New Member very confused!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Confused, Apr 21, 2011.

  1. Confused

    Confused Guest

    Hello everyone,
    I have read some posts here and will be responding to lend an ear and praying for you all! Ok, here is my background that I will try to sum up. I am 33 years old and a mom of two. I had a miscarriage with my first son when I was three months along and had to bury him. So , I really say I have "3" :). So my daughter is 10 years old and my son just turned 5. My family is very religious so my grandfather suggested my daughter go to a private Catholic school since Pre-K, as well as my son. They have been spoiled by my grandfather and sometimes a little by myself and my father. Their father and I were never married and have been on and off ,up until the birth of our son. I have been around children and adults my whole life being my relitives,friends,military and the people my family worked with. Ok, now to the problem. My pregnancy with my son was rough and he was a month early, but was just over 6 pounds and went home the next day. He got up 4 times a night,went back to sleep rite away. He was wonderful until almost age two. He started getting more demanding and a little more tantrums. His speech was behind and started therapy.He also needed leg braces at age two for bowed legs which he got off at 3 years old. Potty trained during this year but also started not listening to us no matter how we tried to get him to do it.Games to pick up toys ,take medications,baths etc. He started throwing things,slamming/kicking doors,yelling,hitting us and his sister, and hitting his head once and a while on walls/doors. Age 4, he started back in Speech Thereapy, and started school all day. All year has done well at school but one time told the Principal not not look at him in a evil voice because he was mad. At home he has gotten worse,tantrums the same but more rage and violence. I now have holes in the walls cut and ripped down curtains,he colors on the walls,breaks cds,games,toys, still kicks walls/doors and hits head, has flipped over furnitre,bites his arms so hard he leaves bite marks and it bruises. Also has thrown stuff at the gerbil cage and went to push them off the table when he was mad. He doesnt care who he hurts and does not feel bad about it later.Tardy many days to school due to tantrums, runs in front of moving cars/parking lots/in stores. Lasts 30 minutes to 3 hours over anything. Not getting his way mainly.One day he was laughing,good mood and i was cleaning so I moved his cup over 2 inches and that set him off. Times he was happy I hug him or look at him and smile he gets mad. He now acts like this in front of his aunt who doesnt live with us and the last year or so acting like this in front of my friends and their children.I been asking for help for over a year and the Dr said discipline and gave me "tips" that didnt work. I finally got a Dr there to refer me to a Psychiatrist who we have seen 3 times.The first time he said Anxiety and possible ODD. Today he tested his "skills" and said he was bright... I knew that :) .. So he said "I beleive all thats wrong with him is social skills and you need to let him grow and I will finish up the report next week". I started to cry and told him he is socialized and "us let him grow up"? He has tiny tasks like pick up his toys( we help to) and i treat him as if he his a 5 year old,give him many independent task/games and so on as well as stuff to do with us. He knows the rules:no hitting/bitting breaking/throwing etc . I give timeouts ,take away toys ,privelages. When he is good I give him more appropriate privealges and things that he wants to do as well! So I do not know what to do, their father blames it all on me when he is not even a part time father. Sorry so long!Oh he just joined T-Ball mini Sports, we do go to Mc Donalds,PeterPiper,parks,plays with the kids on the block and so on!!! So, I just need someone that understands or even someone who wants to lend an ear! Thank you all.
  2. Jena

    Jena New Member

    Hi and welcome!!! you found a great place, alot of great people here!! sorry you needed us though......

    have you ever brought him in for a pyschiatric evaluation? has he ever seen a play therapist?? i know he's so young, yet the banging head thing and the tantrum I think it would be beneficial to sit down with someone explain the behaviors to them and have them speak with him.

    does he look at you when you speak to him? is he sensitive to light at all? How about playing with other kids? does he have friends, able to play with them not just next to them? how does he respond to schedule changes, or transitions from doing one thing to another?? Does he seem impatient if you promise something and you don't supply it right away, i mean really impatient??

