New here- 7 y/o son with ADHD/ODD, tearing us apart.

[BusynMember]

Depending on where you live you may or may not be allowed public school services if your child goes to private school (yes, I think they are useful). In Wisconsin, where I live, when my kids went to private school they did not qualify to get services from public schools. No IEP. No PT, Occupational Therapist (OT), Learning Disability (LD), nothing. We had to put them in a good public school to get those services. I know that in states like California, you can get services even if your child is in private school. Check out your state.

 

[Malika]

The truth is that my husband and I are not on the same page. (Duh- big problem.) Despite being told that bargaining, discussions, and the like are counterproductive with ODD kids, he continues these tactics. I am by no means perfect, and don't react in textbook form to my kid. Who does? I am at my wits end. I do not know what to do. The problem continues to grow and fester.

Can you say more about what you mean when you say that bargaining, discussions and the like are counterproductive with these children? How are you defining bargaining and discussions? Each child is so individual, of course. I and many others have found that if explanations are given to my son, he will more likely comply. Is that "discussion"?
I think... at the heart of these children is a real feeling of low self-esteem. The opposition and defiance masks this, of course, and they come across as arrogant and unbearably cocky. But the very opposite is true. I have begun to realise that my son really does see himself as "naughty" (perhaps even inherently bad?) and I am really taking EVERY opportunity to tell him that he is lovable, lovely, etc. Of course the ODD behaviour is anything and everything BUT lovely and so this is very hard to do sometimes. At the age of five, though, there is still so much sweetness and innocence going on.
How do break the negative cycle, I think you are perhaps facing that conundrum? Your son's behaviour is obnoxious, you obviously withdraw from him in some sense - it is completely natural - and he then becomes all the more obnoxious. How do you fit one on one time in with your son? I would imagine his relationship with his father is particularly important - do they get a chance to spend time alone together?
Just a few thoughts...

 

[fightingthetide]

Malika- Let me see if I can explain, my son will continually attempt to engage us in a power struggle. The topic is interchangeable. It doesn't matter how many ways I can try to convince him that the sky is blue, he is not going to admit it, and the fact that I merely engaged him in an argument has put us on equal footing. What I see happening is a continual engagement of an argument/fight/lecture after repeated bad behavior, with no real consistent consequences or rewards. Not that I/we haven't tried. From my understanding, all this is doing is re-inforcing the negative behavior because he is being given a lot of attention for negative behavior. We have been told by the professionals that he should be going into a time-out , spend the time there alone, and can get control of himself there in the prescribed time, then be done with it. Well, its not the way its being handled. And we have a train wreck on our hands. Typically, we are forcing him to his room, fighting, kicking and screaming, then there is a big blow up because he's woken my husband up (he works nights), and then he wants to physically fight and get out of his room some more, then my son gets lectured, etc for 20-25 mins or so. My sons room is sparse because of the furniture and toys he's ruined. His door is a mess because he's bashed it so many times. I do not know what to do. We have been told to ignore him when he is like this , not give it more attention. Your thoughts?

His Dad amazingly does a very good job of making sure he gets special attention. Actually, I think he hold a special place in Dad's heart. It's been tough for me, but he can be a very different boy one on one, and I, too, get the opportunity once in a while to see that. Lately though, it's as if he's not "reachable."

 

[soapbox]

The moment he walks out the school doors he's ready to do battle. Anybody else have this situation?

If you had ANY idea how common this is... you wouldn't be asking!

Just from our own experience - plus observation of others...
Most commonly, the child will either have additional hidden disorders/disabilities.
So, how do they handle school, then? It takes 200% of whatever they have in them, to try and make school "work". But they don't want to look bad in the eyes of their peers, so they push themselves beyond reason. Teachers do not see the effort, they only see the results. And then... he comes in the door at the end of the day, and he still has "half a day" left... but his mental, physical, emotional tanks are empty. He has nothing left to cope with ANYTHING.

