NEW HERE-15 YR OLD DAUGHTER ODD

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by dvicario, Jul 18, 2007.

  1. dvicario

    dvicario New Member

    HI, MY NAME IS DEANNA, I AM MARRIED WITH 3 KIDS. AGES 18, 15 AND 6.

    THE FIRST AND LAST CHILD ARE DOING WELL. MY MIDDLE ONE, NOT SO WELL. SHE WAS ALWAYS VERY QUIRKY, THEN AT THE AGE OF 12, CHANGED OVERNIGHT. I THOUGHT IT WAS DRUGS.HER SYSTEM WAS CLEAN.

    AFTER 3 YEARS OF THERAPY, AND SCHOOL EVALUATIONS, SHE IS diagnosis ODD. THE SCHOOL PSYCHIATRIST DETERMINED SHE HAS AN EMOTIONAL DISORDER.SHE HAS EMOTIONAL SUPPORT AT SCHOOL AS WELL AS ACADEMIC SUPPORT. NO MORE COUNSLERS BECAUSE I WAS SPENDING LOADS OF MONEY TO SIT IN A ROOM WHERE SHE WOULDNT TALK. NOTHING CHANGED.

    THE REASON I CAME TO THIS SITE IS THAT I HAVE COME TO ACCEPT THAT ALL I CAN DO IS LOVE HER, BE THERE, OFFER SUPPORT AND **HOPE FOR THE BEST**

    ALL OF MY EFFORTS, DOCTORS, COUNSELORS, PUNISHMENTS, TACTICS, PLANS, CHANGES, LECTURES, TALKS ALL DID NOTHING. BOTTOM LINE.......SHE DOES WHAT SHE WANTS. LAST NIGHT FOR THE FIRST TIME, SHE CAME HOME BOMBED. THIS MORNINGS TALK HAD ZERO EFFECT ON HER.

    SHE IS GROUNDED, BUT SHE TOLD ME THAT IT WILL HAVE ZERO EFFECT ON HER. THAT NOTHING I DO OR SAY CAN "TOUCH" HER.

    I AM TRYING MY BEST. BUT ITS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. IN OTHER WORDS...IT DOESNT WORK. I AM GIVING IT TO GOD. I WILL CONTINUE TO OFFER HELP AND SUPPORT. BUT I WONT MAKE MYSELF SICK OVER THIS ANYMORE. OH....I AM ALSO BATTLING MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS. JUS THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG. THANKS FOR LISTENING. DEANNA
     
  2. AllStressedOut

    AllStressedOut New Member

    I'm sorry for what you're going through. My youngest boy has been diagnosed ODD. I haven't been able to let go yet. I still think if I keep trying and keep disciplining that eventually he'll get it. I go back and forth between whether I'm doing the right thing or just making things worse for myself and them. I wish I could offer advice, but I'm in the same boat. I hope knowing there is someone else out there going through it too, helps. I'm glad you found the board. I'm sure many will be along shortly to offer support.
     
  3. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I know the feelings you are having and detaching is effective to some extent. But, if your daughter is coming home bombed - you have to intervene. It is illegal and not safe.

    I suggest you look into a program through the court system called PINS - Parent in Need of Support.
    It is possible they will put you and your daughter into the 'system' under their guidance. Much different then if she committed a crime. The judge is there to intervene - get her to comply with house rules, sets curfews, etc.
    It will also be helpful if she ever ends up in the system due to committing a crime, you will already have a trail of her being defiant and you trying your best to make it better.
     
  4. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Welcome, Deanna. Sorry you're having such a rough time.

    The diagnosis - given all you say, I think it's likely there is more to the picture. The trouble is, how can you find out when she is so uncooperative?

    One STRONG recommendation - don't 'lay down the law' if you can't enforce it. It is better to not even go there, than to set yourself up for failure there. You need to find another way.

    I know she's already 15 but she IS still a kid and you do still have some options. I'm not from your area so I know nothing of PINS - sounds good, check it out.