    have you had his hearing checked? i'm sure you have?? just wondering.......... sorry so many questions......

    welcome again :) there will be others that will follow........
  3. Confused

    Confused Guest

    Hi Jena,
    Thank you for responding so quick! He has been seen 3 times in the last couple of months by this guy with a PHD and his specialties are family and marriage counseling,counseling. I thought/believe he is a psychiatrist,I have to find is card. They "played" with him just to see where he was with his motor skills and so on today.I have spoken to his Pediatrician over a year ago,said it was his speech and be consistent with discipline.The night clinic we have (took him twice for other reasons) said he's testing me,they cant help me and just "discipline properly" or said it couldn't be that bad!I again at his 5 year check up brought it up to another DR who works with his normal pediatrician, and got a referral. Now, I had a followup with his upper respiratory infection with the main Dr, who said sounds like bi-polar but he will go with the Dr. my son saw. My friends,family,one of my daughters friends have all talked to him about this. Told him it hurts him and us and its ok to get mad but not like that.Paint,draw,exercise,walk,sing,dance,play ooutside,etc to calm down.If he is in a good mood,most of the time he will look at us but seems very "annoyed" after a few and leaves,changes the subject or plays around. He is not sensitive to light and he plays with the kids at school,and here on the block.Schedule changes,(at home) he will get very angry when something was planned and we or someone else had to cancel. The snow storm we had he was actually ok with!It is very hard to get him up and ready in the morning.He wants to play or just sit there until he feels he wants to do it. (All day he can be like that too.)He had a T-ball practice this week and he had to be there at 6pm. Well he did not want to get ready until we were calling his coach and closing up the house-15 minutes before the practice and takes 10 minutes to drive there.He wanted T-ball, we did not force him in this.Yes!!! So impatient!!!! Today,he wanted outside, I said ok, I have to "powder my nose" (im saying that nicely here on the forum but said it where my son knew I had to "go") and we would go outside. He said no,now! I started to walk away and he was so so mad! He is so demanding he can go for hours or even days on wanting something,icecream,toys,watching T.V., being on the computer,going anywhere, and so on.He starts most of the fights with his sister as well. Yes his hearing is checked from his yearly checkups and also because of his Speech issue has gone twice and he has great hearing! His 2nd speech therapist said he can verbally express himself so she didn't understand why he would be so violent and hurt himself. His rages are just so bad, its like walking on ice waiting for it to crack and we fall in again! Don't get me wrong, he does have some good days and can be wonderful.He is smart, and im teaching him how to read. I am not saying Im perfect, but it just cant be all me!Don't be sorry about the questions, as you and everyone else here will find out, I love to talk "write" and will answer!
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Any psychiatric problems on either side of the genetic family tree? Any substance abuse? Any autistic spectrum disorders on either side of the family tree?
  5. Confused

    Confused Guest

    Hi MidwestMom,
    His fathers side is violent towards women but, Its "hearsay" and he denies it all. He has been arrested by two different women(ex-wives) for domestic violence but denies he hit them or threatened them. He never hit me but our relationship was not good. Our kids never saw any violence. My mother honestly had Schizophrenia but I do not see this in my son. I understand it can skip generations as my sister and I are fine." Usually" symptoms do not show up until late teens or older, and she was not violent. I use to drink but when I was" late"when I found out I was pregnant with my first child that I miscarrie,I stoppped. I drank again after,then 9 months later got pregnant with my now 10 year old and never drank again.So it has been over11 years since I drank, not even 1 beer! Their father drinks all the time but denies he has a problem. The other mother of his two other boys as well as I, went to court and put a order for him not to drink 12 hours before getting the kids as well as during. Autistic spectrum, not on either side. I'm just hearing that I need to let him grow, socialize him, discipline him harder! Its just getting worse, I do take some blame here,don't get me wrong.But if it is all my fault, then why is my daughter ok and not my son? My father is moving out due to the problems with my son, he is disabled and has heart trouble, he can not take anymore problems. My own sister/her husband can't handle him for long periods.My daughter gets little attention due to my sons issues and I know she feels hurt about that. The "counselor" we saw did not even want to see my son on tape that I had for a tantrum, he said" oh after i officially diagnose next week,you show me". Sorry so long, as I said, I talk alot! :)
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi and thanks for answering.

