brings his alcohol, cigs, cell phone and just walks into the yard, pulls up a chair to our table and acts like he is invited, and part of our gathering. He had a look of insanity that was hair raising. His eyes were solid black, he was trembling slightly as his body was wound so tight with some boiling rage. He attempted to make normal conversation and all of us were afraid and went along with it although making eye contact behind his back to show we were all alarmed. He had obviously lost touch with reality. I have truly never seen anything like this man that night in my life. never even in psycho thriller movies. I am not alone in this, everyone on the road is saying same thing at this point. He is not only mentally unstable but now we know how very dangerous and cunning and diabolical he is. Gosh, this is hard to even type, getting to the point of Sat. night is hard as to type it brings it all back. I'll just get to it :(

    So we all proceed with dinner, ensuring we just went along with his lunatic conversation. I kept the kids away. We did not drag dinner out into the social night we planned, but rather tried to appear normal but in fact rushing as fast as possible as to wind it all up. As it became dark, we tried subtly to imply it was time for him to head home etc. No go. So once it was fully dark my guests thanked us for dinner, and went home. This left my fiance, myself and this neighbour in my yard. My S/O and I started stacking dishes etc remaining on table to clean up to bring inside and hoped that this guy would leave. He didn't. He stayed sitting there and talking crazily (much of evening was a rage talk wanting us all to invite this man he has an issue with for about 6 weeks now, over to our yard, so this guy could give him drinks, get him drunk and vulnerable in order that he could attack him and hurt him). We just kept about our business and were discussing how we need an early night as we had been up late night before (not even true, just for tricking him to leave purposes). I should say, in spite of all this, our fear was for the man who he was raging about, never was it directed at us, in fact for all these years, this man has been beyond polite and respectful (if a bit invasive into our private goings on) to us, more than even other neighbours.

    So my S/O hugs me in order to whisper go inside for night, i'll bring the last of things inside, then we'll have to call police or something. He lets me go from our hug, says love you babe, be inside in a second when I finish gathering the dishes. I said goodbye to the guy, trying to appease him I thanked him for his company and said I hoped he had a good night.

    I came inside, began cleaning the mess from our dinner etc, doing dishes. I finally finished and no sign of my S/O. I put my shoes on to head back to the yard, knowing that as is the case lately as this guys been losing it past few weeks, he'll keep yacking your ear off, not wanting to end a conversation until its his choice to do so. We'd been kept talking for up to an hour a week before this beyond us saying to him we had to head off. So I intended to go tell a lie to my S/O that he needed to end the chatting as his mother was on the phone long distance, thus cutting of this guys endless rambling.

    I go outside, its darker than dark with our bonfire out, torches off, candles we'd had out now extinguished. No sign of a soul. Not this guy. Not my S/O. I saw the dishes stacked ready to carry inside and assumed our dinner guests had left something on table that S/O walked up to return and probably got to talking to them about what we should do about this man having been so violent in nature in his talk etc. I head up in the dark street to this couples house and as I cross their lawn to their front porch and door, I hear screaming and yelling. The outdoor light on the porch suddenly comes on and I see this man has my S/O flat on his back on the porch. Wearing steel toe boots his is repeatedly kicking my S/O in the head with a strong force. The husband of the couple whose house this was was screaming and trying to stop this guy. The wife was screaming on phone to 911 and staying safe distance back. to sum it all up, it took about 4-5 more minutes for the police to arrive. Unbeknown to us all, many on our road had all called 911. I had zero idea what happened, what was happening. but I see my S/O not moving a muscle and being brutally beaten to the head with steel toe boots and without thinking I'm on the porch screaming and trying to pull this guy off my S/O along with the husband of this nice couple.

    The guy stopped beating my S/O (who at no point makes a single movement, I thought he was dead and everyone, I have never known a feeling such as this in my life).This guy aimed his attention at me, yelling crazy stuff that my S/O is out of my life now, he and I with my kids can now be the family we have been for 4 years but without my S/O to muddy things up. He is screaming that I am to help him beat my S/O even further to get my S/O back for keeping this guy and i apart for all these years and stealing 4 years of family time away, and on and on. At some point, it is very much a blur those few minutes, I realized I needed to fear this man. I had been so afraid for my S/O I was recklessly yelling at this man that he was beeping nuts and what have you done and one point even began beating him on his chests with my fists. I cannot believe I am not in hospital myself, that he did not attack me as well.

    Police arrive and we are all hysterical. This couple has now hidden behind their locked door, S/O is not moving in the dark on the ground. I couldn't tell what injuries he had. Police are at the road getting out of the car. This guy walks over my S/O to the front lawn and calmly lights a smoke??? I go running to police screaming to call an ambulance. Tell them who my S/O is and that I have no clue what happened, I live 2 doors away and came looking to where was my S/O and came upon him being brutally attacked and was confused. I told police to please call ambulance and that I'd be right back as I had to go home to tell my son to watch my daughter and lock our door. I believed I would be going to hospital with S/O and this guy would be going to jail and between police statements and hospital, I'd be gone for hours. I also truly believed my S/O was dead!!! I dont' think I was too rational in behaviour at this point.