    Also check out (from the library, if you're unsure, or broke for the moment) Ross Greene's "The Explosive Child". There is also some discussion of this book on the Early Childhood forum, although that discussion is far more specific to much younger children. The book, however, is about how to manage kids of all ages for whom the usual methods not only don't work, they make things worse.

    As for the MS - if you've only recently been diagnosed then you have a lot on your plate emotionally. If you can afford it (time, money and energy), get yourself to a counsellor because YOU need to sort out your own issues so you can best help your daughter. YOU need to build back your own innre strength. The MS will actually speed this up, once you get past the initial reactions.
    I'm speaking from experience - while I've not been formally diagnosis'ed with MS, it's so close as makes no never mind. I'm dealing with a lot of the same physical stuff and have been for 23 years. And yes, it is hard especially at first. But then you discover your own adaptability and learn that with what you CAN do, you can be very powerful, more than people expect.

    If this hasn't affected your speech (hasn't affected mine, except my voice gets hoarse if I talk too long) then use the telephone. They can't see you over the phone, so practice making your voice sound confident and authoritative.

    If your voice IS affected, use the computer and write letters, emails etc. Make sure you check over what you write for accuracy - it makes you look like someone to be reckoned with (like you have your own personal secretary, you're not just trying to manage on your own). Don't use all caps except for individual word emphasis - it looks like you're shouting. If your hands are tiring too fast and switching between SHIFT keys & back is just too tiring, then use all lower case. I remember an author who used to do this - she insisted she hated upper case and had them all chiselled off her typewriter. Her name was Helene Hannff. She wrote "84 Charing Cross Rd" (the publisher put the caps back in the title!) which was based on the friendship she built up between herself and a London bookstore owner. It was made into a movie with Ann Bancroft and Anthony Hopkins.
    Helene Hannff's refusal to use caps simply made her seem a fascinating eccentric, at worst. It certainly worked for her.

    Sorry if this seems to be nitpicking, but there are several reasons I mention this -

    1) Success in the small details can really boost your confidence, which I suspect isn't in good shape right now;

    2) With a daughter like you've got at the moment, you need to become a Warrior Mum and this often involves some serious communication with educators, various officials etc. If you can sound strong in these, you will cope better in yourself and also in your advocacy for your daughter.

    When your body is feeling weak and unreliable, always remember you can rely on your mind.

    Keep us posted on how you get on.

    Marg
     
  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi there. I have a thought for you. You say your daughter is "quirky." Has she ever had a neuropsychologist evaluation? Quirky kids are often kids who have Asperger's Syndrome. They are VERY quirky. I'd want to check it out, and NeuroPsychs do intensive evaluations, unlike any other professionals. It's worth a try. ODD rarely stands alone, so there is likely more going on. I'm going to post a few links that you can browse:

    http://www.aspergersyndrome.org/

    http://www.childbrain.com/pddq6.shtml (this is an online test)
     
  6. dvicario

    dvicario New Member

    I didnt mean to appear as if I was shouting. I am so used to writing in caps it became a habit.

    I guess the point I was trying to make is that I have an acceptance for these ongoing issues now. Before, I was making myself literally sick, physically and mentally with all the problems with my daughter.

    I am more at peace now with acceptance. It doesnt mean I have given up on her, heavens no, I have just come to a place where I can accept that she is not a typical child. She is different.

    Maybe one day this will be an asset. As far as the drinking episode. That was the first time that happened, hopefully the last.

    I have been through thousands of dollars of therapy. I dont care who you go to....it does no good if the child wont talk. However she does talk to her special education teacher, which is good.

    Thanks for all the replies. Deanna
     
  7. AllStressedOut

    AllStressedOut New Member

    I agree with you, if she won't talk, it is not going to help.

    I hope someday I get to the point of understanding that you're at. I'm not there yet I don't think. I try to be, but I still feel like I can fix it. I feel like I'm mom and I should be able to make it better. Its just so hard to let go of that, ya know?
     