    Well, of course, nobody knows what it is wrong, but it's getting flag there.

    Even if your son never saw any violence or saw you drink, that isn't why I asked. Temperament is hereditary. People with substance abuse issues also have a higher rate of mood disorders; it is often why they drink. Since you have risk factors on your family tree, it is probably a good idea to evaluate him (I like NeuroPsychs) and monitor him. They don't get any easier when they become teenagers! It is best to do the best you can to avert problems when they are younger and we still have some control.

    I don't think it's you at all. I think it is the way he is wired...differently.

    Good luck!
  7. Confused

    Confused Guest

    Hi MidwestMom,
    Your Welcome! Yes, I agree, red flag, but according to the counselor (still trying to figure out if he is a Psychologist or Psychiatrist)he is bright,needs to socialize and let him him grow. I told him he was getting worse,he can see his bite marks/bruises up and down on his arm and I had video ,he didn't care.I cried and got a little upset and told him he doesn't live with him,he will blow in front of him but it takes a while for my son to be in a "comfort zone",he then said I needed to be seen and not my son! After a total of 3 long years, yes, I do cry and get a little upset! Oh, I have missed taking my daughter to and from school and activities due to my sons issues! That's interesting about Temperament being hereditary! I did not know that about mood disorders and substance abuse, thank you for telling me. :) My problem is getting my child's DR to send me to a neuropsychologist, he said he will base his decision on this "DR " we just saw! He just had another temper tantrum over his sister getting mad about a colorpage with glitterglue, he then smeared it on the trashcan,I said "no " you dont do that, that is for paper nothing else" he got mad and wiped it on the wall looked at me with an evil look,i tried to grab the paper,he went to kick me, I tapped him lightly on the bottom and he came behind me on hit my back and side.He also threw a box on the floor,slammed his door and bit himself yet again! Anyway, I will look into that today. Thank you so much.Oh, I do not believe in spanking but have in the past, he laughs or gets angrier and "spanks us back"( as he says) - does this to us anywhere, when we have only done this on his bottom,barely tapping him.
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    How persistent...hehe :)

    He isn't going to outgrow it (most likely) and it is silly for your son not to be getting help now (not to mention how much the rest of your family needs the respite). If this doctor refuses to refer you, maybe you should get a second opinion from a fresh perspective (a new doctor). Sounds pretty obvious that it would be very helpful for your son and the entire family if you had an idea of what is going on. Then you could adapt your parenting technique according to what would work. Many if not most of our kids do not respond to traditional parenting ideas. Often therapists are clueless about this and pretty much offer the same solutions to all kids...which makes US feel like failures when our kids don't respond. Been there/done that!

    Temperament is indeed inherited. If you've ever talked to adoptive parents (of which I am one) they will often swear that their child is far more like their birthparents than them, even if they never met their birthparents. Kids even seem to inherit certain's spooky. Also, in any infant nursery the day old infants have their own temperaments already. Some cry, some are quiet and contented, some look around with big eyes...there is no blank slate.

    I personally don't believe in spanking difficult child's. Like you saw, they don't respond to it usually and they don't need to see that we, the parents, hit when we are angry. Many of our kids already do that and need to see us as calm as possible. Of course, we do slip up.