    I ran home the 2 doors away, tried to appear somewhat calm (failing badly) to my difficult child. Told him that he had to lock door, call my brother to come stay right away, that something happened, my S/O was hurt, neighbour involved, police outside, ambulance coming, don't tell your sister a thing to scare her etc. I never said anything about my S/O's injuries or not moving, trying to keep my son calm. All in all, I was with difficult child for probably about 5 minutes. I then run out the door to run back to be there for ambulance and got the shock of my life when the street was dark. So quite I heard the crickets chirping. No police, no ambulance, no S/O, no crazy neighbour, nobody.

    I assumed that S/O was so bad, that the police quickly took away the crazy neighbour, ambulance had already left, and that had to bode badly for the status of my S/O. I ran like a nutcase in through my neighbours door, the husband standing watching me run in (main door was opened and only screen door in my way, he made a come in gesture with his arms). I for a second registered fear on his face but in my panic for S/O didn't really consider why he was afraid looking. I said please please can you both (him and his wife) take me to the hospital, I never saw my S/O move, is he dead??? I'm sobbing at this point and actually fell to my knees, my legs so weak they didn't hold me.

    I hear this booming angry voice from direction of the living room saying just who do you think is at the hospital? It is crazy neighbour?? I jump to feet, go to living room, the wife is on the couch looking terrified clutching a decorative pillow. Crazy guy in a chair smoking. Me yelling what the hell is going on. Where is my S/O? and I don't know what else. I swear I had no common sense left, I was so afraid for my S/O, I didn't even question myself challenging a man so insane. I keep thinking God must have been watching out for me or something because I was foolishly creating conflict with such a dangerous person.

    He's talking crazy etc. The couple and I head out their door and go dashing to my house, crazy guy calmly walking behind us. Because we were running we got to my house first and in the door, locked it, went about and 3 of us locked and put the bars in the windows and closed all blinds and curtains. They make me sit and breathe so they can help me understand what happened.

    So, when they were locked in fear behind their door and I was telling difficult child what was happening, S/O was not moving on porch and that left only police and crazy guy outside. Crazy guy is asked what happened here. Crazy guy calmly tells police that my S/O had been beating ME and that he jumped in to protect me. They asked was he hurt, he said no. They went to porch and shook my S/O, they lifted him under each arm (2 officers) to his feet. He could not stand on his own. He was sort of opening and closing his eyes and only upright from the police holding him upright. They ask him his name, babble comes out of his mouth. Crazy guy tells police his name and says my S/O is too drunk to make sense. Police must have believed it since crazy guy has this stupid huge liquor bottle he always has. Police assumed it was a bunch of drunks getting stupid and decide my S/O, although in rough condition on his face, is drunk and starting trouble, and without speaking to anyone else or waiting for me to come back or calling ambulance, tell crazy guy to go home and settle down and sober up, and proceed to take what they think is my drunk and out of control S/O to the police station to spend the night in the drunk tank.

    I swear everyone, I must have been in such a state of shock. I could make no sense of anything here, all this having happened within just minutes etc. I quickly called S/O's sister, told her brief version, begged her to call for info at police station as we aren't married and they likely would tell me nothing, and call me right back. I was having a real breakdown at this point. I still didn't think that police would take S/O away. I had in my head they must have not waited for amublance but instead took S/O to hospital themselves because they couldn't afford time to wait for ambulance. How naive I realize now that I am.

    S/O's sister calls back and says police DO have my S/O in the drunk tank, and he'll be released when he "sobers up". I think I really lost the plot for about 10 minutes then. Sobbing and hearing nothing from anyone, so confused and not making sense of any of this.

    Thankfully, I snapped to protective wife type mode, and put emotion aside. We got the police to understand the situation, lets just say they are afraid of a law suit at this point, as had they talked to ANYONE else, they'd have realized they had a head injured patient, not a drunk, and that crazy guy was, well, CRAZY and dangerous etc.

    Thankfully, S/O is okay. Meaning no permanent damage to brain. We dont' know about his one eye, it is full of blood and no clue whats causing that. Hoping its broken blood vessels that will heal in time. Even a week later, I want to weep when I see his face. It will be well over a month before his face appears normal again. He has no memory of anything beyond when he hugged me and said he loved me after whispering to me to go inside.