  8. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Just popping in to add my welcome. Glad you found us-this truly is a soft place to land.
     
  9. Kali

    Kali New Member

    Just wanted to add a welcome too. I'm fairly new here too, or rather re-found this place again.

    My uncle has MS, I see you are recently diagnosis'd. My Uncle was diagnosis'd years ago and still does really well, I will hope the same for you.
     
  10. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Here's hoping, with you, that one heavy bout was enough to put her off. BF2 got plastered at difficult child 1's girlfriend's party (we were there also) and threw up in the car on the way home. It all went into a plastic bag of difficult child 1's, so the content went straight into a bucket with lots of water. Next morning we emptied out the bucket and refilled it. You could still taste the rum - and I don't think he will ever touch rum again!

    You mentioned "a place of acceptance" - I know what you mean. You will need it, so you can deal with the bits you CAN deal with. It does make it easier, though, because you have your place to help you cope.

    Can you talk to her at all in calmer moments? Or is it likely to trigger oppositional behaviour to do so?

    It really is so hard when they're like this.

    I'm glad your hands are better than I had thought - I have a friend whose work I re-type, who uses all caps. I know what her hands are like (not MS - it's a lifelong peripheral neuropathy, in her case) and I was worried you had similar problems. I wish my friend would use lower case! But she's got through life doing things her way with everybody else having to fit in, so I guess I'll have to keep plodding through the way I have been...

    Marg
     
  11. Shar

    Shar New Member

    Deanna: first, this sight has done wonders for my sense of parenting. You will get advise from every perspective and each and every person has been helpful to me.

    My 13 year old son is in a similar boat. I always thought he had ODD (as one of the many therapists diagnosis'd him) but he just began medication for ADHD (concerta). I pray it will work. He, too, is defiant and thinks he is in charge. There have been so many times I want to say "do what you want, but don't call me when you're in jail". I usually want to say this when he tells me he hates me and will go over to his friend's house who has been forbidden because he smokes and hurts (physically) other kids.

    Parenting is so difficult and I know, first hand, the problems you are experiencing. I have not totally given up on my son, but there are times when I want to. I pray so much that God will make me aware of what my son is doing so I know when to intervene.

    I, too, have set limits but they are constantly argued about. He does not understand; do any of them?

    Good luck and keep praying. Sharon
     
  12. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    There is alot to be said for finding peace in one's chaotic life. It does wonders for everyone around you - doesn't it?

    I hope she does not do the drinking thing again.
     
  13. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    Deanna, welcome. I'm glad you found us.

    I will repeat what Midwest Mom said: ODD rarely stands alone. It is generally a symptom of an underlying disorder rather than a diagnosis unto itself. When the underlying disorder is identified and treated, the ODD behaviors typically subside.

    Has your difficult child ever been on medications? Is she on them now? Her recent drinking episode could be an attempt to self-medicate the bad feelings she has about herself.

    We're not doctors and can't diagnosis over the internet, but to my untrained ear, it sounds as if your difficult child has a mood issue (anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, for example). Has she ever been evaluated by a child psychiatrist and/or neuropsychologist? These are the professionals who could get at what's really going on (rather than a regular old counselor or school officials, who typically focuses on behavior instead of the underlying cause behind the behavior -- I know, a major generalization, but our experience over the years).

    Again, welcome and good luck.
     
  14. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    Hi! We've just started the neuropsyche (had our 1st visit yesterday) and I think you need to get one done. As it stands, you really have nothing to lose. It is true that ODD rarely "stands alone", and since you used the term quirky, you may have an Asbie (Asbergers Syndrome) kid on your hands. Take a look at the links of OASIS (I think it's listed as Asbergers Syndrome if you google it. They give a pretty deep description of the syndrome.

    Being at peace with things is a great step and we've often put a lot of things in Gods hands, but that doesn't prep you for the inevitable "next episode" that you might foresee if you keep your eyes peeled.