    I wish you luck. Keep us posted.
  9. Confused

    Confused Guest

    Hi MidwestMom,
    I hope yours and everyone's day went well yesterday! As far as mine,my son had to trow 3 tantrums over different things!Then, my daughter thought it would be a good idea to join in! My son had a "checkup" for a health issue this morning and what does the Dr say? Oh, I have to read the report from the Dr he saw". I told him that he said hes bright,but basically needs to socialize and let him grow".The pediatrician just repeated himself. I said look,"he has started to push the gerbils cages off the tables,throws things at them,us,still bites,hits head and so on when hes mad. And, he can be happy, and move his cup over 2 inches and he blows,but I guess that's normal for a 5 year old and im wrong,sorry". He looked frusterated with me and said "if we have too, after I read the report and your still complaining come in". Well, I dont think I told you all here on the forum about the animal issue, theres just so much that has happened.He does this to the animals when hes angry, when happy hes very gentle. I just have it pounded in my head its All my fault let him grow and socialize. I gues theres nothing I can do until or if he ever blows at school. From what I have read, some kids do not ever blow at school,only at home,or both,or "mainly" at school,it verys. His pediatrician didnt seem to care when I mentioned the video of my sons rage. My friends daughter had trouble at home in the begining as well, and was almost 6/7 until she blew at school, Bipolar-Diagnosed at almost 6. Im not saying thats whats wrong with my boy, but ODD he has every single "symptom".Thats even what was brought up by the Psyc Dr., then he changes his mind because my son listened to him and didnt have a tantrum! Anyways, thank you again!
  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I think you need to find another doctor.

    Seriously, kids who are behind socially often stay that way. Sometimes it can be because they are on the autism spectrum, in which case t hey need interventions because they need help growing out of it. I would take him to a private neuropsychologist. Counselors, therapists, and even some clinical psychologists are not the best at diagnosing our kids. Without some sort of diagnosis, the poor kid can't get any help. The earlier a child gets interventions, the better the prognosis. motto is "Better to be safe than sorry."

    Good luck and keep us posted. Have a good day :)
  11. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Hi Confused, and welcome.
    Definitely, find another psychiatric. NOW. This one is blind, deaf and dumb.

    From your description, I can see a clear connection with-heredity on both sides. Your son has problems with-transitions, with-anger, and other issues. These are not going to go away. You and he are going to have to learn to work with-them and around them. In regard to discipline, I would change my definition of discipline as being "routine," and "regimine," as opposed to punishment, see the difference?
    Your son does not always know what he is doing is wrong. He just reacts. He is missing the piece of his brain that deals with-control and impulse control. So if your favorite TV show isn't on, for example, you will think, oh, darn, and do something else. He, on the other hand, will explode. It's like the end of the world do him.

    One thing would suggest is to talk through things, such as when you are going to move his cup while you are cleaning, tell him before you even begin to clean that you are going to be moving things around, making noise, and getting into his space, and he will need to be patient. Prepare him for what is to come so it doesn't blindside him. He doesn't pick up on the social cues that the rest of us get and he doesn't react appropriately, so you have to spell it out to him. IOW, if you are vacuuming, rearranging chairs, it would not come as a surprise to most of us if you got to our section of the room and started vacuuming under our legs, but with-him, he does not expect it and will explode.

    I hope that helps.

    I repeat: find another doctor.
  12. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Just wanted to clarify, I have no idea if he's missing a part of his brain. I was just trying to explain that something is missing, LOL!
  13. Confused

    Confused Guest

    Hi MidwestMom,
    My son is usually outgoing and talkative to kids and adults. He was great when he started school,talking to his new teacher, the maintenance man, it took him only less than a week to open up. Sometimes he gets shy around a lot of people but eventually opens up later that day. I personally don't see a problem with that even though that "Dr" said there was. Now my daughter is 10 years old, and since I was pregnant with my son, just got quit. She barely talks at school to the adults,but does so when spoken to or needing help.Yet at home, and with kids she is great! The last week he has had several tantrums but not "rages" and still bites himself,kicks walls,slams door,constant argue but I believe its only "better" because my dad and I have been letting him "run" the house. We try to say "no" and he got mad, we gave in just so we didn't hear it.Thats bad and wrong, I know! I have to wait until he gets bad at school as well for "proof" of his issues. :( Thanks!
  14. Confused