    Immediatly next to my house, new people bought the property 2 months ago. We'd not yet met. Their bedroom window is within about 10 feet of where my patio table sits by the fence seperating our yard. They told us on Sunday morning that THEY were first to call police. We now know that there were 2 attacks on my S/O. When I went inside, left alone with crazy guy, my S/O was collecting dishes and guy leaped on him from behind and knocked him to the ground and starting kicking him repeatedly in the head. New neighbours saw through window, they'd heard me go inside, heard S/O say he loved me, then saw through window this guy attack my S/O. They ran to living room, phoned 911. By the time they got off phone, went back to that window, nobody was outside. Well meanwhile, in the shadows on the grass, lay my S/O unconcious.

    Crazy guy then walked 2 doors up to my dinner guests home and waltzed in their door, sat down in a chair and settled in to visit. Scaring the jeepers out of this couple and leaving them afraid and not knowing what to do. About 5-10 minutes later, my S/O came back round and was bleeding all about his face, mouth gushing blood, confused, barely able to walk. Instead of coming inside, for unknown reasons, (he has no clue, he was obviously not able to have rational thought) he walked to this couples house. Upon arrival, crazy guy ran out to the porch and knocked down my S/O again and started kicking him in the head again, within minutes along I came unknowing what was happening, and from there, well all that I said above, unfolded.

    Since this, we have learned that this guy has been obsessed with me since he moved in. Believed he would wait patiently for me to get rid of my S/O as of course I would come to love HIM and invite him to be part of my family. He had considered his waiting it out years (4 years!!!) "phase one" of the plan to be with me. "Phase two" was when his patience ran out so he waited for months for a chance to be without witnesses, to attack my S/O. Now that this has not worked, he has said he must move on to "phase three". Nobody knows what phase three is, in his twisted sick mind. So even all those years medicated and non violent, he was plotting all of this. Now that he must be off medications or something, it is even worse, but scarily, even on medications, he was planning ALL of this.

    I've learned so many other things since, and he has made so many twisted threats. He also has a home full of machetes, knives (hunting, collectables, etc) and swords. He has a swastika flag in his kitchen. He belongs to a white supremicist group and has been suspected of attacks on immigrants but no evidence. In our stupid system, EVERYONE but rapists and murderers get bail. Despite their history etc. We have been prisoners in our home for nearly a week now. Police are now, espeically given how they could have had a corpse in their drunk tank from a brain injury and they screwed up BADLY, being very helpful.

    I am a renter, as is this crazy guy. We share a landlord who lives 4 hours away. We have a superintendent across the street. They've both been good. Crazy guy is on eviction and also been issued no trespassing orders for my address and 6 others on our road (his fixation is centered on me, but he also has made threats against others this week, also waltzed right into a single womans apartment, someone he'd never met before in his life, scared her badly!). He plans to plead not guilty to multiple charges and to fight the eviction. he will lose both. Charges well so many witnesses. The eviction is under the part of the landlord tenant act tht dictates once someone is a safety threat, they must go if landlord applies for eviction. Around the 13th, there will be a hearing since he's fighting eviction, and in this insane system, to get him out, we all have to be in a hearing room WITH him to tell the landlord/tenant tribunal why he's a safety threat. DOH! Huh?? Okay, so someone is THAT dangerous but to get rid of him, we have to be TOGETHER in a room and let him hear what all we know about him, this crazy unstable person?? I am beyond shock at the stupidity of so many laws that supposedly protect peoples rights but often leave others vulnerable to serious harm.
  2. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    Before my easy child could see my S/O, I sent her to her bio dads. She was to be home all this week, then on a 2 week holiday to the east coast with her dad and step mom. I faked a flare of my MS (ironically now not faked, the stress has induced a flare and i"m a physical mess) so that easy child would not know what happened to S/O and so she would not be here as this guy is still around and a serious threat.

    difficult child is not allowed outside. We don't leave. If we do go somewhere (police station with the superintendent etc), we make difficult child come too. House is locked tight. No curtains or blinds open. We feel like we are under seige. We are now attempting to find a way to somehow relax and try to cope in a healthy way until he is gone. We do know that won't stop him from returning to our road if he wants, but at least he'll no longer be behind us and if he comes round, all on the road would call police right away knowing he is here to harm someone.

    There's so much more to this, events this week, things we learned about his thoughts and words and actions past 4 years. He believes truly that him and I are meant to be together. He is commited to his "phase three" since the "phase two" attack on S/O did not get S/O out of our lives. It is believed by all of us and police, that after attack 1, when S/O was unconcious on grass outside my house, this guy believed him dead then calmly walked up and straight into the house 2 doors away, as if he'd not done anything to worry about, and was just out for a neighbourly visit.

    our entire road has houses locked as tight as mine. We have all exchanged telephone numbers and inform each other of any new development. Nobody will walk out their door alone. No kids are playing outside. Nobody even goes to their car in their driveways alone.

