new here ODD help please

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by maisies_mummy, Aug 27, 2007.

  1. maisies_mummy

    maisies_mummy New Member

    Hi, have posted on the general forum but will post here too.

    My 5 year old daughter is very difficult, and waiting to be accessed.

    She has most of the signs of ODD.

    -temper tantrums daily lasting anything from 5 mins to 2 hours
    -threatens to kill me kick my head in.
    -pulls faces and sticks her tounge out
    -swears in temper
    -hits kicks and punches in temper
    -is only like this to adults and not just me
    -tried to smash windows
    -eats like a baby
    -wets herself daily
    -blames outbursts on others
    -finds it funny if me and my husband end up argueing over her
    -very bright at school
    -has poor motor skills
    -can keep it together at nursery (2 hours) but not sure she will cope fulltime. HAs been rude to teachers and they noted she refuses to accept punishment.
    -has spat at me
    -refuses to do anything I ask
    -wont take medicine
    -is not hyperactive
    -causes big scenes when shopping
    -delays going out even if it is fun day for her
    -has started to do babyish things like emptying shampoos and toothpastes everywhere
    -and recently started stealing silly things.

    We are in England and it can take up to 6 months to get appointments. Also we are not as clues up on ODD over here, so struggleing to get anywhere fast. I am at my wits end! I have a 12 year old daughter who is like an angel, and a baby of 7 months. Any help suggestions on what else it could be or anything else I would be grateful.
  2. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    Hi and welcome. First some questions:

    How has her development been?
    Any health issues? (I'd see the pediatrician about the wetting soon)
    Does she frustrate easily or do a slow boil?
    Any peculiar habits or rituals in regard to food, clothing, activities?
    Does she do well academically?
    Any friends yet?
    Also, are there any family members with mental illness, neurological problems or substance abuse problems?
    When did you first notice something wasn't right?

    You'll probably want to get a copy of Ross Greene's The Explosive Child. This book will help you choose which battles to fight with your daughter as our kids tend not to respond to traditional parenting. There is also a post at the top of this forum which goes into some detail.
    Most, but not all of us, have had the experience that our child's ODD is linked to an underlying disorder or issue. My daughter had extremely bad allergies that affected her because she seldom felt well & she didn't sleep well. This seems to have fed her sensory problems and made her highly irritable and frustrated. While there may still be some underlying problems (she's kind of awkward, etc), she has improved dramatically since her underlying condition has been addressed. We had a physical condition to contend with and others have had mood disorders, other mental health issues or developmental delays to contend with.
  3. maisies_mummy

    maisies_mummy New Member

    Hi thank you for answering, I will answer your questions and I have a copy of the explosive child, which is helpful but trying to discover if this is ODD alone (unlikely) or what is causing her to behave like this.

    How has her development been?
    Any health issues? (I'd see the pediatrician about the wetting soon)
    Does she frustrate easily or do a slow boil?
    Any peculiar habits or rituals in regard to food, clothing, activities?
    Does she do well academically?
    Any friends yet?
    Also, are there any family members with mental illness, neurological problems or substance abuse problems?
    When did you first notice something wasn't right?

    Her motor deveolpment was slow walked at 16 months, crawled with a leg dragging cant hop skip or jump. Speech was normal, infact good known colours since 2 and is very good at identifying things. Great knowledge about animals (better than me lol) very interested in flowers etc.

    I have an appointment about the wetting in October, she did have bowel problems so was delayed in weaning from FF milk until age 3. All seems better now.

    She usually goes into instant rages when annoyed, usually by being asked to do something or becasuse she wants to do something unreasonable. First signs will be screaming I hate you or you stupid F@@cker.

    She has funny ways with food not so much about food but if she has a late breakfast she will watch the clock and still insist on lunch at 12pm even if there is no possible way she is hungry. If she has say 3 yoguarts before cereal for breakfast she will say that was a snack. Makes a huge mess when eating.

    Academically she is fine very bright.

    She often says others at nursery are her best friends but the teachers say she doesnt even play with them. She does not have one good friens she tends to play with everyone or on her own not in a group.

    Her imagenation is great and she loves her own company.

    First noticed what I called spoilt bratt behaviour when she turned 3 and since has got worse and worse. She is not spoilt and I am firm and concistant but she seems to be the only one that pushes those boundaries to the limit and past them on a daily basis.

    Hope I have been clear enough, I am clueless with this situation.

    Thanks for your help.
  4. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    Would you say she is rigid?
    Any grandiose thoughts about her abilities?
    Does she seem separate from the other kids (just keeps to herself) or is she locked into her own little world?
    I'd be concerned about her uneven development, especially dragging her leg (my Duckie still has trouble rolling over). How is her muscle tone?
  5. maisies_mummy

    maisies_mummy New Member

    Hi she does have an over confident way about herself, she is quite a show off and loves to be the centre of attention, sometimes blowing her own trumpet a bit too much. But she can be quite negative at other times, if she struggles to do anything she will just moan.

    she is very rigid mentally (take it you mean that) she wont compromise or make a deal.

    Maisie will run up to children excited to see them and if they ignore her it wont phase her she will just carry on chasing them and trying to talk which can be awkward at times and upsets me that she wont realise they are being horrible. I would say she keeps herself to herself although is not shy in anyway. She never gets embarrassed either even when she wets or throws a tantrum.