    Confused Guest

    Hi TerryJ2,
    As the Dr said, its at home because at school no problems. As I told MidwestMom, the last week ,yes, we are wrong,gave in so we didn't have to hear it. Everyday all day we are outside,even in heavy winds,he eats and gets what he wants,argues about him watching tv and not anyone else, basically its all about him! I have found myself,father and grandfather giving in so it stops or slows. Ice cream truck he has to have it or he blows, or if it doesnt come by, he says" im waiting outside until it comes,not going in to bed". Yes, your right about the Telivision show, he has blown! Not all time tho, there are times he is ok with it. Thats a good idea about talking through things. Explain before and during. You made me think of another issue with him. For the last couple of years he would get mad if we put away or thru out his food, even if he said he was done. So we make him take care of his food, if he doesnt it will sit there for a day or two and finally when he decides its trash, he will toss it! Wow, its as if you live here! Thanks! (I understand what you meant about the brain lol!)
  15. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Hello Confused!
    Your son reminds me of mine in some ways - the absolute insistence on getting his own way, for example... Most of the time what happens is that my son will just do what he wants to do; he does not have the reflex to ask me if he is allowed to do whatever it is. For example, we live at the top of a rural village where no cars come - it is therefore safe for him to play outside, away from where I can see him; however, I need to know when he is going... Often he will have just "disappeared", without asking me if he can go... What I see with him is that he is not actually being naughty with this (though of course I do get cross with him when he does it). It is as though he simply does not "get it" that he has to ask and no matter how many times I tell him, he mainly forgets. Very occasionally he does remember, and that is like a small victory :)
    So the same with your son. I am sure he is not actually being wilful in the accepted sense - there is something going on for him neurologically, in all probability, that makes him behave like this. So you have to forget about most of the usual discipline techniques and institute other ways of being with him. Some good advice has been given here. I find explaining things DOES work well with my son, despite his young age. I have been trying not to give him food with additives and to cut down on his sugar intake as much as possible because I am sure these things make him worse (he gets really hyper when he has a lot of sugar, that is for sure). When he wants something that is not "good" for him, I explain this to him kindly and gently and - believe it or not - he accepts it! What seems to set him off a lot of the time is firm commands, a certain tone of voice that one might be able to use with other children - he will not accept to be "bossed around". I am sure it is the same with your boy. So one has to proceed by other means - "Softly, softly, catchee monkee!" I have found, as has been said, that reward and encoragement work FAR better than punishment and scolding. We have a gold chart system that actually works quite well and my son definitely cares about earning his stars and is proud of them... I try to praise him as much as possible. He is very responsive to affection and is very affectionate himself - I have read that this is typical of ADHD children...
    You really do need to get a second opinion in terms of his evaluation, as everyone else has said... I'm afraid it is extremely unlikely he is going to grow out of it. People have been telling me that about my son for literally years and, although in some ways he is calmer and more amenable to reason, mostly speaking the "issues" of the 2 year old he was continue - the tantrums when he doesn't get his way, the excessive and constant physical movement, desire to touch everyone and everything, etc...
    Good luck. It is so hard, I know, but there are ways round and through...
  16. rlsnights

    rlsnights New Member

    I do not care what the "professional" you are seeing says. The behavior you are describing, particularly the self-harm, are NOT normal behavior for a 5 year old.

    Could his speech problems be part of what's happening? Yes of course. When you can't communicate effectively - no matter how old you are - you get terribly frustrated. I can see a 5 year old getting really mad because of this = but again your description doesn't seem to fit this well.

    If you have the ability to take a video of him during one of his explosions I would do this and take it to the "psychiatric" you have seen. This person needs a reality check. You can also take pictures of the holes in the wall and the bruises.

    In fact I would do this for your own protection. If he seriously hurts himself - concussion or breaks a bone - you could easily be charged with child abuse. And the next time he bruises himself by biting himself or if he seems at all hurt by his own actions - I would take him to the pediatrician that day and have them document the injuries and the cause. Maybe the pediatrician will pay attention then. If you can make the video of your son going from fine to raging/banging head/etc. then I would show that to the peds too and repeat your request for help for your son.