    We live a society where people this dangerous get such compassion from their illness, that they can be free to roam our streets until they literally kill someone. He meant to kill my S/O. When he accepts I will never be with him, will he want to kill me??? He considers my children as HIS children. When will they ever be, and how can I keep them, safe??? I thank God that easy child is now at her dads, off to holiday on Wed. She will not return until after eviction is done and S/O's face should be much improved then. I don[t know how I will explain his face to her come that time.

    Meanwhile, we sit and try to not to drive ourselves crazy with fear. I sleep with a phone under my pillow and bear spray on my night table. I am waking up in panic, dripping sweat, just suddenly jerking awake at a slight noise and bolting up in fear in bed. I'm trying to NOT let this consume us. NOT let this disable my sleep. NOT let this affect my MS. But our subcouncious is a funny place. I wake up in the night thinking I have to protect S/O. From a dead sleep :(

    I am thankful S/O is alive and no brain damage. I am thankful my kids and I are safe right now. I am thankful for my terrific road and the people here. My landlord and superintendent gave my family lovely roses the other day to express their sadness at this happening to us. I am thankful the police finally know that this man is as dangerous as he is. Ever officer for every shift has been brought up to date as to if a call comes in from our road about him, to not mess around, ask no questions, just get here, fast. They know to deal with him firmly as he is a danger to the officers as well and is a man with a ton of weapons that legally he is allowed to have since he calls them "collectables". I am thankful that this week so many around our road have told us how valued we are to the area and well thought of and cared about. I am thankful they are watching for us, keeping alert, calling to check on us and inquire how we are coping etc.

    I have alot to be thankful for. Yet I sit in fear for all of us and even following his eviction, will never know when or if he loses his obsession with me, and when or if I am at risk or the kids or S/O. I feel I've been robbed of security and have no clue how we are to reclaim it.

    Please rattle beads for us. I have asked in the past, have rattled for many of you as well, but never have I felt a need this urgent to have good karma, prayers, posititivy sent our way.

    Apologies for the absurd length. I didn't intend to say so much but once typing it felt theraputic to get out my feelings. Trying to behave bravely and not appear so rattled to difficult child, to be there for S/O and not show anyone how badly this has affected me, I didn't realize how much I needed to pour my heart out SOMEHOW.

    Anyone who waded through ALL of that, bless your heart!! It is nearly a novel. Thank you for taking the time. Anyone unable to read ALL that, can't blame you. Whew!!!!
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Wow. What a horrible ordeal. Hugs and prayers sent to you. Where in the world IS this???? I know where I live even a mentally ill person would be arrested or taken to a hospital if he was dangerous, rights or no rights. A mentally ill drug addict lives near us and he somehow ended up in somebody's house...he was taken away. Nobody has seen him since.

    I'm so glad everyone will be all right. Sending love to all of you and hopes for a fast recovery for SO.
  4. muttmeister

    muttmeister Well-Known Member

    Wow, I don't blame you for being freaked out. I'm seriously saying prayers for you and your family. Do you have a way to protect yourself? I don't know what the laws are where you live and I don't know how you feel about it but I do have a gun in the house and I do know how to use it. I know that's not for everybody but, in a situation like this, I would feel much safer knowing I had something for protection besides my wits.
    Good luck.
  5. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    Thank you for the good thoughts. I'm in Ontario Canada. We have laws to lock up dangerous mentally ill people as well, in psychiatric hospital if they are danger to themselves or others.

    Ironically, this nut and I share a family doctor. The doctors receptionist is also my superintendents sister in law. The superintendent called the receptionist at work, with me beside her at her house, and told this all to her, as well as sending photos of my S/O's injuries to her. I then spoke to receptionist and answered all her questions etc. On Thursday morning I was told by the receptionist that she hoped the doctor could help my S/O and I, and she'd call me back after lunch. After 5p.m. she phoned and explained she passed info along to the doctor and that for privacy reasons can tell me nothing. As this nut is their patient, he has rights (which I fully understand) and they can't even confirm he's a patient of theirs, let alone tell me anything personal. But wanted to assure me that the information from the superintendent and myself had been passed to the doctor.

    The superintendent and I assumed that within a few hours at most, the police and ambulance would arrive to take him by force if needed to pyschiatric hospital. (this has been done before with this guy, although nobody knows why, other than he was deemed a danger to others. This has happened a few times over past 4 years)

    This has not transpired. My doctor does no office hours Fridays during summer, so isn't back in his office until Monday. I thought perhaps Monday it would happen,t hat maybe doctor needs a judge signature to commit the man or something and that given it was end of business day etc, his hands are tied until MOnday morning.

    However I have learned from police that all that the doctor must do is call the station, give his name and medical license number and call in what is called a N2 (I think thats the code). A N2 is a code for police to be permitted to take a person to psychiatric hospital for admission as a threat to others or themselves. Literally all the doctor has to do is call in with his license number, state he is phoning in this N2 regarding so and so (insert name) and give them the persons date of birth, age, address etc. Then the police must arrange enough officers as is deemed needed, and arrange for ambulance to be in attendance, and they can pick him up. They have even smashed his door in before to do this same process, as they knew he was inside but he would not open the door.