For example?
You don't mention anything about motor skills, but even if this isn't obviously a problem, subtle fine motor skills issues can sabotage school really fast. So much time and effort in the early grades is... fine motor skills. Given that 50% of kids with ADHD also have Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD)... there's a fair chance that motor skills MAY be part of the problem. If he hasn't had a detailed Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation for motor skills and sensory integration... he needs it. Occupational Therapist (OT) cannot diagnosis Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD) (or anything else for that matter), so you may not end up with the diagnosis, but the Occupational Therapist (OT) has therapies that help, and the Occupational Therapist (OT) report can be part of the picture in getting appropriate help (accommodations and intervantions) at school.

Example 2:
There is an interesting overlap between ADHD and APDs. They produce extremely similar symptoms... the inattention, restlessness, not paying attention to detail, and so on... BUT... auditory processing disorders (there are several) mean that the kid is not "getting the message". It could be language processing (making sense of spoken language), but it could be something more subtle like "auditory figure ground", where the person hears normally, and processes language normally, but cannot filter out background noise... so, one-on-one is fantastic, but gets totally lost in the average (i.e. noisy) classroom. The amount of mental effort required to just make out what the words are that are being spoken, is so huge that it can become difficult to actually process what is being said. If you can't follow what is going in, its really hard to sit still, pay attention, etc. Now, to complicate things... its not unusual for APDs to be comorbid with ADHD...! There are interventions and accommodations that help a LOT with this.

That ODD diagnosis? I'm another one that treats it like a "placeholder". If they don't have any other answers, at least it acknowledges the problem. But it offers NO help, no guidance, no understanding.

I think you need to dig deeper.

by the way - how noisy is your home? TV/radio on all the time? noisy computer games going on? If Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) is part of his problem, the home atmosphere could be a contributing factor.

 

[Malika]

It doesn't matter how many ways I can try to convince him that the sky is blue, he is not going to admit it, and the fact that I merely engaged him in an argument has put us on equal footing. What I see happening is a continual engagement of an argument/fight/lecture after repeated bad behavior, with no real consistent consequences or rewards. Not that I/we haven't tried. From my understanding, all this is doing is re-inforcing the negative behavior because he is being given a lot of attention for negative behavior. We have been told by the professionals that he should be going into a time-out , spend the time there alone, and can get control of himself there in the prescribed time, then be done with it. Well, its not the way its being handled. And we have a train wreck on our hands. Typically, we are forcing him to his room, fighting, kicking and screaming, then there is a big blow up because he's woken my husband up (he works nights), and then he wants to physically fight and get out of his room some more, then my son gets lectured, etc for 20-25 mins or so. My sons room is sparse because of the furniture and toys he's ruined. His door is a mess because he's bashed it so many times. I do not know what to do. We have been told to ignore him when he is like this , not give it more attention. Your thoughts?

Oh I understand... Can really see the dynamic you are talking about. I think in a way it's easier with just one difficult child - a difficult child with siblings poses its own problems... Anyway, you obviously have to deal with that situation as it is!
I think... my two cents' worth... is that you go really radical and stop the time outs if they are leading to this kind of fiasco each time. This is a difficult decision because you are working with doctors and this is apparently what they are suggesting - do discuss the issue with them? But I think time outs with a kid who reacts like this are counterproductive. I tried doing time outs with my son when he was about three or four, with the result you describe - raging, kicking the door, smashing things... I didn't continue.
I just don't know the complete answer - alas! Otherwise I wouldn't be coming here but would be writing a best-seller about how to deal with this kind of problem All I can do is share my own experience. My son definitely has the oppositional and defiant streak - he is also, as you say about your boy, very sweet. I have often been surprised to realise that in fact he wants to please me and be loved and accepted. So the oppositional behaviour is not really volitional. He is also not really in command of anything, although it may seem as though he is. Getting angry with him, trying to lay down the law, makes him completely worse. As is no doubt the case for you. The whole trick for me seems to be - and I regularly fail in it, but keep coming back to it - is to find and maintain a warm and positive relationship with him. This way, things do not escalate into battles and actually he becomes quite compliant and eager to please (some of the time, anyway). The second I talk to him like an authority who expects him just to submit my will, he is in battle mode and will not let go until he "wins". Being the adult, I have the option to withdraw from all this and take the dialogue onto a different ground. I could say that it is not "right" that he cannot accept direction like other children, but then my life, our lives, just become so hellish. So I feel that taking the position of non-combat is basically just being kind to both of us.
If I speak to him in a bright, cheerful, warm tone of voice, with respect, expecting that he will behave well... he mostly does. Of course I am human and do not always feel like talking gently and kindly if he is hanging from the staircase jumping off or picking up the dog and manhandling her as part of some fireman game he is playing or...the myriad of things that happen. But I now know beyond a shadow of a doubt that his behaviour is linked to how I deal with him. To what degree is this true in your case?
I am so sorry you are facing all this. The tantrums and rages are so demoralising, I really know that. And it seems to go nowhere but just round and round, as you describe. So I think you have to find a way to break the circle. Hugs (if I may! )