    Could your father go to the psychiatric appointment with you? Having a second source of info from an adult male - assuming you father will be honest and not "soften" what he says - should stop the psychiatric from dismissing your reports as exaggerations or bad parenting.

    If this psychiatric still insists your son is only experiencing delays that are within normal limits, you need to find someone else. Preferably a neuropsychologist to do a comprehensive evaluation. This can be expensive - up to $3,000 - and time consuming since it usually involves 10+ hours of assessment. If you don't have this $$ you can try to get it paid for by your health insurance. You will almost certainly need your pediatrician to refer you.

    In the meantime, get a copy of Ross Greene's The Explosive Child. I think you will find it helpful in the sense that it will give you a different way of thinking about you son's behavior and your response. He describes how to use some tools that may be new to you. Most libraries have it and you can easily get it online in digital format or by mail order.

    Do not give in to him if at all possible. It will set you all up for worse problems.

    However - safety is always the bottom line. If you have to give in temporarily in order to keep him or someone else in the house safe then you will have to do that. But only then should he "win". But...

    If you feel he is a danger to himself or to others I suggest you take him to ER and tell them you want him assessed for psychiatric hospitalization. If he is being too violent to transport then call the police or for an ambulance and tell them you have a child who is hurting himself/others and you need help transporting him to ER.

    In my humble opinion, a child who is beating his head against a wall and biting himself to the point of bruises during a rage is clearly a child who is in significant physical and emotional distress. This is not a manipulation. It is a call for help.


  17. jmsali09

    jmsali09 New Member

    Hi Confused:

    I'm new and glad you shared too. I came from extended/married into family hyper religous...that does not help..I say go with your gut...I "knew" my current nine year old had issues probably as early as 3 or 4 but no one really wants to "label" then...If you have that "sense" something is off, it probably is. It took me a while to get the help and assessments for difficult child and I found resources through CHADD site--went to my state and they listed places that did the psychiatric/psychological evaluations that you need. I am taking my daughter to the U fo M and bypassing "family doctors" overall...I went to a Pediatrician in the fall who was suppossed to be a "specialist" in ADHD, etc. and she was like, "oh, she just needs to do some deep breathing before bed"! End of story there...I called 9 months later and they were like " um, yeah, send us some of the forms again and if we think there is a problem we will call you"....Not!!! so, I went off to find my own help. sometimes it is just you against "the world" but hang in there and trust yourself...If you feel that you are being patronized, probably are...I've learned the hard way, but then I just keep searching until someone listens..

    Looking forward to your posts and progress,
  18. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I'd say beating your head against the wall and biting oneself is a step beyond ADHD too. I've know many ADHD kids (my five kids have brought home tons of kids), but they don't do that. That is something above that in my opinion. Take him to a neuropsychologist.
  19. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Yes, my son has (very probably) ADHD and doesn't bang his head against walls or bite himself. He does get very frustrated in other ways (mainly verbally) and that is of course part of the ADHD territory...
  20. Confused

    Confused Guest

    Hi Malika,
    Yes, I do agree! On going outside,he is 5, and whether or not he was perfectly well behaved or these issues, I feel he is to young to be outside in the front and going up and down the block by himself.My grandfather said he is old enough to to do so, but we also have a registered sex offender who lives a few blocks over! Otherwise my block,I know all the neighbors, are wonderful people. As far as him feeling "bossed around",yup! Even just last night I told him in a nice soft voice, ok, we will wash your hair and body in the morning before school, and made sure he understood that, he said ok( he refused the bedtime bath). So this morning, he argued and had a fit when I wanted to clean him,told him to then nicely and he got out of the tub,without doing so. Sometimes it works,sometimes it doesnt as you say! He has been in his mood this week. Good luck with you son !