    So now none of us have a clue why this hasn't been done. Even police keep expecting a call with a N2 order. Nope.

    I am trying to rationalize this as that perhaps for reasons unknown to us, my doctor knows what he's doing??? But I also know that he is a mandatory police reporter under law since he's a doctor. If made aware someone is a danger to others, he MUST act. Even harder for me to accept, is that he's me and the kids doctor for 18 years now. If something happens and this N2 was not called in, say this guy somehow harms one of us. Actually anybody on our road, a stranger on the street, ANYONE. If that happens and this doctor has NOT acted, he can be sued within an inch of his life for ignoring a serious threat and his choice to not act therefore enabled this man to cause harm.

    I am going to give benefit of the doubt that there is something I don't know that is causing this to not have happened yet. If Monday comes and goes, knowing my doctor is in his office and still nothing happens, I intend on Tuesday to phone and alert his receptionist that the kids and I no longer will be on their patient load and that should something happen to my family, that I will take legal action against the doctor for not following the laws in place that he can use to protect us and others from a obviously dangerous man.

    The one police officer at one point was so angry at laws. That police must walk away, leave this man walk around and be a danger, and they are powerless to enforce a mandatory hospitalization. He was frustrated that only a doctor can order a psychiatric stay without consent of the patient. Some people have NO doctor to do so. Police should be able to do SOMETHING when they KNOW someone is dangerous. It is their job to protect the public yet they have their hands tied and have to knowingly allow someone like this man to live right behind my house. They know that even if somethign happens and 911 is called, any manner of horrible things can happen before a police car can arrive. too little too late. And the police have no power to step in and keep him away from her. Until his eviction, he has "rights" to be at his home he rents.

    if this escalates, we plan to pack some things, pack up our cat, and take difficult child along and leave the house. go stay a couple hours away at a friends cabin until he is no longer on the road.

    I am so frustrated and hurt that innocent people (my family, my road, strangers even) are at risk right now, and anything can happen with this guy. People know. the right people. The police. Court. Doctor. And yet there he is, right behind us.

    I hope the doctor has a legit reason for a delay and on Monday enforces his responsability to protect people from a dangerous patient. I simply need to feel safer. I also can't handle the anger building that we are powerless and those with power are doing nothing. Probably out golfing with buddies, enjoying the summer day with his family and children, maybe enjoying their yard and having a bbq like normally happens here on weekends. While we sit feeling like a trapped hunted family of animals. I guess its a good analogy. We kind of feel thrown to the wolves (or in our case, WOLF singular)
  6. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    wow! I don't know what else to say. I hope they get him picked up soon. I'm sending good thoughts your way.
  7. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    My goodness, I had to read that twice just to believe what I was reading! Let me preface this by saying I'm a pacifist who does not believe in guns.

    You should get a gun and a carry permit and keep it loaded and with you at all times. Go to the firing range and learn to shoot it.

    If you can't do that, an aluminum baseball bat is light and easy to carry. Don't be afraid to use it.

    Why is this guy not in jail? Because it would make the cops look bad for putting your S/O in the drunk tank and doing nothing to the nut-job if he's such a bada-- that he shouldn't be out on the streets? I'd be looking for a lawyer to handle the police department right now. They won't do anything to this guy if you and your neighbors are the only ones to suffer. Make it their problem.
  8. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    Thank you muttmeister.

    We have no guns. But I have bear spray with me. Keep phone with me at all times. S/O is a machinist and has many parts here made of solid steel. Never considered them as protection before this. But we've each found a part that fits in our hands comfortably and could be used to help protect ourselves.

    Police made it clear that if this guy gets close to us somehow and is harming us or about to harm us, we can use whatever measure it takes to stop him. We can use whatever force or means needed to stop the threat, but nothing beyond.

    in other words, do anything to keep safe, but once he can't hurt us, say we knocked him out cold or something, we must stop and call for police. We can't turn vigilante and wildly beat him as he did to my S/O.

    They told us if it was THEM they'd stash knives in easy to reach places as well, invisible to others but known by us. I can't do that. Stupid huh? I could shoot someone if needed to protect my family, I'm kind of glad I don't own a gun or know how to use one. But I can't picture living in my own home with knives stashed everywhere. the thought of using one to protect myself doesn't offend me. But I somehow know I could never use a knife on someone.
  9. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    Witz, there are charges pending. EVERYONE gets bail in this ridiculous province, unless its murder etc. Despite his history of police involvement and hospitalizations etc. The theory is that the law protects me and my family by inserting a clause in his bail papers that in order to have bail he must not be near us or contact us in any way. Yeah. A paper is going to stop this lunatic??? Our laws stink.