 

[DDD]

Does he have neighbor friends or afterschool activities? If so, how does that go? With a little tongue in cheek, sometimes I think that if both parents get on the same page it doesn't even matter if it is the right page. Personally I tend to think that difficult child's recognize the difference in personality, methods etc. and are often driven to capitalize on the subtle break between parents...like a "mini" power struggle.

I strongly support N/P exams but I also have seen numerous cases where the difficult child child is capable of participating in discussions on "How Can We Make Our Family and Our Home A Better Place For All Of Us?"Most of the time, in my humble opinion, kids want to be happy and sometimes they actually (when calm, of course) can contribute to the peacekeeping methods. Has he ever suggested changes? Just curious. As someone else noted some kids need a quieter environment, a scheduled after school snack, an earlier bedtime etc. Most I have found absolutely need to know what's going to happen each day. Alot have had to eliminate sharing errands, for example, as a quick trip to the store can result in meltdowns. Many of us have had to set a pretty rigid schedule so the difficult child's didn't have to be anxious about simple stuff like "when is dinner?"

Have you begun to keep a journal yet? It's a pain in the neck, lol, but using a notebook and jotting down daily notes can often make a pattern more readable. It is also very helpful when you are seeking outside help to be able to show that difficult child has a pattern of exploding (for example) at bedtime? or right after school? or before dinner. It doesn't take too much time but I think that is a diagnostic tool not only for the professionals...but for the Mom. Living life often keeps us on the go and we just don't "see" that there is a pattern. Hugs DDD

 

[fightingthetide]

If you had ANY idea how common this is... you wouldn't be asking!

Yes, I suppose that I do have some understanding of this. Just need some validation that I'm not crazy, or causing this. I do have the intention of seeking a neuro psychiatric evaluation, already started researching two local children's hospitals, will start making calls tomorrow. And hopefully I can find answers to some of the other resources we may (or may not) need. Unfortunately, I don't feel like I am supported in aggressively seeking treatment for him. However, I am a very resourceful person when I want to be.

DDD-- good suggestion on the journal. Now, I'd have to execute some discipline of my own to make that work! He doesnt have a lot of neighborhood friends. Next door neighbor has grandkids, they are over more in summer, and play outside when weather is nicer. All our kids play together and it goes well. He does well with other kids, fights with siblings. However, I am loathe to bring kids home from school for "playdates" because of the home dynamic.

difficult child is not particular about schedule deviations. However, we maintain a fairly structured environment and schedule. So maybe that helps avoid that upset. I am a planner by nature, and my husband works three jobs at odd hours. So, schedule mastery is a must around here. It's not easy.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Unfortunately, I don't feel like I am supported in aggressively seeking treatment for him. However, I am a very resourceful person when I want to be.

This is very common, too. Most of us around here have been there done that!

Keep fighting... and keep coming back here for more ammo. Some of the long-term warrior moms around here have some GREAT ideas.

 

[Malika]

Oh well... That's just my take on it - may not be of any value to anyone else