    I am concerned that she is very bright but so babyish in other ways, her speech is excellent and her range of words is wide.
  6. Mrs Smith

    Mrs Smith New Member

    She reminds me of my son at that age. Excellent vocabulary, good rote memory, socially awkward, rigid literal thinking, inflexible routines, toileting accidents, egocentric, tantrums.... Look into asperger's syndrome to see if you think it sounds like her.
  7. maisies_mummy

    maisies_mummy New Member

    hi I had a look at asperger's syndrome and maybe a couple of things sound like Maisie, she has excellent eye contact and if in battle with you would never look away first lol, but then alot of the examples you gave are spot on. This is all so confusing!! The same things with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) too. With ODD she has every single sympton but that is rarely on its own so think there is something more to this.

    An example of maisie last night I asked her to get me a nappy and baby wipes for the baby.

    Maisie NO!!
    Me I will do you a deal, you get the nappy and I get the selotape you want.
    MAisie OK!

    All was fine until I then added.

    Me: See that was nice we made a deal and did each other a favour.

    expecting her to be pleased she then moaned.

    I cant do any more favours!!! Ive done too many today!! (first thing she had been asked to do)

    She then looked as if I had totally tricked her and she was so disapointed with herself that she had done it!

    Also a lot of maisies funny ways about things change daily, one day you can cut her sandwich the next day she might refuse to eat it because its been cut. The same with a drink what glass it is in. Sometimes a tantrum about having a bath then a tantrum about getting out another day no tantrum.
  8. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    Hi and welcome! I saw your thread on the General Board as well and noticed that she had scored in the mild Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) range on the online Childbrain test. No online test is going to be a slam dunk but this is important information because that test isn't accurate for kids without early speech delays, which kids with Asperger's type of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) don't have. It would be good for you to print off a copy of that test for when you have the evaluation and request that assessing for these disorders be included in her evaluation.

    My experience has been that it's rare for a parent coming through here to look at any list of symptoms beyond ODD and see their child exactly. Sometimes the child doesn't hit all the symptoms on the list, sometimes they're atypical, sometimes the parents don't observe or miss some things. Some issues are simply much harder to evaluate on your own--for instance a child might show eye contact with family members or in a certain situation but avoids it with peers or other adults. This is all important information which usually takes some time--and often outside professional help--to determine.

    You should be able to avoid a lot of the problems you described such as the sandwich and the glass by involving her in the choice from the beginning instead of making the choice for her. I used to have to serve a glass of milk alongside a bowl of dry cereal so difficult child could decide whether to add it or not or I'd wind up with wet cereal poured onto the kitchen table in a rage. Ditto with syrup on pancakes. Involve her from the beginning with a series of questions. Ross Greene's book The Explosive Child will help you--it would be well worth ordering from amazon US if you can't get it there.
  9. maisies_mummy

    maisies_mummy New Member

    Thank you, you guys are great!

    Thank you for the link a lot of that sounds about right. In the UK we seem to be so behind with this imformation.

    I am very grateful for all the help I have been given on this site, it is a God send for me to of found it. I am sure most of you are aware that it is not easy to cope, and it seems babysitters are few and far between now :wink:

    Your signature sums me up exactly lol. I feel trapped in the home with still no control. I feel for my other children too, they get a lot less of my attention. I will push for the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) tests and will be open to any suggestions.

    I have a copy of the Explosive child, it is a great read and so helpful to me. Although I will say I do find it hard to keep my patience and ignore the bad behaviour. But even dealing just with the violence and meltdowns seems to be such hard work and sooooo time consuming.
  10. frustrated440

    frustrated440 New Member

    Hello, I am new to this site and I came across your reply and had some questions if you have the time. I have a 3 yr. 3 mo. old son. He hasn't started to ask "why" questions yet which I saw that you also mentioned in one of your responses to someone. So I guess I just wanted to know of anyone's experiences. I really don't have any answers for my son, everyone that I've taken him to says I really have to get him into preschool and see what happens. First I've had some questions about his speech. He is very verbal but does repeat sometimes. Like sometimes he will respond back to me with some of the words I used to talk to him. Also he can't answer all my questions like..."what did you do today?" or other open ended type questions. He is very loving, and loves to play with- his little brother and other children at school. He has just started to go to school but doesnt seem to get the whole concept of school. I think he thinks it is a play group situation which is all he knows. He has never been in a daycare and we have only left him with- my parents just once in awhile but hardly ever. At school he seems to seperate from me easily it's just that he wants to play and not do tasks asked of him or he won't see them through. He also doesnt want to sit at carpet for very long he would rather get into the new things he sees there. Other people I talk to say its normal for his age but the teacher today said that she had someone come in from the church office to help with- him because she can't give him her total attention. I dont expect her to, but my husband and I are sending him to school now so that he can be taught structure and get used to it. I am frustrated because I thought you send a child to preschool to learn this stuff but his teacher acts like he should already be able to do all of this. I also just learned that this is her 1st year teaching here. She is older and has a ed. degree but chose to stay home with- her children for awhile. He also has done some hand flapping, but that has gotten much better as I have realized that I should probably try to redirect him so he doesnt stand out amongst his peers. Other than that, he really is a good little boy. He has his moments but nothing that I ever thought was not normal for his age. He does like me to still do alot for him but I never realized how much I did too much for him until his brother came along. He has good imaginative play. Sometimes it does seem like his emotions could be inappropriate, but I am a very emotional person and so is my mom so I dont know if I should be worried because to me he just seems sensitive like us or could there be a problem? He also doesnt show much interest in learning how to pedal a bike. I'm just trying to think of all the concerns or worries I might have. I might have missed one...anything you can tell me about your experiences would be great and sorry this was sooo long. Thank you!