    Even nuttier, we dont' have bail bondsmen here like in the U.S. Most times no actual money has to be posted at all. Here people get granted bail and it merely requires they sign a promise to appear type form that is their gaurantee to appear in court when required for hearings and follow any conditions (like staying away from us). If he violates his conditions, he can then be revoked his bail. But often even when THAT happens, they get believe it or not, most often ANOTHER bail hearing after a few days in jail, and another chance to get out on bail!! All gauranteed by a criminals SIGNATURE. Basically, a psychopaths WORD that they will behave and come back for court and commit no more crimes.

    He has stayed away from us since picked up by police and then release on pending charges etc. He has made threats to us via other people but he is GOOD. He says it in a way even police know its a threat. But he doesn't say for example "I'm going to commit (insert crime) against Melissa" or whatever. He says it so we all knwo his meaning but it isn't blatantly stated. Therefore police hands are tied because it isn't a properly worded actual obvious threat of harm. Fun laws huh???

    I do know police know now they messed up. to some degree I realize they will be lawering up and working to protect themselves in case we sue. At the same time, they are bending backwards SINCE this to do all they can to help, including visits to his door (one officer said it was like talking to someone out of the movie Pulp Fiction), legal advice on evictions, serving him notices to not trespass, warning him with some brutal language to stay away and just move out and move on mentally from anyone on our road etc. They must know legally they are at risk right now and any further mistakes on their part only bring more risk to their department. I do believe it when we've been told by several different officers this week that any call to our road will be considered top of list of any calls they have at that time and that they'll be arriving with intent to be potentially dealing with him out of control, violent, and to treat it as a very serious call if one comes in. Maybe its simply to cover their butts legally. That's fine by me so long as they FOLLOW THROUGH if it comes to that and something more occurs.
  10. Andy

    Andy Active Member

    Our state used to have a Police Officer's Emergency Hold Order where the police could admit him for a 72 hour hold at the nearest state hospital for assessments, ect. I have not worked with the Mental Health Division for a long time. However, I am sure there is still a Physcian's 72 hour hold which an ER doctor can sign if the Police do not have that option.

    I am curious to know if the police officers took him to an ER for an emergency evaluation. That would have started the 72 hour hold and whatever the committment process is. I also know that holds can be longer than 72 hours. They can last for several days until the commitment hearing.

    I work in the Chemical Dependency division of our State's treatment centers (the divisions were seperated several years ago). We do get Judicial Hold Orders from time to time but I don't work directly with that process so do not know the criteria. However, if there are hold orders out there for Chemical Dependency situations, I am sure they still use them for Mental Health situations. Commitment hearings can be set ASAP to assure the safety of the community. in my opinion, he should be sitting in a psychiatric hospital on a hold awaiting commitment hearing to allow the state to keep him in the hospital for a very long time.

    Ooops - see now you are in Canada - different laws - However, couldn't an ER doctor still be used to make this N2 call?
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2009
  11. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    The way it works here is the therapist, psychiatrist, (Including a crisis center), can have police pick-up on a tdo (temporary detention order) which is the 24-72 hour hold (I'm not sure which is in effect right now). The tdo is signed/authorized by either a judge or a magistrate but is issued easily and quickly (within a couple of hours) upon recommendation of the mental helath prof. Then, either the person is released, willingly signs to stay admitted, or there is a commitment hearing. If the holding facility psychiatrist has determined that the patient needs to stay in for the safety of themselves or others, they are committed for a period of time and another hearing is held at the end of that time unless released by the facility due to change in status. I'm under the impression that most states work like this because it ties back into the mandated reporting status of a therapist/psychiatrist.
  12. house of cards

    house of cards New Member

    Prayers are being said, I'm so sorry this is happening to your family. Any chance you can borrow a large dog?? I'd be afraid any weapon could be taken from me and used against me but I probably would still want something. Praying for angels to watch over you all and husband to heal well and fast. So scary.
  13. mrscatinthehat

    mrscatinthehat Seussical

    Sending good thoughts and prayers out for your family. I can not imagine what you are facing.

  14. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    This is horrific!! I will pray and rattle beads and anything else I can do! First and foremost to make sure that your SO hels up with no permanent or long-lasting effects.

    I am so sorry. I cannot believe this was allowed to happen!

  15. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Oh my Heavens!! I am glad that your SO is not dead, and I am praying as I read and type that he is not permanently damaged!! I hope the brain injury heals and does not cause any permanent damage!