    Try the Explosive Child, it's like he wrote the book while sitting in your living room. I truly enjoyed so many of the tactics that so many parents resorted to before they saw him as patients. Desperation breeds invention!! Also, it gives great insight as to how your difficult child "sees" the world.

    I'm curious as to who diagnosis'd your difficult child. Quite often Asbergers is lumped in with ADHD and ODD so it could help to be up on the appropriate diagnosis. In a neuropsyche evaluation., they'll consider that uncooperative nature while doing this whole thing.

    Please keep in mind that almost all of these kids really really want to do the right thing, something just gets messed up in the process!!!

    Beth
     
  15. lynnp

    lynnp New Member

    Hi and welcome. We are just starting to deal with professionals and it is a very challenging thing. The one thing that helps to save my sanity is natural consequences. You make a bad decision...I'm not going bail you out. I swear he'll be 45 before he gets his license if I have anything to do with it. Good luck, I'm sorry you're going through this.
     
  16. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    When I was first told about it I too thought it was spelled Asberger's, but it's got a "p", not a "b", it's Asperger's Syndrome. You'll get more hits if you've got the spelling right (as I found out, way back when). It's one form of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) (Pervasive Developmental Disorder) and there are a lot of good references. There is a good Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) questionnaire (not intended as a diagnostic, but still useful) on http://www.childbrain.com. Online, if you see a link that also mentions Tony Attwood, chances are it will be helpful, positive and informative.

    But it could be a number of possible issues, not just Asperger's. Someone suggested mood disorder - always worth considering. But as you said, HOW do you consider it when she refuses to talk to therapists? Or would she be more cooperative with an assessment?

    Marg
     
  17. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    My son (difficult child 1) is as oppositional as they come. He refused to talk to his psychiatrist for six months. But the psychiatrist stuck with it and engaged him with games and other fun stuff. We were also able to get a very reliable neuropsychological evaluation (10 hours of testing) with a good professional who took the time to engage my son. It has been our experience that it really does tkae the right professional.
     
  18. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    Hi! Marg: thanks for the spelling correction!!! :smile:

    These are the things that happen when you're half asleep 90% of the time!!!

    Hope all's well!

    Beth
     
  19. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I don't think your daughter has ODD. in my humble opinion I believe this is why ODD is so misunderstood. Many youths your daughter's age begin acting out, experimenting with alcohol or drugs, becoming defiant with authority, exhibiting ODD behaviors. The difference is for most of those kids it is just a stage. Of course the drinking can become very serious, indeed I consider it serious at any age, but most adolescents who suddenly become defiant are not truly ODD.

    I have seen many many young people in middle and high school over the years that begin experimenting with alcohol and/or drugs and try to become idepenednt int he wrong ways. Most of them go on to college or get a job and do just fine.

    The difference between them and say our difficult child is that she was diagnosed with ODD at age 7, although we knew she had it long before. She was always defiant, always angry, always different. We spent thousands of dollars on therapies and medications to get her on the right path. She went throught he court system and was brought up on charges several times and spent a weekend in detention. For the most part she is doing very very well now, but we know that at any time she can backtrack. Her ODD behavior was not just a stage for her, she was born with it and she most likely will always have it, although hopefully she is learning better coping methods. We have friends whose teens are drinking, hanging out all hours of the night, partying, driving under the influence, using drugs. The difference between tham and our daughter is great. They will most probably turn out OK, just as most teens do.

    Our neighbor has a daughter the same age as ours and she is always out drinking and getting into trouble. I asked my husband why her parents weren't more worried, they are good people just like us. He reminded me the difference waas that our daughter had ODD.

    I'm not making light of your daughter's behavior. Believe me I am very concerned about the drinking and would watch very carefully for evidence of drug use. I took my daughter for drug testing anytime I suspected use. But if your daughter just suddently began acting this way, it is most likely ODD behavior, not ODD the disorder.

    Nancy
     
  20. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    I just wanted to add my welcome. I'm glad you've found us. :salute:
     
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