    There is no way to know why this man is fixated on you and obsessed with getting SO out of your life and himself into your life. He is clearly psychotic. Can you schedule an appointment with the family doctor and take in SO (a double appointment squeezed in by the receptionist so he gets NO LUNCH BREAK would be worth a small bribe to the receptionist, in my opinion) so that he can see the damage and then INSIST he call that the guy is a danger. If you can afford it, book an appointment a day until he calls just to get you to leave him alone, might be well worth it. If he does NOT call, since the man is a CLEAR and PRESENT danger, file charges with the medical board after you see the doctor.

    As for bail, I cannot imagine why laws were created to shelter people like this. But they are. ALL over the world.

    Carry your steel pieces, or get SO to make an aluminum version so you can get a better swing - it may be easier iwth the MS flare. But given the adrenaline that just seeing this man may produce in you, you may not need the lighter item. Just make the first swing count!

    I can only imagine your terror. I think maybe finding some guided meditation online might be helpful. It might help you get a break from the terror. I am glad that difficult child was old enough to understand to lock up and protect your daughter. Sending daughter to her dad was good thinking, even though I know you miss her like crazy. Maybe difficult child can turn some of his difficult child gifts into thinking up ways to booby trap your yard? NOT seriously, but imagining how he could help might empower him in this terrifying situation.

    I cannot fathom how the cops could believe this lunatic and haul SO off to the drunk tank! Get a lawyer because until you have legal protection they are NOT going to do anything. They will be afraid to admit they made a mistake and will be worried that the lunatic will use their actions for his defense. After all, the cops thought SO was the problem and took him away, so how could the lunatic be the problem?? Be prepared for this defense. Twisted minds often have advantages because they lie with-o guilt.

    Does SO have a neurologist to keep an eye on him in case things don't heal? I think you should sue the creep if the cops don't pick him up. Keep records of anything you pay for in the way of home protection, increased costs because you can't use the house and have to all travel as a group, etc... REcord everything you can think of. Then take whatever legal advice you can get and sue this guy and the cops.

    PLEASE take care of yourself and SO. Do whatever you have to to work off the adrenaline. If you can stretch and do mild exercises, or whatever you can, inside it will go a long way to helping. ANY physical activity can help.

    PLEASE keep a daily log of how SO is feeling, and records of any tests they do so that you can identify problems EARLY. As with anything else, early intervention is best. A diary of SO's moods, any physical symptoms, if he eats too much, or stops eating, all of that can be helpful.

    You are in my prayers, and I will drop a note in our church's prayer box (just for prayers for my friend in Canada, that is all - nothing specific). Many gentle hugs.

    Don't be afraid to tell the doctor if you need anxiety medications and/or pain medications to help you through this. Muscle relaxers may help also (thinking of all those tense muscles that happen with anxiety). Maybe you and SO can alternate giving each other massages. It might also help to give difficult child a massage.

    Stay as safe as possible. I wish you could have a gun (does Canada permit you to have a gun for home defense? Here in OK they are almost (not quite, but almost) required. If you can legally have a gun, get one. You KNOW this nut will have one.
  16. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    Why hasn't he been locked up for attempted murder? This was a planned out murder. That is crazy.
  17. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    Sending prayers that you, your family & your neighbors stay safe. Can you ask the police to patrol the street more often? Make sure you give permission for them to enter your property if they see anything suspicious.
  18. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Sending cyber hugs and supportive thoughts. I'm so sorry that you all are in such a horrible position. DDD
  19. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    Thank you all for your well wishes and thoughts etc.

    To just try to address everyones stuff all together, I'll try to get it all in this post if I can remember it.

    I agree its this way around the world. We have rights that we don't want to lose, yet in doing so for ourselves, everyone has those same rights, even psychotic dangerous people. That is how we see tragedies all the time in the news that could have been avoided because the danger was known and visible but the freedom of rights for that person or the flawed legal system, impairs those with power's ability to do anything.

    I am increasingly upset that the doctor, who can in a single short phone call, have this guy locked up for psychiatric reasons. Here it is a inital 72 hour hold if this doctor calls police and requests the guy picked up and hospitalized. After that, the psychiatrist treating the person in hospital have a procedure every so many days after that 72 hours that requires they evaluate again and if the person is still considered a threat to themselves or others, they are held and reviewed so many days later (I think its 5 days apart, if I recall right from when I had to do this to my mom who is bipolar and was a danger to herself. She ended not being released for over 6 weeks since thats how long it was until the psychiatric doctor was assured she was no longer a risk to herself)

    I cannot figure out why this wasn't done. I am reconsidering the wait to Tuesday idea to call the docs office. I think I'll do so Monday morning as soon as they open. I cannot at all afford a lawyer regarding the police mess up, nor the nutcase. I can however get free consultations at the local free legal clinic and will do so as soon as i can get an appointment to see them. Maybe they can help or suggest what I can do.

    We are able to take S/O to ER, regular docs, a neuro or eye specialist etc with no worries. In Canada we have universal health care and we do not get bills for any docs or specialists appointments, tests (not even big pricey ones like MRI and CT scans etc). We also, despite him being laid off right now, have his company group benefits for any medications, etc that he may get if his eye doesn't heal right. We will be seeing his doctor again this coming week, but at any time if we think something is urgent or his eye is worsening, we can be at the ER in under 5 minutes by taxi as its very nearby.

    Regarding charges against this guy, initially due to my S/O having no memory of anything at all, police had no clue what had happened. Even when contacted, we didnt' have pieces of the puzzle, including zero knowledge of the first attack in my yard. The second one was witnessed by myself and this couple we are just getting to know and by the time it escalated, the noise had drawn other neighbours attention. Initially police didn't have any reason to assume it was intended, premeditated etc. It appeared that he had lost his marbles for a bit, probably due to excessive drinking that night, he was very intoxicated. So it was treated serious but not for the true threat it was etc. So bail was granted etc.

    It was quite a while before we learned from the new neighbour we didn't know before this, that she'd witnessed this in the front yard and learned about the first attack. We were so stunned to hear this at all. It is what made us wonder to motive, intent, and to start questioning our future safety and to wonder why us? Was it planned? etc

    This lead us to talking to others on our street and even today new information is coming together to give us the total picture of the past 4 years of scheming and obsession and insight into the insanity of this guys thinking. Each new development and piece to the mystery, brings us closer to seeing just how much planning he used, patience, that it goes back to pretty much when he moved in all those years ago etc. The police are updated or check up with us for new details as days go by, while they continue investigation and try to figure out what they can charge him with in total. I do believe it will come to him having more and much more severe, charges laid.

    We've in depth discussed with several officers and a staff seargant, how to keep us safe while he is still under this roof. They must build a proper case before they lay more charges, or risk the charges being dropped later and missing the chance to nail him. Without a solid case for a judge, should they charges too early, when they arrest him he AGAIN gets a bail hearing. They have to be able to convince a judge that bail is not acceptable. A difficult thing in this country where bail is handed out to psychos all the time. Its even worse in this town. We have a major psychiatric hospital servicing the entire northern part of the province, they even air ambulance in patients from up to 12 hours away. There are no other psychiatric hospitals in that depth of a radius, only temporary beds in regular hospitals. Nothing set up for really mentally ill people with longer term needs. They all get shipped here. Because of this, this town has alot of services for mentally ill people that most places don't have. Many patients after a few times shipped here, end up staying here and making this town their home because of access to doctors and special services etc. It is a contentous issue for majority of town residents, as we have an abnormal crime level, and we have a absurdly disproportionate level of severely mentally ill people here than most other places. I have for years been looking to move away again. This is my hometown but despite its natural beauty and wonderful things I love about it, you cannot go anywhere without seeing many very mentally ill patients. It is the norm, not the exception. Police become jaded I think, they respond to so many calls from mentally ill people that freak others out without really being a true threat, but who do frighten people. I think police burn out very quickly in this town. With so much mental illness comes a high level of crime but also addictions to drugs, alcohol etc. Our police force is much larger here than most places with the same population rate.

    Until police can ensure this guy does NOT get bail, by having a rock solid case against bail to a judge, they are working with us to do everything we can to NOT give him cause to go into another rage (along with helping us try to be safe etc). Since they cannot force him to leave this property, only the owner via eviction can do so, if there is a chance he gets bailed out on new charges, that means he would in theory be released very angry again and even more fixated on revenge to me etc. I totally agree that until he's no longer right behind us, we are walking a very fine line with how to proceed. Police have been very open that they would lay a bunch of new charges days ago if we could KNOW that the judge would not grant bail. They have thought, as have we, that the doctor would have him hospitalized and while that bought us some time to feel safe and for the owner to complete the eviction process, the case could be made solid enough to have a judge deny bail and to prove serious charges that would hold up under a trial.

    Again, this at this point, is in that docs hands. He can ensure no harm comes to us or anybody else while police continue piecing a case together. I wish the real world was like made for tv crime shows where police can whip a case together in a instant and so forth, but real life is how it is. A flawed system that often leads to tragedies we all cringe about when all over the news.

    As for right this moment, we are all 3 of us at home. We're trying to stay calm and relax and just watch movies the rest of the evening. We have however been called by a neighbour to be told this guy is outside in his yard drinking and has been for several hours. So our guard is up even more knowing he's on a drinking binge right now. I will pray he drinks himself into passing out or not being able to function. That too is common with him.

    As I said already, thank you all for sending the good thoughts. Special thank you for the special intentions card mentioned from church. That means alot.

    Here's to hoping for a quiet night, where we can watch a movie, snuggle, try to put this aside and feel normal for a bit at least. And to a good peaceful nights sleep and no drama or anything worse than drama!!!!
  20. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I don't even know what to say. Many hugs and prayers going out to you and your family.